Poll : Best QB of All-Time [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Darkiller

07-04-2003, 01:18 PM

"The" Steve Young is mine until someone else votes for him (C'mon guys !)

Well yeah Terry Bradshaw should have been in there but I had to put that Shuler guy somewhere ;-)
As for Tarkenton, I think it is questionnable of him being in the All-time Top 10...

what do you think ?

JeeberD

07-04-2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Jets80
Write in vote for Boradway Joe.

Don't you know that he's overrated? ;)

Anrhydeddu

07-04-2003, 01:28 PM

Montana got my vote (but Elway and Unitas was close behind).

Missing: Warner, Namath, Staubach

JeeberD

07-04-2003, 01:30 PM

I would have thought that Anrhy would have voted for Vick... :D

scooper

07-04-2003, 01:51 PM

It has to be Montana. He's the greatest, bar none.

But I wonder what ever happened to him after he left Notre Dame?

Havok

07-04-2003, 02:05 PM

tucker342

07-04-2003, 04:47 PM

Joe Montana

Blackadar

07-04-2003, 09:59 PM

Most people forget how good Tark was because the Vikes never won a Super Bowl. His stats were compiled before the 1978-1979 rule changes that changed QB stats.

Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1961 min | 14 | 157 280 56.1 1997 7.1 18 17 | 56 308 5 |
| 1962 min | 14 | 163 329 49.5 2595 7.9 22 25 | 41 361 2 |
| 1963 min | 14 | 170 297 57.2 2311 7.8 15 15 | 28 162 1 |
| 1964 min | 14 | 171 306 55.9 2506 8.2 22 11 | 50 330 2 |
| 1965 min | 14 | 171 329 52.0 2609 7.9 19 11 | 56 356 1 |
| 1966 min | 14 | 192 358 53.6 2561 7.2 17 16 | 62 376 4 |
| 1967 nyg | 14 | 204 377 54.1 3088 8.2 29 19 | 44 306 2 |
| 1968 nyg | 14 | 182 337 54.0 2555 7.6 21 12 | 57 301 3 |
| 1969 nyg | 14 | 220 409 53.8 2918 7.1 23 8 | 37 172 0 |
| 1970 nyg | 14 | 219 389 56.3 2777 7.1 19 12 | 43 236 2 |
| 1971 nyg | 13 | 226 386 58.5 2567 6.7 11 21 | 30 111 3 |
| 1972 min | 14 | 215 378 56.9 2651 7.0 18 13 | 27 180 0 |
| 1973 min | 14 | 169 274 61.7 2113 7.7 15 7 | 41 202 1 |
| 1974 min | 13 | 199 351 56.7 2598 7.4 17 12 | 21 120 2 |
| 1975 min | 14 | 273 425 64.2 2994 7.0 25 13 | 16 108 2 |
| 1976 min | 13 | 255 412 61.9 2961 7.2 17 8 | 27 45 1 |
| 1977 min | 9 | 155 258 60.1 1734 6.7 9 14 | 15 6 0 |
| 1978 min | 16 | 345 572 60.3 3468 6.1 25 32 | 24 -6 1 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 246 | 3686 6467 57.0 47003 7.3 342 266 | 675 3674 32

larrymcg421

07-04-2003, 10:26 PM

Bradshaw has a pretty piss poor TD-INT ratio. Not quite as bad as Namath's, but not impressive either. The Tarkenton list shows he liked to throw his share of picks too.

Blackadar

07-05-2003, 10:03 AM

Yea, but passing was much more difficult back then. The head-slap, allowing offensive linemen to block with their hands out and the elimination of the bump-and-run were 3 huge changes that opened up the offensive game. It's vitually impossible to compare statistics from pre-1978 versus post-1978.

Kodos

07-05-2003, 02:20 PM

Dan Marino. Plain and simple.

tucker342

07-05-2003, 04:10 PM

Hey Kodos, how many rings does he have:D

tucker342

07-05-2003, 04:13 PM

I'm just kidding Kodos, if he would have had a decent team around him he would have won multiple titles... but I don't know if you can be considered the best of all time if you've never won a ring...

condors

07-05-2003, 06:57 PM

i had to vote for sammy baugh

i am a sucker for nfl films and noone in his era was even close to doing the things he did he completely changed how offense and defense was played

SteelerFan448

07-05-2003, 09:13 PM

Dan Marino. I'm a huge Steeler fan and 4 Super Bowl rings can put Bradshaw up there, but he doesn't compare to Marino.

alterra

07-05-2003, 09:23 PM

I wanted to vote for Vinny Testaverde.

tucker342

07-05-2003, 10:34 PM

No way man, Steve Bono! Now he's awesome!

Anthony

07-06-2003, 12:41 AM

Dean Houston

Blackadar

07-06-2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Hell Atlantic
Dean Houston

It was only a matter of time...

:cool:

sturmie

07-06-2003, 09:48 AM

marino = best pure passer

montana = best winner

i went with marino, b/c montana did have a better supporting cast around him throughout his glory days.

sturmie

Blackadar

07-06-2003, 09:52 AM

I wonder why Elway isn't considered the "best winner". He won more games as a QB than anyone else in history.

PilotMan

07-06-2003, 03:10 PM

This isn't a poll, where's Kordell?

Blackadar

07-06-2003, 04:08 PM

On the Bears' bench. :)

cthomer5000

07-06-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by sturmie
montana = best winner

I think anyone who knows who Otto Graham is would argue with this - count me as one of those people.

MizzouRah

07-06-2003, 04:46 PM

If Warner was put on that list i wouldn't have even voted.

Im sorry, having 2 very good seasons doesn't make you one of the best of all times. Espically not when your in a system that is a quarterbacks dream. 3 burner recievers on turf with the best all purpose running back of all time.

And as much as i love Bradshaw, he's not in the top 10 either. i don't care if he got 20 rings

I would choose Montana, but Warner is almost right with him. Your statement is bogus, "Espically not when your in a system that is a quarterbacks dream. 3 burner recievers on turf with the best all purpose running back of all time." You mean to tell me Montana didn't have Craig, Rice (the best reciever of all time), and Taylor? That statement is laughable, thanks. Warner is the most ACCURATE qb of all time.

Todd

tucker342

07-06-2003, 07:15 PM

But he has only done it for 2 or 3 seasons so far.... while Montana did it for what, 15 seasons? If he continued to play close to how well he played his first two years for the rest of his career than I might include him in the top 15, but otherwise, no.

bigdawg2003

07-06-2003, 08:04 PM

DAVID CARR BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Oh, I thought it said "Who will be the Best QB of All-Time". Doesn't change the inevitable truth though.

Aylmar

07-06-2003, 08:27 PM

Best QB? Marino...no contest. Montana had great intangibles, and was a winner...but the Walsh offense (which also created Steve Young from a Tampa Bay washout) made him. While he played well in Kansas City, it wasn't nearly the same, at least to me.

Edit -- It is not my intent to bash Steve Young. I'm simply using him as an example of a guy who reaped great rewards from playing in a system that dictated a large percentage of his pass attempts be five yard slants.

GrantDawg

07-06-2003, 08:52 PM

Montana.

Blackadar

07-06-2003, 10:12 PM

Madonna. Oops, wrong poll.

detroit_fan

07-06-2003, 11:17 PM

Can I write in Dan Fouts? :)

Darkiller

07-07-2003, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Warner is the most ACCURATE qb of all time.

Todd

His career rating stumbled quite a lot last year.
I guess we will have to check back in 2-3 years to see exactly if he can remain #1 on the All-Time list, ahead of Steve Young.

Remember, Young cumulated that 96,8 career rating over a 15 year career....while, so far, Warner has compiled his stats over 4 years only.

and Young remains #1 with 112.8 in 1994.

I believe that's why, along with the issues of different "eras", people always mention "retired as the most accurate QB ever" because it is important to notice that the player achieved the feat over the whole course of a career..and that things change (rules etc.)

Darkiller

07-07-2003, 09:57 AM

By the way, my mistake, but instead of placing that butter-finger Heath Shuler as my "anomaly QB" in the poll, I should have inserted FOF Legend Brock Sheriff...

A shame I didn't think about it ;)

ColtCrazy

07-07-2003, 11:03 AM

One no one has mentioned that should be at least listed is Dan Fouts. No, not the best ever, but definitely a great QB.

I went with Elway. Montana was the best winner, but Elway was the best QB overall. passing, running, and he was tough. Some of the Denver teams of the 80s had no buisness going anywhere if it wasn't for him. Marino and Favre are not far behind.

Darkiller

07-07-2003, 11:15 AM

I love Elway, really do.
but not as accurate a passer as most people think.

again, we talked about it not long ago, his career QB rating is pretty mediocre for a QB of such magnitude.

(and before anyone screams at the QB Rating system, this is a tool that indeed measures passing efficiency)

condors

07-07-2003, 11:40 AM

i hate to differ with you on elway Darkiller

Elway would not look for a 5 yard completion in the 4th quater he would try to get a touchdown on 1st and 2nd down then worry about getting the first down on 3rd or 4th down, the short yardage passes Young completed are easier to throw accurately.

Elway routinely won games in the 4th quarter to say his isn't as accurate a passer is just crazy, watch him routinely on 3rd down thread a needle and get a first down, then watch him throw the ball 60 yards downfield and get an incompletion.

I think both are great QBs an both belong on an all time great list for debate but you can debate it

i still think sammy baugh is the greatest of all time though

for the record ron jaworski is the most accurate passer of all time for proof look at his statis pro football card :)

ColtCrazy

07-07-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by condors

for the record ron jaworski is the most accurate passer of all time for proof look at his statis pro football card :)

Which year? Look at Montana's 89 card and that's really good! :)

I agree, Elway doesn't translate as well to a stat sim, but he made the plays when it mattered. Everyone remembers the drive, but there was a playoff game in the early 90s against Houston where he pulled off great 3 and 10, 4 and 10 plays...after incompletions. He had a knack for winning.

condors

07-07-2003, 11:59 AM

ack i think it may have been 1983 player cards? i am not sure exactly but his completion numbers where the best in the game

tucker342

07-07-2003, 12:12 PM

But so did Montana.... Don't forget about The Drive against the Bengals in the Super Bowl, The Catch against the Cowboys, there are countless other ones....

If Elway was the best at making game winning drives, than Montana was a pretty close second....

clintl

07-07-2003, 12:24 PM

I agree - I think the only reason Elway had more 4th quarter comebacks is that the 49ers were better than the Broncos, and thus didn't need to come back as often to win. But Montana was just as good as Elway at comebacks when they were needed.

Montana had the best instincts and judgement of any QB I've ever seen. That's what sets him apart. Marino was a great pure passer, and Elway and Young had tremendous physical abilities, but they all made a lot more mistakes in critical situations than Montana did.

I think the jury is still out on Warner, but his durability has certainly become a question mark.

MizzouRah

07-07-2003, 01:07 PM

I'm not saying Warner is better than Montana, but fast recievers do not a QB make.

Todd

Darkiller

07-07-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by clintl
I agree - I think the only reason Elway had more 4th quarter comebacks is that the 49ers were better than the Broncos, and thus didn't need to come back as often to win.

bingo.
good point here.

That's something that's very biased and needs a comment :
Everyone marvels at "4th QB comebacks".

OK : fun to watch, exciting, great football games.

but what if you have THE better team, good enough that the other team can't beat you, can't get past you on the score and thus : IS NEVER AHEAD OF YOU.

I remember Steve Young joking about that one day, when asked by a reported about his not having a lot of 4th quarter comebacks on his resume (he has 10 I think) :

"Well, that's because when I'm in control, we're not often down in the game, we roll"

He was joking saying this but I'm sure he meant it ; rightfully so.
When you're playing well enough then you "don't need" a 4th quarter comeback to catchup the opponent. You roll past them.
That's what the 49ers did in the "80s with Joe and in the '90s with Steve.

detroit_fan

07-07-2003, 02:10 PM

ColtCrazy I suggested Dan D'Man Fouts a few post above yours.

If you go by stats and winning games, he could and should be considered when talking about the best who ever played the game.

alterra

07-07-2003, 02:50 PM

I actually voted for Brett Favre, and I honestly believe he is the greatest QB I have ever seen.

MIJB#19

07-07-2003, 04:11 PM

This 4th quarter heroics discussion.

Is a QB truely great to come back from behind?
Wouldn't it be much better to keep his team in the lead all game to avoid a nerve cracking and possible unaccomplished mission?

Just a thought...

On a side note, has this poll become the best attended poll so far at FOFC?

Sharpieman

07-07-2003, 04:35 PM

If you were going to take a QB in a big game who would you take Montana or Marino? Of course Montana, because he is the greatest of all time.

Blackadar

07-07-2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Sharpieman
If you were going to take a QB in a big game who would you take Montana or Marino? Of course Montana, because he is the greatest of all time.

Um...Elway or Roger Staubach

Darkiller

07-08-2003, 04:33 AM

I'd love to hear some comments on the "4th quarter heroics" thing just discussed ...

condors

07-08-2003, 06:22 AM

i don't understand how 4th quater comebacks can be held against elway marino etc for the record Montana has a bunch of them as well

In fact it very well could be looked at if things aren't going steve young's way he folds like a cheap hooker who got punched by a fat guy.

How many 4th quater combacks did he lead in tampa bay? Can't say he was always in control, He had a 65.5 qb rating throwing 13 ints and 8 tds 8TDS starting 14 games that won't get the chicks, there is a very good case he is a product of the system and have a great supporting cast then he himself being considered great. Jeff Garcia has put up numbers Joe Monatana put up numbers Steve Young put up numbers since bill walsh has become involved in the 49ers passing game every starting quaterback puts up numbers when given the chance.

like i said i don't believe steve young is just a product of the system but he did get his but kicked in tampa bay and did nothing about it

Darkiller

07-08-2003, 07:06 AM

that's right.
but that was 1985 - 1986 and he was a VERY young and raw QB.
Sorry but bashing Young for his first two seasons in the league -and even though it was with the Bucs-, when he ended up playing for a grand total of 15 years (of a Hall of Fame career) is misleading and I would say, unfair.

(for the record, as you mentionned condors, he started ONLY 14 games in two years, not your regular 32 games so that's not a lot to judge)

condors

07-08-2003, 09:23 AM

didn't marino lead his team to the super bowl in his 2nd year?

steve young was a good qb but he wasn't the best

didn't young play in the usfl then go to the nfl ?

he wasn't that young he just wasn't that good yet

tucker342

07-08-2003, 09:27 AM

You can't really judge him based on the first two years of his career. Almost every player struggles their first year, Jerry Rice struggled, and don't forget about Elway, who had alot of problems in his first year...

condors

07-08-2003, 10:00 AM

he played in the usfl before the nfl so it was like after his 4th season

alot of people on this board said Payton Manning was washed up after his 4th season in the league is it too soon to tell or is it he ended up with the best possible qb situation for a qb learn from bill walsh and joe montana for years then play with jerry rice and john taylor etc

Abe Sargent

07-08-2003, 10:29 AM

What!?!?! No option for Mark Brunell.

Of course, next year the greatest QB of all time will be Byron Leftwich.

-Anxety

Darkiller

07-08-2003, 10:38 AM

Young graduated from BYU in 1983 and played 1 season (1984) in the USFL so he was exactly 24 years old when he joigned the Bucs in 1985...to me that's not very old, especially after that one year of USFL "experience" (if we can call it like this) under his belt.

He rejoigned the 49ers in 1987 (26 years old) and made plays right away (41-0 trouncing of the Bears on Monday Night Football, in sub of an injured Montana, ask Mike Ditka what he thinks of Young...)

so at 26 he was very good. That's still young and shows he "had it" right away.

condors

07-08-2003, 11:16 AM

you throw out his 1st season in the usfl and his 2nd as well
his 1st with the buccs doesn't count for what reason i am not sure

but hey when he came off the bench for the 49ers one game he was great

then he went right back to the bench where he belonged as he was not better than your average joe where he sat

if you want to say 1984 thru 1990 he was learning fine but the fact remains he didn't do much of anything for 7 seasons in the usfl and nfl except be considered the best "backup" qb

strait8

07-08-2003, 11:16 AM

Quaterback is such a different position. There are physically gifted QB's like Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Jim kelly who were blessed with great mechanics and were marvellous in regular season, but not in playoffs.

Then there are guys who just find ways to win games. I think there are only three who are both Physically gifted and winners
Elway Favre, and Young.

Then there are the winners. Guys who just beat you. Joe Montana leads this group along with johnny U.

Another guy in this mold is Doug Flutie. When he played in Canada he made every game winnable for his team. He did the same in Buffalo. Too bad it was so late in his career.

To me the greatest Qb was Joe Montana because he always was the tangible winner. He is followed by a guy who played in the CFL of the same mold. His name was Jackie Parker a remarkable QB who could bring teams back from 20-30 point deficits to win.

Darkiller

07-08-2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by condors

if you want to say 1984 thru 1990 he was learning fine but the fact remains he didn't do much of anything for 7 seasons in the usfl and nfl except be considered the best "backup" qb

Well, honestly he didn't really get his chance to be the full time starter at that time...
but when he was in there (1987-1990) either as a starter for a few games, or as a backup : he always did the most out of the opportunity.
so yes, he was indeed the "best backup" at the time...but at this time, with no free agency, you could "groom" a player for some years (something undoable now). A young Steve Young in 2003 wouldn't last more than 2 years behind a 2003 Montana : he would be traded of would leave via free agency.

That is to say that, although it was HIS choice to stay with the Niners during those 4 years -and I'm glad he did so- he would not have escaped somewhere else, even if he had wanted to because the Niners didn't allow it to happen.
He was FORCED to remain Joe's backup because the team knew he would take over at some point. It was just a matter of time. (again, a luxury that today's NFL teams can't afford).

the best backup QB at that time ? yes...but only because he had to. In reality, he was already much ready to start for any team in the league.

condors

07-08-2003, 12:14 PM

well i am finkle but i want the best qb of all time to do a little more than have 3 bad years and 4 years of being a backup in order to be considered in his first 7 seasons

Fritz

07-08-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by condors
well i am finkle but i want the best qb of all time to do a little more than have 3 bad years and 4 years of being a backup in order to be considered in his first 7 seasons

ray finkle?

If it wasn't for you Marino would have his ring!

detroit_fan

07-08-2003, 02:06 PM

Fritz, you are too funny.

Havok

07-08-2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by MizzouRah
I would choose Montana, but Warner is almost right with him. Your statement is bogus, "Espically not when your in a system that is a quarterbacks dream. 3 burner recievers on turf with the best all purpose running back of all time." You mean to tell me Montana didn't have Craig, Rice (the best reciever of all time), and Taylor? That statement is laughable, thanks. Warner is the most ACCURATE qb of all time.

Todd

hehe.... you think what i said is laughable, but you called Kurt Warner "The most ACCURATE QB of all time."

Now thats laughable.

ColtCrazy

07-08-2003, 04:43 PM

Yeah Detroitfan, I saw the Fouts comment after I had already posted. Glad to see someone else appreciates Fouts.

Peyton Manning will end up on this list eventually, but I have a feeling he'll be in the Marino, Fouts, Kelly group. Great numbers, no ring.
It's a fun debate, but it's hard to say who is the best. Depends on your perspective.

Another fun debate are QBs not in the hall, and whether they should be. Think of the 2nd tier guys that were very good. Top that list with Phil Simms. Or how about Ken Stabler, Boomer Esiason, Jim Plunkett. Dave Krieg is interesting...over 250 career TDs and a helluva long career.

Darkiller

07-08-2003, 05:15 PM

Yeah I'd love to know more about Dave Krieg : his numbers are higly impressive but since I only saw him play towards the end of his career, I must admit that to me, his name doesn't mean much.

Most of the few games I did see him play, well : he was pretty pathetic. And you had troubles believing this guy hung so long in the league...

Did he ever lead a team to the Playoffs ? if so when ? What are the best things he accomplished ?

clintl

07-08-2003, 05:16 PM

Jim Plunkett threw some of the ugliest passes that I have ever seen thrown by a QB, but he got the job done after the Raiders acquired him. I think of him as being among QBs what Kirk Rueter is among pitchers. It wasn't always pretty, and I definitely don't think he was a HOFer, but I have a lot of respect for Plunkett as a player.

condors

07-09-2003, 05:26 AM

i think dave kreig, is like joe montana without talent around him he was an awsome short accurate passer if the seahawks could have gotten a complete team he would have been a household name He didn't have a cannon for an arm, wasn't very mobile but he took advantage of everything the defense would give him.

can't call him an all time great though because he didn't win anything and was not able throw the deep out