OT - FOFC at the poker tables

[QuikSand]

There have been quite a number of discussions recently about poker - it's hot, with TV coverage suddenly becoming pretty popular, and the tables everywhere are littered with fish just aching to give away their money.

Just curious... I can see the several "dynasty" threads running, but that's a bit more detail than some are looking for.

Who's out there playing poker?
Playing online or in person?
What stakes?
How you doing?

Anyone have any particularly good (or bad) online experiences that might be worth sharing with their FOFC brethren?

[QuikSand]

I finally broke down and launched an online account, going with the seeming leader in the industry, Party Poker. Both Mrs. Q and I have played a fair amount this past weekend, on our own accounts. I'm now seeking to have my initial deposit sent back to me. (In part to verify that you can actually extract you money back from these people) My plan all along was to establish a balance, and then "play with the house's money" from there. So far, so good.

I'm playing mostly $3/$6 Hold 'em, but one of the main reasons I decided to play here was to play in tournaments, where I have practically no experience. So far, I have played in two small-money tournaments, with one 6th place and one fairly exciting win. The psychology of no-limit poker is something I don't really understand well, but you don't have to be very good to beat a group of $10 players.

The low-level ring games currently seem to be very fruitful - lots of dead money out there. So far, the games certainly seem to follow the predictable loose-passive pattern.

I plan to start playing more Omaha Hi-Lo, but there's much more action in Hold 'Em, and I'm having trouble getting past the level of play here.

[TredWel]

I haven't updated my dynasty in a while, but I've sat for around 1600 hands online since then and now.

My bankroll has increased considerably, and even with cashing out my original deposit (which I had no problem doing), I had enough left to comfortably move up in class to the $1/$2 tables, where I have made some nice profits. The way I'm playing at those tables, I should have the bankroll to move to the $2/$4 tables by the end of the week.

[Radii]

I have played mainly $25 NL tables at partypoker.com. Actually I generally play two at once. I have been switching somewhat erratically between other games in a short term though trying to find the best format for me. I'm almost certainly going to switch to limit poker because of the well defined "expected win rate" ... I feel a very strong need to guage myself and determine if I'm good at this or not and I'm having a hard time doing that in NL. Also the room for online expansion seems a bit more limited in NL, and I'm not just absolutely *cleaning up* NL poker, so I think I can switch to limit and experience the same win rate and be able to work my way up the limits.


I can confirm a successful cashout from PartyPoker.com. I cashed out all my profits last month, it appeared in my Netteller account after a couple of days, and went from Netteller to my bank account just as smoothly.

I have been writing a dynasty but am finding, other than getting the occasional critique on my hands, that it isn't helping me focus any more on the game(which is what a dynasty usually buys me) so I am not sure I'm going to continue with it.

[Radii]

Dola, and to answer your specific question, I would say my online experience has been good. Partypoker's server goes nuts during the WPT, they don't have the bandwidth to handle the results of their quite successful marketing... but other than that I haven't had any bad experiences there.

Also with tournaments, from what I have read, PokerStars is generally conisdered the best play to play tournaments. I have only played real money tournaments at Party myself... but pokerstars seems to have a slower increase in limits, and more starting chips, allowing for more skill to be involved in the games. But this is just based on my reading, I haven't played any of their tournaments(except for a few heads up matches which dont' really correlate).

[digamma]

I haven't ventured into on-line poker but play semi-frequently at local card room/casinos. I usually play 3/6 Hold 'em.

[QuikSand]

Last night, I tried out some Omaha Hi-Lo at Party Poker. I have not done any real reading on the game (particularly where to draw the line on what is playable) so I just stayed out unless I had A2 with either somethin to pursue for high (pair or a nut flush draw), or a backu low card (3 or 4). That prpved to be a remarkably profitable strategy, atleast during one sitting - I collected about 30x the big bet in two hours. There were a lot of people chasing with very questionable hands... I think the subtleties between good and bad hands in that game are such that many players get even looser than they are in hold 'em, if you can imagine.

Anyone else playing Omaha?

[digamma]

Quik,

I wonder if you don't mind sharing what levels you play at when you visit Atlantic City, Las Vegas, or elsewhere. I think 3/6 is about the right game for me, but I'm finding it is still a fairly loose game. I'm wondering if you play at higher stakes than this if the commensurate skill level increase is noticeable.

[QuikSand]

I have played a number of different levels (hold 'em) in Atlantic City - but only pretty low level in Vegas ($3-6). In AC (only at the Taj so far - but I'll be at the Borgatta in a few weeks) I find that the weeknight $3-6 game is still very loose, but there is a decided jump in skill level when you decide to play $5-10. I spent one particular night playing $5-10, and managed to get pretty rattled... might have been sunstroke from the daytime of birdwatching, or maybe I just wasn't feeling well - but I had a pretty bad night. Took two nights of playing $3-6 (and a little luck) to get back to the black. In the $3-6 game, I'm almost guaranteed to come out ahead, but my guarantee seems to fade at $5-10.

I am told that the weekend crowd at AC gets a lot easier to beat, but the tables get pretty crowded also. I'll hopefully have a better report from the Borgatta soon - from everythign I hear secondhand, it's the first AC casino that you might actualy compare to the top Vegas sites. That's definitely what I'm looking for...

I have been playing a good deal more since my last AC trip, though, and if I feel like I am sharp I may try the higher level tables. Especially if I go carrying a pocketful of my hard-earned bankroll courtesy of the online fishies.

[sabotai]

I've been playing at the poor tables on PartyPoker ($0.5/$1) tables to try to get a feel for the game. I basically just started using real money not too long ago. Plus, I'm poor!

The first day, I had 1 really bad hand that put shoved me to $21 under. I've only had one other really bad hand since, though (some nutball calling ll the way to the river with a 2 and a 4 to make his straight on the river. ugh). I usually win the hand when I get to the river now, and am getting more confident in my game.

I've been crawling my way back to black (I'm about a buck under). It's taken so long because I don't really play much. If I played everyday, I have no doubt I'd be well above where I started (or well below if I actually suck. :) ). But NCAA 2004 and Star Wars Galaxies have pushed my poker playing to the side. Also, I've been reading a Tricks of the 3D Game Programming Gurus (imo, a great book btw). It's heavy on the math, which means I have to read each section 2 or 3 times to fully get (this ain't basic math and it's been years since I was even in a calc class) I play about once a week now.

I'd like to get into Omaha (based on QS sayings), but I've never played it and don't know the rules. So I'm not just going to jump in cold.

Since I'm only about an hour from Atlantic City, I'd like to get down there. But the little voice in head screams at me "YOU ARE POOR!!!!", so I haven't. Once I gain a sizable bankroll at PartyPoker, I'll probably take some of that money down to AC to see how I do in person.

[Airhog]

Good omaha play is terrible boring. It is also alot easier to play than holdem, if you can get down the basic principles.


I cannot wait for my Honeymoon. We have already decided to go to vegas. And I have already got the okay to play in 1 tournament.

[QuikSand]

If you're going to play Omaha, the single most important thing to do is understahd that game. Play the play money games for a while, just to get the feel of two things:

-How low works in a hi-lo game. It's basically a matter of having the best two unmatched cards, when there are three different cards 8 or below on the board. I know that sounds ridiculously simple (and it usually is) but you'd be stunned how many people simply don't understand how low hands work. Watch the game for a while, and you'll get it-- and then you'll understand the value of low cards, and aces in particular.

-How to look at the table. People switching from hold 'em to Omaha can forget about the rule that you must use exactly three table cards, and two hand cards. Forgetting this, it's easy to see how people see all sorts of full houses and such when they aren't possible (they require too many or too few table cards). You have to get past this to play Omaha, and it's really not that hard.

Get past those small obstacles, and you're ready to play low stakes Omaha. Of course there's more to it, but basic card sense will carry you from there - once you get the fundamentals of the game itself. And you'll be surprised how many people are putting up their own money without even getting as far as I already have in this post.

[T.C.M]

I hit a four of a kind a couple of weeks ago in Shreveport, LA at Harrah's. I was playing Caribbean Stud with a $10 ante. It paid me $500 automatically for hitting a jackpot hand. If the dealer had qualified I would have been paid 20-1 on my $20 bet and that would have been another $400.... but he didn't qualify.

When I get a chance I like to get out of LV to play for the change of scenery. I do not have any online accounts right now. Does anyone know where to play Caribbean Stud online?

T.C.M

[Radii]

I think I've gotten a much better handle on Omaha from the home game I play in, perhaps I need to give it a shot online, I keep hearing how much easier it is to beat than hold em.

I'm still playing a mix of NL $25 tables, and 2/4 tables at partypoker.

When I win on a 2/4 table I win big, but I am finding the swings are much greater in limit than no limit.

Another thing I'm going to do to build up my online bankroll is start picking up the bonuses from all the other major online sites. Most every site offers an initial deposit bonus of somewhere between $50-$100 (if you deposit enough), and I've set aside $400 that I'm waiting to clear into neteller. As soon as is does I'm going to start opening accounts at the major online sites with however much I need to max the initial deposit bonuses, play my hands to earn them and cash out. I'll post a list of all of them and how easy/hard it was to find games and cash out and that kind of thing once I've done it, but I suspect there is a good $500 to be made doing that just from the bonuses, and hopefully I'll be able to win a fair amount from my play in the process.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by T.C.M
I hit a four of a kind a couple of weeks ago in Shreveport, LA at Harrah's. I was playing Caribbean Stud with a $10 ante. It paid me $500 automatically for hitting a jackpot hand. If the dealer had qualified I would have been paid 20-1 on my $20 bet and that would have been another $400.... but he didn't qualify.

When I get a chance I like to get out of LV to play for the change of scenery. I do not have any online accounts right now. Does anyone know where to play Caribbean Stud online?


You probably won't find a lot of crossover of poker players here who also are willing to play games with a house edge. It's a guess on my part - but there's a fundamentally different appeal for a game like Caribbean Stud (which is a game with a defined negative expectation) and for true poker (which is a game where the individual's expectation is defined by his play).

The best evidence is this: there are probably a couple hundred people out there who make there livings as professional poker players, with varying degrees of succes. And there has never, ever, been a person who was a professional player of any fixed-odds game like craps, roulette, baccarat, or even Carribean Stud.


On your actual question - I don't know about any full-service casinos enough to give you any advice onr eliability and so forth, but I'm sure that most of them out there offer the usual range of table games, if that's your cup of tea.

Good luck.

[John Galt]

I've always preferred Omaha to Hold 'em in real-life games (I only play for play money online). It is a much more difficult game to compute odds on the fly largely due to the potential elimination of a low hand. It can be a very rewarding game in loose-passive settings because the nut high or low occurs with greater frequency than in hold 'em. The games I play aren't as loose, but there is still a good amount of action compared to our very tight hold'em games.

As an aside, I've never read any materials on how to play Omaha, but I've often wondered what the ideal hand would be. My general feeling has that the "perfect" hand would be AA23 (with the A2 and A3 suited separately). I've never looked to find out what the actual best hand is from an odds standpoint, so if anyone knows, I'd love to hear it.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by John Galt
As an aside, I've never read any materials on how to play Omaha, but I've often wondered what the ideal hand would be. My general feeling has that the "perfect" hand would be AA23 (with the A2 and A3 suited separately). I've never looked to find out what the actual best hand is from an odds standpoint, so if anyone knows, I'd love to hear it.

I can't imagine a better Omaha hand than the one you describe.

Perhaps replace the 3 with a K suited to the second A... that would be stronger for high, but would lose its low backup. I still like the double-suited AA23.

[Radii]

Originally posted by QuikSand
If you're going to play Omaha... <snipped>


I have a question about how you bet your lows pre-flop and on the flop in Omaha/8.

Say you have A2xx and you don't really have a quality high hand at all, will you attempt to cap the betting pre-flop? Or will you just check and call until the low hits.

If two of the low hit on the flop, will you start to bet out there, or check and call?

Do you bet it harder when you have A23 or A24 or do you play both as just quality low hands and get out if a 2 hits your A2xx on the flop and you dont have much of a high draw still?

I guess I could have just asked "How do you bet your low draws" but I'm way too long winded for that :)

Thanks.

[John Galt]

If you are playing online, usually the steel wheel is the nut (A2345), so I try to raise pre-flop in late position. Sometimes, with friends, we say a straight breaks a low, so the odds of a low hand are slightly less. In those cases I don't always raise. Still, I think in terms of risk-reward, betting aggressively pre-flop with an A2 + one other low card is the best way to get the big pot when you have the nut low. Of course, I always seem to get quartered in those situations, but that is just my bad luck. :)

[QuikSand]

I'm not an authoritative source, by any means. But my approach in a fairly loose game is to cap out an A2 if I have a 3 or 4 as a backup, but without a backup it depends on the table. With an unkown table, I will probably just call the A2XX - and I'd even call a raise.

If two low cards come up in the flop (like 4-6-J) then I will cap out the raises with my A2, even without a backup. Yes, every so often you split with the other raiser - but it will take some real gumption for the guy with the decent high hand to follow all those bets. Fairly often, you end up winning the high with crap, just because you raised out the other contenders who would have beaten you. (Thus, more support for the overpowering value of the ace in hi-lo games... even playing low, you happen to have a great high card, too).

And of course, the way to really win money in Omaha is with "sweeps" - winning both high and low. Sweeping a $50 pot is better than splitting a $75 pot. (Just in case that wasn't obvious)

[Radii]

Well, I played an hour of Omaha at a 6 man table on party during my lunch hour(it's nice living 2 minutes from the office), and I'm sold.

I played too loose, I know I did, I played too many mid level pairs and shit like 245 "hey maybe an ace will hit and I'll be gold." and stuff like that... but the strong hands I did have went over very very well, more than enough callers when I had the nut high or low. I scooped 3 pots in the hour and ended up ahead by 11 big bets on the hour.

I'll take 11 BB any day, espicially when I know there were holes in my play. Here's hoping there's more action at these tables in the evening, this was the only one open below the 5/10 level today.

[QuikSand]

Well, I'm going to try out a little parlay of my recent poker enthusiasm... I have entered into a local tournament this weekend, and will be playing Hold 'em for more serious stakes. The system is rising fixed stakes, and eventually no-limit once it's down to a certain number.

I'm also told that at these events (a local guy runs a tournament every few months or so) there are very rich side games that sprout up... so, I might get to sit in for some $10/20 high-low games if I'm feeling good about my play.

I'll bankroll the weekend with my week's earnings from PartyPoker - that seems like a fair play to me.

[SplitPersonality1]

Good luck QS. Looking forward to a report about your experiences this weekend.

[QuikSand]

I'm about to leave for my tournament - and have some bad signs. I played tennis this morning, against an opponent with whom I am usually competitive. I got trounced, and felt that most of my mistakes (the ones specific to today, rather than my generic tennis mistakes) were mental errors-- pushing my first serve at bad times, going for unwise corner kills, bad footwork, etc. Mental errors isn't exactly the theme I was hoping to have today. Alas - I got a couple hours of midday sleep to get prepared for the cards this evening - I'm told this event usually goes until sunup.

[sabotai]

QS, at least in poker you have more than a second to make mental decisions. :)

[SirFozzie]

Well, today was a good day for the Foz on the Absolute Poker table. A good result would have been finishing in the top 50 (100 person tournament). Things kept falling for me, till I was at the final table, guaranteed a payout.. and it was down to me and one other person for the title. We agreed to split it, played one hand for all the pot, so technically 2nd, but really tied for first :)

[QuikSand]

Well, at my first in-person tournament (with accompanying side games) I give myself a passing, but not excellent, grade.

Despite my decision to try to get more familiar with the tournament style of play, I have focused nearly all my play on ring games -- and if you haven't played both, you're missing the big differene in mentality needed. So, I had some trouble adjusting to the format - and ended up playing too conservatively to be a factor at the end.

In the main hold 'em tournament, we had fewer players than expected. There were almost 20 players total, but the operator decided to split it into two sides - one hold 'em and one seven stud - leaving us with one ten player table for hold 'em.

After the buy-in each player had $900 in chips, but there was an opportunity for an extra "re-buy" for another $600 in chips, costing about half the entry fee. When the final call for the re-buy was sounded, I made two decisions: #1 I had enough chips on hand ($1200 or so) that I could continue playing comfortably without the re-buy, and #2 I did not make myself as a likely winner of the top prize, which was the only way the rebuy made economic sense for me then. 7 out of 10 players purchased th re-buy, though.

After the rebuy, the table went to no limit, and my too-tight play caught up with me. The players I had pinned as either good or reckless ate me up, and I pretty quickly found myself in chip trouble. I went all-in on one good spot while on the big blind (after pairing the top card of a junk flop) and doubled up, but then the fgrin got to me. I outlasted a few people after that, but eventually had to go all in again on an unsuited JT, and failed to catch my straight draw (by only one card). Settled for fifth place, two out of the money.

I made it through the game to long to get a seat at the semi-legendary $10/$20 table in back (full of loose high-low players, a fortune to be won or lost there, I am told) but did manage to stick around for a while at $5/10 hold em after the tournament. There, my ring sensibilities helped out a lot-- even against the top finishers from the tournament, I was a string player, and my style of play kept me ahead all evening. I only played for about two hours, but won back $100 and nearly made back the day's expenses.

Considering I got fed and sheltered all day for $25... plus probably learned a bit along the way, I'm pleased with the whole day. I didn't play my best, but even when I knew that I was playing too tightly, I didn't panic and try to adjust on the fly. I think I'll need to try a few more online tournaments to get a better feel for the wider range of playable hands in that setting.

Good experience overall - I'll be invited back next time, and have probably found a semi-regular game very near my home to join as well. Pretty good show.

[EagleFan]

How big of a jump in experience is there on PartyPoker.com when you jump from the fake money into the real money? I've been messing around with it on and off all day (thanks to reading thiss thread) and haven't gotten the nerve to jump into the real money games yet.

I've been doing well at 7 card Stud and just cleaned up at Texas Hold em. I'm not judging my ability at hold'em by that though as it seemed like there were mostly very inexperienced players. Many would just raise at every chance.

I loved the 7 card stud tournaments though, found some very challenging players for just being fake money.


What are some of the FOFC nicknames out there at PartyPoker.com? I'm EagleFanD (EagleFan was taken it said).

[thealmighty]

I have been playing on PartyPoker in the free area.

I started out, as did everyone, with $1000 in play chips and I now have over $30,000, playing Hold-Em, pot limit, $2000 table.

[QuikSand]

My sense at PartyPoker is that the very lowest level of real money play is fairly close to what I saw in the play money area - in the $.50/$1.00 games, you can expect lots of people to stay in much more than they should, and lots of willingness to "see one more card" once they're in. I think this is not because the players there don't care about the money - it's because they largely don't know any different. As you go up in price, the skill level seems to correspondingly increase.

The level of play I've seen playing $3/$6 is pretty mixed but passable. When I sit in to watch Mrs. Q play in $1/2 or $2/4, there are still plenty of maniacs in there. She's disciplined but learning, so she is a plus player at $1/$2, and about even at $2/$4.

I just made a withdrawal from the site, so I currently lack the bankroll to play in higher-limit games. Hopefully, I'll get back up there soon. (I decided to take some winnings and splurge on a new mountain bike -- I like the concept of using funds earned while sitting on my ass to encourage me to get out more.)

[MJ4H]

I have never played a hand of Omaha in my life until this morning. Saw a 1500 entrant freeroll open on poker stars this morning and joined up on a whim. I was doing very well for a long while, as high as 60th with less than 300 left. Got rivered twice in a row (both times had a nut flush with no board pair and the river paired and lost to a full house) and was crippled badly. Out in 214th. Pretty good considering I had no clue what I was doing. (incidentally, just Omaha, not H/L). I really only play Hold em, but there is also a 7 card stud freeroll on poker stars tonight and I might try my hand at that.

[primelord]

Well I also made my first attempt at Omaha H/L based on the comments of the board. I made a nice little profit on my very first two hands despite not having any idea what I was doing. My first hand was KK26. I treated it like a Hold 'Em hand and bet strang from the start and ended up winning the high hand with just the K's. Luckily the 3 other people capping the raising each round were all playing the low hand. I flopped the nut straight on my second hand and with no low qualifier took a nice chunk of change for that.

After that I slowly gave most of that money back over the 30 minutes I played. I had a hard time looking past it like Hold 'Em where if you have 3 A's it's not nearly as big of a deal when 8's pair on the board. But I now realize people seem to hit full houses more times than not when the board pairs. So anyway I quit before I gave it all back and now think I have a better understanding and can see pretty easily how some money can be made at those tables.

I was amazed at how often people bet very hard at the non nut low hand. There were several hands where 345 was on the board and people with 68 and 67 would cap the raising and every time lose to someone who had A2.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by primelord
I treated it like a Hold 'Em hand...

Easy mistake in poker is to pick up strategy from one game and apply it to another. Please don't do that with these two games.

As you started to gather, the availability of multiple cards is a huge difference - it's much, much more likely that the hands in Omaha will fill up those boats, flushes, and straights than it is in Hold 'em. Much more likely for "nut" hands to be present at the board (espeically when there is a nut straight draw... much, much easier to find a person witk JT in that game).

Good luck if you decide to play.

[QuikSand]

Oh, for what it's worth - moving your money from PartyPoker to their sister site EmpirePoker gives you a second bite at the "signup bonus" apple - of 20%, up to $75 I believe. The re-confirming your account is easy (I was done within two minutes), and you end up right back at the same tables (the two sites are commingled, it seems). Slightly different color scheme and decor, but essentially the same game(s) - totally transparent.

If you switch, you can use the signup code of EP0141 - which was given to me and has worked fine thus far.

[sabotai]

EagleFan,

The only real difference between the play money and the poor real money (0.5/1) table is that there aren't as many people raising everything. I remember in play money, someone would sit down, and just raise like hell, no matter what they had. They don't do that in real money.

That's really the only difference. People still call many hands they should not.

[primelord]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Easy mistake in poker is to pick up strategy from one game and apply it to another. Please don't do that with these two games.

Yea it only takes a few hands before you realize you can't apply a Hold 'Em strategy to Omaha. :)

I have few questions on a couple of hands I played last night.

Hand 1:

I was dealt A26K in the big blind. Several people call and I check to see the flop. The flop comes up A76 rainbow. So I have two pair, but obviously lost my shot at the low hand. I check and there is a bet and then a raise before it gets back to me and I dump my cards. Now the turn was a Q. And the river ended up being an A which would have given me Aces full of 6's which in the end would have won the high. Did I play that hand correctly? Calling a raise on two pair, not even top two pair, just seems too risky in Omaha.

Hand 2:

I am dealt Ac3c KdQd. I call the big blind and the flop comes up 6c Js 2d. I am thinking at this point I am in good shape. I am drawing to the not low. And I have back door draws to the nut straight and a flush. There is a bet and no one raises and I call. The turn comes up Ad. So my nut low has been counterfeited, but I still have a draw to the nut straight and now a draw to the nut flush. However by the time the betting gets back around to me the raising has been capped. I am guessing several of those raises are sitting on 34 still I can't see what everyone else is betting so strongly on. I call the raises and the river comes out 6s. The betting gets capped to me again and I obviosuly dump my cards. Again I ask did I play that hand correctly? I had 13 outs to the nut hand so it seemed like the good play, but I am just not sure with Omaha yet.

[Radii]

Without getting into the omaha strategy because I really don't know myself and am interested in hearing the answers...

I think your second scenario is more of a pot odds question than an omaha question. If you have 13 outs to the nut high on the last card, your odds of hitting your hand are (52-8-13 : 13) or 31:13 or about 2.4:1. If you are getting better than 2.4:1 odds on a call then my first thought is that the call was correct.

The only thing I'm unsure of here, is that the pot will be split. You don't have a low, so the best you can reasonably hope for is to split the pot.

It makes sense to me, actually, since you are likely only playing for half the pot, that you would actually need double the pot odds on a call. So maybe you actually need 4.8:1 pot odds to call? Is that logic sound or is there something flawed in my thinking here?

[John Galt]

Originally posted by primelord
Yea it only takes a few hands before you realize you can't apply a Hold 'Em strategy to Omaha. :)

I have few questions on a couple of hands I played last night.

Hand 1:

I was dealt A26K in the big blind. Several people call and I check to see the flop. The flop comes up A76 rainbow. So I have two pair, but obviously lost my shot at the low hand. I check and there is a bet and then a raise before it gets back to me and I dump my cards. Now the turn was a Q. And the river ended up being an A which would have given me Aces full of 6's which in the end would have won the high. Did I play that hand correctly? Calling a raise on two pair, not even top two pair, just seems too risky in Omaha.

Hand 2:

I am dealt Ac3c KdQd. I call the big blind and the flop comes up 6c Js 2d. I am thinking at this point I am in good shape. I am drawing to the not low. And I have back door draws to the nut straight and a flush. There is a bet and no one raises and I call. The turn comes up Ad. So my nut low has been counterfeited, but I still have a draw to the nut straight and now a draw to the nut flush. However by the time the betting gets back around to me the raising has been capped. I am guessing several of those raises are sitting on 34 still I can't see what everyone else is betting so strongly on. I call the raises and the river comes out 6s. The betting gets capped to me again and I obviosuly dump my cards. Again I ask did I play that hand correctly? I had 13 outs to the nut hand so it seemed like the good play, but I am just not sure with Omaha yet.

For Hand 1, I think you should definitely play that hand aggressively on the flop. First off, you didn't necessarily lose the low (although your odds are decresed) since a 3, 4, or 5 would leave you sitty in a decent fallback low position. You can discount this possibility if a lot of people stay in, but if there are only 2, 3 or maybe 4, the fallback low isn't the worst thing to have in your pocket. I wouldn't wager on that low, but it does factor into the overall odds. Second, two pair is nothing to sneeze at in Omaha on the flop, especially when one of the pairs is A's. You have to figure from the flop that the only hands that would beat you would be AA, A7, and 77 (and an outside straight possibility - which you can assess after another card). The first hand becomes an impossibility, the second becomes a longshot that you should gladly pay if it turns up, and the third is beaten by your full house. A lot of that is hindsight, but when you can limit the opponents outs so narrowly, you gotta bet aggressively to eliminate the lucky catches. The odds are in your favor in a rainbow hand like this. You may not get a full house, but you should definitely raise to prevent the AQ (or whatever other 4 or 5 card appears).

For Hand 2, it is a harder call. I may differ from others on this one. I generally play a little more conservative here even with that many outs. A lot of it depends on reads (something that is hard online) and the number of players staying in. I would have folded when my low was busted, but I guess many would have played it another way, or at least stayed in for another card.

[KWhit]

Do you guys have any websites bookmarked that give basic strategy and rules for these games?

I've played poker games before (7 stud, etc) but am new to hold-em and Omaha.

Basically, I'm unsure what hands are good pre-flop and when I should fold or stay in based on my hole cards and what I see on the flop.

[Airhog]

KWhit: In Holdem, there are some charts. but I dont believe in charts, because their are so many other factors.

I would say from an early position Something Between AA and 1010 would be good starting hands, this would include AK KQ Etc. But this all depends on the table you are playing at. You have to learn to value a hand based on the other people.


I am not too familiar with Omaha, but I do know that starting had is much more important.

[Radii]

KWhit: http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/strategy/preflop-abdul.html

It's a good starting point, and has some discussion on changing strategy based on the other people at the table and how they are playing as well. that's for hold em only of course.

[QuikSand]

I was dipping on on Mrs Q's play last evening, when I saw a familiar face at her table - sabotai (under a slightly different name, but still identifiable).

She said hello to you (on my behalf), but I think you must have missed it - must have been very intently focused on the cards, eh?

[QuikSand]

By the way - I've started to shift my game a bit at PartyPoker, after cooling off considerably at the $3/$6 tables. I'm a pretty comfortably winner at the $0.50/$1.00 tables, and I'm experimenting with playing two at once. So far, so good - my $/hr is about the same, with what seems to be less downside risk.

[primelord]

Originally posted by QuikSand
By the way - I've started to shift my game a bit at PartyPoker, after cooling off considerably at the $3/$6 tables. I'm a pretty comfortably winner at the $0.50/$1.00 tables, and I'm experimenting with playing two at once. So far, so good - my $/hr is about the same, with what seems to be less downside risk.

Please don't take all my money. ;)

[Radii]

Originally posted by QuikSand
By the way - I've started to shift my game a bit at PartyPoker, after cooling off considerably at the $3/$6 tables. I'm a pretty comfortably winner at the $0.50/$1.00 tables, and I'm experimenting with playing two at once. So far, so good - my $/hr is about the same, with what seems to be less downside risk.

I swear I play better when I have two tables up. Maybe that's just me being insane, I'm not sure. But it seems like I better maintain a proper "interested indifference" towards the game when I'm playing two tables.

[KWhit]

Thanks for the strategy sites. I've started playing around with PartyPoker (play money only so far).

The first session I played I was wiped out pretty fast - I played way too loose.

I'm playing in my second session right now. So far so good. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[KWhit]

On my second session, I did quite well. Played for about 2 hrs. Started with $250 in play money and ended up with $850. This more than made up for the $250 I lost last time. Not bad since I just started. But I'm not ready to start playing for real $$ yet.

[Mustang]

As a note, how are you guys depositing money into your accounts? I tried opening a real money account but, found my credit card company doesn't allow internet gambling charges. Guess I could mail/wire it in but, haven't done it yet...

Just wondering on what everyone else is doing.

[QuikSand]

Has anyone else tried online tables of no-limit? On PartyPoker, they seem to have them for $25 buy-in and up. Seems to me that if you're familiar with playing no limit poker, you can probably clean up there... if you're willing to risk the losses. I'm intrigued...

[Radii]

QS, that's almost entirely what I play when I play on party. It does seem to me that you're risking less for more gain.

I on rare occasions lose my entire $25 buyin. More often than anything, I buy in for $25 and leave with $25 to $40... and then on other occasions I leave with $50-$90.

The games are very interesting and require some adjusting to. Some tables there will be a pre-flop raise to $2 75% of the hands. On those tables you have to wait for great hands. Occasionally there are some very passive tables with virtually no pre-flop raising and you can loosen up signifigantly with your drawing hands.

When I sit at Party w/ two tables open, one of them is always a $25 NL table. The second one is sometimes another $25 NL table, sometimes a HE limit game, sometimes Omaha. But my most consistant winnings for the past two months have come from these $25 NL tables.

[Radii]

Originally posted by Mustang
As a note, how are you guys depositing money into your accounts? I tried opening a real money account but, found my credit card company doesn't allow internet gambling charges. Guess I could mail/wire it in but, haven't done it yet...

Just wondering on what everyone else is doing.

I use neteller.com. Works like paypal I believe, you link to a bank account and move funds from the bank to neteller, then from neteller to the casino site. It'll take a week or so to get set up for your first deposit. There's an insta-cash deposit thing on neteller but it carries a 7% fee so I wouldn't recommend using it :)

I have heard of people who do not really trust neteller and don't want to link anything like this to their checking accounts, but feel that neteller is still the best way to go, and they have opened up second checking accounts that is only used to funnel money back and forth between neteller and the bank for poker.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Radii
QS, that's almost entirely what I play when I play on party. It does seem to me that you're risking less for more gain.

I on rare occasions lose my entire $25 buyin. More often than anything, I buy in for $25 and leave with $25 to $40... and then on other occasions I leave with $50-$90.

The games are very interesting and require some adjusting to. Some tables there will be a pre-flop raise to $2 75% of the hands. On those tables you have to wait for great hands. Occasionally there are some very passive tables with virtually no pre-flop raising and you can loosen up signifigantly with your drawing hands.

When I sit at Party w/ two tables open, one of them is always a $25 NL table. The second one is sometimes another $25 NL table, sometimes a HE limit game, sometimes Omaha. But my most consistant winnings for the past two months have come from these $25 NL tables.

Interesting to hear.

I'm home sick today, and decided to try out the NL table. After about an hour, I have turned $25 into $80. Just mixing up my play when I have a good hand seems tobe enough, so far. (And not pushing mediocre hands is essential, too) For a smart, tight player this might be the best way to go.

Should I find a new table and reset to $25 to avoid looking like a shark?

[RPI-Fan]

When I've watched the tables, and read Radii's posts, it seems that it's tough to continue to win money when you're that high.

So yes, I'd recommend sitting down somewhere else with $25 (and you're still playing with the house's money just in this session).

~rpi-fan

[RPI-Fan]

Oh, and I didn't know companies ran a "Poker Leave" plan, QS.;)

<font size="1">Seriously, hope you get better soon.</font>

[sabotai]

"I was dipping on on Mrs Q's play last evening, when I saw a familiar face at her table - sabotai (under a slightly different name, but still identifiable)."

sabotaikhan is my handle

"She said hello to you (on my behalf), but I think you must have missed it - must have been very intently focused on the cards, eh?"

:D

I rarely watch a hand I'm not in. I don't want to get distracted by the "I would have won if I played" mentality. Makes me play loose.

I'll make sure to pay closer attention so I can say hi back next time. :D

[sabotai]

"As a note, how are you guys depositing money into your accounts?"

At PartyPoker, I used a site called Citadel. You have sign up, but lets you write an e-check so it gets taken out of your checking account.

[Radii]

I have definitely perceived that, once I hit a threshold around $80 or $90, I almost never push it over the top and hit $100 or $150+, although you do occasionally see stacks that large.

I honestly don't know if that has to do with my play when I'm up so much(do I get too loose when I have so much more money, for example, I don't know).

Perhaps I'm too conservative with the huge chip lead. Perhaps I try to push people around at the wrong times, I'm not sure. But when I hit $80 or $90, I have found that I rarely continue to improve.

[RPI-Fan]

Even if you could continue to maintain your $80-90 stack, or even slowly push over and past $100, how much good are you really doing?

If you sit back down with your $25 and get back up to $70 or 80 in an hour or two, why bother sitting with your large stack?

There doesn't really seem to be an advantage to stay with it (though one might guess that the theory of poker would indicate there would be) in practice, so why bother trying?

~rpi-fan

[Radii]

Well, it depends on the reason that I can't seem to push past that amount. If its because of my play, and it may well be, then it would be better for me to fix my play and stay as tight as necessary so that I can (occasionally) take advantage of my large stack and push people around a little bit. I think that it's my problem, really. Either I get too loose when i'm way up, or, I try to push people around too often and run into a good hand here and there and take a loss.


It really seems to me that having the large stack should be an advantage if you adjust your play properly to it.

[MJ4H]

Absolute Poker randomly awarded me $10 in my real money account through some promotion (though I never planned on paying a cent for online poker). So I have played two $2 sit and gos at Absolute Poker and finished first and second in them. Now I have $17.20 from an investment of ZERO. I guess I can live with that. I will continue to play these single table affairs because I pretty regularly win them and finish top three at least 60-70%. If I ever make it to say $50 I might move up and play the $5 sit and gos. Pretty cool to win money for free.

[BishopMVP]

Originally posted by MattJones4Heisman
Absolute Poker randomly awarded me $10 in my real money account through some promotion (though I never planned on paying a cent for online poker). So I have played two $2 sit and gos at Absolute Poker and finished first and second in them. Now I have $17.20 from an investment of ZERO. I guess I can live with that. I will continue to play these single table affairs because I pretty regularly win them and finish top three at least 60-70%. If I ever make it to say $50 I might move up and play the $5 sit and gos. Pretty cool to win money for free.

I'm thinking of trying to do that if I can finish Top 10 in a freeroll tournament. But hypothetically, if someone was between the ages of 18-21 would this be legal and could they withdraw the money without a credit card?;)

[Esquared1]

deleted message

[RPI-Fan]

FTR - you didn't have the right odds to call.;)

[Esquared1]

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
FTR - you didn't have the right odds to call.;)

you are right. :)

[sabotai]

I wish I had your luck. ;)

[TredWel]

Thought you guys might enjoy this story. I've been replaying it over and over in my head for the past few days.

The first few days of this week were very tough going for me. I had just cashed out some profits on Sunday, and was dealing with a bit of the "cashout curse". I was barely breaking even for a while.

So, a few days into the week, I'm playing my normal $1/$2 tables on Party, and pick up pocket queens one away from the button. There are a couple of early position limpers, the guy next to me limps in, and I raise. The button and blinds drop out, leaving me to tangle with the three limpers.

The flop is very nice for me, 9h 8c 5s. Two limpers check, and the third limper bets out. I want to make the hand as untenable for draws like gutshots and single overcards, so I raise. The two checkers call the bets cold, while the third guy decides to fold the hand then and there.

The turn is the 3d, an excellent card. Ruins all flush draws, and doesn't fill in any straight draws. They check to me, and I bet again. This bet leaves me heads-up against only one of the limpers.

The river is the 4c, a slight scare card. A single six will beat me now, but I don't think my opponent could have one. I think he's either on overcard draws, or a nine with a good kicker. He checks, and I bet. He calls. I turn up my pocket queens, and he turns up the 4 and 3 of hearts.

I'm hyperventilating over here.

He, in order:
1. Limped in in early position with 43s, and then called a raise by a late player.
2. Called two bets cold on the flop with nothing more than runner draws.
3. Called a bet on the turn by a player who's been aggressive at every point in this hand with nothing more than the absolute lowest pair.
4. ONLY called my bet when he made two pair on the river instead of becoming aggressive with an absolutely unreadable hand.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that he was cheating. I made a note in his player notes to watch out for him, and moved on.

That hand was the climactic low point of the week for me. My luck continued to be sour until Thursday, where the pendulum swung very far in the other direction. Now everything I touch turns to gold, and I'm about back to where I should be profitwise for the week.

[QuikSand]

I got a pretty good case of the "cashout curse" at PartyPoker. Not enough to make me believe in it, but certainly the correct timing to make me notice it.

[sabotai]

"The river is the 4c, a slight scare card. A single six will beat me now"

How would a 6 beat you? Just a 6 gives a 3-4-5-6. The other table cards were 8 and 9. That doesn't make a straight. Unless I'm missing something completely obvious.

And I've had situations like this happen before. Makes you want to put a fist through the screen. :)

[TredWel]

Er ... ignore that. My thoughts at the table was that a 6 would complete the straight, but that's not the case, and I probably thought the 9-8 on the board was actually an 8-7 for some reason.

Thanks. This can be quite annoying. Repeated outdraws on the river by players who have no reason to be there can be a draining exprience.

[Esquared1]

How are we doing on the tables recently?

[QuikSand]

I had a pretty bad few days online, and have been away since (not permanently, just colling off).

Had a great night with a small-scale home game last evening, though. Both Mrs. Q and I cleaned up pretty well.

[henry296]

How about some of the river hits on the World Series of Poker last night. Wow!!!!

[RPI-Fan]

For every river hit they show, though, there are dozens of predictable occurances. Keep in mind that they are showing an incredibly small portion of the actual hands played (smaller than, say, the WPT, which doesn't even show all that many).

With that said, it was nice to be able to watch while I sat in an airport last nite. Pretty entertaining - I'm certainly itching to see what happens next week.

[panerd]

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
For every river hit they show, though, there are dozens of predictable occurances. Keep in mind that they are showing an incredibly small portion of the actual hands played (smaller than, say, the WPT, which doesn't even show all that many).


I think this is my most enjoyable part of getting into online poker. I don't claim to be any sort of master at all, but I have some idea of what constitutes a good and bad hand. A lot of these guys watch WPT and the World Series of Poker and think that the pros go all-in to bluff on just about every hand. I am raking up in Partypoker's $5 and $10 NL tournaments. But I can't for the life of me ever have sucess at limit hold em. (I think I am way too conservative.)

[Radii]

After finally getting my bonus money off of AmericasCardRoom.com, I have moved on to better things and have played very well on the NL tables on party the past few days.


Oh, and FYI, PokerStars is doing a promotion for their next big tournament.. 20% bonus on any deposit up to $600 ($120 bonus). It is as easy to work off hands there as it is on PartyPoker from what I've seen. The deposit has to be made by Sunday. I went ahead and took some money out of Party and deposited $600 in to max my bonus and will start working off the hands tonight.

[Radii]

So I sat down at PokerStars to start working off these hands. I sat at two tables listed ".50/1 NL" expecting to see the equivalent of the $25 NL games on Party that I play. Turns out these were $100 NL games... max buyin of $100. That definitely extends my bankroll a little more than I'd like it to, but, I'm confident in my no limit game, and maybe feeling a little reckless tonight, so I stayed and plopped down the $100 at each table.

Two hours later I leave table #1 with $158, and table #2 with $230. Wowow. The level of play seems no different here than at the $25 NL Tables at party. I am definitely excited about the prospect of building my online poker bank up enough that I can comfortably sit in these games consistantly.