FOF7 AI: Thoughts on SP Degree of Difficulty?

[Ben E Lou]

In my dynasty (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=87934), I'm letting the AI set the depth charts so I don't get the huge special teams advantage that I'd get otherwise, so I suppose I'm somewhat handicapped. That said, I took over the Raiders. The first season, of course, there are no moves of significance to make, so my 2-14 there shouldn't be credited to the AI (nor should a strong season there with a good team be taken as a sign that the AI is weak.) However, since then, when I was able to make moves to shape my team...

2014: 11-5, lost in WC round
2015: 7-9, no playoffs
2016: 8-8, no playoffs
2017: 7-9, no playoffs

So we are 33-31 in the regular season and 0-1 in the playoffs when I've had the reigns in the offseason--a study in mediocrity. Maybe I'm missing some new tricks, but so far, this is good to see.

[Senator]

It's nice to actually see you in the land of mediocrity, if only for the moment.

[MizzouRah]

It's nice to actually see you in the land of mediocrity, if only for the moment.

+1

[Ben E Lou]

I get that part. I meant to ask the question: how are others doing?

[ozias]

I started mine SP with New England.

They are a much better team than the Raiders, and we have been...

11-5 lost Division round
12-4 Lost Conference Final
13-3 Won the Bowl
12-4 Lost Conference Final
14-2 Lost Super Bowl

Brady was here for all but the last year. We still have Gronk, and the 3 WR's they drafted this past year IRL on the team.

Green Bay has been the most dominate team, they have been in 4 of the 5 Bowls, and are 3-1 in them. The one bowl they didn't make they lost to Philly in the Conference Final, so they just missed out on going to 5 straight bowls.

[MizzouRah]

Edit: nevermind

[kcchief19]

In my first real dynasty, I started with the Chiefs.

2013: 9-7, lost in WC round
2014: 11-5, lost in Super Bowl
2015: 8-8, no playoffs

Looks like I'm going backwards. Biggest blow for 2015 was that I had cap problems and tried to see if I could get Alex Smith to sign for less than he was asking. Peyton Manning retired and he jumped at the first full offer he got from the Broncos. Oof.

[Carman Bulldog]

I actually have some concerns about this. I had the following setup:

Coach handles depth chart and game planning. Cap range at default, combine accuracy at 50, injuries at 225. X-factor and chemistry on.

I started with the Browns who had a starting roster value of 12.

First season went 3-13. That off-season, I was able to make the following notable signings...

RB K. Hunter (45/45) $4.5, 3 yrs
FB L. McClain (50/50) $9.5, 4 yrs
TE J. Finley (66/66) $19.25, 3 yrs
WR R. Meachem (45/45) $5.5, 3 yrs
G M. Ramirez (56/56) $14.05, 3 yrs
DE C. Dunlap (54/67) $7.75, 3 yrs
DE L. Houston (66/66) $12, 4 yrs
DT K. Klug (47/47) $2.75, 2 yrs
LB J. Beason (47/47) $4.4, 3 yrs
LB A. Brooks (50/50) $4.4, 3 yrs
CB C. Graham (50/50) $7.2, 4 yrs
CB J. Arenas (48/48) $5.9, 3 yrs

With the 2nd overall pick, I took a WR (47/84). Now granted, we had some good talent leftover (grades are post 2014-EX) including T J. Thomas (85/85), WR J. Gordon (69/69) DT P. Taylor (70/70), LB Jabal Sheard (58/76), C A. Mack (63/63), S TJ Ward (60/60), CB J. Haden (58/58), LB B. Mingo (56/56), T M. Schwartz (52/58), G J. Greco (53/53).

Our quarterback was B. Hoyer (31/31).

In that second season, we ended up going 13-3 and winning the Super Bowl. Both of our stud WR's missed half the season each with injuries. Except for Mingo who missed the latter half of the season, our D was pretty healthy. O-Line also stayed healthy.

Offense finished 2nd in points, 5th in total yards, 9th in rushing, 10th in passing. Defense finished 5th best in points allowed, 8th in total yards, 4th in rush yards, 25th in passing yards. Led the league with a +14 turnover margin.

In the playoffs, we knocked off the two teams with the best records besides us, Houston (12-4) and Green Bay (13-3). I was out gained by 8 yards by the Packers but we put up more yardage in our first two wins.

I guess the one caveat is that what I felt was a very strong coaching staff. HC Dean Pees, OC NORV!!, DC Terrance James, AC Lorenzo Bumpers.

To me though, this just felt way too easy to turn a team around. Maybe we had a lot of lucky dice rolls and maybe coaching staff has a very big impact. Maybe I had too much top end talent to build around and that made things easier. I was a little bit disappointed with the win though as I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to play with any house rules. It just seemed too easy to land so many key parts such as Dunlap and Houston (two 65 rated DE's for about $6.5 million per year combined) as well as the supporting LB's and CB's that I signed.

[Ben E Lou]

I actually have some concerns about this. I had the following setup:

Coach handles depth chart and game planning. Cap range at default, combine accuracy at 50, injuries at 225. X-factor and chemistry on.

I started with the Browns who had a starting roster value of 12.

First season went 3-13. That off-season, I was able to make the following notable signings...

RB K. Hunter (45/45) $4.5, 3 yrs
FB L. McClain (50/50) $9.5, 4 yrs
TE J. Finley (66/66) $19.25, 3 yrs
WR R. Meachem (45/45) $5.5, 3 yrs
G M. Ramirez (56/56) $14.05, 3 yrs
DE C. Dunlap (54/67) $7.75, 3 yrs
DE L. Houston (66/66) $12, 4 yrs
DT K. Klug (47/47) $2.75, 2 yrs
LB J. Beason (47/47) $4.4, 3 yrs
LB A. Brooks (50/50) $4.4, 3 yrs
CB C. Graham (50/50) $7.2, 4 yrs
CB J. Arenas (48/48) $5.9, 3 yrs

With the 2nd overall pick, I took a WR (47/84). Now granted, we had some good talent leftover (grades are post 2014-EX) including T J. Thomas (85/85), WR J. Gordon (69/69) DT P. Taylor (70/70), LB Jabal Sheard (58/76), C A. Mack (63/63), S TJ Ward (60/60), CB J. Haden (58/58), LB B. Mingo (56/56), T M. Schwartz (52/58), G J. Greco (53/53).

Our quarterback was B. Hoyer (31/31).

In that second season, we ended up going 13-3 and winning the Super Bowl. Both of our stud WR's missed half the season each with injuries. Except for Mingo who missed the latter half of the season, our D was pretty healthy. O-Line also stayed healthy.

Offense finished 2nd in points, 5th in total yards, 9th in rushing, 10th in passing. Defense finished 5th best in points allowed, 8th in total yards, 4th in rush yards, 25th in passing yards. Led the league with a +14 turnover margin.

In the playoffs, we knocked off the two teams with the best records besides us, Houston (12-4) and Green Bay (13-3). I was out gained by 8 yards by the Packers but we put up more yardage in our first two wins.

I guess the one caveat is that what I felt was a very strong coaching staff. HC Dean Pees, OC NORV!!, DC Terrance James, AC Lorenzo Bumpers.

To me though, this just felt way too easy to turn a team around. Maybe we had a lot of lucky dice rolls and maybe coaching staff has a very big impact. Maybe I had too much top end talent to build around and that made things easier. I was a little bit disappointed with the win though as I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to play with any house rules. It just seemed too easy to land so many key parts such as Dunlap and Houston (two 65 rated DE's for about $6.5 million per year combined) as well as the supporting LB's and CB's that I signed.Another quick point - we need to avoid basing too much on how the game handles the built-in contracts from an NFL start career (or any artificial startup). The contracts it kicks off with might set things up to be unrealistic for a few years before becoming a true "FOF" market-driven situation.

I think we need to be 4-5 years deep to have much sense of what FOF is going to look like with contracts, etc.It's always going to be overly easy in the first few offseasons. Note that I turned the Raiders around that quickly as well. The real challenge comes in keeping that new team together long-term, not in poaching players in the first offseason because the AI is built to handle FOF contracts, not NFL defaults.

[garion333]

In my main SP campaign I've taken over the Ravens. I purged the roster in 2013 and we went 4-12. For my first few "real" seasons, this is how things went:

2014: 8-8
2015: 10-6 (lost in WC)
2016: 14-2 (lost in Divisional)

I want to get a few more seasons under my belt before I declare anything about how SP is, but we've been one and done in the playoffs twice now, which is disconcerting and encouraging at the same time.

I'm playing as a GM and rexxing the depth and gameplans.

[Carman Bulldog]

It's always going to be overly easy in the first few offseasons. Note that I turned the Raiders around that quickly as well. The real challenge comes in keeping that new team together long-term, not in poaching players in the first offseason because the AI is built to handle FOF contracts, not NFL defaults.

Yeah, I definitely agreed with that sentiment when it was posted in the other thread. Additionally, Carlos Dunlap (now 65/65) is already a Veteran Holdout (and Kendall Hunter for that matter, up to a 50/50). I feel the more of those the better for the human player when it is warranted. I also let Alex Mack walk in the off-season, although with $8 million in cap room left, I could have realistically signed him at the $6 he was asking for.

Right now though there are still WAY, WAY too many good players being cut in FA1. I am hoping this ship rights itself after a few seasons. I do have my concerns though, especially after the cap management issues that I saw with New England extending Brady and then giving $55 million to Brian Hoyer. It's those sorts of moves that leads to teams needing to cut some of these other players.

I will say though that it is much better than 2K7 as the worst teams seem to have no more than $19 million in dead cap room right now, which is a stark contrast to those first few seasons in the previous version.

[Olsson]

I have started a franchise as Jacksonville. Here are my first three seasons:

2013: 5-11
2014: 7-9
2015: 11-5 (WC game loss to Pittsburgh)

My QB is Josh Freeman although he was injured in the playoff game against the Steelers. I signed LeSean McCoy prior to 2015. But he dropped to 54/54 in TC.

I have rexed the defense and used the Smash Mouth gameplan from the gameplan libraby.

The defense was the main reason I started 9-0 and they ended up 4th in yards and 3rd in scoring.

[Marmel]

Cleveland Browns:

6-10 - no playoffs
7-9 - no playoffs
9-6-1 - upset Patriots on the road to reach AFC Title Game
8-7-1 - no playoffs
9-7 - again upset Patriots on the road to reach AFC title game
11-5 - Lost in conference finals for the 3rd time

I drafted a running QB in round 2 after the first season. He is usually ranked in the bottom 3rd as far as QB rating, but his running ability brings something to the table in this version.

[DukeRulesMAB]

Anyone explored the trade AI yet? Back in the day, that was easily the most exploitable part of the AI, and it would be nice to really get into trading again without feeling like you are gaming the system.

[perez24]

I started with the Redskins and went 6-10. RGIII and Cousins equally sucked. Kyle Shanahan, the much-hated Redskins OC, left his dad and took the HC job at San Diego.

As far as the trading goes, I got a 2nd and 6th for Cousins in the offseason and no one wanted some of my overpaid guys.

[Vaevictis_386]

Started with complete draft, drafted to 19-20 round, scout handled rest. Went 12-4 and lost in the divisional championship game.

[Vaevictis_386]

I don't see any difficulty levels anywhere -- Main Street, Wall St., etc. AM I missing something?

[Yoda]

Well, we've discussed it a little in IMs but thought I'd post here and in more detail....

My first go was an allocation draft. I snagged Tom Brady with like 1.28 and won 2 bowls.

Did the next allocation draft, went with like a 40-45 rated guy at QB... best record I got was 11-5.

I am tempted to do what you are doing and see how it goes. I've already won a few bowls and such, but I am also maxing out my special teams. Maybe later tonight I'll start one up.

[Vaevictis_386]

Update:

Started with complete draft, fake players.

1st Season: Lost Conf Championship
2nd Season: Won Super Bowl w/backup QB
3rd Season: Won Super Bowl
4th Season: Won Super Bowl w/2nd string RB starting for all post week 2 games

[TRO]

Starting with a complete draft has been easy mode. I just don't think the AI is set up with for dispersal draft.

[Antmeister]

Okay, it does seem to be getting easier, however I don't know if I just happened to luck into this. 8 seasons completed. 3 trips to the FO Bowl. Multiple playoffs appearances.

Awesome storylines however.

1st Front Office Bowl (2015). Won with my backup QB Brad Sorenson because Philip Rivers was injured at the last game of the season. QB was serviceable, but my defensive helped us win that first one against the Green Bay Packers

2nd Front Office Bowl (2016). Rivers has a completion percentage of 90.9 (playoff record) by completed 20 out of 22 passes for 317 yards and 4 touchdowns and has a QB rating of 158.3 (another playoff record) against those same Green Bay Packers.

3rd Front Office Bowl (2019). 2 years prior I didn't resign Philip Rivers and decided to pick up a 48/48 rated QB E.J. Manuel who had been riding the bench as a back up with Buffalo for 5 years. His first year he takes us to the Conference championship where we lose. In 2019, we make it to the Front Office Bowl again but end up losing to Seattle 31-20.

Now here is the kicker. I did not start the game with any draft and I am not gameplanning any of the games. The only moves I make is who is inactive or active and who gets signed. So basically I am playing strictly as a GM.

Here are the settings I am using:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/sp_fof7/sp_settings.jpg

And here is my GM history:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/sp_fof7/gm_chargers.jpg

Now what is most likely the key to this is I picked up a hell of a coaching staff immediately after the first horrid year. Now what I found cool is that you can know click on the coaches experience and see the history of any of the coaching staff. Here is my head coach, who I had picked up (poached) to be my head coach from New York:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/sp_fof7/staff_history.jpg

Coaches are crucial in this game because they determine how you see your players, develop your players and also seem to give bonuses in the playoffs as well. Cool stuff but I am so curious to see how this balances out as the years go on and/or my coach decides to retire. But I do admit it was fairly easy to build a good staff.

[Antmeister]

By the way, my roster rating has sucked the entire time. Highest I got was a 35 and that was during my 4-12 season. Seems as if it is backwards. Wonder if the 35 is supposed to be a 65 and my 18 is supposed to be an 82.

[djsatu]

Still haven't won the bowl, and like to play as realistic as possible. It seems that going for the gusto in FA and with coach signings is the way to go. Im still loving the game and building my team through the draft, so that first championship will feel awesome when I actually get a chance to play for it!

[korme]

Acting only as a GM, I just went 15-1 and won the SB. It's the year 1997, this is my 3rd bowl win. The league began in 1952. Pretty tough.

382-335-3 (.532), 22 playoff appearances in 46 years.

Also... my highest roster rating in those 46 years is 38. Don't know what's up with that.

[BishopMVP]

Anyone explored the trade AI yet? Back in the day, that was easily the most exploitable part of the AI, and it would be nice to really get into trading again without feeling like you are gaming the system.Some of the same problems - CPU AI undervalues guys at certain positions (S, MLB/WLB, G/C). They'll draft them around 15-20, then be willing to turn around and deal them to you for a 2nd or 3rd round pick after training camp. (WLB as a whole seems to be a glaring hole in the AI, as players will ask for about half the money of SLB's, and then you can just convert them to SLB's with no ratings loss after they sign an extension.)

I still think the AI is willing to give up wayyy too much to trade up a couple spots near the top of the draft (like multiple 1st round picks, which should only ever be the case if there is 1 franchise QB.)

And, if you really want to, you can still easily exploit it by trading your future 1's/2's to whatever team you project to be terrible (90% of the time that's the Raiders, regardless of whether it was a dispersal draft or how many years into the future you are :) ), for their exact same picks, and at worst they'll ask for a 7th to be thrown in. Or even trade a late 1st if there's no one you like left for some team's 1 you project to be top 5 the next year. Those are both easy enough to avoid, but it would be nice if the AI teams valued their future 1st round picks at whatever slot they most recently finished. You could probably still exploit it here and there with a team that a franchise QB left/retired from, but that would at least require some effort and risk. They seem to do a decent job protecting their own 1st round picks once the season starts and they know they suck, so it shouldn't be that hard to mimic.

But, as it is now, I pretty much just wait for trades the computer proposes and decide yes/no. (I do wish there were some more AI offers during the draft, but I can see where that would be more effort to code than it's worth.)Now what is most likely the key to this is I picked up a hell of a coaching staff immediately after the first horrid year.

Coaches are crucial in this game because they determine how you see your players, develop your players and also seem to give bonuses in the playoffs as well. Cool stuff but I am so curious to see how this balances out as the years go on and/or my coach decides to retire. But I do admit it was fairly easy to build a good staff.Yeah, there's way too many good coaches (and free agents) floating around year 1-2, so if you want to go all out and you can load up a staff within that first year, even if you're 32nd in draft order. It'll be interesting to see when it's 2030 and I need to replace the current staff.

For that reason, I do wish FOF had the option to sim multiple years hands-off so you could just jump into a mature league.By the way, my roster rating has sucked the entire time. Highest I got was a 35 and that was during my 4-12 season. Seems as if it is backwards. Wonder if the 35 is supposed to be a 65 and my 18 is supposed to be an 82.I've thought that was off for so many iterations I'm assuming Jim intends it to be a check on your rating - i.e. it would be more impressive and worthy of a higher score if you win a Super Bowl with a poor roster. Not sure why that would be the goal though - this is a GM sim, not a coaching sim.

[AlexB]

I do wish FOF had the option to sim multiple years hands-off so you could just jump into a mature league.

While I like the improvements in FOF7, and it has breathed enough life back into it that I'm playing again, this is the one thing that surprised me the most that was not included in the update.

[Brando70]

I've completed 10 years in my Bears SP campaign. I generally perform only as the GM with only a few manual depth chart changes. The first six were with Marc Trestman at the helm.

2013: 6-10
2014: 10-6, WC team and lost in WC round
2015: 10-6, missed playoffs (doh!). I re-signed Trestman
2016: 9-6-1, WC team, upset Cowboys in the WC round and then lost to Packers
2017: 5-11. Cutler surprisingly jumped ship in the offseason, leaving a gaping hole at QB. I give my rookie second-round QB a lot of starts at the end.
2018: 4-12. My QB develops to average levels, but the season goes down the tubes. I can Trestman.
2019: 10-6. I hire Mike Tomlin from DC, where he was the Redskins defensive coordinator. I also sign a Cutler-like QB, a fourth-year former #1 pick with high ratings but a rather mediocre career so far. Started 4-5 but went on a tear in the second half, won the division, and lost to the Redskins in the division round.
2020: 9-7, no playoffs
2021: 12-4, won the division, lost to Jacksonville in the Super Bowl. My offense was actually not good due to to injuries and underperforming players, but the defense was a top five unit.
2022: 10-5-1. Won the Super Bowl as a WC team. This team was considerably better statistically than the 12-4 team, but lost some tough games.

Despite the Super Bowl win, I found it considerably more difficult than 2k7. I usually had competitive teams no matter what, whereas now it feels more challenging to build and maintain a good team. I only had one house rule -- I can't offer a player less money than they ask for. I also did not try to do any serious shenanigans in terms of trades.

[Antmeister]

Okay yes, I spoke to soon. 15 years in (since I watch every game in Solevision, it takes a while) and I have the 2 Bowls early and nothing more.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/15years.jpg

What was cool (from a game perspective that is) is that my head coach increased in his intelligence over those years, but his motivation and discipline, scouting and interviewing skills dwindled. I then kept losing staff members due to their skills increasing and they eventually became head coaches elsewhere (Peyton Manning was an offensive coordinator for me and left me after 2 years to be head coach. Should have promoted him, but my head coach had better ratings at the time). I eventually had to let my head coach go and know he an average defensive coordinator for another Cincinnati:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/pfewell.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/pfrecord.jpg

It has gotten really rough because there are generally slim pickings in Free Agency. And when you do get those +70 players, you can only generally sign one of them to them to stay under the cap. The "silent auction" method for the top free agents have made it a bit tougher as well (nice addition that keeps me playing one more turn in single player). Here is a 5 year vet:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/highcontract.jpg

So single player has been quite the challenge recently especially when playing with injuries at 200. You get some players who do not have many injuries over the course of their career. You have some players that tend to be out multiple games each year and then you have those players who just have a bunch of minor injures. For whatever reason, I love the fact that I see my players play through injury. Here is a list of injuries over a 12 year career of my LG Al Euhus. I kept him around for all those years because he was always money in protecting my QB and during his 12 year he still played in :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/in1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/in2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/in3.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4356992/in4.jpg

The immersion of this game, for me, has been off the charts. If this game had a media component to it, it will be ridiculously amazing.

[Nataris]

I actually have some concerns about this. I had the following setup:

Coach handles depth chart and game planning. Cap range at default, combine accuracy at 50, injuries at 225. X-factor and chemistry on.

I started with the Browns who had a starting roster value of 12.

First season went 3-13. That off-season, I was able to make the following notable signings...

RB K. Hunter (45/45) $4.5, 3 yrs
FB L. McClain (50/50) $9.5, 4 yrs
TE J. Finley (66/66) $19.25, 3 yrs
WR R. Meachem (45/45) $5.5, 3 yrs
G M. Ramirez (56/56) $14.05, 3 yrs
DE C. Dunlap (54/67) $7.75, 3 yrs
DE L. Houston (66/66) $12, 4 yrs
DT K. Klug (47/47) $2.75, 2 yrs
LB J. Beason (47/47) $4.4, 3 yrs
LB A. Brooks (50/50) $4.4, 3 yrs
CB C. Graham (50/50) $7.2, 4 yrs
CB J. Arenas (48/48) $5.9, 3 yrs

With the 2nd overall pick, I took a WR (47/84). Now granted, we had some good talent leftover (grades are post 2014-EX) including T J. Thomas (85/85), WR J. Gordon (69/69) DT P. Taylor (70/70), LB Jabal Sheard (58/76), C A. Mack (63/63), S TJ Ward (60/60), CB J. Haden (58/58), LB B. Mingo (56/56), T M. Schwartz (52/58), G J. Greco (53/53).

Our quarterback was B. Hoyer (31/31).

In that second season, we ended up going 13-3 and winning the Super Bowl. Both of our stud WR's missed half the season each with injuries. Except for Mingo who missed the latter half of the season, our D was pretty healthy. O-Line also stayed healthy.

Offense finished 2nd in points, 5th in total yards, 9th in rushing, 10th in passing. Defense finished 5th best in points allowed, 8th in total yards, 4th in rush yards, 25th in passing yards. Led the league with a +14 turnover margin.

In the playoffs, we knocked off the two teams with the best records besides us, Houston (12-4) and Green Bay (13-3). I was out gained by 8 yards by the Packers but we put up more yardage in our first two wins.

I guess the one caveat is that what I felt was a very strong coaching staff. HC Dean Pees, OC NORV!!, DC Terrance James, AC Lorenzo Bumpers.

To me though, this just felt way too easy to turn a team around. Maybe we had a lot of lucky dice rolls and maybe coaching staff has a very big impact. Maybe I had too much top end talent to build around and that made things easier. I was a little bit disappointed with the win though as I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to play with any house rules. It just seemed too easy to land so many key parts such as Dunlap and Houston (two 65 rated DE's for about $6.5 million per year combined) as well as the supporting LB's and CB's that I signed.

Well, to be fair, you seemed to have gamed the system quite a bit. How realistic is it for teams to sign so many solid players in the off season?

I know that I need to show restraint in FA and trades to keep the game from being too easy. I do wish there was a difficulty slider or something.

A big problem I have is teams don't hold enough value for their draft picks. Sometimes they will let a 1st (top 10 pick) go for relative peanuts.

I also, I think I found a bug. Week 5 you can be number 1 in the power rankings, undefeated and switch draft picks with a winless team. Offer your first for there's and they practically beg you to accept the deal.

Self restraint is big this game if you want a challenge. Time to join a MP league I think :)