good lord, i was just kidding

[IMetTrentGreen]

i said in the heisman thread that tommie harris would be a heisman favorite. i was kidding, but craig james is not:

too bad he sucks (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/)

[k0ruptr]

I saw that, what the heck is he thinking, and where the hell is timmy chang ?! lol

[thealmighty]

Craig is an SMU Mustang. He is probably getting under-the-table payments to say that.

[tucker342]

Any time a defensive player is listed on a preseason heismen watch list, you know it's a farce. Defensive players do not win the heismen!

[Vegas Vic]

Fall practice report:

"Junior Tommie Harris continues to look unblockable, beating up on whichever ill fated offensive lineman is lined up across from him. If anything it appears Harris has heard the talk about him being an overrated player, and is out to prove more than one orange clad fan base wrong."

[sooner333]

Well, I think he's much, much better than he played last year. He's got the potential to be the best defensive player in the country this season. That being said, his chances to win the Heisman Trophy reside somewhere in between slim and none. If there was ever a case for a defensive player to win the Heisman it was Roy Williams in 2001 when Eric "I'm a marginal passer" Crouch actually won the Heisman. This isn't an MVP award, sure EC meant a ton to that Husker team who tailspined down the stretch. However, I think Roy Williams was the best player in the country. Sure, I'm a homer, but if you see the way he changed the scope of a game, you'd know what I'm talking about. The Lubbock Avalanche-Journal wrote, "Seventy-Five percent of the world is covered by water...the rest is covered by Roy Williams"

So looking back on historical precident, Harris won't win unless he scores TD's playing FB as well. You have to play both sides of the ball to win on defense. Otherwise, nobody will notice.

[JHandley]

Originally posted by tucker342
Any time a defensive player is listed on a preseason heismen watch list, you know it's a farce. Defensive players do not win the heismen!

Charles Woodson.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by JHandley
Charles Woodson.

Who won it for playing both ways if I remember correctly. Or at least he was a return stud. My memory betrays me on this one.

[JHandley]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Who won it for playing both ways if I remember correctly. Or at least he was a return stud. My memory betrays me on this one.

He just barely played both ways and while he was a good return man, he wasn't Desmond Howard good, he won it for some of the most remarkable interceptions I've ever seen.

[IMetTrentGreen]

"Junior Tommie Harris continues to look unblockable, beating up on whichever ill fated offensive lineman is lined up across from him. If anything it appears Harris has heard the talk about him being an overrated player, and is out to prove more than one orange clad fan base wrong."

blah blah blah. i heard the same thing last year. i heard "so-and-so is unblockable/unstoppable" reports out of norman every year. alls i know is what i see, and i see a DT who sucks. the end

[IMetTrentGreen]

"Well, I think he's much, much better than he played last year. He's got the potential to be the best defensive player in the country this season"

no he doesn't

" If there was ever a case for a defensive player to win the Heisman it was Roy Williams in 2001"

that i agree with. i think he deserved it

[ntndeacon]

Hugh Green Ought to have beaten out Goerge Rogers for the Heisman

[Vegas Vic]

It's amazing how IMetTrentGreen and numerous other Longhorn fanatics are obsessed with bashing Tommie Harris. It's almost like they never got over being beat out by OU in the recruiting battle for Harris.

I can hardly wait for the Rhett Bomar bashing to begin. OU steals yet another coveted Longhorn recruit, this time the #1 ranked QB in the nation.

[Huckleberry]

Originally posted by Vegas Vic
It's amazing how IMetTrentGreen and numerous other Longhorn fanatics are obsessed with bashing Tommie Harris. It's almost like they never got over being beat out by OU in the recruiting battle for Harris.

I can hardly wait for the Rhett Bomar bashing to begin. OU steals yet another coveted Longhorn recruit, this time the #1 ranked QB in the nation.

Calm down and try thinking before you post. I would venture to guess that a majority of your roster is from Texas. So the fact that he's from Texas obviously isn't it.

And if Bomar also receives preseason Heisman mention and is on the cover of magazines despite being the 3rd most productive QB on his own team he will also be criticized. Tommie Harris is overrated and the reason you see Longhorn fans pointing that out has a lot more to do with Chris Simms than the fact he's from Texas. That's right, the years of hearing about how overrated Simms and others are from Texas are coming home to roost. Harris is overrated, is now at best a "co-starter" at Oklahoma and wouldn't start at Texas either.

[scooper]

I'm not a fan of either, but I get a chuckle out of Texas fans talking smack to OU fans. Win one and it opens up, until then....

[Huckleberry]

So because Oklahoma has beaten Texas 3 years in a row, that means that I can't watch football games and see how players play?

Besides, I'd like you to point out exactly where anyone from Texas has "talked smack" to Oklahoma fans. Pointing out that Tommie Harris is the 3rd best DT on the Sooner squad is hardly talking smack.

[scooper]

It's not really anything you said, but there's quite a history of it here. And while it's not true smack, pointing out underachievers on OU's team smells of grasping for straws. Just my opinion.

[Huckleberry]

I don't think Tommie Harris is an underachiever. I think Tommie Harris is a very good football player. I just think the media talks about him too much. It all started with Brent Musberger fellating him in his debut. No big deal. And I'll tell you what, Harris was the most dominating blocker I've ever watched live in high school. Whenever Ellison High needed yards, they'd stick him at TE and run right behind him. And it always worked, with his man 6 yards downfield on a bad play. And that was with a bum ankle. He honestly didn't impress me on defense that much, especially compared to his offensive performance.

Besides, I think he could be the country's greatest DL if he lined up at SDE.

It's kind of like how the media keeps trying to tell me that Teddy Lehman is the best linebacker in the country. It's going to be difficult to convince me of that when he's not even the best linebacker on his own team.

[IMetTrentGreen]

ou could beat us 30 times in a row, and i'd still talk smack. i expect the same from them when we beat them. it's part of the rivalry

what huck said (where the hell did you come from, anyway?) is true, its that harris gets waaaaaaaaaaaaay to much pub which he doesn't deserve, simply because the media are idiots

i watched most of the unt game, and everytime i could find him on the field, he was not doing much. he can run sideline to sideline well, and occassionally he can use his one strength, quickness, to beat his man to the hole. otherwise he's uselss, which is why other guys are taking his playing time

[IMetTrentGreen]

"It's almost like they never got over being beat out by OU in the recruiting battle for Harris."

we did the next year, taking 5 DTs better than harris

bomar, however, hurt. good thing we have vincent young to fall back on

[scooper]

I will agree that the media are idiots. And that a lot of fans take what is said by them as gospel.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by ntndeacon
Hugh Green Ought to have beaten out Goerge Rogers for the Heisman

Same with Steve Emtman and Desmond Howard in '91. Desmond had the flashy kick returns and a good year catching the ball, but there's no way he was a better player or more key to his team's success than Emtman, who finished 4th.

[DeToxRox]

Woodson only had maybe 15 receptions and 120 yards on offense.

He was a playmaker, and a gamebreaker though, and that is why he won the Heisman and Manning did not. Ton's of QB's put up #'s like Manning's that year at smaller schools, so why he should win it when they didn't win the big one is beyond me.

[Huckleberry]

Maybe because the award is for the most outstanding player in college football, not for the best player on the best team in college football?

That's why Roy Williams clearly should have been the Heisman winner in 2001, despite the Sooners' losses to Nebraska and Oklahoma State.

[vex]

Clear as mud.

[Craptacular]

Yeah, that 70 ypg Roy put up was outstanding.

[GrantDawg]

David Pollack for Heisman!

[Huckleberry]

Originally posted by Craptacular
Yeah, that 70 ypg Roy put up was outstanding.

Hello, my name's reading comprehension, nice to meet you.

Why would I mention the Sooners' losses if I were talking about the Roy Williams who averaged 70 ypg?

[TroyF]

I only had a chance to see the OU/Alabama game briefly. There were a couple of series in the third quarter that showed me Harris is a damned good ballplayer. In an 11 play stretch that I watched, he beat his man (or men, he was doubled on 5 of the 11 during this stretch) 10 times.

Is he a Heisman candidate? No way. Is he as good as the Texas DT's? Ask me when I get the chance to see Texas play a real team. I also need to watch him play a full game to really evaluate him. I do know that if Texas has FIVE players better than the player I saw during that third quarter stretch, Texas should beat OU by 20 points.

TroyF

[Huckleberry]

Right, because we all know that football games are decided by conveniently selected 11 play stretches from one position on the field.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
Right, because we all know that football games are decided by conveniently selected 11 play stretches from one position on the field.

Nice sarcastic response. You bash others (and rightly so) for missing your comments about which Roy Williams you are talking about, yet skip the part of my post that says I need to watch him for a full game before I can give a fair evaluation of the guy?

I thought I made it VERY clear that it was only an 11 play stretch, that I needed to watch him more, that I needed to see Texas play a real team so I could evaluate their line and that I didn't think he was a Heisman candidate. What more do you want? Me to say he sucks ass because you and IMTG seem to think so?

Had I been trying to skew the truth, I could have just said that during the game I watched Harris drive into the offensive backfield on 10+ plays. Against a decent O-Line that would be a pretty impressive game.
I haven't seen Alabama this year either, so I have no idea how good their O-Line is. All I know is what I saw for that 11 play stretch (again, I made that very clear)

Even the final statement was worded with the comment "I do know that if Texas has FIVE players better than the player I saw during that third quarter stretch"

Cmon Huck, you're better than that. . .

TroyF

[Huckleberry]

You respond to a silly comment with an even sillier comment and try to take me to task for my response?

Please take me through the logical thought process through which having 5 players better than another team's co-starter at defensive tackle in his best 11 plays means that team should win by 20 points. This should be rich.

Basically, you are getting called on your little ploy to try and use Oklahoma's success against Texas as a way to critique any implication that Texas has better players at some positions than Oklahoma. Nice try.

Tommie Harris is a very good player. Big deal. On those 10 plays where he "beat his man", how many tackles did he make solo or assisted? Nearly every time I see him break through the line he's past the play. Not all that helpful to his team, especially when the OU defense is designed to have the DL engage the OL so that their LBs can clean up. And then this is on top of the fact that the 'Bama game was the best game of his career that I've seen. Which it should be, as he's healthy and not expected to play all game at DT anymore.

I would love to have Tommie Harris on my team. But he wouldn't start for me at defensive tackle. He might be able to earn that position, but based on what I've seen, he certainly wouldn't start out there. I'd be tempted to bump him out to strongside DE.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
You respond to a silly comment with an even sillier comment and try to take me to task for my response?

Please take me through the logical thought process through which having 5 players better than another team's co-starter at defensive tackle in his best 11 plays means that team should win by 20 points. This should be rich.

Basically, you are getting called on your little ploy to try and use Oklahoma's success against Texas as a way to critique any implication that Texas has better players at some positions than Oklahoma. Nice try.

Tommie Harris is a very good player. Big deal. On those 10 plays where he "beat his man", how many tackles did he make solo or assisted? Nearly every time I see him break through the line he's past the play. Not all that helpful to his team, especially when the OU defense is designed to have the DL engage the OL so that their LBs can clean up. And then this is on top of the fact that the 'Bama game was the best game of his career that I've seen. Which it should be, as he's healthy and not expected to play all game at DT anymore.

I would love to have Tommie Harris on my team. But he wouldn't start for me at defensive tackle. He might be able to earn that position, but based on what I've seen, he certainly wouldn't start out there. I'd be tempted to bump him out to strongside DE.

There wasn't any ploy. If Texas has FIVE defensive tackles that can rip through the line like the Tommie Harris I saw during that third quarter, there is no way Oklahoma should be able to move the football. They wouldn't have a single offensive lineman free to cover a blitz or to handle Johnson when he's pounding the running backs lights out. (and I do think of the two teams, Johnson is the best defensive player I've seen, he's an incredible talent) Even if I say you can only start two of the DT's, you've just eliminated the OU G-C-G interior line, with the two ends getting one on one matchups.

I have no problem saying that Texas is better than OU at some positions. Hell, you can say they are better at EVERY position if you want to. It doesn't matter who has the better players, it matters who wins the game. (see: Texas vs. OU, OU vs. OSU, CU vs. CSU)

But if you're telling me that you have 5 DL better than the Tommie Harris I saw the other night, there is no way OU should move the ball an inch. The Harris I saw was collapsing the pocket had at least one tackle and forced another two Alabama runners to the outside (where they were swarmed under) He was dominant during that stretch. Again, maybe he wouldn't be for an entire game. Maybe he does overrun play after play. Maybe he should play DE, not DT. Maybe he should be a starting OT. I've never really paid attention to him that much. The main reason is the past couple of years he hasn't been a superstar on the field. (it was much more fun watching Roy Williams two years ago and Brandon Everage last year) Saturday night, during the stretch I watched, he was. He made me stand up and take notice not because I was watching him because of this thread, but because he was dominating the Alabama line. Take it for what it's worth.

TroyF