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BishopMVP
08-24-2003, 11:27 PM
With college starting in about a week, my parents are buying me a computer. Even though it means I can't play TCY/CM in classes, I decided against a laptop because a desktop is much cheaper and also less likely to be stolen. I looked through some old threads and decided to check out cyberpowerpc.com. Currently I have this setup picked out and was wondering if someone here who knows more about computers (99% of you) could look over it and tell me if I'm missing anything important or getting ripped-off somewhere. I probably won't use it for graphical games that much since I have a PS2 for Madden/NCAA and those are really the only non-text sims I play.

CASE - AHANIX Platnium XP Case 350Watt w/ "See Through Window" & Neon Light
CPU - Intel Pentium 4 Processor @ 2.8 GHz 800 FSB
Motherboard - (DDR400-800MHz FSB)Albatron I865PE 800MHz FSB AGP 8X Platform Mainboard
MEMORY - 512 MB (256MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY
Memory Upgrade - None
Thermal Display - None
Flash Media Reader/Writer - Internal 6in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
Cooling Fan - AMD Certified CPU fan & Heatsink
Hard Drive - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 Hard Drive
Video Card - nVidia GeForce-FX 5600 256MB DDR W/ TV OUT & DVI
DVD-ROM - 16X DVD ROM
CD-RW - CD-RW 52x24x52
Monitor & LCD - ViewSonic VG800 18" ACTIVE MATRIX TFT LCD Monitor (((Felt the Flat-Screen is important w/limited desk space)))
Sound - AC97 3D WAVE On-Board Sound Card
Speakers - 480WATT SUBWOOFER Stereo Speakers
MODEM - PCI 56K V.90 FAX Modem w/Voice
Floppy - 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
ZIP - 250 MB Internal ZIP Drive
Network - 3 COM 905 BTX NM 10/100 NIC
Wireless - None
Keyboard - WIRELESS CHIEFTEC black keyboard & mouse combo
OS - Windows XP Professional
Office Suite - Microsoft Works 7.0
Software - Norton Anti-Virus Ver 5.0 Engine
Printer/MP3 Player/IEEE Card/Rounded Cable/Scanner - None
Service - 3-YR Standard Warranty PLUS 1-YR ONSITE Service


Just a note for CPU, all options were P4, but processing speed/price were as follows: 2.4GHz=$965, 2.6GHz=$999, 2.8GHz=$1069, 3.0GHz=1209, 3.2GHz=1485. Should I stay at 2.8? Go higher/lower?

All told, this comes out to just under $1,700 without shipping.

Any help anyone can give, even if it is just a "Yeah, that looks fine" would be appreciated.:)
MizzouRah
08-24-2003, 11:59 PM
"Yeah, looks fine" :)

Nice pc setup, imo. I would go with 1 GB of Ram if it's not too expensive over getting a higher speed processor. As long as it's 800 FSB, I don't think you'd notice much difference from 2.8 -> 3.2 .vs. adding another 512 meg of RAM. Again, my personal opinion.

Do you really use a Zip drive? Not sure how much more a USB 2.0 external HD is than a Zip, but faster and can store tons more data for easy transfer from/to other pc's.

My mom bought me a Radio Shack TRS-80 color computer for my 11th birthday... ahhh the memories... :)


Todd
mckerney
08-25-2003, 12:02 AM
What I'd do:


<html>CASE - AHANIX Platnium XP Case 350Watt w/ "See Through Window" & Neon Light
CPU - Intel Pentium 4 Processor @ 2.8 GHz 800 FSB
Motherboard - (DDR400-800MHz FSB)Albatron I865PE 800MHz FSB AGP 8X Platform Mainboard
MEMORY - 512 MB (256MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY
Memory Upgrade - None
Thermal Display - None
Flash Media Reader/Writer - Internal 6in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
Cooling Fan - AMD Certified CPU fan & Heatsink
<s>Hard Drive - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 Hard Drive</s> I've heard hard drives this large can be slow, so if you need this much space I'd go with two smaller harddrives instead. This also gives you the advantage of running windows off one and games off another
Video Card - nVidia GeForce-FX 5600 256MB DDR W/ TV OUT & DVI
DVD-ROM - 16X DVD ROM
CD-RW - CD-RW 52x24x52
Monitor & LCD - ViewSonic VG800 18" ACTIVE MATRIX TFT LCD Monitor (((Felt the Flat-Screen is important w/limited desk space)))
Sound - AC97 3D WAVE On-Board Sound Card
<s>Speakers - 480WATT SUBWOOFER Stereo Speakers</s> Once again I will pimp this system (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10333157&hdwt=30810&loc=101)
MODEM - PCI 56K V.90 FAX Modem w/Voice
<s>Floppy - 1.44 MB Floppy Drive</s>
<s>ZIP - 250 MB Internal ZIP Drive</s> The computer I just got has no floppy or zip drive, as I opted to go with removable USB flash drives instead
Network - 3 COM 905 BTX NM 10/100 NIC
Wireless - None
<s>Keyboard - WIRELESS CHIEFTEC black keyboard & mouse combo</s> This (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10345509&hdwt=30807&loc=101&sp=1) is the same or similar to the Logitech combo I plan on buying soon
OS - Windows XP Professional
Office Suite - Microsoft Works 7.0
Software - Norton Anti-Virus Ver 5.0 Engine
Printer/MP3 Player/IEEE Card/Rounded Cable/Scanner - None
Service - 3-YR Standard Warranty PLUS 1-YR ONSITE Service


Edit: also make sure it has something like 8 USB 2.0 ports and 2 firewire.
hollmt
08-25-2003, 12:07 AM
hey bishop...i work in computer sales so heres my opinion...
1) find out what the max memory can support..more the better....the new apples coming out can support 8 gig of ram and some other home pcs can support 3 to 4...
2) the 6-in-1 memory card..in all honesty is not worth the money..first of all, one of the better cameras (olympus) doesnt even fit in those 6-in-1..it takes XD cards...and you can just stream the info from your camera to your tower via firewire..dont waste the money..see if you can get it taken out or not added.
3) the video card is nice for the ability to watch your tv on your tower...nice little tool if you need the extra space and dont have room for a teli.
4) viewsonic makes nice LCD..with good contrast ratio..you wont be dissapointed.
5) lose the floppy...might save 10 bucks on cost of the tower..no need for it anyway....lose the zip drive too...nobody used it anymore..you surely wont have a need for it.
6) windows xp pro...save money again and just get home unless you plan on networking many many pcs...contrary to what most salesman will tell you..you dont need pro to network...UNLESS YOU PLAN ON NETWORKING MULTIPLE PCS...you can do a peer to peer with home.
7) use the money you will save on the 6-in-1 and get the wireless card in your pc..cost..60-80 bucks.
8) the wireless keyboard and mice are nice..but use alot of battery power..if you go that route..invest in a battery charger..or you will pay out your arse for batteries every 2 weeks.
9) unless you need the see through case..just get a standard case and save your parents some money...it adds nothing but eye candy...

all in all...sound like a decent price..id toss the floppy, zip, and 6-in1- and get the wireless or get more ram...512 more ran you can get for 120-140. one more thing..microsoft works will do you no good..youll need office..get it at school..dont buy from retail..you should get nice discount with validated id from school.
Chief Rum
08-25-2003, 12:10 AM
I agree about the RAM. Get a GIG. The setup looks pretty sweet (not a bad price either, considering you are also getting a flatscreen monitor).

Noticed you're going with onboard sound. I'm not an expert on sound cards, but I always thought onboard sound wasn't all that hot. You might consider getting a Soundblaster or something to make sure you can get quality sound from your ROM drives and in movies (as it seems liekly you'll be able to use this like a mini-movie set if you like).

Also, you may not plan on doing graphics style programs, but the only thing I am seeing there that might potentially get in the way of getting graphics-intensive console-style games is perhaps that sound issue. Your graphics card and what your computer can handle is plenty for the games nowadays, and should be good for at least another year of top of the line and good for general computer use for the remainder of a normal stay in college. :)

CR
sterlingice
08-25-2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by hollmt 3) the video card is nice for the ability to watch your tv on your tower...nice little tool if you need the extra space and dont have room for a teli.
I've had fun with my Radeon AIW. I have it hooked up through my VCR so I can watch what I download on tv as well as my computer.

5) lose the floppy...might save 10 bucks on cost of the tower..no need for it anyway....lose the zip drive too...nobody used it anymore..you surely wont have a need for it.
I don't know- I run win2K and occasionally having a boot disk is very handy, especially since I doubt they will knock off any price. As for a zip drive, unless you have a real use for one, don't bother messing with it. I have one because some of the machines in the engineering labs have them but that's pretty limited use.
EDIT: Especially at $75 for the zip drive. They aren't commonly used anymore and you can get them for $20 on ebay.

8) the wireless keyboard and mice are nice..but use alot of battery power..if you go that route..invest in a battery charger..or you will pay out your arse for batteries every 2 weeks.
I have a cordless optical mouse and it's great! That said, I have a battery charger (rayovak renewals) where I rotate 8 batteries between 3 different things (remote, wavebird gamecube controller) and the mouse ones I have to swap out every two or three weeks depending on how many hours I spend on the comp.

9) unless you need the see through case..just get a standard case and save your parents some money...it adds nothing but eye candy...
Definately have to agree here. I guess if you want it to look very cool, go ahead, but I'm guessing this adds $50 or so to your cost that you don't really need.
EDIT: Never mind, I just went to the site and see you save nothing by changing.

I also agree with both people that extra memory would easily trump a faster processor. You've clearly hit the sweet spot for CPU prices (if you drop down you don't save that much but if you go up, you'll be paying too much for too little).

Double that memory for $50. I've never heard of Albatron, but I haven't looked at mobos for about a year. I'd pay $40 and upgrade to the Asus, but not before doing some reading at www.extremetech.com and www.tomshardware.com.

Since the 6in1 memory reader is free, run with it. I'd suggest a combo DVD-CDRW drive to save an IDE slot and throw a second hard drive in it that you buy retail (they charge too much for a second).

I'm not sure how much of an audiophile you are, but I'd consider getting the Audigy 5.1 over the onboard sound- it's $70 but supposedly will make quite a difference. I know nothing about speakers so I can't tell you where to go here. But if you're going to upgrade the sound card, you should probably get some decent speakers (tho, the $250 ones mckerney showed might be a tad much- paying 20% of your system cost in speakers is high unless you really like music/sound).

SI
Ryan S
08-25-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by mckerney
<s>Hard Drive - 120GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 Hard Drive</s> I've heard hard drives this large can be slow, so if you need this much space I'd go with two smaller harddrives instead. This also gives you the advantage of running windows off one and games off another

Actually, I think it is the other way around. For every doubling of capacity, performance is up to 10% better. So bigger is always better.
daedalus
08-25-2003, 04:44 AM
Definitely agree with the RAM increase advice, as well as Sterling's advice of paying extra for either an Abit or an Asus motherboard. I'd also second the thing about keeping the floppy drive and ditching the Zip. If you really will have need for large removable storage, consider one of those little key that plugs into your USB ports. If you'll be staying in the dorms, you may be able to save some money by dropping the modem since you'll likely be connecting to the network anyway. Another money saver if you intend to be in the dorms, would be to cut out the speakers since you wouldn't or at least shouldn't be blasting it anyway. You might consider snagging yourself a decent headphone, though.

As an aside, unless you're really set against a laptop or the price would become prohibitive, I'd really suggest giving laptops a consideration. You *would* be responsible for doing more to protect it from being stolen or lost but just the convenience of being able to take your work with you if you decide to do any work or study away from your room is huge. The two situations where I found myself wishing I had a laptop instead were when we'd go study in the library or go do some work at someone's place.
sterlingice
08-25-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by daedalus
Definitely agree with the RAM increase advice, as well as Sterling's advice of paying extra for either an Abit or an Asus motherboard. I'd also second the thing about keeping the floppy drive and ditching the Zip. If you really will have need for large removable storage, consider one of those little key that plugs into your USB ports. If you'll be staying in the dorms, you may be able to save some money by dropping the modem since you'll likely be connecting to the network anyway. Another money saver if you intend to be in the dorms, would be to cut out the speakers since you wouldn't or at least shouldn't be blasting it anyway. You might consider snagging yourself a decent headphone, though.

Sorry, to threadjack but has anyone tried using one of those key drives before? I'm curious how well they work (ie do you need drivers on the machines you are working on, do they damage easily, etc) but haven't thrown down the cash since I have to support my gaming habit in the next six months (I'm looking at possbily 6 Gamecube games to get starting tomorrow with F-Zero and I can't afford them all).

SI
pjstp20
08-25-2003, 07:20 AM
I was very interested in a Cyberpower PC (high end machine for a midrange price) before I saw their users review on cnet.com. Apparently their tech support is crap and the actual construction of their machines, is shotty. Not trying to discourage you from cyberpower just giving you a heads up. Since I can get the computer of my dreams for around 1700 I'm still keeping hope alive, so if you do decide to go with them I'd be interested to know how it works out for you.
Samdari
08-25-2003, 07:21 AM
I don't understand why people want to ditch floppies. They cost $10 and you gain nothing by ditching it. There are still times it is convenient to use.

Also, I'll chime in with others on the RAM. I'd suggest a 2x512 = 1MB congfiguration. Whatever you do, don't get the 2x256 configuration. You WILL need more RAM at some point, and getting 2x256 likely means you will be throwing those away to updgrade. If you have to only get 512MB, get one stick and upgrading is easier.
pjstp20
08-25-2003, 07:41 AM
Here's the link to my above post for your convienence: link (http://reviews.cnet.com/CyberPower_X_Treme_Titanium/4852-3119_7-20167840.html?tag=subnav)

Some people also mention the customer service is weak i.e.) delayed and incomplete orders. I'd still be willing to give it a try though. I rarely use tech support anyways.
KWhit
08-25-2003, 10:09 AM
Agreed with the folks who say keep the floppy drive. The convenience is definitely worth 10 bucks.
Draft Dodger
08-25-2003, 10:33 AM
not only is the floppy a nice $10 convenience, keep in mind he's in school - every thing I've had to hand in at school has needed to be on floppy (granted, I'm taking computer science classes).

I don't like the built in flash reader - as someone else said, you can get an external reader that's probably cheaper, and more replaceable

my thoughts on HD - the bigger, the better. And I think 512 of RAM is plenty - you can always upgrade later if you want.

not so keen on the onboard sound, but, again, you can upgrade down the road if you need. I also like logitech's wireless stuff (typing on one now).

anyone find this interesting?:
"CPU - Intel Pentium 4 Processor @ 2.8 GHz 800 FSB"
"Cooling Fan - AMD Certified CPU fan & Heatsink"

btw, the 865 is a nice motherboard (again, except for the onboard audio which is reportedly to be only "fair") - beyond the little nitpicking here, I think you've got a solid system.
Godzilla Blitz
08-25-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by sterlingice
Sorry, to threadjack but has anyone tried using one of those key drives before?

Are you talking about the removable USB flash drives?

If you are, they are fantastic! They're little things that plug into a USB port. They're fast, require no drivers, and are easy to carry around. Another plus (for me anyway) is that they are Mac/PC compatible.

I used to use Zip drives for two things: temporary backup for small ongoing projects (faster than burning to CD every day), and for portability between different locations (easy to carry a Zip drive around).

In both cases, the flash drives are better than the Zip drives.
Franklinnoble
08-25-2003, 11:41 AM
Bah... Here's an IT pro's opinion:

- XP Home is an emaciated version of XP Pro. Keep the Pro version.

- The RAM increase everyone is touting is a good idea.

- Keep the floppy. You can't boot from a USB flash drive in a pinch. Lose the ZIP, though - nobody really uses them, and USB flash is more universal.

- MS Works is a weak Office suite. If you don't wanna lay out the cash for Office XP, get the latest from http://www.openoffice.org/

Everything else is cool.
Tasan
08-25-2003, 12:15 PM
One other thing. If you can, avoid buying software like XP or Office til you get to school, if you can wait that long. Most, if not all by now, colleges will offer GREATLY reduced pricing on those. My friend works for the local University school system, and he can get XP for $20 from the University since his employee ID gives him the same powers as a student one.
mckerney
08-25-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Franklinnoble
- Keep the floppy. You can't boot from a USB flash drive in a pinch. Lose the ZIP, though - nobody really uses them, and USB flash is more universal.

You can from a CD though. I'm much happier using my USB flash drive than floppy disks.



- MS Works is a weak Office suite. If you don't wanna lay out the cash for Office XP, get the latest from http://www.openoffice.org/

I would usually say this, but he is getting the computer for college and I believe at many colleges you can get student discounts for Microsoft Office. Better off waiting until he gets to school.
Franklinnoble
08-25-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by mckerney
You can from a CD though. I'm much happier using my USB flash drive than floppy disks.


His particular system may be CD-bootable, but not all PCs are. Until every PC is, it's best to keep floppies around - just in case. And it's really not a significant expense. Just my opinion.
BishopMVP
08-25-2003, 03:56 PM
Thanks for everyone who has responded so far. I'll try responding individually when I go home in a couple days, but right now I'm on "Vacation" in Maine and using a PowerMac G3 w/56k that keeps crashing so I'll just go over a few things.

-Dropped the ZIP, added the RAM up to 1024MB. These two almost wash out.

-The Floppy Drive I'll need since I won't be getting a printer and instead relying on the schools unless my roomate or someone nearby has one.

-I'll look into the Motherboard and Sound issues a little more before deciding. Is there any big difference between Albatron vs. AIDA/Aisis. I'll check those links too.

-The OS I'm definitely getting XP with it, since I don't want to take chances there, and the school website recommended XP Professional, so I think I'll stick with it.

-I'll probably end up getting Office at school cheaper than on this site ($170/$270.) Works is $7 and that would even be worth it as a safety net to use for papers if there is some problem with supply or, more likely, I procrastinate and don't end up getting Office for a couple weeks.
MizzouRah
08-25-2003, 08:04 PM
If you have to only get 512MB, get one stick and upgrading is easier.

Good advice, forgot to add that.


Todd
Chief Rum
08-25-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Draft Dodger
anyone find this interesting?:
"CPU - Intel Pentium 4 Processor @ 2.8 GHz 800 FSB"
"Cooling Fan - AMD Certified CPU fan & Heatsink"


That's so funny. I remembered thinking the same thing when I saw that.

I thought maybe it wasn't AMD AMD, if you know what I mean, but some other lesser-known AMD that specializes in fans and heatsinks. :)

CR
Daimyo
08-25-2003, 08:57 PM
If this is for school make sure you check their support requirements. They could be really general, but some schools are pretty specific on what they will and won't support (assuming you get at least support for your network connection, probably won't get, much else). I would highly reccomend reconsidering on the laptop though. Especially if your school has gone wireless. A laptop on a wireless campus is truly a winderful and convienient thing.
BishopMVP
08-25-2003, 11:16 PM
For anyone who wants to go and see all the options, the link is http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/highendsystem/dboxspecial.htm

Sound - I don't expect it to be great sound, but I've never had a problem with how songs or DVD's sound on either of the computers we own now, so I don't think I need to upgrade that part of the system. As long as I never listen to great sound, I won't know what I'm missing.

pjstp20 - I'll definitely let you know after I receive but that probably won't be for a week or two. The "shoddy construction of computers" scares me some, but the tech support I won't use as long as it works. It also seems to be a love it/hate it thing so hopefully I'll get lucky.

Daimyo - The UMass tech support website isn't the most informative, but I know they have ethernet jacks in every room, so the 10/100 card should cover that.

Everyone on the laptop issue - I definitely do see your point, and UMass appears to be wireless on most of the campus, but I know that I'm the type of person that would end up using it more for the internet/to play games with when I'm bored in class than to go to the library and study with. I don't have a problem with noise when I'm studying, so just sitting in my room typing papers shouldn't be a problem.

I'm probably going to order this computer tomorrow or Wednesday to make sure it doesn't get here while I'm still in Maine, which means I'll probably be without it the first week of college, probably a good thing. I don't think my college professors will be assigning me papers due the first week. I'll edit the first post when I order it to reflect the final options and then whenever I get it, I'll report back to let everyone who is interested in ordering from cyberpower know how it went.
thealmighty
08-25-2003, 11:19 PM
If you are getting a $1700 computer from your parents, why aren't you getting a printer?

You can get a decent one for well under $100. They come in handy at 3 in the morning, imho.
BishopMVP
08-25-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by thealmighty
If you are getting a $1700 computer from your parents, why aren't you getting a printer?

You can get a decent one for well under $100. They come in handy at 3 in the morning, imho.

The main reasons are (probable) lack of space and also the fact I can just take one of the old ones from my house if I decide I need one, because I'll only be using it for papers.

I do know all about the 3 AM part though. That was probably on the early side for finishing the few big papers I needed for school this year.
thealmighty
08-25-2003, 11:33 PM
"I'll only be using it for papers."

What about the porn listings for cable. They won't be in TV Guide, for some unfathomable reason, so you will need to print them out.
daedalus
08-25-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Bah... Here's an IT pro's opinion:

- XP Home is an emaciated version of XP Pro. Keep the Pro version.Ooh, sorry for this brief threadjack . . .

Why? I'm not trying to start a fight, just asking because 1) I still run 95SE on my POS Celeron 466 so I've never tinker with XP and 2) instinctively, I'd always think, "yeah, go with PRO over HOME" although I couldn't say why on XP.

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Are you talking about the removable USB flash drives?

If you are, they are fantastic! They're little things that plug into a USB port. They're fast, require no drivers, and are easy to carry around. Another plus (for me anyway) is that they are Mac/PC compatible.Yeah! That's the one I'm thinking of. My professor showed them to us last semester and I've been wanting one since. Never knew anyone who's had it, though, so I've been holding off. Awesome!
BishopMVP
08-25-2003, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by thealmighty
What about the cable porn listings?

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I don't really need them printed in color anyway.

Originally posted by Daedelus
Sorry for the brief threadjack....

I'm just proud I finally have a topic worthy of being thread-jacked. I'm also interested in this though too.
Draft Dodger
08-25-2003, 11:57 PM
"Why? I'm not trying to start a fight, just asking because 1) I still run 95SE on my POS Celeron 466 so I've never tinker with XP and 2) instinctively, I'd always think, "yeah, go with PRO over HOME" although I couldn't say why on XP."

really, there's not a ton of reasons that the average user would need Pro over Home - it's the kind of thing that the "buzz" is that Home sucks and Pro doesn't, which is simply wrong.

the biggest features missing in Home - File/Folder Encryption, and Remote Desktop.
Craptacular
08-26-2003, 12:56 AM
I'll echo a few things:

Don't bother with the fastest processor; you should always buy at least 2 speed levels down from the current high-end; it ain't worth the money.

Find out how much you can buy MS Office for through school. I know the U of Wis just ended their agreement with Microsoft, but it was a fantastic deal ($30 for Office Pro with FrontPage and other stuff).

Go LARGE on the memory if you can afford it.
mckerney
08-26-2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by daedalus
Yeah! That's the one I'm thinking of. My professor showed them to us last semester and I've been wanting one since. Never knew anyone who's had it, though, so I've been holding off. Awesome!

I'm going into my first year in college and I just bought one. A bit pricey for 128 megs (set me back a little more than $60), but I think it'll be worth it. Don't really need one though as I'll be picking up a printer in the next couple days, but I thought it'd be good to have.
mckerney
08-26-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by sterlingice
tho, the $250 ones mckerney showed might be a tad much- paying 20% of your system cost in speakers is high unless you really like music/sound

They are excessive, but they're really fucking sweet. And being a college freshman with enough disposable income to buy them, I can say I will do that at some point within the next year. But they're not just for computer use, it's a great surround sound system to use for movies/console games as well.
MizzouRah
08-26-2003, 07:21 AM
XP home would save you a tad bit of cash and you're not networking a bunch of pc's together, so why XP Pro?

I would go with the Home version.


Todd