adjusted ratings

[Mobarak]

Does anyone know what adjusted rating are for W's and TE's. This has been mentioned and I've asked a few times but the people mentioning it can't seem to explain it.. Does anyone have any information on this?

[Ben E Lou]

Adjusted ratings are for draftees. They're not just for WRs and TEs. They're for all positions.

[Mobarak]

I still have no idea what you are talking about... perhaps a link to something better explaining it?

[Ben E Lou]

There is no link. Every Player has a grade and an adjusted grade or rating and adjusted rating. Something like that. It is on the main draft screen.

[Ben E Lou]

Or maybe it is score and adjusted score. I don't recall the specific time off the top of my head, but it is right there on the main drag screen in the game.

[cleancoder42]

Basically its a weighting. The system recognizes that QB's are more important than any other position, so a QB and a WR with the same potential ratings, the QB will have a higher adjusted grade. WR's are more valuable than TEs, so WR's will have a higher adjusted grade than TE's if they have similar potential.

I believe the context that you are referring to, was in regards to double teaming. You were wondering why you weren't double teaming a TE (you had Double team best selected) instead of WR even though the TE seemed to have better stats. Ben commented that it most likely is some sort of weighted calc that determines who to double team, included the adjusted grade.

Not to put words in Ben's mouth, but what I believe he was saying was, like with the draft, the system values WR's more than TEs, so just because a TE would seem to have better BARs (of whichever BARs are used to determine double teams) doesn't mean that the TE will get the double coverage. The system will place more weight on the WR's bars, so the TE has to be Better than the WR (by how much, I don't know) in order to draw the double team.

Ben can correct me if I'm interpreting his comment wrong, but that's the way I understand it working.

[Mobarak]

Basically its a weighting. The system recognizes that QB's are more important than any other position, so a QB and a WR with the same potential ratings, the QB will have a higher adjusted grade. WR's are more valuable than TEs, so WR's will have a higher adjusted grade than TE's if they have similar potential.

I believe the context that you are referring to, was in regards to double teaming. You were wondering why you weren't double teaming a TE (you had Double team best selected) instead of WR even though the TE seemed to have better stats. Ben commented that it most likely is some sort of weighted calc that determines who to double team, included the adjusted grade.

Not to put words in Ben's mouth, but what I believe he was saying was, like with the draft, the system values WR's more than TEs, so just because a TE would seem to have better BARs (of whichever BARs are used to determine double teams) doesn't mean that the TE will get the double coverage. The system will place more weight on the WR's bars, so the TE has to be Better than the WR (by how much, I don't know) in order to draw the double team.

Ben can correct me if I'm interpreting his comment wrong, but that's the way I understand it working.

This is more of an answer. In my scenario, I'm only referring to the RR rating that everyone is saying is used to determine the player who is double teamed. Based on what people say about RR and double teaming, you would expect a super TE with 100 RR would be the "best" receiver running a route.

This isn't in the help file, nor is it easily found in the abyss that is the forums. When you do find something... nobody knows anything for sure or its just wrong information. I literally had to laugh at how lost this is on the Dev as to how this might have lot to do with people not being attracted to the game.

I know people don't want to play a game that can be completely figured out, but I'm starting to agree with some of the people about the defensive side of the ball being completely broken. I can understand not controlling exactly who blitzes every time. I can understand not being able to draw up exact defensive plays. I simply cannot understand the complete lack of accurate information provided by the developer. At least provide an example of how it works "most" of the time.

If you rex I guess it doesn't matter much, but I don't rex.

[Ben E Lou]

This is more of an answer. In my scenario, I'm only referring to the RR rating that everyone is saying is used to determine the player who is double teamed. Based on what people say about RR and double teaming, you would expect a super TE with 100 RR would be the "best" receiver running a route.Well that's what you get for listening to "what everyone is saying." ;)

Like I said over at CCFL, my starting point in parsing this out would be RR * $position_group_weight, and I'd start with the weight that's used to determine the adjusted score vs. the raw score.

Look at KC's TE over there: http://ccfl.fof-belco.com/playercard.php?playerid=1468 87 RR and he gets doubled frequently. (First game I checked, 11 times: http://ccfl.fof-belco.com/html/log2018051308.html ) The difference? The best WR only has 50something RR. In the game you were talking about, the team with the 100-RR TE also had high-RR WRs (though not 100). Clearly it's not a one-rating calculation.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Another place to look at for position group weights would be the Grey Sheet. Just a quick look at a SP league has a 79/79 WR at 7.6, a 71/71 WR is 7.1, but an 85/85 TE is ranked below them at 6.8. Yeah, I'd assume FOF is using some similar positional weighting system, and the strategic takeaway from this is obvious: if you have a high-RR TE, you can protect him from doubles with a high-ish-RR WR.

[Dawgfan19]

This isn't in the help file, nor is it easily found in the abyss that is the forums. When you do find something... nobody knows anything for sure or its just wrong information. I literally had to laugh at how lost this is on the Dev as to how this might have lot to do with people not being attracted to the game.

Your question is addressed in the help file.


Two grades are given to each player. These are assessed by a representative of the league scouting pool. The Grade is a raw score from 1.0 to 9.9, used to estimate the player's ability to compete in the league. It is based both on an impression of the player's raw skills and the annual skills competition. The Adjusted Grade is the Grade, adjusted by the player's position to give some idea of when the player should be taken in the draft.

[Hammer]

Just sounds like a big mess to me. How are you supposed to write a gameplan if when you assign double coverage you don't know who you are double covering?

Defense is FOF8 is piss poor plain and simple. At least compared to the high standards we have been used to.

Offense is a work of art. We have great control, we are able to go in any direction we want. Use personnel as we see fit. Defense is just the opposite. Hard to believe it comes from the same developer.

[Mobarak]

Your question is addressed in the help file.


Two grades are given to each player. These are assessed by a representative of the league scouting pool. The Grade is a raw score from 1.0 to 9.9, used to estimate the player's ability to compete in the league. It is based both on an impression of the player's raw skills and the annual skills competition. The Adjusted Grade is the Grade, adjusted by the player's position to give some idea of when the player should be taken in the draft.


I'm talking about double teaming, RR and who the computer determines the player to be double teamed on a given play. I'm not talking about the draft screen, raw or adjusted grades in regards to when a player should be drafted. The information provided in the help file in regards to double teams mentions nothing about hidden ratings or WR being favored as "better receivers" than a TE with better pass catching bars (RR etc.). The point is, if you just read the help file, you would never be aware of any of this information, If you ask on the forums, you get incorrect or half ass information (most of the time). That's frustrating.

[Mobarak]

Just sounds like a big mess to me. How are you supposed to write a gameplan if when you assign double coverage you don't know who you are double covering?

Defense is FOF8 is piss poor plain and simple. At least compared to the high standards we have been used to.

Offense is a work of art. We have great control, we are able to go in any direction we want. Use personnel as we see fit. Defense is just the opposite. Hard to believe it comes from the same developer.

I agree, If you can't design exact plays on defense, then perhaps a little less hidden stuff going on to add some balance. Or maybe at least mention the hidden stuff in the help file.

[Mobarak]

In Front Office Football, double coverage is either on the opposing team’s top receiver, as assessed by the staff, or their second-best receiver. When viewing the play in your game plan, the double-team is shown as on the X receiver, but during games that double-team will be moved to the appropriate receiver, as determined by your staff.



There it is, the help file in all it's glory. Does this even scratch the surface of how the game/player actually determines who will be double teamed. Did anyone read this for the first time, and not need any additional information about double teams, totally understood it from the start???? rofl

[Ben E Lou]

I'm talking about double teaming, RR and who the computer determines the player to be double teamed on a given play. I'm not talking about the draft screen, raw or adjusted grades in regards to when a player should be drafted. The information provided in the help file in regards to double teams mentions nothing about hidden ratings or WR being favored as "better receivers" than a TE with better pass catching bars (RR etc.). The point is, if you just read the help file, you would never be aware of any of this information, If you ask on the forums, you get incorrect or half ass information (most of the time). That's frustrating.If you're looking for info that's not in the Help File, you can always write Customer Support. The FAQ does indicate that. But yeah, take with a grain of salt what you read from people. It's remarkable to me how many people will post things definitively when they're not sure. Over time, you'll learn who qualifies speculation and who posts speculation as fact. FWIW, I make it a point to qualify statements that I am not 100% certain to be 100% true virtually always. (Note that even then I said "virtually." :D) That way, when I do make a definitive and unqualified statement about something (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2983692&postcount=20), I'd suggest you take out your pencil and write it down. ;)

[Mobarak]

It would seem really simple to just make it so that if a TE runs a route, he is a receiver on the play and accounted for on the defense as an actual receiver. If he is blocking than that's exactly what he is, as he has both sets of bars for a reason I image.

[Dawgfan19]

OK, I understand now. You were initially asking about adjusted scores, which is a different topic than how the game engine determines the "best" receiver for double coverage.

IMO, if any game developer laid out every little detail regarding a game, the discovery process and fun of learning how to play the game would cease. I doubt I would ever play a game where there was a recipe for success defined up front.

Anyway, if you are interested in partaking in some minor discovery, this one is not too difficult. Study the game logs. Match the WRs and TE RR bars (those on the field during that play) and the DC best or DC second best scenarios. I am reasonably confident the game engine assigns the DC based on the receiver with the best RR bar. Disclaimer: this is based on watching a lot of Solevision - I have not set up test scenarios. Another interesting question: Are RBs included in the DC logic? Not sure, but I may test at some point if I ever get some time.

[Mobarak]

OK, I understand now. You were initially asking about adjusted scores, which is a different topic than how the game engine determines the "best" receiver for double coverage.

IMO, if any game developer laid out every little detail regarding a game, the discovery process and fun of learning how to play the game would cease. I doubt I would ever play a game where there was a recipe for success defined up front.

Anyway, if you are interested in partaking in some minor discovery, this one is not too difficult. Study the game logs. Match the WRs and TE RR bars (those on the field during that play) and the DC best or DC second best scenarios. I am reasonably confident the game engine assigns the DC based on the receiver with the best RR bar. Disclaimer: this is based on watching a lot of Solevision - I have not set up test scenarios. Another interesting question: Are RBs included in the DC logic? Not sure, but I may test at some point if I ever get some time.


This came after studying the logs and this is what I think is mostly true so far.

RR is used to determine the double team "close" to 100% of the time if its a WR. If a WR and a TE both have max bars (100 rating) on everything, but the WR has a rating of 95 RR, the WR will receive the double team even though the TE has a RR of 100.

Now assuming the TE is just a superior player with a substantially higher RR rating (and nobody has a clue what that margin might be) then the TE would be the one to get the double team. (all this assuming you are running a double best play).

In a lot of cases it's going to be pretty obvious who will be double teamed, but other times it's not. Because you can't have more control over this, it's exploitable (even if to a very small degree) by the offensive player who sets up the receiving core to shade his targets, and you simply can't respond to this well defensively.

[Ben E Lou]

I say again, if it's in the Help File and the info there is insufficient for you, Customer Support is an option. (And if you get some good info, share it here! ;))

[Squirrel]

Dola:

O/T but hey. What does dola mean? I've tried googling it but no joy.

It's everywhere in the FOFC / MP FOF world which I have inhabited for the best part of a year and I still have zero clue what it means

[Squirrel]

Mobarak, I'm going to have a go at putting numbers to this. I don't know if this is right, absolutely no idea, but just to try to help you figure it out.

I just pulled out a load of examples of WRs and TEs coming through the draft process and looked at their raw and adj grade in that process.

On average, for a group of WRs, the Adj grade was about 1.05 the raw grade. So a WR in the draft with a raw grade of 5.8 has an adj grade of 6.1.

Doing the same with a group of TEs, the adj grade is about 0.87 times the raw grade. A TE with a raw grade of 5.8 had an adj grade of of 5.1.

(don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I recall that these weightings are wired in as defaults in draft analyser, so if you look at that you'll probably see them there).

So if we take the position weights for WRs and TEs as 1.05 and 0..87 respectively, we can then go back to the example from earlier in this thread.

Ben said: 'my starting point in parsing this out would be RR * $position_group_weight, and I'd start with the weight that's used to determine the adjusted score vs. the raw score'

You said: 'Based on what people say about RR and double teaming, you would expect a super TE with 100 RR would be the "best" receiver running a route'.

I think the way to answer your point is this: If the TE has RR of 100, adjusted for the 0.87 weighting you'd get an adjusted RR of 0.87 * 100 so 87. A WR with RR of 87 / 1.05 = 83 would be viewed by the game as equivalently good, and might get selected for double coverage before the TE. A WR with RR above 83 would be viewed as better

Caveat again - I have no idea if this is right, I just wanted to help lay out the numbers as I've understood them from this thread

[Katana22]

O/T but hey. What does dola mean? I've tried googling it but no joy.

It's everywhere in the FOFC / MP FOF world which I have inhabited for the best part of a year and I still have zero clue what it means

Basically it means to post multiple times in a row or reply to your own message.

[Ben E Lou]

Back in 1999 or 2000, there were two categories of users: "Rookies" (I think) had less than 50 posts. At 50 posts, you became a "Grizzled Veteran." A user named "Dolamite" made a series of one-word posts replying to himself to try to get himself to "Grizzled Veteran" and that became known as "Dolaposting," which was eventually shortened to simply "Dola."

[Mobarak]

Mobarak, I'm going to have a go at putting numbers to this. I don't know if this is right, absolutely no idea, but just to try to help you figure it out.

I just pulled out a load of examples of WRs and TEs coming through the draft process and looked at their raw and adj grade in that process.

On average, for a group of WRs, the Adj grade was about 1.05 the raw grade. So a WR in the draft with a raw grade of 5.8 has an adj grade of 6.1.

Doing the same with a group of TEs, the adj grade is about 0.87 times the raw grade. A TE with a raw grade of 5.8 had an adj grade of of 5.1.

(don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I recall that these weightings are wired in as defaults in draft analyser, so if you look at that you'll probably see them there).

So if we take the position weights for WRs and TEs as 1.05 and 0..87 respectively, we can then go back to the example from earlier in this thread.

Ben said: 'my starting point in parsing this out would be RR * $position_group_weight, and I'd start with the weight that's used to determine the adjusted score vs. the raw score'

You said: 'Based on what people say about RR and double teaming, you would expect a super TE with 100 RR would be the "best" receiver running a route'.

I think the way to answer your point is this: If the TE has RR of 100, adjusted for the 0.87 weighting you'd get an adjusted RR of 0.87 * 100 so 87. A WR with RR of 87 / 1.05 = 83 would be viewed by the game as equivalently good, and might get selected for double coverage before the TE. A WR with RR above 83 would be viewed as better

Caveat again - I have no idea if this is right, I just wanted to help lay out the numbers as I've understood them from this thread

I can understand the adjusted rating part.. however the receiver getting the double team in that game "over" the 100 RR TE, had only 66 RR. That receiver would still get the double team, even when a third receiver with a "future" RR rating of 78 was on the field, with the TE also.

The TE was doubled twice in that game, both times it was a 1WR formation, and the receiver with the 66 RR was not on the field. (replaced by the receiver with the future RR of 78)

Another receiver comes on field (113 formation) with the three mentioned above. This guy has a RR of 67, 1 point above the receiver getting all the double teams, and he doesn't get the double team.

I get you on the adjusted grades part, and it would make sense if it were close.. but we are talking 100 to 66 RR.

[Ben E Lou]

I can understand the adjusted rating part.. however the receiver getting the double team in that game "over" the 100 RR TE, had only 66 RR. That receiver would still get the double team, even when a third receiver with a "future" RR rating of 78 was on the field, with the TE also.

The TE was doubled twice in that game, both times it was a 1WR formation, and the receiver with the 66 RR was not on the field. (replaced by the receiver with the future RR of 78)

Another receiver comes on field (113 formation) with the three mentioned above. This guy has a RR of 67, 1 point above the receiver getting all the double teams, and he doesn't get the double team.

I get you on the adjusted grades part, and it would make sense if it were close.. but we are talking 100 to 66 RR....which is why I called it a starting point. There could be other factors involved. Sounds like there are.

[Mobarak]

...which is why I called it a starting point. There could be other factors involved. Sounds like there are.


Of course, 2 WR's with higher current and future RR didn't get doubled over the guy with 66 RR. The obvious differences among just the WR's is the position drill and 40 time... The great mystery is the WR to TE double team..

TE- 100 RR, 4.48, 49 position drill
WR- 66 RR, 4.37, 50 position drill (double teamed every time)

[Mobarak]

A Position-Specific Drill.
Quarterbacks - their throwing accuracy and timing.
Backs - their blitz-pickup ability and their route-running skill.
Receivers - their ability to catch what's thrown in their direction and adjust to a bad throw.
Linebackers - zone defense and intercepting skills.
Defensive Backs - zone defense and intercepting skills.
Not all positions have a position-specific drill and not all tests are meaningful for every position.


Are we saying that the game doesn't recognize the TE as a receiver when on a route? That the game doesn't consider the position drill number and the applied attributes to a TE ?

[Mobarak]

A Position-Specific Drill.
Quarterbacks - their throwing accuracy and timing.
Backs - their blitz-pickup ability and their route-running skill.
Receivers - their ability to catch what's thrown in their direction and adjust to a bad throw.
Linebackers - zone defense and intercepting skills.
Defensive Backs - zone defense and intercepting skills.
Not all positions have a position-specific drill and not all tests are meaningful for every position.


Are we saying that the game doesn't recognize the TE as a receiver when on a route? That the game doesn't consider the position drill number and the applied attributes to a TE ?


I understand not all positions have a benefit from a position drill score. But the bonus applied to receivers , catching the ball and adjusting to a bad throw, applies to a TE as well.

[Ben E Lou]

Explosion maybe? *shurg*

[Mobarak]

Explosion maybe? *shurg*

Sure maybe, RR then 40time = the ability to get open (maybe position drill factors a little)