We lost one.

[Ben E Lou]

A kid who was involved in our ministry was killed. The story can be found here. (http://11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=34212) Hannah was a very popular girl, a cheerleader, and would have possibily been Homecoming Queen this fall. It is a very sad waste. I'm away at camp with middle school kids right now, but I'm getting calls right and left from parents and kids. It sounds like this has really devastated our community. I'll be back Sunday night, and hosting a time of processing and grieving just for teenagers on Monday after the funeral.

I've known a number of teenagers over the years who have passed away--some who went to school with kids I knew, but weren't involved in Young Life, and some who had graduated from HS and used to be involved, but Hannah is the first kid who was currently in high school and involved in my ministry to die. She was pretty close to my wife. There are only pics of about 20 kids on our refrigerator who are currently in high school, and Hannah was one of them.

I'd appreciate prayers for our community, and in particular for my time with kids on Monday afternoon.

--Ben

Hannah is the one on the far right in the pic below.
http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/My%20Pictures0091.jpg

[Kodos]

That's awful. I'm so sorry to hear about this, SkyDog. My thoughts are with everyone at your ministry and her family.

[Draft Dodger]

very sad.

sorry to hear it.

[Noop]

:(

[rjolley]

Very sorry to hear that. My condolenses to everyone.

[MrBug708]

Wow, very sad. Thoughts out to everyone


However, street racing is a very dangerous sport and I know one person killed over here, but not with motorcycles, but a car

[bigdawg2003]

My condolences to all

[korme]

That's terrible.. :(

[Vince]

:( So sorry to hear that SkyDog. My thoughts are with you and yours.

[McSweeny]

very very sad

:(

[FrogMan]

:(

very sad indeed. My thoughts go out to you, her family, and everybody that was close to her...

FM

[illinifan999]

:(

[FBPro]

Remembering those touched in our prayers today.

[SirFozzie]

Saying a prayer for the fallen, and those left behind.

[GrantDawg]

Our prayers are with you and her friends and family.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Very sorry to hear this. My condolences to all as well.

[MylesKnight]

My apologies to you SD, to your community and most especially to the Young Girl's Family.. I can only imagine how they must feel right now. That is something you never want to see anyone have to go through. Very Sad..

[Darkiller]

Very sorry sorry to hear that Skydog, I join all my prayers to you, the ministry, and the family.

May she rest in peace.

[Marc Vaughan]

Very sorry to hear that.

My thoughts are with your community and her family.

[Dutch]

Sad news indeed....too young.

[BFleming]

Terrible to hear...

I echo everyone else in sending my deepest condolences...

[sachmo71]

Our condolences to her family, Skydog. :(

[Silver Owl]

So sorry to see this. Thoughts and prayers to her family and loved ones.

[JW]

Very sorry to hear that. In June my high school and its community lost two members in a wreck just a couple of weeks after they had graduated. They were killed in a van wreck while returning home from their summer job at a nearby plant. They were working there while deciding what to do in the fall. Another student who had just graduated was injured. The injured student had nearly died in a joyriding wreck the previous summer. No one was wearing seatbelts. I understand how something like this can affect a whole community.

[Cards4ever]

17 is way to young to die, my condolences to all involved.

[Swaggs]

Terrible, terrible news...

[Senator]

horrible

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm truly sad to hear that. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone who was touched by this tragic incident.

[vtbub]

:(

So sorry.

[klayman]

sad :(

[Vegas Vic]

What a tragedy and waste of a young life.

She has moved on to a better place, and my thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends.

[QuikSand]

So sorry.

[NoMyths]

Sad news, Ben. :(

[Bad-example]

:(

[Neuqua]

That's just too bad.

:(

[cincyreds]

I am sorry to hear the news as well.

[MizzouRah]

Wow, sad news indeed. I used to have a motorcycle and sold it. I actually thought about buying one again, but I thought of the consequences and my two little ones at home.

Sad... very sad. She will be in my prayers.


Todd

[AnalBumCover]

:(

[Craptacular]

:( Very sad. Hopefully some good will come out of this, and other kids will learn to think a little more before doing something stupid. I'm sick of seeing or hearing about things like this.

[Franklinnoble]

Sorry to hear that, S.D. I will pray for her friends and family.

Fortunately, Hannah is in a much better place.

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." - Phi 1:21

[Balldog]

:(

Last year around this time a 14-year old and a 19-year old collided on dirt bikes at night nearby, both died on impact.

[tucker342]

sad news:(

[Anrhydeddu]

This is very tragic. I sincerely hope with all my heart that others will learn from this and never, ever do something as stupid as street racing, esp. in a motorcycle. :(

[Ben E Lou]

I'm back in town now. Thanks for all of your kind words. I've been on the phone most of the afternoon and evening. As is to be expected, kids are taking it VERY hard. The funeral is tomorrow (Monday) at 11am. One of the speakers is a kid who went to camp with us in June. My wife talked to her this afternoon. She's not doing well at all, and doesn't think she'll make it through her words without breaking down.

The sad thing is that from what I know of teenagers, reckless behavior in Tucker will slow down for around three weeks, maybe a couple of months if we're lucky, but then things will be right back to normal.

[JPhillips]

I hate it, but I agree with you Skydog. The small town I grew up in in Ohio would go through something like this every three or four years. It cleans up for a while, but soon the old behavior, just with different players is back.

Good luck and God bless.

[tucker342]

A kid I knew and two of his friends died in a car crash last year in my town.... it's scary how easily peoples lives can be taken:(

[Ben E Lou]

Well, I just got back from the funeral, graveside service, and then post-funeral gathering with kids. I've been to a number of funerals, but this was the saddest one I've ever been to. Her older sister, who Jen and I knew very well from when she was in high school, just absolutely wailed throughout nearly the entire thing.

At the end of the funeral, they opened up the microphone for kids to get up and speak. Around 10 or 12 of them spoke, and of course struggled to get through it. Hannah had the kind of personality that just lit up a room whenever she walked in. The principal described her VERY well earlier when he compared her to a cocker spaniel puppy--just enthusiastic about being EVERYONE'S friend. Kids told some great stories that very much captured who she was. The final one to speak was Luca (her boyfriend who was driving the motorcycle). Of course he was more broken up than just about anyone. Through his sobs, he talked about how much he loved her and was going to miss her, and then he said something to the effect of: "Mr. and Mrs. Dodd, I know I've said it a hundred times, and you've told me not to say it any more, and I promise I won't say it again., but...{pause, sobs}....I........AM........SO...{sobs}.....SORRY." As frustrated as I, and many others are, with the whole situation, you couldn't help but weep with the kid. He's going to carry this with him the rest of his life.

Then we went to the graveside. I'd never seen this done before, but they actually lowered her body into the ground as a part of the ceremony, and they had a pile of dirt and a shovel there, and at the end they encouraged everyone present to dig a shovel-full of dirt and throw it into the hole on top of her body. I thought that was good for giving the teenagers there a picture of the finality of the whole situation. Kids stayed around the gravesite until the VERY bitter end too. The tent was down. The astro-turf was gone. All that was left was a pile of dirt, a hole, and the tractor filling in the hole. They watched the whole thing.

Afterwards, a bunch of kids showed up at the gathering that we had. It was good to be with them.

Tough times in Tucker, but we're healing.

--Ben

[korme]

Mike (http://www.michaelpangallo.com) died when I was a freshman and he was a sophomore. He was very close to one of my best friends. It was tough on all of Milford and to this day -- after 2 years, people still have tributes to Mike in their AIM info, stickers on their cars, everything. I remember it was very hard to deal with death when it is someone my age. It was a bit frightening to tell the truth, realizing it can happen to anyone. Alot of times you think you are safe and you can't be hurt, but things like this bring you back to reality.

[FBPro]

Certainly a difficult and sad time, thankfully God can work miracles never thought possible in and through times like this. May His Peace surround all those touched.

[Ksyrup]

My condolences to the family and everyone who was touched by this tragedy.

Just curious, is the boyfriend looking at any possible criminal charges, like vehicular manslaughter? If I had been the boyfriend, I would have been extremely uncomfortable showing up to the funeral. But it sounds like there is more forgiveness than blame. I'm honestly not sure how I would react if I was the parent, especially this soon after the tragedy.

My prayers for all involved.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Just curious, is the boyfriend looking at any possible criminal charges, like vehicular manslaughter?

A legitemate question, and I'm also interested. In my hometown, one of my high school classmates was in an accident that killed a friend of his (alcohol was involved). They were speeding on a highway, and rear-ended a garbage truck. The driver is currently serving jail time.

[Ben E Lou]

Well, it sounds like the Dodds have forgiven Luca, but he hasn't come close to forgiving himself. He said from up front that we struggled with whether or not to come to the funeral, and that he definitely had not intended on saying anything from up front.

I haven't heard anything recently about the D.A. prosecuting him. I can't for the life of me figure out what possible good jail would do. I say fine him and take away his license for a few years. He's already had enough punishment to learn the lesson of a lifetime.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Well, it sounds like the Dodds have forgiven Luca, but he hasn't come close to forgiving himself. He said from up front that we struggled with whether or not to come to the funeral, and that he definitely had not intended on saying anything from up front.

I haven't heard anything recently about the D.A. prosecuting him. I can't for the life of me figure out what possible good jail would do. I say fine him and take away his license for a few years. He's already had enough punishment to learn the lesson of a lifetime.

I would agree, I cannot even imagine the pain he is going through for himself and for the family right now. My prayer is that God would be VERY real to him during this time.

[cmp]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
A legitemate question, and I'm also interested. In my hometown, one of my high school classmates was in an accident that killed a friend of his (alcohol was involved). They were speeding on a highway, and rear-ended a garbage truck. The driver is currently serving jail time.

I recently had a friend that was involved in a single car crash that killed two of his friends who were in the backseat. He was charged with vehicular manslaughter and found guilty and is serving 4-15 years. He was under the influence of marjiuana though. If the kid wasn't under the influence I don't believe he'll be charged.

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by gold101
If the kid wasn't under the influence I don't believe he'll be charged.

If he was doing something criminally negligent he should be charged.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Craptacular
If he was doing something criminally negligent he should be charged. Legally, you're right of course. I just see no good whatsoever, for him or for society, to him getting jail time. A fine, probation and loss of license for a relatively long time would sit well with me.

[cmp]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Legally, you're right of course. I just see no good whatsoever, for him or for society, to him getting jail time. A fine, probation and loss of license for a relatively long time would sit well with me.

I agree with SkyDog here. He's no threat to society, why put him in jail? That's the same thing I thought with my friend. He wasn't a threat to society and by making one bad decision he has to sit in jail for at least 4 years. Jail will do no good to him, it can only make him bitter.

[Anrhydeddu]

I agree but you have to try to apply the law equally in all cases. If there is precedent in your county to avoid jail time for something like this, then it should apply in this case.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I agree but you have to try to apply the law equally in all cases. If there is precedent in your county to avoid jail time for something like this, then it should apply in this case.

I agree. And, of course, another reason for prosecuting is that there is the idea of deterrence for the next set of joyriding kids.

Interestingly, this will likely be the same type of argument about the 86 year old out in California. A threat to society or not, if there was a crime, both of them should be held accountable in some form or fashion. The degree of punishment might be arguable, but holding someone accountable for their actions is not, IMO.

[Craptacular]

I didn't say he should necessarily go to jail (although it shouldn't be ruled out, especially since we don't know all the circumstances), but he certainly should be charged and punished if found guilty of criminal negligence. If you don't know already, I have little or no tolerance for these kinds of things.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Legally, you're right of course. I just see no good whatsoever, for him or for society, to him getting jail time. A fine, probation and loss of license for a relatively long time would sit well with me.
Its not about him, or whether or not he is a danger to society.

Its about the next kid who wants to race motorcycles. If this kid committed a criminal act resulting in the death of another, then NOT prosecuting tells all those kids that there are no consequences to drag racing motorcycles. He should be prosecuted whether or not someone died, it is just very tragic that it took the death of a beautiful young woman for him to get caught.

Now, debate all you want about whether or not this kid going to jail actually works as a deterrent to the next group, but I think they have to try.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
Its not about him, or whether or not he is a danger to society.

Its about the next kid who wants to race motorcycles. If this kid committed a criminal act resulting in the death of another, then NOT prosecuting tells all those kids that there are no consequences to drag racing motorcycles. He should be prosecuted whether or not someone died, it is just very tragic that it took the death of a beautiful young woman for him to get caught.

Now, debate all you want about whether or not this kid going to jail actually works as a deterrent to the next group, but I think they have to try. Good point, but to an "invincible" age group, only those *very* close to him are going to learn any lesson at all from his punishment, and for even those, it is more likely that the lesson they'll learn is: "when you're racing, make sure everyone has a helmet that fits and that it is fastened well."

I understand why you say that they have to try though.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Good point, but to an "invincible" age group, only those *very* close to him are going to learn any lesson at all from his punishment, and for even those, it is more likely that the lesson they'll learn is: "when you're racing, make sure everyone has a helmet that fits and that it is fastened well."

I understand why you say that they have to try though.

Agreed, as tragic as it may be, unfortunately most kids will have forgotten about the incident in a year or so, or in a few years may not have even known it happened in the first place. Or they will have the "well, that can't/won't happen to me" mentality.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Good point, but to an "invincible" age group, only those *very* close to him are going to learn any lesson at all from his punishment, and for even those, it is more likely that the lesson they'll learn is: "when you're racing, make sure everyone has a helmet that fits and that it is fastened well."

I understand why you say that they have to try though.
Yeah, I am making no claim that it actually works, but I would think it does in some cases. Consistently prosecuting those who drag race will definitely not stop it from happening, but I tend to think it will make some teens think it is not worth the risk and decide to do something else on a Saturday night.

And, I know this is anecdotal evidence, but from the teens I have known (mostly me and my friends when I was that age) the invincible thing applies mostly to injury/death. We weren't afraid of dying, but we were afraid of getting caught.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Samdari
Yeah, I am making no claim that it actually works, but I would think it does in some cases. Consistently prosecuting those who drag race will definitely not stop it from happening, but I tend to think it will make some teens think it is not worth the risk and decide to do something else on a Saturday night.

Not only that, but what is the alternative? Letting them get off? Why should that only apply to teens? Don't 25 year olds or 35 year olds who engage in reckless behavior that turns tragic deserve the opportunity to "make something of the rest of their lives?" These kinds of things are, by definition, "tragic," regardless of the age of the person at fault. You make an exception for an arbitrary class of people (i.e., teenagers), then its going to get awfully difficult to argue against giving the same break to someone a little older. In fact, since those a bit older might already have a family, there's even a greater justification why it would serve society better to let them off.

No, you either prosecute all those who engage in factually similar "tragedies,", or let them all go.

[grdawg]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Then we went to the graveside. I'd never seen this done before, but they actually lowered her body into the ground as a part of the ceremony, and they had a pile of dirt and a shovel there, and at the end they encouraged everyone present to dig a shovel-full of dirt and throw it into the hole on top of her body.

--Ben

Skydog - this is actually a part of the funeral ceremony in judaism. We just burried my grandmother about 2 months ago and we did this. I'm not totally sure the significance, but each family member shovelled 3 shovels full and then other friends finished up covering the casket. I do think its a great custom.

As many have previously echoed, my sympathies go out to everyone affected.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by grdawg
Skydog - this is actually a part of the funeral ceremony in judaism. We just burried my grandmother about 2 months ago and we did this. I'm not totally sure the significance, but each family member shovelled 3 shovels full and then other friends finished up covering the casket. I do think its a great custom. Hannah's mother is Jewish by culture. I was wondering if that was a Jewish tradition.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Then we went to the graveside. I'd never seen this done before, but they actually lowered her body into the ground as a part of the ceremony, and they had a pile of dirt and a shovel there, and at the end they encouraged everyone present to dig a shovel-full of dirt and throw it into the hole on top of her body. I thought that was good for giving the teenagers there a picture of the finality of the whole situation. Kids stayed around the gravesite until the VERY bitter end too. The tent was down. The astro-turf was gone. All that was left was a pile of dirt, a hole, and the tractor filling in the hole. They watched the whole thing.

Yes, shovelling the dirt is a Jewish tradition. I used to work for a company with a predominantly Jewish sales force. One of our sales reps died of cancer. I, as branch manager, and as a friend, attended the funeral. It was the first time I had experienced a Jewish funeral. The sound of the dirt hitting the coffin stopped me cold. I will never forget that sound.

[Buzzbee]

Dola - This may sound insensitive, but I think that the boyfriend should be charged, and should serve time in jail. I'm sure that he has a tremendous sense of guilt, and this is something he will have to live with for the rest of his life. Rightfully so. Not only did he choose to do something so STUPID as to drag race, and not only did he choose to drag race on a motorcycle, he even choose to drag race, on a motorcycle, WITH his girlfriend on the back. I know teenagers tend to have the feeling of invincibility, but this was just plain stupid.

I feel sorry for the girls parents and friends. Her death is simply horrible. I do not feel sorry for the boyfriend. I feel that he brought it on himself. We should be willing to live with the consequences of our decisions.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just backing the thoughts of Samdari & Buzzbee here. I really don't see how a prosecutor could not take this to a grand jury.

[Ben E Lou]

Sheesh. It looks like my point has been missed again, as in a couple of other threads the last day or so. I never said, nor intended to mean, that he shouldn't be prosecuted. I just hope his sentence doesn't include jail time.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Sheesh. It looks like my point has been missed again, as in a couple of other threads the last day or so. I never said, nor intended to mean, that he shouldn't be prosecuted. I just hope his sentence doesn't include jail time.

SkyDog, I re-read through this page of posts, and don't really see where anyone has missed your point. I see comments regarding whether jail time is beneficial, or if he should legally be charged, but I didn't see anyone questioning your statement regarding him being prosecuted.

Just wanted some clarification as to who was missing the point (in case it was me).;)

[Samdari]

I don't think I missed your point either. I also think his sentence should include jail time. His reckless disregard of the law directly caused the death of another human being. A slap on the wrist is not enough. Feeling bad about it is not enough. I concede the following points:

(a) he did not intend to harm anyone

(b) he loved the girl and the guilt he will feel about it will be a tremendous lifelong burden

(c) this person is not a direct threat to anyone, and removing him from society does not directly make society safer.

I see that I wrote above that the DA should prosecute him, but I should have said that, despite knowing all that, I think he deserves to spend some time in jail. Not because he is a danger to anyone, but I believe that potential drag racers seeing this go unpunished are a danger, and seeing this guy in jail will convince some of them not to do so.

That said, were it my brother or friend, I would want like hell for them not to go to jail, so not knowing the principals involved, it is easy for me to argue about the principles. I do not mean to sound callous arguing that point, as I am truly sorry that you had one person you care about die and have to see another face the consequences, both internal and external.

[Ben E Lou]

Bump....no prosecution yet. Any idea how long they would wait to do so?

[cmp]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Bump....no prosecution yet. Any idea how long they would wait to do so?

Nothing happened in my friend's case until about 4 months after it happened. I had no idea they were even looking into possible charges against him.

[sabotai]

Completely unrelated type of case, but my friend's stepdad (who is now divorsed from his mom) was caught with child porn on his computer.

He started going to therapy and such, really trying to get help for some of the fucked up things he did (no, he didn't have sex with any kids). It was a good year or two before they started filing charges and such.

I guess sometimes it just takes a long time.

[Ben E Lou]

bump...for another thread I'm posting...