Passes defended: QB or DB?

[Mike Lowe]

Is this the DB making a nice play, the QB not making the best throw (although still not a "bad" throw) or a combination of both?

I have a QB who is getting a lot of passes defended and I'm not sure if it's a handful of good defenses we've come across or what.

Thanks!

[QuikSand]

I don't have an answer to your main question (not sure if anyone does, really) but I would offer that another possible candidate here is a too-familiar offensive gameplan. When the defense becomes familiar with your offense, the incomplete passes still get classified in one of the several areas (there's no such thing in FOF as an incomplete pass without a reason for it being so). So, a familiar defense later in the game will result in a lot more hurries, passes defensed, and the like. if your QB knows too few formations, for instance, it might be causing too many familiar passes and a bunch of weird stats to show up (like PDs).

[johnnyshaka]

How about going through the log files to see when these situations arise and maybe you'll be able to shed some light on what's going on. Maybe jot down what the defense is expecting you to do and their formation and there might be a correlation...who knows?

[Raiders Army]

In the limited games I've watched, there is a combination of bad throws (predominantly because the QB was hurried, but not always) and good defensive play.

[QuikSand]

In the limited games I've watched, there is a combination of bad throws (predominantly because the QB was hurried, but not always) and good defensive play.

I don't believe it's possible for there to be both a hurry and a pass defensed credited on the same play in FOF.

[Raiders Army]

I don't believe it's possible for there to be both a hurry and a pass defensed credited on the same play in FOF.

You're right. Thanks. I meant that sometimes it's a hurry and sometimes it's a pass defensed. I wasn't too clear on that.

[johnnyshaka]

I don't believe it's possible for there to be both a hurry and a pass defensed credited on the same play in FOF.

Just did a quick scan through about a dozen game logs...didn't see one instance of both a hurry and a PD on the same play.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Just did a quick scan through about a dozen game logs...didn't see one instance of both a hurry and a PD on the same play.

Perhaps a QB knockdown and a PD on the same play? The QBKD is when you read the defensive guy is all over the QB but the QB still gets the ball away. I seem to recall that if its incomplete, you get the hurry and if its complete you get the QBKD. But I am not sure. Maybe there are times with a QBKD that the pass is incomplete but gets credited to a bad throw/pass defense sometimes instead of a hurry. I am not going to check this, but someone can if they want. I am just throwing it out there.

[johnnyshaka]

IIRC...the only other comment I saw associated to a defended pass was about double coverage...either avoiding it or throwing into it.

[Ben E Lou]

Knockdowns are their own category. A knockdown can occur on a completion or incompletion. For passes that are not completed, though, it's always one and only one of the following:

bad pass
drop
interception
hurry
pass defended
pass blocked
Here's an example from an FOFL game earlier this year in which there were a bunch of incompletions.

<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody> <tr> <th align="left">Hell Creek</th> <th align="center">Att</th> <th align="center">Cmp</th> <th align="center">20+</th> <th align="center">BdTh</th> <th align="center">Drop</th> <th align="center">Dfns</th> <th align="center">Hurr</th> <th align="center">Knck</th> <th align="center">Intc</th></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">Skip Peterson</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">63</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">28</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">15</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#d9f4ff">1</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr> <th align="left">State College</th> <th align="center">Sack</th> <th align="center">Block</th> <th align="center">Hurry</th> <th align="center">Knock</th> <th align="center">PPlay</th></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">DE Marco Bennit</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">2.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">65</td></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">DT Hardy Leeuwenburg</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">1.0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">62</td></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">DE Lee Weir</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">66</td></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">DT Leo Dasilva</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0.0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">49</td></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">ILB Ted Pettus</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0.0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">67</td></tr> <tr> <td align="left" bgcolor="#f1dad8">CB Jerome Baxter</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0.0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">0</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#f1dad8">63</td></tr></tbody></table>

So, the 63 attempts broke down as follows:

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 106pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="141"><col style="width: 58pt;" width="77"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt; width: 58pt;" height="17" width="77">Completions</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" x:num="" align="right" width="64">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Bad Throws</td> <td x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Drops</td> <td x:num="" align="right">4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Defensed</td> <td x:num="" align="right">7</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Hurried</td> <td x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Blocked</td> <td x:num="" align="right">3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Interception</td> <td x:num="" align="right">1</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B1:B7)" align="right">63</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
There's no such thing statistically in FOF as a hurry or bad pass that results in an interception. There's always exactly one "reason," statistically, for a pass not being completed.

[PiemasterUK]

It would be interesting to know the relationship between Interceptions and other types of incompletion.

We know that Interceptions is a skill of defensive players and Avoid Interceptions is a skill of QBs. therefore it would logically follow that the chance of an interception happening on any given play depends on both the skill of the QB, the skill of the relevant pass defender plus a random dice roll of some kind.

But the question is how does the game determine when an interception happens? In interception just one of the possibilities thrown out there in the mix (along with hurry, blocked, completion etc) or is it first determined whether the throw is 'good' or 'bad' and then if it is bad then determined whether it is an interception? Or is it even more complex and the game first looks at the amount of pressure and how good the coverage is, then how good the throw is based on those two variables and then whether an interception occurs?

[Ben E Lou]

It would be interesting to know the relationship between Interceptions and other types of incompletion.

We know that Interceptions is a skill of defensive players and Avoid Interceptions is a skill of QBs. therefore it would logically follow that the chance of an interception happening on any given play depends on both the skill of the QB, the skill of the relevant pass defender plus a random dice roll of some kind.

But the question is how does the game determine when an interception happens? In interception just one of the possibilities thrown out there in the mix (along with hurry, blocked, completion etc) or is it first determined whether the throw is 'good' or 'bad' and then if it is bad then determined whether it is an interception? Or is it even more complex and the game first looks at the amount of pressure and how good the coverage is, then how good the throw is based on those two variables and then whether an interception occurs?I'd imagine that's more engine detail than Jim would be willing to answer, but I would leave the door open to the possibility that multiple factors play into the engine calculation of whether or not there's an incompletion (maybe good pressure on a play increases the likelihood of a CB being able to break up a pass or make an interception, for example). What we know is that the statistical "credit" is only given in one place.