the SPURS are choke artists?

[bigdawg2003]

A 19-0 run says it all. GO SPURS!

[MrBug708]

Wow, Bigdawg must be half the people watching on TV. Neq is probably the other one

[SirFozzie]

They still are choke artists. Just that the Nets suck. West is Best, still, and the Spurs are lucky to be there.

[Neuqua]

Still grumbling that your Lakers couldn't get out of the 2nd round Bug?

What can I say, the Nets gave the game away. But I honestly don't feel as bad this year because David Robinson has always been one of my favorite players and is one of the few pure class acts left in sports.

He left on top, just as he deserved.

Congratulations San Antonio.

[SirFozzie]

yup.. props to the Admiral.

Now the spurs have the title, and can get off the OLLLLDDD train ;)

[Sharpieman]

No one can talk about how the Spurs choke anymore because they are the champs and that's all that matters

[SirFozzie]

Oh I still can, trust me, that's never stopped me before :)

The spurs basically backed into this championship. I would say it was the ugliest championship in history, but as we all know, it's just going to be worse next year.

[kcchief19]

Wow. I tuned in to the game to see when it would be over so I could watch Seinfeld and thought Jersey was going to salt this away. What a bunch of chokers.

I hope the rumors that San Antonio might make a play for Kidd is just that. There is something about Kidd I just don't like. He runs the point well, distributes the ball and can score, but I just don't think he is a "money" player.

Classic example was the other night when Duncan baited him to pull off Kerr for the double team and then Duncan kicks out to Kerr for the 3 that got the Spurs going. Duncan is a money player.

Parker is a fantastic guard. I think the Spurs need to get Duncan some help up front, especially with Robinson retiring.

[Sharpieman]

It was an ugly championship, but the Spurs still won it. They beat the Lakers and they beat the Mavs. Duncan was unstoppable throughout the playoffs and Finals

[Easy Mac]

I don't see why they'd make a play for Kidd. He costs you money and you lose a a21 yr. old point guard with potential. Go for J. O'Neal, he'll cost the same, and is younger, and you keep the twin towers, plus a 21 year old point guard.

That being said, it doesn't look good for Parker when he sat for the last 20 minutes. He started the series strong, and lucky for him Kidd sucked almost as badly.

[Vince]

I've heard rumors (even Kidd himself has said he'd love to play there) that Kidd might be headed to Golden State to replace Gilbert Arenas. I have three immediate thoughts about this...

1) No way in hell it ever happens.
2) Damn, he's pretty good...we might be a better team next year with him.
3) Man, why does it have to be Kidd that wants to play here?

I know he's good, and I respect that, but I can't stand the guy as a person. A huge part of me hopes that he comes to the Warriors so we can stay competitive, but a big part of me would also be sad that he represents my team...but it's all good, because it's never going to happen. So there.

Thus ends the only Warrior fan on the board's rant :)

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by Vince
A huge part of me hopes that he comes to the Warriors so we can stay competitive....

Stay?

[illinifan999]

I was really hoping Duncan would get 2 more blocks to finish out the quadruple-double.

[MrBug708]

Vince, didn't Kidd go to school around there? Cal right?

And congrats to the Nets, they won 2 more games this year then last year

[Kodos]

It was nice to see the good guys win for a change. Congrats to a classy Spurs team, especially Duncan and Robinson. Way to go out on top, Admiral.

Oh, and nice sour grapes, Lakers fans. I just can't understand why people hate your team so much...

[Kodos]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
Oh I still can, trust me, that's never stopped me before :)

The spurs basically backed into this championship. I would say it was the ugliest championship in history, but as we all know, it's just going to be worse next year.

They may have backed into a championship, but they steamrolled over the Lakers on the way. :D

[SirFozzie]

Uh.. Kodos.. you're not counting me as a Lakers fan, are you? That could be dangerous to your health ;) (Bleeds Celtics Green, and Red Sox Red during the season). If the Lakers made it to the finals, looked this awful, I'd be saying the same thing

[Kodos]

Damn. Should've quoted Bug then - a known Laker fan.

[SirFozzie]

Originally posted by Kodos
Damn. Should've quoted Bug then - a known Laker fan.

That's ok.. means I don't have to ask you who knocked the Dolphins out of the playoff picture last year (grins)

[Kodos]

I was glad they got knocked out! I hate Dave Wannstedt! Fire him! :D

[TroyF]

Backed into the championship?

Lets see, they tie for the best record in the NBA. They knock out the defending championships in 6 games, the team they tied the best record with in 6 games, and the other team in last years finals in 6 games. They finish with 27 road vicories in the regular season. (1rst) They follow that up with an 8-4 record in the playoffs on the road. To top it off, from January 1 to the end of the playoffs, they finished 57-17. (29-8 on the road)

That's what you call backing into the title? You want to tell me they aren't as good as some past teams, that's fine. You want to tell me they "backed in" to this, I'm not buying into it.

TroyF

[SirFozzie]

We can agree to disagree, Troy. The series was awful, and both teams did not play up to even the little amount of potential they have. I was watching the game and saying "God.. this is like a preseason game.." If a .500 team, plays up to their ability and can beat either of the FInals teams, then yes, they did back into it IN MY OPINION, AND MY OPINION ONLY. Your mileage may vary

[Anrhydeddu]

From Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post

NBA's boring product puts Thompson to sleep
By Mark Kiszla, Post Sports Columnist


SAN ANTONIO - Where have you gone, David Thompson? A sport with no shot, zero finesse and even less excitement turns its lonely eyes to you.

Commissioner David Stern will cringe hearing it, but he better listen to a scathing indictment of what a lousy excuse for entertainment his league has become. Although Thompson sat in a noisy arena's second row as a guest of honor at the NBA Finals, he had trouble staying awake.

Thompson - the former Nuggets superstar who perfected skywalking above the rim long before Michael Jordan laced up his famous sneakers - could describe San Antonio's title-clinching 88-77 victory against New Jersey in a single word: yawn.

"It's really kind of boring to see the game being played this way, to be honest with you," Thompson said Sunday. "This (championship) series has been pretty boring. When a team has trouble scoring 33 points in a half, that's pretty ridiculous. And I think fans of basketball don't like watching it."

Once upon a time, back in the day when the NBA allowed its stars to shine and a ticket was actually worth the price of admission, Thompson scored 73 points in a single game for Denver. All by himself. The date was April 9, 1978. A generation later, all the Nets together had trouble scoring 73 as a team in the good-riddance game of these Finals. Who could have foreseen such a troubling de-evolution of the sport? This could have been the ugliest, most offensive championship series since the NBA was defined by the St. Louis Hawks and men who could not jump or shoot straight.

How appropriate Game 6 was decided by a scoring drought. Illustrating all the grave concerns Thompson harbors about the NBA, New Jersey was stuck on 72 points for a yawn-inducing stretch of 5 1/2 minutes in the fourth quarter, when the Spurs went on an overwhelming 19-0 run, as the Nets looked on without a clue.

The Spurs and Nets were an insult to their colorful, red-white- and-blue ABA predecessors. The fun quotient in hoops has declined, because the game misses Thompson. They don't make pure scorers like him anymore.

"That might be part of the problem," Thompson said. "But it's also the style of play. Most teams walk the ball up the court and try to pound it inside, then kick it back outside for a 3-point shot. Nobody runs anymore."

No wonder television viewers were turned off by these Finals in numbers Stern should find start- ling. The only place a fan of the NBA can find a fast break on the tube these days is ESPN Classic, during a repeat showing of Magic Johnson leading those old Showtime Lakers.

In a scene all too familiar, coach Byron Scott of New Jersey and his Spurs counterpart, Gregg Popo- vich, could be seen standing stiffly in front on the bench with arms tensely folded, blocking the view of customers, as if the guys who call timeouts are what anybody in the audience paid to see.

Although the ability to connect the dots between X's and O's does not qualify NBA coaches as Mensa candidates, too many of them have become consumed by the same ego as those control freaks found on NFL sidelines. All this constipated, self-aggrandizing thinking is ruining hoops, a game that can be a thing of beauty if allowed to flowed naturally.

"Coaches get paid big salaries now. I think maybe they are trying to justify those salaries," Thompson said. "The coaches are making the game more complicated than it really is. This is a simple game: Put the ball in the basket."

All the blame, however, does not rest with conservative strategy or the ill-advised rule changes that have legalized zone defenses now devouring so much open space on the floor there is almost as much bumping of big bodies as can be found during the hand-to-hand combat of the trenches in football. But not even physical abuse can excuse the clunker of a Game 6 by Nets forward Kenyon Martin, whose 3-for-23 shooting from the field is doomed to be a contender as one of the most embarrassing performances in Finals history.

"Players don't shoot it as well as we did back in the day, I know that," Thompson said. "All players want to do is dunk or shoot the 3-pointer. They do not have the basic fundamentals."

The fundamental problem probably cannot be solved so long as the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft is a teenager who gets handed in excess of $90 million as a high school graduation present.

You and me and Thompson know the ugly truth. The best thing that can be said about the Finals? They're finally over.

Stern is scheduled to be in Denver today, to announce the awarding of the 2005 All-Star Game. But the shine is definitely off the sport.

For the love of the game, somebody should ask the commissioner how the NBA can get out of this slump and get back in the groove.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~107~1458100,00.html


"A sport with no shot, zero finesse and even less excitement"? Then the solution is to try more tricky dunks. :rolleyes:

[cmp]

Maybe some people have learned how to play defense?

I didn't think this series was boring. To me a boring game is a 120-100 blowout. Yea there is a lot of scoring in a game like that but what's the fun in watching it? I like watching close games and this series had plenty of them. I could care less how many points teams score as long as the games are close.

[SirFozzie]

I mourn for the lost art of the 10-15 foot jumper. I mourn for active basketball where everybody's always in motion.

I remember a thing earlier in the season. Sportscenter HIGHLIGHTING a play where all five players touched the ball in a row bang-bang-bang-bang-bag and they made a shot. Used to be you'd see that 10-15 times a game.

[SirFozzie]

Originally posted by gold101
Maybe some people have learned how to play defense?

I didn't think this series was boring. To me a boring game is a 120-100 blowout. Yea there is a lot of scoring in a game like that but what's the fun in watching it? I like watching close games and this series had plenty of them. I could care less how many points teams score as long as the games are close.

You try that with Dennis Johnson hanging on your keister. Or even Rodman. I don't mind close games, although highscoring close games are the best. It's I hate walk the ball up court, wait till 6 seconds are left on the clock, and then go one on one.

And it's not that folks have suddenly learned to play defense either.. all folks can do today is dunk or three-pointer. Nothing in between,

[Anrhydeddu]

SirFoz could not have said it much better. What he had said is the heart of how I come to hate the NBA.

[cmp]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
I mourn for the lost art of the 10-15 foot jumper. I mourn for active basketball where everybody's always in motion.



If you want to see someone hitting a 10-15 foot jumper then watch Rip Hamilton. He's one of the few he still shoots it and hits it consistently.

[TroyF]

SirFozzie,

I guees it's how you want to define "backing in" vs. a horrific series.

IMO, any game that doesn't involve Sacremento vs. Dallas is boring to watch. I could use many other adjectives to describe those games.

That doesn't mean the team that won backed into it. The Spurs did what they've done all season. They played a pretty ugly game of basketball, but made plays at the end to win.

Look at the Spurs statistics in the regular season vs. the playoffs:(1rst number always Regular season)

Average points per game: 95.8 - 94.9
Average points against: 90.4 - 89.3
Margain of Victory: 5.4 - 5.5
Shooting %: 46.2 - 44.1
Opponents shooting%: 42.7 - 40.4
3pt %: 35.4 - 35.1
Opponents 3PT%: 33.9 - 33.1
Turnovers per game: 15.4 - 14.5
Opponents TO per game: 14.4 - 14.5

Just doing some quick math on the Nets series alone:

Avg points - 87.6 for the Spurs - 82 for the Nets
Margain of victory - 5.6 points per game (does that number look familiar?)

Look, this is what the Spurs are. A .500 team couldn't have beaten them. They played the same way they did at every other point in the season. It isn't pleasing to the eye, but in the current NBA game, it gets the job done.

IMO, that isn't "backing in" under any definition. It's playing the game that works and sticking with it the entire year. Nobody beat them playing that game in the regular season, nobody beat them playing that game in the playoffs. Period. Ugly: YES Backing in? NO.

TroyF

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
I mourn for the lost art of the 10-15 foot jumper. I mourn for active basketball where everybody's always in motion.

I would guess that a big part of the reason why this art is gone is because of the 3 pointer. If you are going to take an outside shot, you might as well do it from beyond the arc so that if you make it you get the extra point. Otherwise, you should only shoot the inside shot that is much more likly to go in.

[SirFozzie]

ST: It's because you're going to MISS so many shots, you might as well hope they are three pointers so they go in. Shooting is down quite considerably in the past decade, even though the dunk as a percentage of points has gone up.

Which leads me to the other part of my thing. There were many open 10-15 foot shots because everybody was moving to the ball, getting open or a quick look. Now.. "All four of you go over here.. me and Allen here are going mano y mano"

[Neuqua]

See, I'm not sure I agree with all that Foz.

I'll take a team of athletes in this decade and be confident against a team of any other decade. While the style of play has changed, I think the players today are stronger, and faster than the days of yesteryear.

C: Shaquille O'neal
PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Tracy McGrady
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: Jason Kidd

Bench:
SF: Paul Pierce
PG: Gary Payton
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
PF: Chris Webber
C: Ben Wallace
PG: Steve Nash
SG: Allen Iverson

Call me crazy but I think those twelve guys (a list i just came off with off the top of my head) can make a series against any other 12 from any other decade. I really do think the defense is getting much better in today's game which is why you do not see the 110 point games any longer.

I'm not saying the NBA is in perfect condition, far from it. For every Grant Hill or David Robinson you will find a Rickey Davis. But for me personally, the NBA still provides the finest experience of watching the best players in the world, not just the United States, battling it out on one court.

[SirFozzie]

Late 80's early 90's.. this is just off the top of my head:

C: Ewing, Olaujwon
PF: McHale, Cooper, Malone
SF: Wilkins, Bird, Barkley
SG: Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan
PG: Isiah, John Stockton

Wouldn't sweep your crew.. but beat you in five or six, count on it.

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by Neuqua
See, I'm not sure I agree with all that Foz.

I'll take a team of athletes in this decade and be confident against a team of any other decade. While the style of play has changed, I think the players today are stronger, and faster than the days of yesteryear.

C: Shaquille O'neal
PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Tracy McGrady
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: Jason Kidd

Bench:
SF: Paul Pierce
PG: Gary Payton
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
PF: Chris Webber
C: Ben Wallace
PG: Steve Nash
SG: Allen Iverson

Call me crazy but I think those twelve guys (a list i just came off with off the top of my head) can make a series against any other 12 from any other decade. I really do think the defense is getting much better in today's game which is why you do not see the 110 point games any longer.

I'm not saying the NBA is in perfect condition, far from it. For every Grant Hill or David Robinson you will find a Rickey Davis. But for me personally, the NBA still provides the finest experience of watching the best players in the world, not just the United States, battling it out on one court.

I am not so sure that they would do as well as an all star team from the 60's 70's or 80's. Sure the list of players may all be great players, but so many of them seem to be me-first players that I don't think they would work well as a team. I really don't think that would be a problem with past generations of basketball stars.

IMHO that is the single biggest reason why I don't watch the NBA much any more. To much 1 on 1, not enough 5 on 5.

[SirFozzie]

ST just nailed it. Nash? Shoot first, ask questions later. AI? Shoot first, don't ask questions. Pierce? Shoot first, second, and third, don't ask questions.

(Now don't get me wrong, I love Pierce, but for the press to go googly eyed on him when he gets 7 assists in one game.. ugh)

[vtbub]

I don't like seeing blowouts either, I also think today's game is absolute crap.

There are too many teams and not enough talent.

Players are more concerned about their own numbers and less about the team.

Coaches do not teach basic fundementals, passing, dribbling. Watch a game and look to see how many traveling calls are NOT called.

Teams have one, maybe two, scoring options. All teams have to do is shut down option A and make the other 10 or 11 players beat you. That's not good defense, even though defense is played very well, it's bad offense. That ellipse 23 feet from the basket does not mean you cannot shoot in front of this line, but too many teams, Boston is a big part of this, take too many bad threes.

A good offense will work the ball around until they get the best shot available, whether it's on the break or with 2 seconds on the shot clock. Most of what I saw in the post season was the pg standing at the top of the 3-pt line waiting for 6 billion screens to play ourt and either a) shove it into the center to dunk or get fouled, b) jack up an awkward shot as the shot clock expires, c) force it to somebody who isn't capable of making that shot.

Hey, emphazize the team game. Many people won't care if it's 80-78 or 145-143, but as the ratings show now, the product on the court is bad and people did not watch in droves.

[SirFozzie]

BTW.. I suggested this to Neuq in IM, and I'll give y'all the same way to settle this like gentlemen ;)

remember how gentlemen would duel in the old days? or how hot stove discussions would go on for years? Well.. we can settle this like gentlemen ;)

Very simple

www.whatifsports.com - What if Sports Basketball. Build a reasonable team, and BRING IT ON. (Free too, I would suggest a paid league, but I know some folks don't have the $10 for a full season league)

[Neuqua]

Keep in mind that I selected those guys from this year only. Strictly 2002-2003.

Most of those guys haven't even reached their primes yet. Kobe's 25, McGrady's 24, Nowitzki's 26, Pierce is 26, etc. This team doesn't seem nearly as daunting right now possibly but by the time we reach 2010, I think my point might be a bit more clear.

So let's just wait :)

[Radii]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
Late 80's early 90's.. this is just off the top of my head:

C: Ewing, Olaujwon
PF: McHale, Cooper, Malone
SF: Wilkins, Bird, Barkley
SG: Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan
PG: Isiah, John Stockton

Wouldn't sweep your crew.. but beat you in five or six, count on it.

Cooper? Did you mean Worthy perhaps? (That's who I would have put as one of my PFs). I can't think of a cooper other than Michael Cooper of the 80s lakers, maybe I'm going brain dead though.

Also, I know many hate him, but a sharpshooter like Reggie Miller might have a place on a team like this.

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
BTW.. I suggested this to Neuq in IM, and I'll give y'all the same way to settle this like gentlemen ;)

remember how gentlemen would duel in the old days? or how hot stove discussions would go on for years? Well.. we can settle this like gentlemen ;)

Very simple

www.whatifsports.com - What if Sports Basketball. Build a reasonable team, and BRING IT ON. (Free too, I would suggest a paid league, but I know some folks don't have the $10 for a full season league)

However, I don't think that this would be a particularly good measure of who would really be the better team. The biggest beef that I have with the modern game is the lack of teamwork. Now I may be wrong, because I havn't actually checked out whatifsports.com, but I doubt that the game would take that into account. If the game really happened several of the modern players would likly not show up because they had been relegated to the bench, and they know that they should have been starters.

[TroyF]

A team of 80's players would destroy a team of current players. As has been said before, it's because it would be a TEAM of players. Not a group of individuals.

TroyF

[SirFozzie]

ST: It does have assists, which does include offense :)

Signups are up at http://www.whatifsports.com/x.asp?r=143254&u=/nba-l/gotime.asp?lid=10093.ptf=0

I would prefer "era" teams, but any one's welcome.. it's free..

My team is "That 80's team" and only has players from 82-88