ZFL Expansion revisited

[revrew]

With another year and another draft under our belts, the ZFL is even more prepared to face expansion than before. And with the additional 2 roster spots made available to each team, the possibility of expansion looks even more feasible. After reviewing the various proposals set out by current GMs, I propose we consider for next season the following expansion plan.

Please review the plan and discuss:

Expansion Proposal

I. Expansion Teams
A. Two Teams are brought in:
1. Cincinatti - GM'd by Shorty
2. El Paso - GM'd by JeeberD

II. Revised Schedule
A. Continued round-robin schedule, expanded to an 11-week season.

III. Expansion Draft
A. Current teams
1. Will expose to expansion any SIX players, regardless of age or ability
2. Will have their "losses" limited to THREE players
3. The scouted value (grade) of these players will be made known to the expansion GMs only
B. Expansion teams
1. Will submit ranked expansion draft lists (ranking all available expansion players) to commish Revrew
2. To save time and maintain rules restrictions, Revrew will conduct the expansion draft himself, alternating picks between Team A (to be decided by coin flip) and Team B, based upon submitted draft lists
3. Draft will conclude after 12 rounds, and results will be posted publicly

IV. First year draft
A. Four primary rounds
B. Draft order for each round will be:
1. All sub-.500 teams in order of poorest record
2. Expansion Team B (as determined by prior coin flip)
3. Expansion Team A
4. All current teams finishing above .500 in the previous year, in order of poorest record
C. First-round exception:
1. In the first round, the expansion teams will each be given a supplementary pick at the end of the round, first B, then A.
2. Thus, the expansion teams will have two first-round selections each, roughly selecting at #5 and #11 (Team B) and #6 and #12 (Team A).
D. Supplementary rounds
1. Unless there are trades, each expansion club will have 17 players following expansion draft and 4 rounds of rookie drafts
2. Following the regular 4 rounds, there will be 5 additional supplementary rounds in which ONLY the expansion clubs will draft, in order of B then A.
3. Unless there are trades, this will leave each expansion club with 22 players.


* I want to draw your attention to a few key points, and give my reasons.

Why have Revrew do the expansion draft? Because PMing or using the board to draft, AND to keep track of the 3-from-one-team limit would be lengthy, cumbersome, and confusing. The use of draft lists will move the process faster and ensure the draft rules are properly enforced. If the expansion clubs would prefer, Mrs. Revrew (a football enthusiast herself) could draft off one list for Team A, and I could draft of the other for Team B, or I could just do both.

Why only 12 expansion rounds?
Because if we did 15 or more, it would require us to up the 3-from-one-team limit. (Do the math...2 teamsX15picks=10teamsX3players)

Why expose 6 players?
With 5 players on the bench, most wise GMs will expose most if not all of their bench players and a much-aged vet or two. Given the quality of current teams, the only C+ or better players that will be lost in expansion will be 35 years old or more. No current team would be required to sacrifice a quality, young player. Unless expansion GMs desire elderly players, the likely result will be a few C level players, and several D level players drafted in expansion.

Why give the expansion clubs two first rounders?
In a league like this, with little surprise in regular-season outcomes, parity is important for maintaining league interest. Even with two first-rounders, the expansion clubs will still be far inferior to any current club. My only real question is if that's giving them ENOUGH. Perhaps we should give them 2 second rounders as well... The truth is, even teams like Fargo and Little Rock have 4 or 5 A rated players right now. Most teams also have 4 or 5 B rated players. The expansion teams under this proposal would be lucky to have 3 A and B level players, TOTAL. Only big time trading would prevent the expansion clubs from 0-11 and 1-10 records for several years. The Have and Have Not syndrome would be severe. Of course, this would encourage more trading in the league....(something I view as a GOOD thing :cool: )

[sachmo71]

Why not just create the Expansion teams rosters like you did for the core team when we began? I don't see why it has to be done with an expansion draft.

[The Afoci]

I agree with sachmo, just give them a team like you gave me, a team with old good players, but limited young talent.

But this is a good plan if we have to have an expansion draft.

[digamma]

Couple o' questions...

1. Will we know who has gone down with injuries or been called up to the NFL before the expansion draft? This seems like it could cut both ways. On the one hand, you obviously don't want to give the expansion teams too few players, but there is a chance that an existing team could end up losing its whole bench. On the whole, I guess we need to know this before making any roster protection decisions.

2. Will we see the draft board before making a roster decisions? I think there could be an advantage in this for all teams. I'm thinking specifically about older, more skilled players, who a team might be willing to leave unprotected if it thought it could get a suitable younger replacement in the draft.

Having asked those questions, I think the expansion draft is important to have. While selfishly, I would love to keep my roster in tact. I've been building it and making certain decisions based on strengths and weaknesses of my present roster, and losing three players would certainly hamper those plans. But, I like the idea that we have a set number of players in the league. It adds to the realism.

[sachmo71]

You mean like the realism of our kicking game? :D

Besides realism, why would we need to have a draft? I would personally love to keep my team together and see parity, and thus more exciting games. I think the league might be at it's best when the mathmatical formula moves into the background and we really don't know who's going to win a game.

[DolphinFan1]

I like this plan, Revrew.

[digamma]

Originally posted by sachmo71
You mean like the realism of our kicking game? :D

Besides realism, why would we need to have a draft? I would personally love to keep my team together and see parity, and thus more exciting games. I think the league might be at it's best when the mathmatical formula moves into the background and we really don't know who's going to win a game.

Good point. Though, I would like to see the mathematical formulas win out for the next couple of seasons!:D

[revrew]

Sachmo's idea is fascinating. Would save me a heckuva lotta work, too. It would also alleviate some of these prob's with parity that I fear in any expansion draft scenario that we've drawn up thus far.

As an important note, even Little Rock's roster is better than it was the first year. No team has gotten worse in the first 3 seasons; it's just that some have gotten "more better" than the others. If I used the same system for building the expansion clubs that I used for original rosters, the expansion clubs would still be in the lower echelon of teams in the league, but not the perennial cellar dwellers that expansion draft would create.

I hadn't thought of it, sachmo. Good suggestion.

I'd like us to discuss the relative merits of sachmo's proposal. IF it came down to a vote right now, I would vote for sachmo's above what I have above, so let's consider it.

If it would be helpful, I could post an unidentified graded roster against a potential expansion roster (using sachmo's plan) and see the difference. I could also calculate a theoretical expansion roster (given the revrew plan). We could compare all of 'em and see which one we think creates the fairest scenario. Would take some work....but I could do it. Interested?

[The Afoci]

I am for the sachmo plan! But show us both rosters, just for fun.

[sachmo71]

I too would like to see the rosters.

[tucker342]

I like sachmo's plan! But I would also like to see the rosters, if it's not to much trouble:D

[illinifan999]

I'm for sachmo's plan!

[Marmel]

Sachmo! He finally shows he is good for something around here.
:)

[NevStar]

Devil's advocate for sachmo's plan:

We have an established set of "superstars" at each position (e.g. at QB, we have Knoxville's "Thumbless" Jackson, Kid Gruesome, etc.) By just randomly populating the expansion teams, there's the chance we're devaluing these superstars.

Also, under sach's plan, how would the draft order work? I assume we can eliminate the supplementary picks? Would we put them #1 & #2 in the first round?

[DolphinFan1]

Yes for Sachmo's plan.

[JeeberD]

I don't care what plan is used as long as El Paso gets its team... :)

[revrew]

Originally posted by NevStar
Devil's advocate for sachmo's plan:

We have an established set of "superstars" at each position (e.g. at QB, we have Knoxville's "Thumbless" Jackson, Kid Gruesome, etc.) By just randomly populating the expansion teams, there's the chance we're devaluing these superstars.

Also, under sach's plan, how would the draft order work? I assume we can eliminate the supplementary picks? Would we put them #1 & #2 in the first round?

I can answer these. My thought is, under sachmo's plan, we create this concept where the expansion teams have hired "mercenaries" out of the NFL,CFL, NFLE. That would account for the sudden influx of new players. Some of the new guys would compete for superstardom with our current players. However, the number that would impress right away would be relatively few, because A. Mathematically, no "result outcome" is determined on the strength of a single player alone. Every star player is actually being helped by those around him. For example, the current league's best HB doesn't put up big numbers, because he hasn't the O-line and FB to help him out. Because the expansion clubs would be weak all over the place, their stars wouldn't have the supporting cast to shine right away. and B. Several players (CH-Tom Sanders, AQ Troy McClure, etc.) have already grown through progression beyond where any new player would come in at.

In summary, yes, there would be some new stars to get to know, but very few would fall into the elite right away.

Regarding the draft, I figured the new clubs wouldn't draft in the next draft, but would just jump in with full rosters for game 1 next season.

[revrew]

Example A: A current lineup

Okay. I've removed most identifying details. Here's a mediocre to poor team within the current ZFL, as I would predict them AFTER an expansion, and after the next rookie draft. You can see: 4 A, 8 B, 8 C, and two bench players with D ratings. Top teams have as many as 6 A players.

26 C+
27 C
23 A
23 B
32 B
26 B+
22 A+
22 B
23 B
28 C
25 A
22 A
22 C+
30 C
28 C
23 C+
32 B
35 B
23 D+
27 D+
20 C
36 B

If we didn't do expansion, but went with sachmo's plan, this team would be just slightly stronger than what you see here.


Example B: Expansion team--revrew's plan
Now, here's a potential expansion team's starters, projected through both expansion and rookie draft. In the rookie draft, they took an OT and DE in the first round, a HB in the second, a MLB in the third, a kicker in the fourth, and the rest are sitting on the bench:

K 21 C
QB 23 D+
WR 27 C
WR 25 D
OT 21 B+
OT 21 D+
OG 37 B
OG 27 C
HB 21 C+
FB 30 C

DT 23 D
DT 22 F
MLB 22 D+
OLB 22 D+
DE 24 D
DE 23 B
S 33 B
CB 23 D

Notice no As, 4 Bs, 5 Cs, 8 Ds, and one F among starters. It's a young team, but two of the Bs are 33+.

Example C: Newly created team--sachmo's plan
Lastly, here's a randomly created lineup, such as was given each of the original teams:

K 27 C+
QB 28 C+
WR 22 A
WR 33 A
OT 27 C+
OT 22 F
OG 28 C+
OG 25 B
HB 24 B
FB 30 B
DT 32 F
DT 24 B
MLB 25 B
OLB 30 D
DE 29 B
DE 29 D+
S 21 A
CB 24 D

Here there's 3 As, 6 Bs, 4 Cs, 3 Ds, and 2 Fs. This team is nearly equivalent in quality to San Antonio's year one squad--a high octane offense, and above average defense. (Now, I know San Antonio went 7-1 that year, but this team also got a pretty lucky draw of the rook cards). Nonetheless, you notice it's far inferior to Example A (a current mediocre to poor team) above.

Both Example B and Example C would likely go 1-10 or 0-11 their first year. But Example C (sachmo's plan) would likely achieve a reasonable measure of parity and competitiveness within 2 to 4 years. Example B (revrew's plan) would likely take 5 to 8 years to catch up to the league.

Incidentally, with NevStar's concern from earlier, that 22-year old WR on Example C would likely be a star in the league, especially since his QB and fellow WR are so strong. In a few years, that safety would likely be impressive as well. But again, this team drew the rook cards very well.

[JeeberD]

After looking at that, I would prefer Satch's plan. :)

[digamma]

After looking at it, I vote for sachmo's plan as well.

[korme]

just checking in :)

[korme]

I would prefer a 'classic' expansion draft, where I pick the scrubs off of other team's rosters. If we go sachmo's way, it does kind of show the unrealistic side, where did all these ZFL-caliber players come from? But whatever works, I guess.

[sachmo71]

I think both plans have merit. In either scenerio, creating a plausable scenerio would be very easy, and is just icing on the cake.

How about the teams were created because the new owners were able to offer more money to non-ZFL players?

Anything you could think of could work for either situation.

[Swaggs]

This looks too much like math.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
I would prefer a 'classic' expansion draft, where I pick the scrubs off of other team's rosters. If we go sachmo's way, it does kind of show the unrealistic side, where did all these ZFL-caliber players come from? But whatever works, I guess.


Who cares what you prefer. You will get on your knees and beg for a team, and just be thankful we give you one.


:)

[revrew]

Oh, oh, brutal.

Funny, but brutal. I like it :D

[korme]

Originally posted by Marmel
Who cares what you prefer. You will get on your knees and beg for a team, and just be thankful we give you one.


:)

*adds the LA Stars to his Teams who should be in a plane crash list. LA is the first team to be honored on such a list.*

[JAG]

Ah, it will be a fine week in the ZFL next year when LA and Cincinatti take the field for the first time. What's the current record for ejections in a game? :)

JAG

[korme]

CIN. CINN. ATI.

2 n's the second time, one t. was meaning to say that after reading rev's post, but JAG put me over the edge.

i guess you will all learn how to spell my team's city when you look up into the lights at the scoreboard and count how many points your team is down by.. :cool:

[DolphinFan1]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
CIN. CINN. ATI.

2 n's the second time, one t. was meaning to say that after reading rev's post, but JAG put me over the edge.

i guess you will all learn how to spell my team's city when you look up into the lights at the scoreboard and count how many points your team is down by.. :cool:

We're talking about Cincinnati here. I don't think we have anything to worry about. :D

[tucker342]

Shorty, are you going to enjoy being the Bengals of the ZFL:D

[korme]

ima love it

[MylesKnight]

Hey, what happened to the possibility of a Orlando, Florida entry with your's truly as the Head of Football Operations of the new Franchise?

Come on now, Football w'out Florida?

[JeeberD]

Shorty and I were the two leaders after the expansion vote before last season, so El Paso and Cincinnati will be the two cities to recieve teams whenever expansion is approved.

So sorry... :)

[MylesKnight]

I know Jeeber, no biggie.

I can't wait for that Central Florida/West Texas ZFL Rivalry somewhere down the road..

By the way, what are your thoughts on a Franchise Name of the El Paso Border Patrol? :D

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by MylesKnight
By the way, what are your thoughts on a Franchise Name of the El Paso Border Patrol? :D

Hmmm, not too shabby.... :D

[MylesKnight]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Hmmm, not too shabby.... :D

Hey, I try.. :D

That, or whatever is the trendy name for Illegal Aliens crossing over the US Border from Mexico.

[JAG]

Sorry Shorty, my financee's from Ohio (Columbus), you'd think I'd know how to spell a city in her state...except that she doesn't think much of Ohio (*ducks*)

JAG

[Marmel]

Rev.....

Please, please, please, please, please.

Please.

Make the two expension franchises:

El Paso - JeeberD
Cincinatti - Shorty (spelling intentional)


Please.

:)

[revrew]

Originally posted by Marmel
Rev.....

Please, please, please, please, please.

Please.

Make the two expension franchises:

El Paso - JeeberD
Cincinatti - Shorty (spelling intentional)


Please.

:)

Well, of course! How else would you spell Cinncinatti?

[korme]

oh this butchering has gone too far

The ZFL Originals: Millwalkie, Shikago, Sann Anntonyo, Pourtland, Albuhkerkee, Knocksvill, Birmingham (ok, how can you mess this one up?), Loss Anngelis, Littel Rokk, and Ohmahah.

[Katon]

Burrminghahm?

[sachmo71]

Or spell it the way it's pronounced by the locals:

"Bermanham"

[tucker342]

No, Birmingham is just so good, that you can't mess with the name:D

[revrew]

Here's another fun thing y'all can do while I'm gone...

Since we're nearly at the end of season 3, let's vote on expansion for season 4. Voting is open to the 10 current GMs and the commish.

Vote: A) Expansion, Yes OR No
B) sachmo's plan (bringing in El Paso and Cincinnati, 11-wk schedule, expansion teams built from random Rook card drawing, just as original 10 teams were created) OR Revrew's plan (stated above).


For the record, I vote:

A) Yes
B) sachmo's plan

[Coffee Warlord]

Portland Votes....Yes to expansion, with the Sachmo Plan. Even though I think the expansion draft would be fun. :)

[Marmel]

A) Yes
B) Sachmo

[tucker342]

A) Yes
B) Sachmo

[The Afoci]

A) Yes
B) Sachmo

[korme]

1) yes
2) revrew

[illinifan999]

1) yes
2) sachmo

[DolphinFan1]

1) yes
2) sachmo

[Marmel]

Originally posted by revrew
Voting is open to the 10 current GMs and the commish.





Hey shorty, what part of this did you not understand? :D

[sachmo71]

A. Yes
B. Sachmo

[korme]

Originally posted by Marmel
Hey shorty, what part of this did you not understand? :D

errr duh