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Scholes

07-14-2003, 07:25 AM

Is there anyone that can match the Minnesota Vikings for sheer ineptness?

Let's take the last few seasons:

Starting with my favorite, the draft of a complete psychopath (Dimitirus Underwood) in the second round of the draft a few seasons ago.

#1 pick Bryant McKinnie holds out for 3/4 of the season after a draft-day mishap.

Their thoughtless and careless manner in which they dealt with the whole Korey Stringer tragedy.

Their star running-back (Robert Smith) retires a good 4 seasons early.

Randy Moss runs over a traffic cop.

Chris Walsh gets a DWI after he is found parked in the middle of the street, car running, sleeping.

Although I don't think it's a bad move, many say hiring George O' Leary wasn't the greatest thing to do.

A few Vikings are implicated in a sexual assault case over the winter at a Vikings sponsored charity event.

Another draft day debacle as Mike Tice is soundly booed at the team's facility after falling to the number 9 pick.

Michael Bennett is probably out for the season because of the rehab program the team put him on. (Some say that he hurt his foot playing basketball though)

Byron Chamberlain is suspended four games for use of ephedra.

And Red McCombs continually holds the state and city hostage, threatening to move anywhere that will take him and his band of buffoons, despite 54 straight sellouts.

Rant over.

scooper

07-14-2003, 07:30 AM

Insert Bengals joke here.

Bee

07-14-2003, 07:57 AM

Despite everything you've listed, the Vikings wouldn't even make my top 10 worst franchises in sports.

Subby

07-14-2003, 08:38 AM

Taking each of your items point by point:

Underwood: He was a first rounder, not a second rounder. Not the first time a first rounder has busted. If you judge franchise ineptness on picking spectacular first-round busts, all NFL franchises would be inept.

McKinnie: Hold-outs happen. He is there now and gives the Vikes one of the best offensive linemen in the league. Considering how much of a crapshoot the draft is, I would look at the McKinnie thing as a "glass half full" item.

Stringer: I guess I need more information on this one, as I never was under the impression that this was handled poorly on their part.

Robert Smith: How does his decision to retire have anything to do with the franchise?

Randy Moss: Athlete gets in trouble with the law. Yawn.

Chris Walsh: See above.

George O'Leary: You don't think it was a bad move, but others say it wasn't the greatest thing. Huh? The guy is a proven coach. He got hired by Notre Dame and was a success at Ga Tech. This was a steal for them.

Sexual Assault case: Implicated. Not found guitly, correct? I guess I need more information.

Bennet injury: Pure speculation on your part.

Chamberlain ephedra ban: Yeah well...he isn't the second coming of Jeremy Shockey. He made a mistake...

Red McCombs: Ok, finally something I agree with....McCombs is acting like an assbag.

Anyway, when it is all said and done, your rant has proven that while unlucky, the Vikings are pretty similar to any other professional sports franchise. Your assertion that they are the worst franchise in sports is ludicrous...

DeToxRox

07-14-2003, 08:53 AM

Forget the Bangles, the worse franchise in sports are the Clippers.

At least the Bengals were good in the 80's.

ice4277

07-14-2003, 08:56 AM

Not to mention, Minnesota has been pretty decent on the field for the last 7-8 years. There's no way you can say a team is one of the worst in sports purely for off-field stuff.

DeToxRox

07-14-2003, 09:03 AM

"There's no way you can say a team is one of the worst in sports purely for off-field stuff."

Eh, I beg to differ. The Portland Trail Blazers come to mind.

Honolulu_Blue

07-14-2003, 09:33 AM

The Detroit Lions have won ONE, yes ONE, play-off game since 1957. ONE play-off game in 47 years. ONE. The Vikings have been to Super Bowls. Even the freakin' Bengals went to Super Bowls. The closest the Lions came was in what, 1991/1992(?) where they got OBLIDERATED by the Redskins in the NFC Championship game.

There is no reason to debate this issue any further.

cthomer5000

07-14-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
The Detroit Lions have won ONE, yes ONE, play-off game since 1957. ONE play-off game in 47 years. ONE. The Vikings have been to Super Bowls. Even the freakin' Bengals went to Super Bowls. The closest the Lions came was in what, 1991/1992(?) where they got OBLIDERATED by the Redskins in the NFC Championship game.

There is no reason to debate this issue any further.

I would be ready any day to argue the Racine/Chicago/St. Louis/Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals as the worst franchise in sports history.

I playoff win in last 60 years, and I think 2 playoff wins total in like 80 years. Incredibly cheap owner, and an abysmal lack of talent for an incredibly long period of time.

Ksyrup

07-14-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Subby
Taking each of your items point by point:

Underwood: He was a first rounder, not a second rounder. Not the first time a first rounder has busted. If you judge franchise ineptness on picking spectacular first-round busts, all NFL franchises would be inept.

McKinnie: Hold-outs happen. He is there now and gives the Vikes one of the best offensive linemen in the league. Considering how much of a crapshoot the draft is, I would look at the McKinnie thing as a "glass half full" item.

Stringer: I guess I need more information on this one, as I never was under the impression that this was handled poorly on their part.

Robert Smith: How does his decision to retire have anything to do with the franchise?

Randy Moss: Athlete gets in trouble with the law. Yawn.

Chris Walsh: See above.

George O'Leary: You don't think it was a bad move, but others say it wasn't the greatest thing. Huh? The guy is a proven coach. He got hired by Notre Dame and was a success at Ga Tech. This was a steal for them.

Sexual Assault case: Implicated. Not found guitly, correct? I guess I need more information.

Bennet injury: Pure speculation on your part.

Chamberlain ephedra ban: Yeah well...he isn't the second coming of Jeremy Shockey. He made a mistake...

Red McCombs: Ok, finally something I agree with....McCombs is acting like an assbag.

Anyway, when it is all said and done, your rant has proven that while unlucky, the Vikings are pretty similar to any other professional sports franchise. Your assertion that they are the worst franchise in sports is ludicrous...

My thoughts exactly. How does a 1st round bust, a holdout, an early retirment, and a few off-field situations demonstrate that a franchise is inept? The only things you have listed that touch on the franchise is the owner's actionsand the Stringer incident, which I haven't heard anything about aside from the allegations in the family's complaint. Even if taken as true, I don't know that they show the franchise as inept.

cthomer5000

07-14-2003, 10:01 AM

Why the Cardinals really suck
took them 28 years to make the playoffs for the first time
made the playoffs in consecutive years ('47, '48) and then went 26 years before making them again
after '74 and '75 went 8 years before making playoffs again.
after '83, went 16 years before making playoffs again.
in 1999, won their first playoff game in 52 years.
in 83 years, have made the playoffs just 6 times.
in 83 years, have won just 2 playoff games.
Bidwell family constantly re-defines cheap.

sachmo71

07-14-2003, 10:16 AM

Hershal Walker trade?

Go Cowboys.

GrantDawg

07-14-2003, 10:19 AM

O'Leary (though it pains me to say it) is a pretty good coach. That is as long as you don't need him to be honest or help anyone graduate.

scooper

07-14-2003, 10:21 AM

The Vikes are a typical franchise. They have their ups, they have their downs. They are competetive and have had some recent playoff success. If anything, I'd put them in the upper half of sports franchises, not in the elite, but definately upper half.

VPI97

07-14-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by cthomer5000
made the playoffs in consecutive years ('47, '48)
after '74 and '75 The Falcons have never had back-to-back winning seasons...

...and we drafted Aundray Bruce with the #1 pick in '88

SteelerFan448

07-14-2003, 10:45 AM

Arizona. They lost their best player with no effort to retain him (David Boston). Then the first round this year they take two second round guys. At least the Bengals have enthusiasm if nothing else with Marvin Lewis. The Cardinals have nothing to look forward to.

TroyF

07-14-2003, 11:00 AM

I agree with what has been said. The Vikings wouldn't make my top 20 list of worst pro franchises. They wouldn't crack the top 8 for just football teams.

TroyF

tucker342

07-14-2003, 11:06 AM

Not even close to the most inept football team. Cardinals easily take that one

Iceberg

07-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Washington Wizards

Well lets start with the fact that they gave into political correctness and changes their name from the bullets meanwhile adopting some of the ugliest uniforms in the NBA.

Kwame Brown...nuff said

Tom Gougliotta and 3 1st round picks for Chris webber

Chris Webber for the elderly duo of Mitch Richmond and Otis Thorpe

CWebb gets busted with pot

Raheed Wallace for...What did we get for 'Sheed anyways?

Getting rid of Ben Wallace for next to nothing

Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse

Jerry Stackhouse gets arrested for assualt

going through years of cellar dwellin gand still managing to always have salary cap problems

ColtCrazy

07-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Didn't a recent poll already put the Clippers on this throne?

But if you are talking recently....
Since the death of the great Paul Brown, the Bengals would have to be the tops. They went 9-7 the year following his death (90) and won the division. Since then, they've never had a winning record and have drafted such future HOFers as David Klingler and Akili Smith.

Of course this all goes around. Through the 80s, the team with the worst record in the NFL was the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Darkiller

07-14-2003, 11:31 AM

I'm not too familiar with the MLB and the NHL to nominate any team.

I would say, the Clippers and the Warriors (my team..) are pretty pathetic in the NBA, at least for the past few years.

AND IN THEN NFL :

well you have to consider the cincinnati Bengals BUT they have played in two SuperBowls in the '80s so they have tasted success...

You have to consider the Cardinals (Phoenix, Saint Louis, Arizona, whatever)...their history might be worthless than the Bengals'.

You CANNOT consider the Vikings because -aside from everything- they have 4 NFC titles...and that is quite a feat in itself.

you COULD have considered the 49ers some 25 years ago because before Walsh came in we were pereonnial dormats (although a few good years with Brodie but always losers to the Cowboys/Lions) and some great teams in the 50's with J.J Johnson, Hugh McElhenny, YA Tittle, Joe Perry but still..no championships.)

If you put away the last 5 years, the Buccaneers would have been considered for "worthless NFL franchise"...

OK then, at least for now, my vote goes to either the Bengals or the Cardinals.

cmp

07-14-2003, 11:50 AM

tucker342

07-14-2003, 11:54 AM

The worst franchise in the NFL in the '90s is probably the Bengals.
The worst franchise in the NFL in the '80s was probably the Bucs.
The worst franchise overall in the NFL would probably be the Cardinals.

sachmo71

07-14-2003, 11:54 AM

And again the Saints are forgotten. :(

clintl

07-14-2003, 12:27 PM

I don't think any thread of all-time worst sports franchises would be complete without mentioning the NHL's California Golden Seals. The Seals fired their first GM before the expansion draft, suffered through numerous incompetent owners, and in 9 years in Oakland, posted the following records:

1967-68: 15-42-17
1968-69: 29-36-11
1969-70: 22-40-14
1970-71: 20-53-5
1971-72: 21-39-18
1972-73: 16-46-16
1973-74: 13-55-10
1974-75: 19-48-13
1975-76: 27-42-11

Then, after failing to get a new arena built for them in San Francisco, they moved to Cleveland, and folded two years later.

California Golden Seals (http://www.sealshockey.com/seasons.html)

SplitPersonality1

07-14-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by sachmo71
And again the Saints are forgotten. :(

Not forgotten. We are discussing the NFL. :D

Darkiller

07-14-2003, 12:44 PM

That's right, we forgot to mention the Saints and their Playoff futility...

Kodos

07-14-2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by ColtCrazy
Didn't a recent poll already put the Clippers on this throne?

But if you are talking recently....
Since the death of the great Paul Brown, the Bengals would have to be the tops. They went 9-7 the year following his death (90) and won the division. Since then, they've never had a winning record and have drafted such future HOFers as David Klingler and Akili Smith.

Of course this all goes around. Through the 80s, the team with the worst record in the NFL was the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Indeed one did. Here's the link to the Futility Bowl Championship Thread. (http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8173)

Anrhydeddu

07-14-2003, 01:00 PM

Team records up to 1999:

http://www.geocities.com/~jrbeasley/dallas/franchise.htm

Can anyone find a more up-to-date list?

JeeberD

07-14-2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
The Detroit Lions have won ONE, yes ONE, play-off game since 1957. ONE play-off game in 47 years. ONE.

Damn those 1991 Cowboys and their inneptitude. The Lions kicked the crap out of them in the playoffs that year...

VPI97

07-14-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Can anyone find a more up-to-date list? <table border=1 cellspacing=1> <tr height=17 align=center><td width=148></td><td width=49></td><td width=20></td><td colspan=10 width=267>All-Time</td><td width=41</td><td colspan=10 width=280>Record Since 1966 - Super Bowl I</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td></td><td>Enter</td><td></td><td colspan=4>Regular Season</td><td></td><td colspan=5>Playoffs</td><td></td><td colspan=4>Regular Season</td><td></td><td colspan=5>Playoffs</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td>Team Name</td><td>League</td><td></td><td>W</td><td>L</td><td>T</td><td>Pct.</td><td></td><td>Yrs</td><td>W</td><td>L</td><td>Pct.</td><td>Ch.</td><td></td><td>W</td><td>L</td><td>T</td><td>Pct.</td><td></td><td>Yrs</td><td>W</td><td>L</td><td>Pct.</td><td>Ch.</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Arizona Cardinals</td><td>1920</td><td></td><td>436</td><td>605</td><td>39</td><td>0.422</td><td></td><td>6</td><td>1</td><td>4</td><td>0.200</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>231</td><td>319</td><td>10</td><td>0.421</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>1</td><td>4</td><td>0.200</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Atlanta Falcons</td><td>1966</td><td></td><td>221</td><td>333</td><td>6</td><td>0.400</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>7</td><td>0.417</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>221</td><td>333</td><td>6</td><td>0.400</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>7</td><td>0.417</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Baltimore Ravens</td><td>1996</td><td></td><td>53</td><td>58</td><td>1</td><td>0.478</td><td></td><td>2</td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>0.833</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>53</td><td>58</td><td>1</td><td>0.478</td><td></td><td>2</td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>0.833</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Buffalo Bills</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>299</td><td>321</td><td>8</td><td>0.482</td><td></td><td>17</td><td>14</td><td>15</td><td>0.483</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>252</td><td>288</td><td>2</td><td>0.467</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>12</td><td>14</td><td>0.462</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Carolina Panthers</td><td>1995</td><td></td><td>53</td><td>75</td><td>0</td><td>0.414</td><td></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0.500</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>53</td><td>75</td><td>0</td><td>0.414</td><td></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0.500</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Chicago Bears</td><td>1920</td><td></td><td>634</td><td>444</td><td>42</td><td>0.585</td><td></td><td>22</td><td>14</td><td>15</td><td>0.483</td><td>9</td><td></td><td>267</td><td>289</td><td>4</td><td>0.480</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>7</td><td>11</td><td>0.389</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Cincinnati Bengals</td><td>1968</td><td></td><td>231</td><td>305</td><td>1</td><td>0.431</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>7</td><td>0.417</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>231</td><td>305</td><td>1</td><td>0.431</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>5</td><td>7</td><td>0.417</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Cleveland Browns</td><td>1950</td><td></td><td>395</td><td>309</td><td>10</td><td>0.560</td><td></td><td>24</td><td>11</td><td>20</td><td>0.355</td><td>4</td><td></td><td>253</td><td>255</td><td>4</td><td>0.498</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>6</td><td>14</td><td>0.300</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Dallas Cowboys</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>367</td><td>269</td><td>6</td><td>0.576</td><td></td><td>26</td><td>32</td><td>21</td><td>0.604</td><td>5</td><td></td><td>342</td><td>216</td><td>2</td><td>0.613</td><td></td><td>26</td><td>32</td><td>21</td><td>0.604</td><td>5</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Denver Broncos</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>329</td><td>305</td><td>10</td><td>0.519</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>16</td><td>12</td><td>0.571</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>307</td><td>246</td><td>7</td><td>0.554</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>16</td><td>12</td><td>0.571</td><td>2</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Detroit Lions</td><td>1930</td><td></td><td>462</td><td>499</td><td>32</td><td>0.481</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>7</td><td>10</td><td>0.412</td><td>4</td><td></td><td>242</td><td>308</td><td>10</td><td>0.441</td><td></td><td>9</td><td>1</td><td>9</td><td>0.100</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Gree Bay Packers</td><td>1921</td><td></td><td>592</td><td>468</td><td>36</td><td>0.557</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>23</td><td>12</td><td>0.657</td><td>12</td><td></td><td>283</td><td>267</td><td>10</td><td>0.514</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>16</td><td>9</td><td>0.640</td><td>3</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Houston Texans</td><td>2002</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>12</td><td>0</td><td>0.250</td><td></td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.000</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>12</td><td>0</td><td>0.250</td><td></td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0.000</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Indianapolis Colts</td><td>1953</td><td></td><td>352</td><td>367</td><td>7</td><td>0.490</td><td></td><td>16</td><td>10</td><td>13</td><td>0.435</td><td>3</td><td></td><td>260</td><td>295</td><td>5</td><td>0.469</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>8</td><td>11</td><td>0.421</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Jacksonville Jaguars</td><td>1995</td><td></td><td>68</td><td>60</td><td>0</td><td>0.531</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>0.500</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>68</td><td>60</td><td>0</td><td>0.531</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>0.500</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Kansas City Chiefs</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>336</td><td>296</td><td>12</td><td>0.531</td><td></td><td>13</td><td>9</td><td>11</td><td>0.450</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>292</td><td>260</td><td>8</td><td>0.529</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>8</td><td>11</td><td>0.421</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Miami Dolphins</td><td>1966</td><td></td><td>330</td><td>210</td><td>4</td><td>0.610</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>20</td><td>19</td><td>0.513</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>330</td><td>210</td><td>4</td><td>0.610</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>20</td><td>19</td><td>0.513</td><td>2</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Minnesota Vikings</td><td>1961</td><td></td><td>345</td><td>276</td><td>9</td><td>0.555</td><td></td><td>23</td><td>17</td><td>23</td><td>0.425</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>320</td><td>234</td><td>6</td><td>0.577</td><td></td><td>23</td><td>17</td><td>23</td><td>0.425</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>New England Patriots</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>291</td><td>328</td><td>9</td><td>0.471</td><td></td><td>11</td><td>10</td><td>10</td><td>0.500</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>247</td><td>294</td><td>3</td><td>0.457</td><td></td><td>10</td><td>9</td><td>9</td><td>0.500</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>New Orleans Saints</td><td>1967</td><td></td><td>218</td><td>323</td><td>5</td><td>0.404</td><td></td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>5</td><td>0.167</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>218</td><td>323</td><td>5</td><td>0.404</td><td></td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>5</td><td>0.167</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>New York Giants</td><td>1925</td><td></td><td>567</td><td>465</td><td>33</td><td>0.548</td><td></td><td>26</td><td>16</td><td>21</td><td>0.432</td><td>6</td><td></td><td>264</td><td>292</td><td>4</td><td>0.475</td><td></td><td>10</td><td>12</td><td>8</td><td>0.600</td><td>2</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>New York Jets</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>279</td><td>341</td><td>8</td><td>0.451</td><td></td><td>10</td><td>7</td><td>9</td><td>0.438</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>245</td><td>294</td><td>5</td><td>0.455</td><td></td><td>10</td><td>7</td><td>9</td><td>0.438</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Oakland Raiders</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>381</td><td>252</td><td>11</td><td>0.600</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>25</td><td>18</td><td>0.581</td><td>3</td><td></td><td>349</td><td>203</td><td>8</td><td>0.630</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>25</td><td>18</td><td>0.581</td><td>3</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Phil. Eagles</td><td>1933</td><td></td><td>424</td><td>489</td><td>24</td><td>0.465</td><td></td><td>17</td><td>13</td><td>14</td><td>0.481</td><td>3</td><td></td><td>267</td><td>284</td><td>9</td><td>0.485</td><td></td><td>13</td><td>9</td><td>13</td><td>0.409</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Pittsburgh Steelers</td><td>1933</td><td></td><td>458</td><td>454</td><td>20</td><td>0.502</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>23</td><td>17</td><td>0.575</td><td>4</td><td></td><td>313</td><td>242</td><td>5</td><td>0.563</td><td></td><td>20</td><td>23</td><td>16</td><td>0.590</td><td>4</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>San Diego Chargers</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>308</td><td>325</td><td>11</td><td>0.487</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>7</td><td>11</td><td>0.389</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>254</td><td>299</td><td>7</td><td>0.460</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>6</td><td>7</td><td>0.462</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>1950</td><td></td><td>425</td><td>324</td><td>13</td><td>0.566</td><td></td><td>22</td><td>25</td><td>17</td><td>0.595</td><td>5</td><td></td><td>331</td><td>223</td><td>8</td><td>0.596</td><td></td><td>21</td><td>25</td><td>16</td><td>0.610</td><td>5</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Seattle Seahawks</td><td>1976</td><td></td><td>195</td><td>225</td><td>0</td><td>0.464</td><td></td><td>5</td><td>3</td><td>5</td><td>0.375</td><td>0</td><td></td><td>195</td><td>225</td><td>0</td><td>0.464</td><td></td><td>5</td><td>3</td><td>5</td><td>0.375</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>St. Louis Rams</td><td>1937</td><td></td><td>464</td><td>411</td><td>20</td><td>0.530</td><td></td><td>25</td><td>18</td><td>22</td><td>0.450</td><td>3</td><td></td><td>313</td><td>240</td><td>7</td><td>0.565</td><td></td><td>19</td><td>15</td><td>18</td><td>0.455</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Tampa Bay Buccaneers</td><td>1976</td><td></td><td>160</td><td>259</td><td>1</td><td>0.382</td><td></td><td>8</td><td>6</td><td>7</td><td>0.462</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>160</td><td>259</td><td>1</td><td>0.382</td><td></td><td>8</td><td>6</td><td>7</td><td>0.462</td><td>1</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Tennessee Titans</td><td>1960</td><td></td><td>311</td><td>327</td><td>6</td><td>0.488</td><td></td><td>18</td><td>13</td><td>16</td><td>0.448</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>266</td><td>289</td><td>5</td><td>0.479</td><td></td><td>15</td><td>11</td><td>15</td><td>0.423</td><td>0</td> </tr> <tr height=17 align=center><td height=17 align=left>Washington Redskins</td><td>1932</td><td></td><td>495</td><td>440</td><td>27</td><td>0.529</td><td></td><td>20</td><td>22</td><td>15</td><td>0.595</td><td>5</td><td></td><td>314</td><td>239</td><td>7</td><td>0.567</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>19</td><td>11</td><td>0.633</td><td>3</td> </tr></table>

Anrhydeddu

07-14-2003, 02:30 PM

Thank you, that is interesting.

Leonidas

07-14-2003, 03:02 PM

By sport, my picks.

Baseball: Tampa Bay. I will not stop until this team goes away. Worst stadium in baseball, worst front office, worst collection of talent. I am really offended this team exists while the nation's capitol continues to get put off to have a team.

Football: The Cardinals. Yes, the Bengals suck, but they have been to two Super Bowls. I'm not sure an owner could be as deliberately bad as Bidwell.

Basketball: Clippers. Do I even need to explain?

Hockey: Probably one of those teams I couldn't even tell you the nickname of. I used to follow hockey, then stopped for awhile. When I looked back up they kept talking about teams I'd never even heard of. The Hurricanes, the Wild, the Blue Jackets? Who are these guys? Where do they play? Should I care?

Sharpieman

07-14-2003, 03:53 PM

Worst football Franchise: Arizona...yes the bengals suck but at least they have been to some superbowls.

Worst Baseball Franchise: Gotta be the Tampa Bay Devil Rays

Worst Basketball Franchise: Ill have to go with the Clippers and Wizards in a tie...they both suck so bad that they can't even win at being the worst franchise.

Anrhydeddu

07-14-2003, 04:18 PM

I seriously think we should throw out any franchise that haven't been around for more than a few decades (esp. like the Rays). Even the greatest franchises (e.g., Yankees) had very rough beginnings. In both baseball and football, it seems that 1970 would be a good dividing line.

sabotai

07-14-2003, 04:23 PM

Football: Arizona Cardinals

Baseball: Chicago Cubs. Last time they saw a World Series was 1945, last time they actually won a World Series was 1908. Longest championship drought in all of sports. I've seen people say the Devil Rays, but they haven't even been in the league for a decade yet. It's been over 5 decades since the Cubs went to the Series and we're quickly approaching the century mark for them not having one it.

Basketball: Clippers. I don't even watch basketball and I know this.

Hockey: Dunno. Not much of a historian, so I don't know if the Buffalo Sabers were a team that moved or got renamed, but going through the NHL championship list, I see they made it twice in their history and have not won it. So I'll say them. (Since that seems to be the criteria that we have set for this)

Scholes

07-14-2003, 07:49 PM

Jeez... you leave a little frustrated rant on here, go to work, only to come back and discover you got housed all day long...

A few things...

I didn't mean historical or on the field performance. I was simply talking about the off-field stuff that has went on since McCombs arrived. Maybe I'm a bit caught up in all of the negative publicity that they've been getting around here, with a very local bias.
It could be this bad everywhere (Portland springs to mind), but I really haven't heard a lot of positive things about the Vikings in the last three years.

My apologies if I offended anyone by calling the Vikings a horrible franchise.

SteelerFan448

07-14-2003, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Leonidas

Hockey: Probably one of those teams I couldn't even tell you the nickname of. I used to follow hockey, then stopped for awhile. When I looked back up they kept talking about teams I'd never even heard of. The Hurricanes, the Wild, the Blue Jackets? Who are these guys? Where do they play? Should I care?

The Hurricanes made the finals two years ago. The Wild just made the conference finals this year. The Blue Jackets, who came in with the Wild are too young of a team to be considered a bad franchise.

tucker342

07-14-2003, 08:23 PM

If you're going by that, then the Vikings are pretty bad, but they still aren't even close to as bad as the Trail Blazers

WussGawd

07-14-2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by tucker342
If you're going by that, then the Vikings are pretty bad, but they still aren't even close to as bad as the Trail Blazers

I wouldn't go anywhere near this far. The Jail Blazers do have an NBA Title under their belt (77), and a finals appearance during the Drexler/Porter days...a lot of NBA franchises wouldn't mind the Blazers' history, the current detox unit escapees aside.

It's at least as much as the Vikings have.

Pumpy Tudors

07-14-2003, 10:45 PM

Personally, I think that just because a team has won a title or two doesn't disqualify them from a list. A lot of teams were very fortunate to have a couple of successful seasons, but overall, some franchises are truly terrible. I certainly wouldn't disqualify the Bengals or the Trailblazers or the Warriors just because they've had success in the past. Given that, the Arizona Cardinals probably still top the list.

I think most of you missed Scholes' point, though. Sure, he titled the thread "The worst franchise in sports," but I don't think he was going on the criteria that many of you have placed on it. I've seen valid arguments regarding the connection between his examples and Minnesota's ineptness, but couldn't the man have just been ranting about the horrible things that have happened to a team he likes (I'm assuming that he likes them, of course).

I've called the New Jersey Devils "a bunch of bums" because they lost Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals in 2001. I called them something even worse in 1994 when they lost to a better Rangers team(I can't believe I just said that!) in the Eastern Conference Finals in seven games. I called the St. Louis Cardinals a bunch of undeserving losers last week because they lost two games to the Dodgers.

Do I really think the Devils were horrible when they lost deep in the playoffs? Are the Cardinals truly undeserving because of two games out of 162? Of course not. Those things were just frustrating, and a lot of fans just vent when their teams get into such positions.

The man's just ranting, people. I don't think he was trying start a competition.

tucker342

07-15-2003, 11:15 AM

True, but if he's just talking off the field matters, than at least the last couple of years, Portland is by far the worst

AZSpeechCoach

07-15-2003, 12:21 PM

Yeah...Cardinals suck. Whoooooo!!! Imagine having to live in the shadow of the suck. It . . . ummmmm . . . sucks.

Maple Leafs

07-15-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by SteelerFan448
The Hurricanes made the finals two years ago. The Wild just made the conference finals this year. The Blue Jackets, who came in with the Wild are too young of a team to be considered a bad franchise. Exluding the last round of expansion (which is about a third of the league) and dead franchises, the Hurricane's wouldn't be a bad choice.

Yes, they made the finals, but they weren't even that good that year. They were the NHL's obligatory "Crappy Team that Makes the Finals and Loses™", and then finished last the next season.

Before moving to Carolina they were the Hartford Whalers, who I think may have won maybe one or two playoff rounds. They did have Ron Francis and the catchiest theme song of all time, though.

Other NHL candidates:
Buffalo - rode Dominik Hasek to the finals one year, but otherwise have never done anything, ever. Finally won a playoff series in 1992/93 and acted like they'dwon the Cup. Currently on the verge of bankruptcy.

Washington - Also made the finals one year and had some good battles with the Pens when they were dominant, but have never been anything special. Were arguably the worst franchise in sports history when they first started out.

Rangers - One Cup in 60+ years, and the current posterchild for really terrible Big Market Teams. But they play at MSG and are an original six team, so they're not really a candidate.

Phoenix - First of all, why is there even a team in Phoenix. Franchise dates back to Winnipeg, and has never made it past round two.

cthomer5000

07-15-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I seriously think we should throw out any franchise that haven't been around for more than a few decades (esp. like the Rays). Even the greatest franchises (e.g., Yankees) had very rough beginnings. In both baseball and football, it seems that 1970 would be a good dividing line.

agreed. If we're talking football, I think you can only make a very serious case for either Arizona or New Orleans. So to me, the tiebreaker is the extra 50 years of ineptitude the cardinals have.

Othersiwe all the other "terrible" teams have some really bad decades, but enough bright spots to keep them from the bottom of the pile.