new Jason Whitlock article

[bigdawg2003]

The NCAA is rotting (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/whitlock/030821.html)

I'm interested to hear what y'all think of this article. I remember some people saying they hated Whitlock's articles, but what about this one. We all know that this will never happen, but if it did, would you support it? I have an idea of what the majority will be...........

[FishFan]

While his ideas are extreme, I would have to agree with him that the NCAA is a pile of rotten mold. It is the worst athletic association on the face of the earth. Even worse than the IOC.

[dawgfan]

The problem with his proposal, and with any proposal that involves paying the players, is that there isn't enough money to do so. As it stands right now, with no payment of players, there are very few athletic departments that make a profit; most athletic departments have to get subsidies from the main campus, which means public subsidy in the case of the state schools.

Do you really think in an era of increasing budget crises in our colleges and universities that more money will be willingly allocated to subsidize paid athletes?

Even in the schools that are breaking even or making a profit, if they now are allowed to pay their football and basketball players that cuts into their profits, meaning they either have to start asking for subsidy from the state or they have to cut down on the non-revenue sports.

Paying football and basketball players will mean the loss of more non-revenue sports programs - you know, the ones that are most representative of the true student/athlete ideal promoted by the NCAA.

Here's an idea - what if college football and basketball were forced to get by on far fewer (or no) scholarships and/or forced students to have the same academic criteria for entry as any other student? What would happen if most or all of the athletes were paying their own way (or were on an academic scholarship)? This would undoubtably foster the creation of professional minor leagues, as there would be a significant number of talented athletes that wouldn't be able to afford college tuitions or qualify for academic scholarships, and would be highly tempted to skip college and play professionally.

[Franklinnoble]

Whitlock isn't nearly as bad as some of the other Page 2 garbage, and his idea sounds pretty good to me.

Unfortunately, it, like a college football playoff, will never happen.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by dawgfan
The problem with his proposal, and with any proposal that involves paying the players, is that there isn't enough money to do so. As it stands right now, with no payment of players, there are very few athletic departments that make a profit; most athletic departments have to get subsidies from the main campus, which means public subsidy in the case of the state schools.

Do you really think in an era of increasing budget crises in our colleges and universities that more money will be willingly allocated to subsidize paid athletes?

Even in the schools that are breaking even or making a profit, if they now are allowed to pay their football and basketball players that cuts into their profits, meaning they either have to start asking for subsidy from the state or they have to cut down on the non-revenue sports.

Paying football and basketball players will mean the loss of more non-revenue sports programs - you know, the ones that are most representative of the true student/athlete ideal promoted by the NCAA.

Here's an idea - what if college football and basketball were forced to get by on far fewer (or no) scholarships and/or forced students to have the same academic criteria for entry as any other student? What would happen if most or all of the athletes were paying their own way (or were on an academic scholarship)? This would undoubtably foster the creation of professional minor leagues, as there would be a significant number of talented athletes that wouldn't be able to afford college tuitions or qualify for academic scholarships, and would be highly tempted to skip college and play professionally.

Are you kidding? Once they open the doors, the money will roll in. Endorsement deals for college athletes would be legal... the school gets a percentage of that. Ka Ching! They make NCAA basketball and football formal developmental leagues for the NBA and NFL - this is good for the pros, as they get fewer high schoolers that take four years and millions of dollars to "groom" - and money comes in from this deal as well.

Once they drop this amateur athlete charade, all kinds of cash can come in, legally, to all the participating colleges.

[JHandley]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Are you kidding? Once they open the doors, the money will roll in. Endorsement deals for college athletes would be legal... the school gets a percentage of that. Ka Ching! They make NCAA basketball and football formal developmental leagues for the NBA and NFL - this is good for the pros, as they get fewer high schoolers that take four years and millions of dollars to "groom" - and money comes in from this deal as well.

Once they drop this amateur athlete charade, all kinds of cash can come in, legally, to all the participating colleges.

That's fine for the top 20-30 programs, but the other 80 are screwed and screwed badly. People complain about how hard it is for the mid-major's to compete with the BCS schools now, if you start paying players, they are dead in the water.

I don't have a solution for the problem, however, I don't believe creating minor league football or basketball is going to fly. There will be simply no interest in it. The biggest draw to college sports are the colleges and the traditions.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by JHandley
That's fine for the top 20-30 programs, but the other 80 are screwed and screwed badly. People complain about how hard it is for the mid-major's to compete with the BCS schools now, if you start paying players, they are dead in the water.

I don't have a solution for the problem, however, I don't believe creating minor league football or basketball is going to fly. There will be simply no interest in it. The biggest draw to college sports are the colleges and the traditions.

The other 80 are already screwed badly. Let's just admit it, make it legal, and move on.

If some rich alumnus wants to make his alma matter a college football powerhouse, he can do it, without having to end up in court over it.

The other colleges will get along fine, just as they always have.

[JHandley]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
The other 80 are already screwed badly. Let's just admit it, make it legal, and move on.

If some rich alumnus wants to make his alma matter a college football powerhouse, he can do it, without having to end up in court over it.

The other colleges will get along fine, just as they always have.

Kinda like in baseball? ;)

[Franklinnoble]

You mean pro baseball, I assume?

If you wanted parity, you could always apply an NFL-style "salary cap" taken as a percentage of the TV revenue that all Div. I teams would be forced to share. But that would require pretty much a wholesale enema of the entire system, as most TV contracts are determined on a local and conference basis.

[JHandley]

And again, the rich would get richer and the poor get poorer, which is exactly the problem with pro baseball.

All I'm saying is, to say that paying college football and baseketball players is the answer. That answer leads to the same problems that baseball has. Why come up with a solution that just leads to more problems?

[sterlingice]

Well, this is a typical Whitlock article. He likes to live in a dream world. (he writes for the KC Star, btw, so I seem his article's regularly)

There are two huge problems here: first, cash does become scarce, because of point number two. Second, what would Title IX lawyers do if this happened? Could you see the legal hissy fit if men's basketball players were paid but women's weren't? And they would have a pretty good legal case.

Also, do you think Keith Traylor gives a damn that he would be getting $40K and that would have kept him from going there and Michigan boosters from paying him to go there. Wasn't there a joke about how he and a bunch of other Michigan players took a pay cut when they went into the NBA?

SI

[Samdari]

Originally posted by FishFan
While his ideas are extreme, I would have to agree with him that the NCAA is a pile of rotten mold. It is the worst athletic association on the face of the earth. Even worse than the IOC.
As much distaste as the NCAA causes me, this is not even close. The IOC is far more corrupt.

[KWhit]

I went to college at a conservatory that didn't have a core curriculum. I majored in musical theatre (okay make all the jokes you want now).

The point I wanted to make was that I didn't take any science, math, history classes, etc. I only had to take acting classes, music classes and others that directly tied to my major.

What would be wrong with a college offering a major in Football? If a "student" is going to school just to get a shot at the NFL, why not give them a degree in it (which is basically what they're doing now, they just can't be truthful about it). Just let the kids get credit hours for going to practice, watching film, etc.

But paying the athlete? No way.

This is from the article:
When I was playing football at Ball State in the late 1980s, we had a brilliant tight end, a kid named Ron Duncan... He sat at study table one night and calculated the number of hours we spent on football-related activities and divided that number into the worth of our full scholarship. I don't remember the exact figure, but he had us earning less than $3 an hour.

What the hell? He's essentially complaining that he's ONLY earning $3 an hour for his extra-curricular activities. Give me a break! No one was making him play football. He was doing it because it was benefitting him as well. There's a serios problem with people having a bad sense of entitlement in this country and this is another example of it.


Sorry if this was rambling and made no sense. I'm tired.

[kcchief19]

There are so many things wrong with this i'm not sure where to start.

Pickup up where Kwhit left off, Whitless was complaining about "making" $3 an hour playing football when I was making $3 an hour at an actual job. And if he thinks that Ball State would have paid him to play, he's dreaming. The Ball States would never have the money to pay anyway.

Forget coming up with a plan to pay for this. Forget that this would exacerbate the current problems, helping the rich schools stay rich and making the poor schools even poorer in terms of talent. Forget the outcry over how basketball players make more than football players, women not getting paid, etc. His whole reason for this plan is to prevent another Bliss-style episode. Yet by his own word, his plan wouldn't work: "Obviously, there would still be cheating. A booster could still give a recruit's aunt a $50,000-a-year, no-show job. But there would be a lot less hypocrisy. "

So, it's OK that there will still be cheating and it's OK if another player gets shot and his coach paints him as a drug dealer, but as long as there is less hypocrisy, that's good. Please.

I also don't like the implications that the NCAA or "the system" drove Bliss to what he did. That bastard walked straight into hell all by himself. Nobody made him sell his soul to the devil. If he felt that he couldn't win at Baylor without cheating, lying and committing inhumane acts, he could have quit and gotten a job as a janitor. At least that's honest work.

The NCAA is far from perfect, don't get me wrong. But it's not "rotting." It is stronger than ever. It's a powerful cash-cow. Is it morally corrupt? I don't think so. Blaming the institution of the NCAA is like blaming democracy for having a president who lies to the American people. Due to all the presidential scandals of the last 30 years, should we throw out democracy because of a few bad seeds?

I think the NCAA's only major problem is that it attempts to make its rules black & white when there are shades of gray. It's OK for Coach K to have kids over to his house for pizza, but Rick Majerus can't take his players to his hotel where he lives for dinner. Granted, it is easier and more fair to make black & white rules that says that pay-for-play is as guilty as giving a kid money to fly home for Christmas. But the NCAA could use a bit more compassion.

In the end, however, college athletes are far from neglected. The ones who do it for the fun of it (your wrestler, lacrosse, etc. players) sure don't complain. The only ones who complain are the upper echelon players on the money sports, namely basketball and football. These kids have access to a college education, tutors that other students would kill for, first-class training facilities, a chance to make it to the pros and an opportunity to play in front of thousands of fans. Boo-hoo.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by sterlingice
Well, this is a typical Whitlock article. He likes to live in a dream world.

Hmm, I figured Whitlock likes to live at the Krispy Kreme drive-through.

(I know...that wasn't very nice :) )

[GrantDawg]

I love college football. I love the tradition, the pageantry, the fact so many of these kids aren't playing for the next level, but for the love of the game. The crowds are better. The total atmosphere is better. The sense of excitement is better than any other level of sport.

All that being said, college football does not best represent the 15-20% of player’s that sole purpose in playing is to go to the next level. There are many kids playing football who can play the game well, but have no business in an university. Not everyone belongs in college, whether it is because they do not have the IQ or they do not have the desire to go. There should be a better alternative for that player.

I think the NFL needs to start a minor league system. It will not be a moneymaker, but it will be in the long run because more quality football players would be developed. This would hurt college football talent wise, but would be better for the players and the NFL in the long run.