4-3 under

[Mobarak]

Ok so the help file says on a 4-3 under defense that the LDT or NT

Left Defensive Tackle (T): Lines up in the 1-technique to the strong side of the center, and is responsible for the A-gap on the strong side. Since there are four linemen and the 1-technique tackle is always headed into this gap, he should be a little smaller and more athletic than a true nose tackle.

Wikipedia and my friend who is a high school coach say

There are two defensive tackles in the 4–3 scheme. Teams whose base front is an "over" or "under" front will have a nose tackle in this scheme. In schemes whose base set is an even 4–3, there is no nose tackle. Instead there is a left and right defensive tackle. When teams don't have a nose tackle, the tackles line up face on the offensive guards. The nose tackle is generally slightly larger and stronger and plays a shade or head-up technique in which he lines up on either the outside shoulder of the center or in the middle of his body depending on which way the strength of the play is going. The nose tackle's primary job is to stop the run and take on the double team (which is getting blocked by both the center and the weak-side or pulling guard) thus freeing up the linebackers to make a play. The second defensive tackle (simply referred to as the defensive tackle, under tackle or three tech) is generally a bit quicker and faster than the nose tackle, ideally weighing close to 300 pounds (140 kg) but quick-footed enough to shoot through a gap at the snap.[10] He plays a three technique, meaning he lines up on the outside shoulder of the strong side offensive guard. The job of a three tech is to prevent the run, keep the guard off linebackers, and rush the quarterback on pass plays

They are saying what actually makes sense the LDT is a NT who is alone in more space and should be the bigger of the 2 taking on the double team

So is the help file wrong or is it intentionally made to be different? Am I not reading it correctly? Most importantly, how many other things are in the game that I'm taking for granted knowing actual football and it's just not the same in FoF? =(

[Ushikawa]

The help file is there for a reason. While perhaps you, and certainly Wikipedia, know more about actual football than many players do, I don't feel like the terminology is particularly poor. The front you described would more closely resemble the 43 OVER in the game where the 3 tech is on the strong side and the DEs are wider (as described in the help file).

[Mobarak]

It's cool you don't feel the terminology is poor, do you feel it's accurate? But that doesn't matter either..

So is the help file wrong or is it intentionally made to be different? Am I not reading it correctly? Most importantly, how many other things are in the game that I'm taking for granted knowing actual football and it's just not the same in FoF? =(

[Katana22]

http://thesteelersfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/4dacb66d6955a754bf88f4ef3143ddf4_original.png

[Katana22]

In my opinion the help file is correct and what wiki said really didn't say that it was talking about the under or over front. The pic above shows Dallas in its 43 under front that Rod Marinelli loves, with the 3-tech on the weak side.

[Mobarak]

You are right the smaller DT is playing the 3tech on the weak side. Exactly right. The larger NT is playing alone in the shade, to take up the double team. Not sure how you are proving me wrong there.

The help file says the NT or LDT should be smaller than the RDT. How does that make sense?

[Mobarak]

Quite honestly, it just seems like the the player weights in the help file are reversed. The wording could be better but it does accurately describe the position.. but in the weight chart it's just wrong.

[Ben E Lou]

Quite honestly, it just seems like the the player weights in the help file are reversed. The wording could be better but it does accurately describe the position.. but in the weight chart it's just wrong.I've assumed that since the first time I used 43 Under. Pretty obvious that the weights in the chart are just backward. *shurg*

[Squirrel]

Sorry but not obvious here - what should the weights be in 4-3 under then?

Everything backward across the board i.e. switch left to right and weak-side to strong-side?

[Mobarak]

Sorry but not obvious here - what should the weights be in 4-3 under then?

Everything backward across the board i.e. switch left to right and weak-side to strong-side?

Seems like just the DT weights are switched. Ben if I play a heavier guy in the LDT slot am I receiving a penalty for the player being over weight?

The NT should certainly be heavier than the RDT, the exact weights aren't the important part.. I imagine it should just be flipped. The LDT at 316 and the RDT at 306.

[Ben E Lou]

Just the DT weights.

43 Under: The defensive front shifts a little to the weak side, much like the 34 Eagle. (So that puts the LDT almost over center, as is depicted in the photo.)

Left Defensive Tackle (T): Lines up in the 1-technique to the strong side of the center, and is responsible
for the A-gap on the strong side. Since there are four linemen and the 1-technique tackle is always
headed into this gap, he should be a little smaller and more athletic than a true nose tackle.

Right Defensive Tackle (T): Lines up in the 3-technique to the outside of the left guard, and is responsible
for the B-gap on the weak side. The 3-technique tackle in a 43 can be a little smaller and more athletic
than most tackles and may actually generate considerable quarterback pressure.

Again, the LDT is the NT, the RDT is the smaller one.

But the chart has RDT at 315 and LDT at 306. Those are backwards.

[Mobarak]

Just the DT weights.

43 Under: The defensive front shifts a little to the weak side, much like the 34 Eagle. (So that puts the LDT almost over center, as is depicted in the photo.)

Left Defensive Tackle (T): Lines up in the 1-technique to the strong side of the center, and is responsible
for the A-gap on the strong side. Since there are four linemen and the 1-technique tackle is always
headed into this gap, he should be a little smaller and more athletic than a true nose tackle.

Right Defensive Tackle (T): Lines up in the 3-technique to the outside of the left guard, and is responsible
for the B-gap on the weak side. The 3-technique tackle in a 43 can be a little smaller and more athletic
than most tackles and may actually generate considerable quarterback pressure.

Again, the LDT is the NT, the RDT is the smaller one.

But the chart has RDT at 315 and LDT at 306. Those are backwards.


So is it just a cosmetic error in the chart or does it affect the game ?

[Caligari]

If this feels like a mistake, please do report it to the developer (not on this site), so that it can be clarified or fixed.

[Katana22]

Not sure how you are proving me wrong there.

The help file says the NT or LDT should be smaller than the RDT. How does that make sense?

My mistake as I thought the conversatation was about where the 3-tech lined up in the 43 under.

I have played with the 43-under defense quite a lot and haven't notice anything negative in game play, I think that its just a cosmetic error, but I will be keeping a closer eye on this now.

[Katana22]

On a side note it would appear that the weights for the 43 over are reversed as well, RT-309 LT-316. seeing that the RT is the 1 tech shouldn't he be the heavier of the 2?
Thought I'd just edit this post, Now I'm not sure about this but should RE in the 43under & possibly the 43over be lighter and faster of the ends? RE-280 LE-275 is how it is on the chart but...

Left Defensive End (E): Lines up in the 5-technique outside the right tackle’s shoulder, and is responsible for the C-gap on the strong side. In general, defensive ends are smaller and quicker than ends in the 34. These are sometimes even players who could thrive as outside linebackers in a 34. Since he often goes up against the right tackle, who is often the offense’s best run blocker, he should be a little stronger than the right end.

Right Defensive End (E): Lines up in the 5-technique outside the left tackle’s shoulder, and is responsible for the C-gap on the weak side as well as containment. This is often your best pass rusher. Your right defensive end is often one of your top defensive players.

[PikeStance]

My understanding that the 4-3 can be played in different ways.
One of the DT acts like a hybrid NG in the 4-3. The NT/NG will often read to stop the run first. The other way is to play four smaller DL that play more aggressive by pushing up the field. In a 3-4 defense, you really should have three beast on the line. During the years of the Dome Patrol, the Saints had three such beasts, which allowed the LBs to make plays. I want to say the Vikings of the 70s and the Eagles of the late 80s play more of quicker down DL, while the Steelers of the 70s and the Ravens of the late 90s had Siragusa playing like NG/NT.

[Mobarak]

There are going to be lots of variations in real football. My only concern is taking penalties for playing guys out of weight, or should i just play them at the games recommended weight, even if it just makes no sense.

It's fine if the game is different, but I'm new to MP and the game overall.. the realism was so good that I naturally assumed the formations etc would be accurate and made those changes in the MP leagues I joined. I guess that's my fault for not reading the help file word for word with the intention of finding the differences between FoF and real life, or any "mistakes" that I might otherwise assume are accurate to pro ball.

One day in the future I hope to get answers to these puzzling questions. Is this affecting my defense playing guys out of the recommended weight if it's a mistake... ARE there any other "mistakes" in the help file or any other commonly understood things about real life ball that are not the same in FoF?

[Ben E Lou]

The reality is that this is pretty much impossible to test without using csvs to set up rosters the exact way they are wanted. For me, the weight difference isn't big enough to make it worth the time it would take to test it, and my guess is that it's going to be quite rare to have a real decision to make here . if I'm in 4-3 Under and have a run stopper who's 300+ pounds, he's going to be the LDT. If I have one who is a pass rusher who's 300+ pounds, he's going to be the RDT. I'm not going to parse the difference between a 300-pound run stopper and a 320-pound pass rusher here.

[Hammer]

Why not ask support?

[Mobarak]

So the answer is "It has an effect but not enough to be a noticeable problem" in your opinion?

[Ben E Lou]

So the answer is "It has an effect but not enough to be a noticeable problem" in your opinion?"It might have an effect, but if it does, from past experience I doubt it's enough to make it worth my time to delve into it unless I'm bored one day."