View Full Version : The FOFC cyberdunk team
rjolley
02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
is the managersim.com site down?
is the managersim.com site down?
No, but you are missing the last s, here is the link:
http://www.managersims.com/cyberdunk/
rjolley
02-22-2008, 11:37 AM
Ah, thanks. Page updated.
damnMikeBrown
02-23-2008, 12:44 AM
Are we bugged? Our team hasn't gained any supporters all season. With the betting change in, we need to make some solid $$ on home games so that we can up the salaries. Can't do that if our supporters never increase. I smell a bug.
Oh, and the new betting is miserable. At some point this season, probably sooner rather than later(after the suspected bug is examined), I think we'll have to examine salaries just to continue training at a high level.
I dont' know about the supporters thing, will do a search, but what i can say is that we are making tons of money, $2.5M already in 6 home games or so, so probably i can raise everybody salaries.
daedalus
02-24-2008, 05:19 AM
jeeb . . . i just started a power forward, if you are looking for one. have not drafted myself onto a team yet in case you are interested.
http://www.cyberdunk.com/player.php?id=835335&n=Oleg%20Kulcyanov
Travis
02-26-2008, 02:17 PM
Great job so far this season Icy. Only a game out of 1st twelve games in is pretty damn sweet.
Yeah we are in the top 3 after today's win, and with chances to promote to the English top division. Let's keep fighting guys!
We have 2 games in 3 days vs. Dundee Jaguars. If you're wondering who your pass targets should be, here are the combined field goal percentages from the last time we played them for the different positions.:
PF/C
1/33
SG/PG/SF
49/64
BreizhManu
02-27-2008, 12:33 PM
moved myself to special team player and passing to PF only 5%
Yeah we are way better with our small men.
moved myself to special team player and passing to PF only 5%
I have done the same, please all you, set the passing to C and PF to only 5%, the rest to PG, SG and SF as they are who will score for us in today's game.
rjolley
02-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Set mine to 35 PG-30 SG-30 SF-5 C
damnMikeBrown
02-27-2008, 02:02 PM
Cool..I love to score!
Cheesehead Craig
02-27-2008, 03:07 PM
Well, here's my sorry excuse for a player (PF). He's only a week old and still has the afterbirth on him.
http://www.cyberdunk.com/player.php?id=842643&n
Travis
02-29-2008, 02:38 PM
So I wonder how the manager for the Jaguars is feeling.
First meeting we win 135-126.
Last two meetings we sweep by a combined score of 315-87.
Granted, only 1 of those last 2 meetings was in league play, but we account for half their league losses so far this season. So much for trying to rely on two uber players.
damnMikeBrown
03-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Looks like our team's lineup page has been altered. I know we were playing players out of position (not badly out of position), now we're all set to our actual positions. Will this prevent us from running our preferred lineups?
Looks like our team's lineup page has been altered. I know we were playing players out of position (not badly out of position), now we're all set to our actual positions. Will this prevent us from running our preferred lineups?
Which changes do you mean?
Btw, we need to change our passing targets for today game as they haev good outside players adn worse PF and C so set it like:
Passing Preferences: Our best best scorers (PG, PF and C) will receive most of the load.
For the PG's set it to:
C=40%
PF=40%
SF=10%
SG=10%
For the SG's set it to:
C=35%
PF=35%
SF=10%
PG=20%
For the SF's set it to:
C=35%
PF=35%
SG=10%
PG=20%
For the PF's set it to:
C=40%
SF=15%
SG=15%
PG=30%
For the C's set it to:
PF=40%
SF=15%
SG=15%
PG=30%
damnMikeBrown
03-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Which changes do you mean?
If you go the London FOFC Ballers page on cyberdunk, it used to be when you clicked on our team, that we (the players) were slotted differently. Jordanov was a PG (natural position was SG), one of our C's is actually a natural PF, a natural PG was our starting SG..etc.
If you look at the page now, all the players are listed by their natural positions, not in the way that they were slotted previously.
If you go the London FOFC Ballers page on cyberdunk, it used to be when you clicked on our team, that we (the players) were slotted differently. Jordanov was a PG (natural position was SG), one of our C's is actually a natural PF, a natural PG was our starting SG..etc.
If you look at the page now, all the players are listed by their natural positions, not in the way that they were slotted previously.
Ah ok, i see what you mean, i was looknig at my manager screen and there i see all the players in the positions i have them, nto the natural ones so unless they change that too, by now we can still keep playing Jeeber at C and Jordanov at PG.
Btw guys, how are you money wise? we are making $1M per home game now so i can send you money if you need it, like a $200k bonus per player. It will be $2M that is nothing for the current team finances (we have $11M).
rjolley
03-01-2008, 01:22 PM
I'm at $1.4M, so doing ok. I can always send it over to my second player, though. :)
Travis
03-03-2008, 10:59 AM
Well gents, enjoy today's game, because after this we're definitely into the meat of the league schedule. Talk about a string of games that will really show us where we stand against other active owners/players.
damnMikeBrown
03-03-2008, 11:29 AM
My training is going to slow waaay down from here on out. Just makes it less fun, not improving all the time. Doing the blocks of +10pt 8day trainings. Going to be a slow rest of the season.
My training is going to slow waaay down from here on out. Just makes it less fun, not improving all the time. Doing the blocks of +10pt 8day trainings. Going to be a slow rest of the season.
Yeah, i had to start to do those trainings too as i'm over 60 in my important ratings.
Ragone
03-04-2008, 05:20 AM
I thought it was funny looking at the leading scorer in div 2 page..
i was in the top 20 with 3-4 hours less playing time then anyone else heh..
also i'm shooting something like 75% for the season from the floor :P
I thought it was funny looking at the leading scorer in div 2 page..
i was in the top 20 with 3-4 hours less playing time then anyone else heh..
also i'm shooting something like 75% for the season from the floor :P
Yeah, we have aso Travis and DanMikeB in the top 10 in assists and steals, whith way lower pt than the other guys. That is the only problem of running thi steam in a "communist" way with all the players having equal pt, it's hard to climb the leading tables.
Btw, Ragone, you need to train stamina more, you player seems to be the only in the team unable to play 2 full Q when i have you set to do it.
Huge win yesterday!! they had some players in the 50's but i saw that their SF was the weak player and set our SF's to be the scorers and our SF Snow won this game for us!
Ragone
03-06-2008, 03:59 AM
Thats odd.. according to the player page.. i have the 2nd highest stamina on team.. i had already went in for more stamina training before the reply anyway.. so no biggy :)
Nice going Icy, I thought we were gonna get killed.
Another huge win, and we are tied for second now!
and our toughest game of the season coming up today.
Travis
03-07-2008, 11:38 AM
Not sure what Icy has in mind, but I've set my passing heavily (80%) to our PF's hoping that we can negate their rating advantage at that position by just wearing their starter down. Kept my player type on special teams as that seems to keep my guy from taking low percentage shots and has gotten him to the line fairly often. So fingers crossed.
We have not a lot to do but to try to get advantage of our deeper bench, their starters are better than us.
We lost as expected, they were way better than us.
We face another good team today, but they have no PF so set up a 60% of the passes to our PF. Btw, remember to always play "hard" as we have a deep bench so we can afford it.
Good news too, as we haev already 14m in the bank adn we are making 1M every home game, i have decided to offer all you a new contract and bonuses acording to our category.
30k per day and a 100k signing bonus, with 10k for league win and 20k for international win. Go to your offers page and sign it. It should help our trainign now that betting is a bit less easy.
Travis
03-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Just tried to sign the contract, not sure if it took or not, got an error message after trying to sign. I'll check tomorrow and see if the rates have changed or not.
rjolley
03-08-2008, 11:59 AM
Signed the contract successfully.
Travis, click on Current Contract on the Contract screen. It'll show you which one you're playing on.
Just tried to sign the contract, not sure if it took or not, got an error message after trying to sign. I'll check tomorrow and see if the rates have changed or not.
I had the error too when signing mine, but it was signed besides the error.
Dola, just checked and yours is signed correctly Travis, also rjolley, manu and jeebers.
Heck of a win, we beat the #5 team in the English Premier. Now we've got a match vs. that team with a crappy SF and then two very tough ones vs. London Towers.
damnMikeBrown
03-08-2008, 04:44 PM
I was notified of the contract, but when I went to accept, it was no longer available.
I was notified of the contract, but when I went to accept, it was no longer available.
It says that when you accept it, i guess it's a bug, but the contract is signed despite the error.
damnMikeBrown
03-08-2008, 05:37 PM
I see that...very odd. Put it on their list I suppose of goofy things going on with the game.
Thanks for the raise though. The betting is to the point that it is not reliable for income. Make a few long shots, about half pay off, end up making maybe 50k on 35k. Not enough to train on long term.
Travis
03-10-2008, 02:01 PM
Hey Icy, what spots were Jordanov, Man, Mighty and Snow playing today (just curious if any were out of position)? Looks like those 4 easily had the most shooting success today so just want to try and make sure I have my passing set to hopefully take more advantage of them tomorrow.
Funny, I just did the same thing and changed all my passing to the SG to take advantage of them for tomorrow and hopefully pull out an upset.
Travis
03-10-2008, 03:42 PM
Funny, I just did the same thing and changed all my passing to the SG to take advantage of them for tomorrow and hopefully pull out an upset.
I'm thinking the same thing. Had my passing split between SG and C today. Still worked okay and we gave them a run, be nice if we could at the very least close the gap some tomorrow though.
I think you (Jace) are the best passer on the team, wonder if we could go with a small lineup to take advantage of our shooters, let Jordanov, Man, and Mighty share all the time at PG/SG, stick Jace at PF and other good passer(s) at C and maybe SF, and then focus our passes to PG/SG to let them rack up the shots.
For what it's worth, Snow was at 89% stamina before the game, now at 94% despite playing 36 mins. Their SF's aren't great defenders, but they are insane offensively (one guy is a 44 with 10 stars in offense).
damnMikeBrown
03-12-2008, 12:11 AM
I hate the way they keep stats. When we're fouled on a shot attempt, it records it as a missed shot. The most recent game I was a horrible 2/8 from the floor and 3/8 from behind the arc. Foul shots were 8/8...
4 shooting fouls, take those from that 2/8 and that looks like a more realistic 2/4 from the floor. I don't like that drawing fouls makes you look like a scrub shooter. . .
damnMikeBrown
03-21-2008, 12:35 PM
There's a football (american) game that is imitating CyberDunk
http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=389972
Played one day so far. It looks very similar.
rjolley
03-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Pretty kool. Signed up as LB Sam Jolley for the Utrecht Extreme. Still deciding if I want to create another player or level up my LB...
damnMikeBrown
03-21-2008, 02:08 PM
The game actually plays out as well I think. You see x's and o's moving about..at least I saw a highlight of that happening.
I made a speed back.
rjolley
03-21-2008, 02:39 PM
If I get some more points, I plan on making an offensive player...if I hang around the game that long.
Ragone
03-21-2008, 09:17 PM
I made A Speed Wr
BreizhManu
03-28-2008, 09:37 AM
Created QB Manuel Martin currently signed with the Auckland Panthers in Oceania
rjolley
03-28-2008, 10:44 AM
So, is the CyberDunk team still functional, or are we on autopilot?
Travis
03-28-2008, 11:15 AM
So, is the CyberDunk team still functional, or are we on autopilot?
I'm still active. Pretty much just setting my passing tendencies based on likely matchups and continuing to train.
I'm still active. Pretty much just setting my passing tendencies based on likely matchups and continuing to train.
+1, and training. Our team is kind of in an unfortunate spot. Either we're so good that there's no planning needed to win or the other team is so good that there's no planning we can do to win. There are very few games that could actually go either way, which is what really kills things for Cyberdunk.
rjolley
03-28-2008, 01:24 PM
Ok, just checking.
Also, the managersims.com site is missing some of the equipment. I purchased the Christmas T-Shirt, but it's not available in the drop-down.
daedalus
03-29-2008, 02:27 AM
still active and training as well.
my 2nd player is stuck on a team that was computer but became bought by a human and is no longer playing. oh, well. he can still train . . . and leave this damn team when the contract is up. :D
JeeberD
03-29-2008, 05:46 AM
Still active as well, both as player and coach...
BreizhManu
03-29-2008, 06:16 AM
still active
thealmighty
03-29-2008, 10:58 AM
still going.
Hey Jeebs, is there a site for our jv team like the managersim/cyberdunk site for the original team (cuz if there is I have not ever updated Green Teeeeee's stats there)?
JeeberD
03-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Icy said he was going to make one for me, but I don't think he ever got around to it. Of course, he asked me for a team logo and I never got him one, so it might be my fault...
damnMikeBrown
03-30-2008, 12:28 AM
Still active and training as well. I set passing based on the strengths of our opponents. It is just slow going now because the training times are all 7+ days now.
I'm active but as Jag said, there is not much to do as coach. We are either too good or too bad so we are stuck in our current position. Also the coach options in this game are too limited, i can only set who is the starter and backup and who will be the leader in each Q. Nothing else, so you are doing well just changing the passing options before each game to exploit the other teams worst players.
I hope things will get better in the next season, we should be able to fight for promotion and hopefully will be more strategic options.
About the football game, i have created 4 players and own one team, and i'm likign it a lot, the coach strategies are way more deep and you can really affect the games outcome.
Btw if any of you is looking for a team let me know and i'll hook you in, i need a good DT,WR and FB.
BreizhManu
04-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Ping Jeeber, Since you're way better than me on the offensive side, I was thinking focusing more on the defensive side of things : Jumping + Strenght + Rebound + Blocking and that's it.So you could concentrate only on the offensive.
JeeberD
04-08-2008, 04:14 PM
That works for me. Offense is more fun, anyways... :)
damnMikeBrown
04-09-2008, 12:44 PM
It looks like we've got a great shot of promoting this year...the team in 3rd place is stripped of players & cash. I looked at their upcoming schedule and they've got 3 games against human teams that look like sure losses... If they loose 3, and we win out, we'd be in 3rd place!
We're movin on up!
Yeah saw it, they have only level 17 players now, if they lose the 3 games, we will be promoted to the top division!! i hope so as thi sseason has been a bit boring with us beating all the teams but the top 3.
Cheesehead Craig
04-11-2008, 09:34 PM
Icy, you don't happen to own the Toledo Swords do you? I'm the Tottenham Trolls owner.
Icy, you don't happen to own the Toledo Swords do you? I'm the Tottenham Trolls owner.
Yeah i do, will be a good rivalry :)
JeeberD
04-12-2008, 06:23 PM
Looks like the Rectal Trout have an outside shot at getting promoted as well. After a VERY rough start to the season, we're now two games out of third, and both the third and fourth place teams are CPU teams. If we win out (there's only one game where we might have trouble) and the other teams stay true to form, we just might sneak in...
Cheesehead Craig
04-12-2008, 08:41 PM
Go Trout!!!
JeeberD
04-15-2008, 03:39 PM
The Ballers are back in third... :)
damnMikeBrown
04-18-2008, 11:45 PM
That is all she wrote...we're promoting!
That is all she wrote...we're promoting!
Yeah! we are going to be int he 1st division next season wooot!!
I have been taking a look at the test server to see the changes they are adding for next season and i'm happy to say that there is going to be way more tactical options both for each player and for the team, also an option for the players to accept coach tactics suggestions.
I hope all those changes will make us more active here again, this season has been a bit boring with no other teams besides the top two being able to beat us, and not having almost tactical options to tweak either.
rjolley
04-19-2008, 10:37 AM
Can anyone get on the test server, or just owners?
Can anyone get on the test server, or just owners?
Anyone.
JeeberD
04-20-2008, 05:18 AM
After yesterday's win, the Rectal Trout are also in third and expecting to promote. Just two games left and we should win them easily.
damnMikeBrown
04-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Woot! Won the Tel Aviv 1-on-1 tournament! That was a 500k purse! Now if the money was actually good for anything. . .
JeeberD
04-24-2008, 05:35 PM
The sites undergoing a major facelift. I was lost for a moment when I logged on this afternoon...
Travis
04-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Not only that, but they're working on a hockey version of the game.
I resisted the football game that was linked on here earlier, but might have a hard time not getting in on the hockey one from day one.
JeeberD
04-28-2008, 05:28 AM
Day 1 of the season is today, and it looks like games begin on Wednesday...
This looks to be a much more challenging season.
rjolley
04-28-2008, 09:14 AM
Just added my 3rd player, a PG in Bulgaria.
Seems they're allowing a new player every season as a bonus. It's been fun having my SG dominate as a pure 3pt shooter. Just need to get him on a squad with a better contract.
Also, looks like they've updated the tactics screen. Everyone should take a look, as they've also reset them.
damnMikeBrown
04-28-2008, 09:59 AM
Um..wow..don't know if it is a bug or something, but my SG is now on the USA National Team.
JeeberD
04-29-2008, 09:23 AM
The Rectal Trout could use a backup SF, if anyone has one available...
damnMikeBrown
04-30-2008, 06:19 AM
Game coming up here very soon. Tactics are completely different. If you haven't already, you need to go in and set your tactics for the new games.
Yes please set your team tactics. Today's game is almost a secure loss as they are too good, but from now we will start to discuss tactics again etc, so please update your managersims team page with your player's ratings.
Btw, i see we have now a private forum at the site, maybe we should discuss tactics etc there?
JeeberD
04-30-2008, 09:00 AM
I also noticed that the team owner can recommend tactics for individual players, and that the individual players can set it up so that they automatically accept the owners recommendations...
BreizhManu
04-30-2008, 09:18 AM
Yes please set your team tactics. Today's game is almost a secure loss as they are too good, but from now we will start to discuss tactics again etc, so please update your managersims team page with your player's ratings.
Btw, i see we have now a private forum at the site, maybe we should discuss tactics etc there?
btw I sent you a while back a PM with my custom equipment for managersims (rest of the player is up to date)
rjolley
04-30-2008, 09:56 AM
Also, the Christmas T-Shirt under clothing is not on your list. It's +5 Stamina, +10 Confidence, +10 Speed.
Travis
04-30-2008, 10:31 AM
Personally I'd vote for discussing tactics here. I know I check this forum a lot more than that one and it's easier to hide at work with the available schemes ;)
JeeberD
05-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Welcome to the Premier League, FOFC Ballers.
Ouch...
daedalus
05-04-2008, 12:10 AM
wtf? my tactics got borked when the interface changed. i did not know that.
damnMikeBrown
05-04-2008, 10:32 AM
Game coming up here very soon. Tactics are completely different. If you haven't already, you need to go in and set your tactics for the new games. I should've been clearer. Yeah, everything was a mess. Actually took me multiple tries to actually -set- my tactics. The button to do it didn't look like the one I should have been using.
daedalus
05-04-2008, 11:58 AM
I should've been clearer. Yeah, everything was a mess. Actually took me multiple tries to actually -set- my tactics. The button to do it didn't look like the one I should have been using.my bad. i thought you were referring to the fact that our team tactics will now be different since the promotion.
that interface design is more borked than . . . than . . . fuck, i'll come up with something. oh, macromedia's . . . where 'removing frame' is under 'insert' or some such (off memory).
daedalus
05-07-2008, 03:05 AM
The Rectal Trout could use a backup SF, if anyone has one available...no SF but a defensive-type PF, if you ever end up needing one.
Travis
05-10-2008, 12:49 PM
Heh, I wasn't paying attention to it, but Steve Hunter's contract with the Trout just ran out, any chance of getting back in?
JeeberD
05-11-2008, 05:35 AM
Done, sorry about that...
A bunch of renewal offers went out. So if you're on the Rectal Trout, check your inbox...
JeeberD
05-11-2008, 05:36 AM
no SF but a defensive-type PF, if you ever end up needing one.
I may wind up needing one soon...one of our guys has become pretty inactive.
Travis
05-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Done, sorry about that...
A bunch of renewal offers went out. So if you're on the Rectal Trout, check your inbox...
Thanks, back in now.
Travis, as team starting PG and higher level player, do you want to take over the team as owner/coach? i'm way more focused on goallineblitz than in cyberdunk so probably any of you would do a better job than me running the team.
Not sure if we can do it on any way, or if we can change officially team ownership, else i guess i can give out my user/pass.
Travis
05-11-2008, 01:11 PM
Travis, as team starting PG and higher level player, do you want to take over the team as owner/coach? i'm way more focused on goallineblitz than in cyberdunk so probably any of you would do a better job than me running the team.
Not sure if we can do it on any way, or if we can change officially team ownership, else i guess i can give out my user/pass.
Thanks, but I really can't, at least not for the next couple months. Work is just crazy over the summer so I wouldn't be able to keep up with things well enough.
Cheesehead Craig
05-11-2008, 10:49 PM
I may wind up needing one soon...one of our guys has become pretty inactive.
I'm assuming you mean me, Rufus Xavier. I've been active almost everyday and been training. If you mean inactive that I haven't been posting here, there really isn't a whole lot of chit chat about the team and there's no team forum that I can find.
I guess we'll just go our separate ways as it sounds like you don't need my player.
JeeberD
05-13-2008, 07:16 AM
I wasn't talking about you, Cheesehead... :)
JeeberD
05-13-2008, 07:21 AM
Dola-
And in fact, we now have an opening, daed. What's your guys name? I'll look him up and see if I can get him on the team...
Cheesehead Craig
05-13-2008, 01:48 PM
I wasn't talking about you, Cheesehead... :)
Sorry, Daedalus was talking that he had a PF and you just re-signed Steve Hunter. Figured I was the guy who was out.
I may leave the team anyway when my contract runs out in 2 weeks. I think I want my guy to get more PT and that simply won't happen with the Trout. The game kinda loses it's fun when one only gets 12 minutes/game. I certainly realize that Hunter is a superior player and not griping about losing time to him. It's just time to see what my guy can do on some lower level team and be a starter.
daedalus
05-14-2008, 01:47 AM
Oleg Kulcyanov, Florida Pistons - Swedish Premier.
contract should end day 29 of this season.
daedalus
05-30-2008, 02:46 AM
if you are still interested, jeeb, oleg is out of contract. if not, let me know, and i shall draft myself onto a team.
JeeberD
05-30-2008, 05:17 AM
I'll send you a contract, daed...
BreizhManu
06-13-2008, 02:16 PM
WTF happened ? looks like we changed owner.
We now got a bunch of new players.
I myself received 3 contract offers.
And last game was weird with only me and Jace from the original team playing (good for me but still) :
http://www.cyberdunk.com/team.php?m=match&id=2780957
The other starters are players from the new owner.
JeeberD
06-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Yeah, just noticed this. Guess Icy got booted for inactivity?
Travis
06-13-2008, 05:49 PM
Not sure what's going on, just saw on there then came here to see what was what. I'm still kind of on cruise control (setting tactics, doing training) and am willing to continue playing for a FOFC team, but really don't want to run one myself. Anybody thinking of taking up a team?
rjolley
06-13-2008, 08:45 PM
I'm in the same position...training my player but don't really want to run a team.
thealmighty
06-13-2008, 11:39 PM
Should we take one of these offers? I have several that are pretty good (one is Manchester Sound from our own league- some of you have one from them too?)?
BreizhManu
06-14-2008, 04:32 AM
got one from manchester too, else i've got a team since last season :
http://www.cyberdunk.com/team.php?m=team&id=10475
But i find it borring to manage
JeeberD
06-14-2008, 05:27 AM
Yeah, Manchester sent me an offer as well. I'm thinking about signing Jeeber to the Rectal Trout, though...
Ragone
06-14-2008, 06:48 PM
and poor mikheal jordanov gets 0 minutes per game now.. wee
Sorry guys, it seems that my purchased period for the team ran over while i was away (have been a week away). I was not really paying attention to it anyway, i offered here the team to somebody else some time ago but nobody wanted it. I just lost the interest on the game as there was nothing to do besides training, tactics meant nothing, the team with the best players wins, so it became boring for me, we were either winning by a big margin or losing, but without any of us doing anything.
I guess i'll just retire my players or maybe i'll try to be just a player instead of owner.
GLB on the other hand has me really addicted as there are way more things to do both as owner and as player.
Thanks for your time as players for the FOFC Ballers, it was fun at first at least.
thealmighty
06-21-2008, 07:23 PM
I moved to Farho Gijon in Spain 10. I am the highest rated player so I should get plenty of time.
The owner (widowmaker) e-mailed me he is looking for 50+ players if anyone is interested- though he speaks very poor English so his messages to me are an adventure to figure out.
The team should be promoting.
BreizhManu
06-22-2008, 05:07 AM
i'm staying with the ballers right now since i'm a starter with plenty of playing time
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