Top Soccer......

[SunDancer]

Anyone give me a rundown, and a description, of the top soccer clubs in tthe world, but "country". It seems that they Premiership has a core of 15/16 clubs that are Premiership-level clubs.

[GoldenEagle]

I am not sure I understand your question.

Do you want the top teams from each league?

[MrBug708]

What country?


Fifa usually releases a list of the Top 25 clubs. Last year the Galaxy finished 25th on that list for 2 weeks

[SunDancer]

Ok, I give an overview. I mean top soccer teams in Europe.

Example
Top-Tier
The most prestige, richest soccer clubs who are always among the top of their leagues competing for a title and always play in Champions Cup with a real shot of winning. They can buy great players, and are a thrill (I get a thrill when I take my lower-to-top club in CM3 to play Manchester) to play. Teams on this list would be clubs such as : Real Madrid, Manchester United, ect...

then the next tiers......

[3ric]

http://www.eurotopfoot.com/clubgb.php3

[BreizhManu]

be careful this list is only based on results, not prestige, and event that way some teams should not be on it anymore (e.g : Alaves relegated to Spanish segunda) and some others could be on it (Olympique Marseille, good results this season, good prestige)

[tucker342]

Manchester United probably has the most prestige.

Galaxy was in the top 25 at one time? That's kind of surprising

[SunDancer]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
be careful this list is only based on results, not prestige, and event that way some teams should not be on it anymore (e.g : Alaves relegated to Spanish segunda) and some others could be on it (Olympique Marseille, good results this season, good prestige)

Yeah, I looking for a list based on prestige, deep pockets to be a championship contender.

[Easy Mac]

Remember, money doesn't always equal prestige. Here some money/prestige teams (forgive me if I miss something, this is memory)

England:
Man Utd
Arsenal
Liverpool
~Newcastle/Chelsea

Italy:
AC Milan
Inter Milan
Juventus
Lazio

Spain:
Barcelona
Real Madrid
~Deportivo/Atletico Madrid (third team changes often, sometimes drastically, i.e. Madrid)

Germany:
Munich
Dortmund
~Leverkusen

Scotland:
Rangers
Celtic

Holland:
Ajax
PSV

France:
PSG

Argentina:
River Plate
Boca Juniors

Europe:
Galatasary
Dynamo Kiev

[ice4277]

Just off the top of my head, I would think that the vast majority would come from Europe., and my list (not in order) would go something like this:

Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool from England; Real Madrid, Barcelona from Spain; Juventus, AC Milan, Inter Milan from Italy; and Bayern Munich from Germany would be in my elite tier of teams. Teams I would think of below these would include some teams from the leagues above, such as Newcastle, Chelsea, Deportivo, Roma, Lazio, Dortmund, plus top teams from smaller leagues such as Rangers, Celtic, Porto, Ajax, Spartak Moscow, Galatasaray, PSV, Olympiakos. Not a comprehensive list by any means but you get the idea.

[Easy Mac]

we think alike i see

[ice4277]

great minds think alike!

[Easy Mac]

stoppp!!!!!!!!!!!

[ice4277]

ok

[SunDancer]

It seems that the Premiership has about 10-14 "core" teams that have a mixture of prestige, top-level facilites, top-tier talent, a huge fan following with a club "brand name" worldwide and strong to rich pockets to fund it, and they are always a real competitor each year in the league, and are considered to be a real threat to any team in any league. Am I correct?

I put Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Leeds United, Chelsea, Newcastle in that group. Can you add any others. To me, I can only see two teams in Spain (Real Madrid and Barcelona), Italy (the Mila teams and Juventus), and Germany's Bayer. Is this true?

[MylesKnight]

Castel di Sangro (Italia) - Serie C2.

Read the Book if you haven't, The Miracle of Castel di Sangro.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by SunDancer
It seems that the Premiership has about 10-14 "core" teams that have a mixture of prestige, top-level facilites, top-tier talent, a huge fan following with a club "brand name" worldwide and strong to rich pockets to fund it, and they are always a real competitor each year in the league, and are considered to be a real threat to any team in any league. Am I correct?

I put Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Leeds United, Chelsea, Newcastle in that group. Can you add any others. To me, I can only see two teams in Spain (Real Madrid and Barcelona), Italy (the Mila teams and Juventus), and Germany's Bayer. Is this true?

The EPL is a fine league...maybe even the best in the world...but I think your list is very England-biased. I know I have heard La Liga (Spain's league) referred to as the best more often than the EPL, and Italy is right there. BTW, it's Bayern in Germany, not Bayer.

As for the 10-14 core clubs for the EPL, I don't know where you get that, but it seems to me that if you have already heard this, shouldn't you already know what the other teams are? Your list of top English clubs seems as good as any to me...all of the rest at one time or another have approached some measure of greatness, I suppose, and many of the Division I sides as well.

I think others prior to this have done a very good job of listing out the best known and respected teams in the top leagues already. Some good lists there, if that's what you're looking for.

Chief Rum

[BreizhManu]

Yep Spain is better than Sundancer thinks but there is less hype surrounding their clubs, there are still 4 top clubs : Real, Barca, Deportivo and Valencia and a few less known but of good level : Celta Vigo, Atletico Madrid, Betis Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao, Mallorca.

Same in Italy : Milan, Juve, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Parma.

So having Newcastle on your list and not Inter, Valencia or Lazio proves you're really EPL biaised.

Oh and Yes it's Bayern not Bayer, when you say Bayer you're referring to Leverkusen.

[MIJB#19]

Lesson 1 of Dutch football/soccer: Never mention Ajax and PSV without Feyenoord!

Anyway, if I had to define European elite, these clubs would qualify for the top 4 classes

European Elite
England : Manchester United, Arsenal {Based on European results and history, Arsenal does not belong here at all, though Arsenal is too good and presitge to have in the second class.)
Spain : Real Madrid, Barcelona
Italy: Juventus, Milan AC
Germany : Bayern München

European-AAA
England : Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Newcastle United, Chelsea, Aston Villa (I'm not sure wheter Newcastle, Tottenham, Villa and even Chelsea belong here, but they do have quite a European history
Spain : Deportivo, Valencia
Italy : Internazionale, Roma AS, Lazio SS (The Roman teams don't fit here based on the last season, but over the past 5-10 years do really do)
Germany : Borussia Dortmund
France : ??? (Olympique Marseille and Paris SG could qualify as the next team on the list; I bet the French FOFCers don't like me putting them lower)
Holland/Netherlands : Ajax

European-AA
England : Leeds United, Everton
Spain : any other Primera Division team
Italy : Parma
Germany : any other 1. Bundesliga team
France : any Ligue 1 team(if you want a competitive league in the world, even the NFL can't top this league; thank Breizh for correcting the league name.)
Holland/Netherlands : PSV
Portugal : FC Porto, Benfica
Greece : Panathinaikos
Belgium : Anderlecht
Turkey : Galatasaray (Not higher, I think Galatasaray is more of a hype then a true contender)

European-A
England : any other Premier League team
Italy : any other Serie A team
Holland/Netherlands : Feyenoord (it hurts me a bit to put them this low, as a recent UEFA Cup and a historical 'old CL' winner they should qualify for third class)
Portugal : Sporting CP
Scotland : Rangers, Celtic (although their fame is of two classes higher, I don't rate them that high, the latest UEFA Cup final was a huge fluke compared to the past 10 years)
Belgium: Club Brugge
Sweden : IFK Göteborg
Romania : Steaua Bucuresti
Greece : AEK, Olympiakos (despite Olympiakos being much better then Panathinaikos in recent years, Olympiakos doesn't quite have the European history)
Turkey : Besiktas, Fenerbahçe, Trabzonspor
Russia : ??? (maybe Lokomotiv or Spartak)
Norway : Rosenborg BK
Ukraine : Dinamo Kyiv
I think this list might misses teams from Serbia/Montenegro, Denmark, Poland and Hungary

[BreizhManu]

I would have put :

PSG, Marseille, Lyon in AA

Other French clubs in A, it's Ligue 1 (League 1) btw

in fact I really think you could swap A and AA except for some exceptions (Brugge, Steaua, Sporting, AEK, England, Italy staying in A, PSV, Benfica, Galatasaray, Pana staying in AA)

Tottenham and Villa don't belong to AAA, could be replaced by Porto and Valencia.

[MIJB#19]

Breizh, I guess we can agree that putting the top 6 in place is easy.
After that things get vague as biases differ per country based on own teams, recent opponents and teams being from "rival" countries.

Especially ordering teams that have performmed zero in the past seasons in European Cups, but dominate their nationwide leagues, and teams who keep advancing in European competitions, but hardly play a role in the national championships.
(Long sentance, hope it's read well...)

[Critch]

Originally posted by MIJB#19
European-A
Scotland : Rangers, Celtic (although their fame is of two classes higher, I don't rate them that high, the latest UEFA Cup final was a huge fluke compared to the past 10 years)


I'm not a Celtic fan, but they did knock out Celta Vigo, Stuttgart, Liverpool and Blackburn on the way to the UEFA cup final, so I don't think it's fair to call it a fluke.

As for comparing it to the past 10 years, I guess you aren't including Celtic knocking out Ajax from the Champions League last season, or Rangers beating the Dutch champions PSV home and away in 99/00? (4-1 and 1-0) :)

[SunDancer]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
Yep Spain is better than Sundancer thinks but there is less hype surrounding their clubs, there are still 4 top clubs : Real, Barca, Deportivo and Valencia and a few less known but of good level : Celta Vigo, Atletico Madrid, Betis Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao, Mallorca.

Same in Italy : Milan, Juve, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Parma.

So having Newcastle on your list and not Inter, Valencia or Lazio proves you're really EPL biaised.

Oh and Yes it's Bayern not Bayer, when you say Bayer you're referring to Leverkusen.

Thanks. That's why I was asking. All I really hear about is the EPL, the two top teams in Spain and Italy, and teams such as Bayern and Ajax.

[Katon]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
Tottenham and Villa don't belong to AAA, could be replaced by Porto and Valencia.

I definitely agree. Can't follow your (MIJB's) logic there, to be honest. Spurs and Villa have both been complete rubbish in the league for some time now, and they haven't been that impressive even when they do manage to qualify for Europe._Just to clear England up completely, Newcastle and Chelsea do belong in AAA. Newcastle have qualified for the CL three times in the past decade or so, and also finished second just before that was good enough to get in. Chelsea's record over the same timespan includes one Cup-Winner's Cup, two CWC semifinals, and an extremely impressive run to the CL quarterfinals, as well as perennial top six finishes.

I would also disagree with your decision to rank Ligue 1 and the 1. Bundesliga ahead of the Premiership and Serie A. With the exception of Leverkusen last year (and they seem to be regressing), the only German team that can seriously compete in Europe is Bayern. The French league has nobody who can seriously compete. The Premiership and Serie A, on the other hand, are Spain's main competitors for the title of best league in the world.

[MIJB#19]

Originally posted by Critch
I'm not a Celtic fan, but they did knock out Celta Vigo, Stuttgart, Liverpool and Blackburn on the way to the UEFA cup final, so I don't think it's fair to call it a fluke.
Impressive list, though I was referring to a time span of 10 years.
Feyenoord's UEFA Cup victory also went past some great teams (Borussia Dortmund, Internazionale) and also PSV, Freiburg and Rangers.
I put Feyenoord on the A list, just like Celtic and Rangers.

Originally posted by Critch
As for comparing it to the past 10 years, I guess you aren't including Celtic knocking out Ajax from the Champions League last season, or Rangers beating the Dutch champions PSV home and away in 99/00? (4-1 and 1-0) :) Oh c'mon, you can't just point out both teams worst results of the past 5 years.

Not so long ago (just 5 years ago), Scotland was ranked 26th on the UEFA coefficients list, just behind Cyprus...
That's based on a time span of 5 years... (http://www.mogiel.net/EC/ranking.php#1999/00)

[MIJB#19]

Originally posted by MIJB#19
(I'm not sure wheter Newcastle, Tottenham, Villa and even Chelsea belong here, but they do have quite a European history
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Katon
Can't follow your (MIJB's) logic there, to be honest. Spurs and Villa have both been complete rubbish in the league for some time now, and they haven't been that impressive even when they do manage to qualify for Europe.Good thing I predefined my concerns of both teams maybe not belonging there at all...

[MIJB#19]

Double Dola:
For the real freaks, I'd like to point out www.rsssf.com (http://www.rsssf.com/intclub.html#eur), at this site a group of hobbyists have created a huge source for European achievements.