Building a defense

[Caligari]

So, I've often found myself unsure about how to put together the defense for my team but I've managed to muddle through and even create a powerful unit on occasion. I've recently started my maiden career with the new version and I've hit my second year and I'm faced with the same questions I always have:

* Should I be creating a 3-4 or 4-3 defense?

* What are the keys that I should be looking for to build around?

* What skills are most useful for specific positions (eg. WLB vs SLB)?

* When building depth, are there tendencies I should favor in players in various areas?

* How much of a penalty is it to have an otherwise outstanding player with a 0 or near-0 in a positional stat as a starter? A backup?

* How bad it is to have players rostered as backup at a position which doesn't match what they are officially playing?

Overall I have always understood the defensive unit less well than my offense. I commonly use offensive game plan settings and select those based on what I have in the way of personnel (and acquire based on what I'm trying to build). But defense feels more reactive, and I always "leave it to Rex" and simply take what I get from game to game.

So I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on how I should approach the defense, and what I should be looking for in my players.


(Note: I'm only playing single-player at the moment - I'm not playing against real people, if that makes a difference).

Thanks!

[Gallifrey]

I built a Browns team on defense and won a SB. Took several years and I did have to find a QB.

I ran a 3-4 with the LB core being top notch. Rated in the 70s. I had my one top corner with a rating in the 70s and led the league with int's. I had two really strong pass rushing DEs and a SS rated 75.

My ILB's were good at pass rushing and all had 4 sacks.

On the other side my offense had the good QB (rated at 64 when I won it in his 3rd year). My WR's were nothing special but I had a great OL.

[mrtourette]

This is a good thread that introduced me to a lot of the concepts needed:

How to play Defense - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=71641)

With regards to your last point I've tried to find the results/penalties of playing players out of position myself but I think it comes down the trial and error, but the player's experience in other positions will obviously affect it.

[Nataris]

Form an identity on defense. You can't be everything. Focus only on players that fit that.

I currently have a top 3 defense and lead the league in most critical categories. I built my defense with pass rushing and turnovers is mind. High INT secondary and a nasty defensive line.

But, I only did so knowing that my division has 2 of the top 5 passing teams and I needed to stop them to have a chance.

You question on what skills to look for is impossible to answer. That all depends on what defense you run and what your focus is.

[RomaGoth]

I have been thinking about the defensive side of the ball as well. As a Lions fan, I have a stacked defensive line, average to above average linebacker core, and outright atrocious secondary. Thus, I know where I need to upgrade.

The Lions use a base 4-3 defense irl, and this revolves around that strong d-line. However, I am considering changing to a 3-4 and trading either Suh or Fairly for some linebacker help. I tend to prefer fast, athletic linebackers that can hang with slot receivers, new-age tight ends (i.e., Gronk, Graham, etc.), and even occasionally run the deep routes with a flanker/split end.

Has anyone here switched defenses like this, or had any success with a 3-4 defensive scheme? If so, what worked and why? What types of players seem to work best?

[Nataris]

I could be wrong but I used the 34 in my first 2 seasons before restarting a career. Small sample size but I really struggled getting a pass rush together. My LB corp was loaded with a sub par DL. My DL ended up with more sacks then my stud wlb with 90+ pass rush skills.

My first career running the 43 pass rush and my first 2 season so fare were awesome defensively.

I learned a ton about roster building since my 34 attempt so I plan to give it another go. This time I plan to use a much better NT in hopes it frees up some LB stuff.

[Caligari]

You question on what skills to look for is impossible to answer. That all depends on what defense you run and what your focus is.

I guess what I was getting at there was more along the lines of what characteristics are of more import to, say a DE than a DT, or an ILB as compared to an OLB, all other things being equal. Or, perhaps, if I'm going to be weak in a skill where is it going to hurt the defense overall the least?

I'm very conscious that these are either complicated or impossible questions, so I'm really just looking for starting points to anchor a growing understanding that ties directly into my team.

Perhaps flipping it around makes sense as well: if I'm doing badly when faced with a strong outside runner (or an inside runner, or passes to the TE, or...) where should I be looking to make fixes? What is the importance of the playcalling coach as opposed to the various relevant skills in the various seemingly important roles, as well as the overall defensive formation, the defensive attitude, and the pressure and skills at the other positions... Again, not a small set of questions. :)

==

I should add that my team's largest problem in the first season as far as I was concerned was too many penalties, which I have worked on through refreshing my coaching staff (and that seems to have helped). Looking at the defensive unit now, I have some very affordable players with a broad base of strong skills but some with massive individual skill voids (eg. no pass rush strength or no endurance, or whatever) at various key areas. I'm trying to work out whether I should be replacing those people or shoring up around them. At the same time I'm trying to assess what signs should be suggesting a 3-4 or 4-3 approach.

From what I've read here and elsewhere over the last few days, and some playing around with shifting players (I wish you could move players from role to role a bit more freely in the pre-season to find a good combination, without developing a resistance to any further changes), I think I don't have the people for a workable 3-4 at the moment. While I have a reasonable DT, he's not the monster I think we'd need at NT given the offensive lines we saw in the first season, and my DEs have skills across the board with less overt power (and size/weight) than I think I'd need. Similarly, while I have enough LB to make the 3-4 on paper, I don't think they are clearly outclassing the people who would get less time on the smaller defensive line.

So now it is down to wondering whether those completely missing skills here and there are critical or just a pity. And where I should be looking as I work to improve my team during the year and in the off-season.

The comments here so far have given me a lot to think about!

[castorius]

From my experience, I've found the 4-3 to be more successful. The problem with the 3-4 (assuming you have the quality linebackers to use this formation) is that it pretty much renders your defensive linemen (including DEs) as not being the primary pass rushers. Generally speaking, your OLBs (particularly the WLB) will accumulate the most sacks on your team. The DEs in a 3-4 generally will not get alot of sacks, even if they're very good.

Despite this, I found the DEs in the 4-3 tend to accumulate more sacks than a WLB ever could wth 3-4.

So if you have any strong pass rushing DEs, I would recommend against using a 3-4 formation.

My best championship team I had was using a super strong secondary that featured one elite corner (ended the season with about 90% defense percentage) and the rest of the starting lineup was stacked with 60-70 rated guys. Even my nickel, dime and backup corners were good too.

The weakness on that team was mainly from the linebacker spots, and my D-Line wasn't great at getting sacks either.

My team ended up being one of the best to defend the pass, even when getting the league's lowest number of sacks (pure pass defense).

Of course what helped was my offense was ridiculously stacked all around from QB, RB, 2 Elite WRs and a good WR3 and easily the best O-Line in the league at both the run and pass. I ran the Greatest Show on Turf Offense and scored high points most games. I'm assuming with that explosive offense, I forced the other team to pass more often, thus surrendering the other team's gameplan to my elite secondary (I'm assuming they faced alot of my top end nickel and dime coverages).

[Nataris]

Yeah, its still hard to say because every position is different based on the philosophy. For example, a 34 DE you want to be a very large run stopper. But in a 43 a DE is more focused on pass rushing. Not blowing you off, its just hard to answer.

Try this for a defensive philosophy.. This should be a good starting point for a balanced defense. I'll leave it to you to decide what quality of player you want in each position.

43 Balanced Defense

DT- get one that is a big stong run stopper and pair him with one that can stop the run but also has good pass rushing skills.

LDE- pass rush skills but also decent/good at stopping the run.
RDE- pure pass rusher

SLB- balanced. Decent at stopping the run, pass rushing and at least decent coverage skills.
MLB- strong, smart, run stopper that hits hard.
WLB- pass rusher

CB- man to man skills, smart and decent at bump and run and INTs.
FS- great zone skills, int and smart.
SS- balanced. Run stopper that is good in coverage and can hit hard

Hope this helps. This is not going to be the best defense but should be a great starting point to figure out what works for you etc. Tweak things as you wish.

[Caligari]

43 Balanced Defense

DT- get one that is a big stong run stopper and pair him with one that can stop the run but also has good pass rushing skills.

LDE- pass rush skills but also decent/good at stopping the run.
RDE- pure pass rusher

SLB- balanced. Decent at stopping the run, pass rushing and at least decent coverage skills.
MLB- strong, smart, run stopper that hits hard.
WLB- pass rusher

CB- man to man skills, smart and decent at bump and run and INTs.
FS- great zone skills, int and smart.
SS- balanced. Run stopper that is good in coverage and can hit hard

Hope this helps. This is not going to be the best defense but should be a great starting point to figure out what works for you etc. Tweak things as you wish.

Great stuff.

So, I lack the Run skills in both my DTs (well, really strong run skills at least) which I was figuring was the heart of my problems against the run (when I have them), and I did pick up the correct RDE even if Rex plays him second to someone with less pass rush skill.

I may have weakened my LBs to some extent this season, with a guy stuck as a WILB (from a flirt with 3-4) who is really a classic WLB (although honestly I think he's a fifth wheel in my unit, on balance). And my MLB and SLB would ideally swap positions (although that doesn't always work as well as you want it to).

And it would seem that my SS and FS might be better swapped.

Plenty of food for thought.

[Nataris]

I suggest not rexing depth charts. Although others may feel different. He might put the best overall player in a spot but I might want the lower overall player that has better specific skills suited for each spot.

Actually, I Rex EVERYTHING. Then go in and change what I don't like.

[Nataris]

I feel your pain. I am forever switching players and really hate that the game limits you so much in that way. Its always a very tough call.

[Caligari]

I suggest not rexing depth charts. Although others may feel different. He might put the best overall player in a spot but I might want the lower overall player that has better specific skills suited for each spot.

Actually, I Rex EVERYTHING. Then go in and change what I don't like.

Exactly what I have been doing. Now I'll trust my instincts a bit more (especially when backed by some recommendations, or eventually a bit more experience).

[Nataris]

Its all trial and error, friend. My biggest suggestion is still to figure out an identity and build the team around that. Trust in your instincts and follow a plan.

My first career I tried to an "everything" defense and it just didn't work. Now that I'm focused, I average at least 5 sacks + turnovers a game (I mean collectively).

Finally, think about your offense. Offense and defense work best when there is synergy between the two. Strong passing game paired with a big time pass rush defense for example. Pass offense gets the lead, forcing the opponent to pass more, allowing your defensive strength to shine.

All food for thought.

[RomaGoth]

From what I have read here, I think I will stick with the 4-3. I have 2 outstanding DT's (although I am not a big fan of Suh and his antics) and a couple of young DE's who look to be future stars. It just seems the linebackers are average and the secondary is terrible. Good stuff.

[conception]

There are advantages to both 4-3 and 3-4. I always found it easier to draft good pass rushing linemen while I struggled at finding quality LB's in the draft. Sometimes, however, you can find good pass rushing LB's in FA and get them for a steal. "Steal" and pass rushing lineman isn't something usually grouped together. I've never been dead set on one type of defense as much as I looked at the talent of my front 7 and figured out which scheme would allow me to field a complete group with a couple attainable additions.

[Nataris]

Anyone with a pass rushing 34 that could offer some thoughts on how its been working so far? I seem to get much more pressure from the 43.

[RomaGoth]

Anyone with a pass rushing 34 that could offer some thoughts on how its been working so far? I seem to get much more pressure from the 43.

This was my experience in FOF2k7, not sure yet with the new version.

[kcarr]

Personally I go with a pretty conservative 4-3 defense limiting blitzing to only half a dozen times a game, pressuring with just the front 4, and using the rest of the guys for coverage. Here is what I look for at each spot:

RDE: here pure pass rusher. Technique is the most important here. Pass rush strength is second. After that endurance, hitting, and definitely last run defense in that order. Run defense is pretty much irrelevant.

DT: one spot here should ideally be a big run stuffer. Run defense is most important. After that endurance. Rush strength and hitting is nice but not needed. Technique is pretty much irrelevant. He should be backed up by a pass rusher who plays nickel situations. This backup only needs rush strength and technique.

Other 2 linemen: between the LDE and other DT these two need to be more balanced. One should preferably be elite or close to it, great at all areas and demanding double teams combining rush strength, rush technique, ans run defense. Endurance is also important but hitting may be seen as a bonus here and not completely vital. The other can be more mid level as he will face single teams and just need to hold his own.

SLB: this should be your best coverage linebacker, looking heavily at man and zone. He is responsible for covering the opposing TE. The LDE provides run support so mid level run defense is good enough. Needs good level diagnosis and being a solid hitter is nice. This is usually my best backer and often my best player. If I can't get what I want here I will split between a coverage guy and a decent run stopper.

MLB: diagnosis is usually the most important here, especially is I have a good run stuffer in front of him. Run defense and punishing hitter are also important. He will make a lot of tackles generally and is primarily a run defender though he will sometimes have to cover a running back here and there. Unless I am facing a lot of receiving backs though I won't look much at coverage.

WLB: with the RDE being a pure rusher this guy needs to provide the run support. He should be a tackling machine who mainly looks to stop the run and make plays hitting backs. He does not have to be a great player and other ratings are not very important.

CB: the top 2 guys the most important rating for me is bump and run. After that I go man the zone. After that interception is good to have, probably more in my number one corner as I will try to leave him one on one often on the other teams #2 reciever and double teaming the #1 to try to force throws at my top guy. My nickel and dime players I go man then zone then diagnosis and run support as they play inside and are replacing linebackers on the field.

FS: zone coverage, interceptions, then hitting and then man to man are most important. I want them to cause turnovers and sometimes they have to take on a deep receiver in man.

SS: hitting power, zone coverage, run defense, then man to man. He needs to be able to cover and help against the run. Man coverage is just in case I blitz. He is mostly an enforcer taking away the middle.

[Nataris]

CB: the top 2 guys the most important rating for me is bump and run. After that I go man the zone. After that interception is good to have, probably more in my number one corner as I will try to leave him one on one often on the other teams #2 reciever and double teaming the #1 to try to force throws at my top guy. My nickel and dime players I go man then zone then diagnosis and run support as they play inside and are replacing linebackers on the field.


I've been trying to set my defense up like this since I started playing but haven't been able to figure out how. Can you explain how you get your 1 cb to always single the 2 wr?

Thanks.

[kcarr]

Set your best corner in the #2 corner spot and the set it to align the corners by top receiver. Note, however, best wr is determined by route running so sometimes the best wr is actually considered 2nd best and you have to switch your corners to adjust.

[litangel]

My strategies on defense have worked moderately well so far, but not exceptional, I have played 3-4, but would like to try 4-3. But for the 3-4 this is my personel strategy.
* I pick out one of the 3 basic pass coverages, Man, Zone, BnR and decide I won't use it much, and feel free to skimp on that coverage for almost all my players, (exceptions listed below). Just in terms of player design, I have found skipping BnR opens the most possiblities.
* My free safety must always be a stud at zone, good at man, and I don't care about his BnR
* My SS is similar, but if I plan to play 1-deep much, his run rating becomes very important, and if I am using BnR, that is important also.
* At least one and preferably both of my CB's need to be great at man, so I cam play the mixed Man/Zone coverages.
* In a 3 man line, they all have to be studs. My NT must be great at run and diagnosis, between the two DE, if one is better at PR and one at Run, I always put the better rush guy at LDE
* I don't care about my WLB;s coverage skills at all, must be great PR and good against run.
* My ILBs need to be good against run, play diag, and the 2 coverages I use. PH is nice to disrupt crossing routes. If one can PR, that is a bonus, this is often a position that is a low priority for me.
* My SLB needs to be good at everything except the coverage I don't use, he is usually my highest priority LB.
* My nickel corner is important, treat him almost like a starter in priority

[Caligari]

Its all trial and error, friend. My biggest suggestion is still to figure out an identity and build the team around that. Trust in your instincts and follow a plan.

Just to follow up a little. I took Nataris's set of recommendations and moved some players around a bit in my 4-3, and have been starting a player who Rex had as a backup.

The results have been quite heartening. Its half way through the season and we are clearly the #1 defense overall, and have kept opposing total yards right down. While I credit this partially with the acquisitions I made, and putting the right people into the right places, I have to give due props to the defensive coordinator, who is a far better playcaller than his predecessor.

What I'm seeing is that we are breaking up a lot of plays which previously I think would have gone places. There are still the occasional breakouts which result in 20 or 30 yards, but mostly the other team can't capitalize on those, and I've had opposition touchdowns right down to a frightening minimum. I haven't looked at our Red Zone defense stats, but I can't recall the last time someone scored from inside the 15. Our offense is hitting on all cylinders as well, and I'm certain that helps morale.

I don't have a lot of bargaining power at the moment, but I think I know what I will be looking for across the free agency and draft before next season. I'm going to have a look at the other positional suggestions people have made here, and perhaps even look into working on the defensive decisions and playcalling to see if there are tweaks I can make.

The advice here has really given me a solid start, thanks people!

[Nataris]

Glad I was able to help a bit :)

I've been having a ton of fun playing around with defense in the game. Sacks and turnovers are always the first things I check at the end of each game.

I've been toying with the idea of switching to a more specialty defense next season. Something like a nickel defense but using the nickelback as almost an extra strong safety. Basically I wanna completely neuter opponents passing game. My offense isn't stacked, yet im always top 3 in pts scored so I'm building the defense with that in mind.

Hopefully I can get a lead early forcing teams to pass against me. Right into the hands of the best pass rushing DL in the league and a secondary that strives on turnovers.

[Sharkn20]

My strategies on defense have worked moderately well so far, but not exceptional, I have played 3-4, but would like to try 4-3. But for the 3-4 this is my personel strategy.
* I pick out one of the 3 basic pass coverages, Man, Zone, BnR and decide I won't use it much, and feel free to skimp on that coverage for almost all my players, (exceptions listed below). Just in terms of player design, I have found skipping BnR opens the most possiblities.
* My free safety must always be a stud at zone, good at man, and I don't care about his BnR
* My SS is similar, but if I plan to play 1-deep much, his run rating becomes very important, and if I am using BnR, that is important also.
* At least one and preferably both of my CB's need to be great at man, so I cam play the mixed Man/Zone coverages.
* In a 3 man line, they all have to be studs. My NT must be great at run and diagnosis, between the two DE, if one is better at PR and one at Run, I always put the better rush guy at LDE
* I don't care about my WLB;s coverage skills at all, must be great PR and good against run.
* My ILBs need to be good against run, play diag, and the 2 coverages I use. PH is nice to disrupt crossing routes. If one can PR, that is a bonus, this is often a position that is a low priority for me.
* My SLB needs to be good at everything except the coverage I don't use, he is usually my highest priority LB.
* My nickel corner is important, treat him almost like a starter in priority

I played a lot similar than this guy! :devil: