Jets-Washington

[GrantDawg]

Jets have a total of 158 yards. Eeks! And they still had a shot to win at the end! Interesting game, but I can't say either team will be very good this year.

[TLK]

Who was calling plays for the Jets and where do I apply for the job?

[Philliesfan980]

Another great example of general Poor Management in the NFL. They should never have had only 1 time out in that type of game. Vinny looks lost. He can't even hand the ball off properly (bad flow). Jets o-line sucks. And their Defense.. . If they can't stop Lydell Betts for gods sake, just wait till later in the year.

It sure must suck to be a Jets fan.

[thesloppy]

Originally posted by TheLionKing
Who was calling plays for the Jets and where do I apply for the job?

The Jets playcalling totally BLEW, did someone let Sly Croom in to handle the Jets playbook?

The receivers were always shy of the first down marker, and in the second half the Jets were telegraphing their run plays at every opportunity. Not only was it completely obvious when they were going to run, but their personnel would tell you exactly where it was going.

[TroyF]

This is something we debated in another thread over and over. Samdari is correct: The Redskins have poor DT's.

Problem is, if you don't have a top 5 offensive line in the NFL AND you cannot establish even the threat of a mid range pass, you have ZERO chance to move the football. Stack the line and run blitz. The Jets biggest carry all night was a 12 yard Martin sweep to the outside. They didn't generate anything up the middle. You can talk about the play calling, but it really didn't matter what plays were called.

The Jets WR were not good enough to beat the Redskin CB's. The Jets don't have a good enough O-Line and Curtis isn't quick enough to overcome an 8 man "box".

Washington, without a couple of REALLY dumb plays, wins this game by 3 TD's. As it was, so long as they never made the BIG mistake (any type of return for a TD, another fumble or INT at their own 30) they were going to win this game.

TroyF

[Bee]

Originally posted by thesloppy
The Jets playcalling totally BLEW, did someone let Sly Croom in to handle the Jets playbook?

The receivers were always shy of the first down marker, and in the second half the Jets were telegraphing their run plays at every opportunity. Not only was it completely obvious when they were going to run, but their personnel would tell you exactly where it was going.

Completely agree. Testaverde was rusty which didn't help, but the playcalling was horrid and they might as well have just told the Skins what play they were running as they came up to the line. :rolleyes:

[Subby]

Yeah - ok - I agree with all of that. But Lavar Arrington single-handedly destroyed Curtis Martin's will to live :)

[scooper]

Originally posted by thesloppy


The receivers were always shy of the first down marker

No kidding. That frustrates me to watch, and I really didn't care who won. Eventually, I decided, if the Jets receivers were that stupid as to not run to at least the marker, they don't deserve it and I lost any desire to see them win.

[Joe Stallings]

Washington's line is just horrible. Ramsey was hurried all night. No one on the line (save for Randy Thomas, who was solid) played well. Jansen and Samuels both got used. I can't help but wonder how good Patrick Ramsey would be behind a good line. Hate to see a young guy (and Carr, whew) getting abused so often and early in his career.

The d-line might actually be worse. Man, the 'Skins have a curse at DT, think about it:

Bobby Wilson
Sean Gilbert
Dana Stubblefield
Big Daddy

As much as I would love to see the 'Skins vie for a playoff spot this year, it ain't happening when your lines on both sides are so weak.

[Bee]

Originally posted by scooper
No kidding. That frustrates me to watch, and I really didn't care who won. Eventually, I decided, if the Jets receivers were that stupid as to not run to at least the marker, they don't deserve it and I lost any desire to see them win.

Well, not to defend the receiver too much because I thought they screwed up quite a few times, but some of those plays looked like Vinny threw it behind them and they had to stop and step back to catch the balls (and were then tackled immediately).

I'm not a Jets fan, but if I were I wouldn't be too upset overall about the way they played. If Vinny gets a little more comfortable and the playcalling improves, I think the Jets should do pretty well this year and contend for a possible wild card.

[Samdari]

Well, the one thing that stood out for me last night was the speed. Chief Rum nailed the Jets linebackers being slow. I had no idea it was that bad. Mo Lewis blew so many plays last night it was shocking, and Cowart unable to catch Ramsey from behind on his 25 yard game-winning scramble was embarassing, Ramsey was supposedly a statue.

The Redskin DTs were not great, but the LBs made up for it. I swear there were 17 guys running around wearing #56 last night.

A few more observations from the game:

They showed Britney on the jumbotron. I had never paid much attention, but her music really sucks. Did anyone else notice her try to say something after her number, but then discovering her microphone was off? I wonder if she even sings on the albums.

Ladell Betts looked very good. Getting Canidate was really a dumb move for the Skins, especially since Kenny Watson (who Danny forced Spurrier to cut, so his pet project would get some time). Canidate may contribute, and be a decent back, but the Skins just didn't need him.

Ramsey is going to be good too. He was really on a roll until the INT, after which he was a bit tentative. But, he showed quite a bit of poise.

Last night is going to be very typical of the Jets season. They will play it close to the vest, try to shorten the game, have few turnovers and penalties and try to be there at the end. They do not have the people to make the plays at that time though, so they will lose like that a lot.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Joe Stallings
Washington's line is just horrible. Ramsey was hurried all night. No one on the line (save for Randy Thomas, who was solid) played well. Jansen and Samuels both got used. I can't help but wonder how good Patrick Ramsey would be behind a good line. Hate to see a young guy (and Carr, whew) getting abused so often and early in his career.

The d-line might actually be worse. Man, the 'Skins have a curse at DT, think about it:

Bobby Wilson
Sean Gilbert
Dana Stubblefield
Big Daddy

As much as I would love to see the 'Skins vie for a playoff spot this year, it ain't happening when your lines on both sides are so weak.

Did you see the play where Ramsey audibled at the line and Dave Fiori was pass blocking on a running play. :D

I think the o-line will probably improve as the season goes on, but I don't see any help for the DTs. The O-line has a lot of talent, but the same can't be said for the DTs.

[revrew]

Regarding the Jets problems with getting past the first-down marker...

Wayne Chrebet is what, 5'10? And Moss is what, 5'9? Can either of them outmuscle Fred Smoot and Champ Bailey beyond the marker? No. Both Chrebet and Moss are #3 receivers, great at slants and crossing routes, the occasional fly, and the buttonhook. Once they got past the firstdown marker, they got manhandled. The only way to save Vinny from a sure sack was to come back. And everybody in Chicago (and San Diego, I imagine) knows that Curtis Conway can't get open when it really counts. He's a prototype #2 receiver, anyways. I think the Jets letting L.Coles go will even cripple Chad Pennington after he comes back. They don't have a #1 receiver. And therefore, they won't get many first downs.


As a sidenote, I was thrilled to see Iowa Hawkeye Ladell Betts do so well. Methinks Trung Candidate will be on the bench. Heads up, fantasy owners.

[Subby]

Originally posted by Joe Stallings
As much as I would love to see the 'Skins vie for a playoff spot this year, it ain't happening when your lines on both sides are so weak. The defensive line did a pretty solid job stopping the run, so the news isn't all bad. They have enough average guys that hopefully a smart rotation will create opportunities.

The offensive line just needs more reps together. On one play Fiore went into pass protection even though Ramsey checked to the run at the line of scrimmage. I think there is enough talent there that after a few games they will be an asset.

Betts and Candidate both looked good to me last night - Betts just got some huge holes blown open for him while Candidate didn't get as many good looks.

And when was the last time you felt that a field goal by a Skins kicker was a mortal lock? Not since Moseley, baby!!!

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Ronnie Dobbs2
I also liked what I saw out of Trotter, hopefully that will stick around.

I think Trotter is a potential weakness on this defense... he is a too inclined to overpursue, and I think that opens things up a bit too much in his coverage zone underneath. A well-designed game plan will eat them up with underneath passing to the TE and slot unless Trotter can stand off better than he did last night.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Subby
Betts and Candidate both looked good to me last night - Betts just got some huge holes blown open for him while Candidate didn't get as many good looks.

And when was the last time you felt that a field goal by a Skins kicker was a mortal lock? Not since Moseley, baby!!!

Well the Betts/Canidate thing looked the opposite to me. Canidate just took what the OL gave him, and Betts made more yards on his own. Both were productive though, so I think a ratio similar to last night's will continue.

I noticed another thing last night, about your last point. Where did Redskin fans get this idea that John Hall was a great kicker. For the most part, Jet fans have been clamoring to get rid of him. He has finished almost exactly in the middle of the pack in FG% each of the last three years. He is, by definition, an average NFL kicker. I realize that compared to recent years for the skins that average is a tremendous upgrade, but let's not make him out to be more than he is.

[Subby]

Originally posted by Samdari
I noticed another thing last night, about your last point. Where did Redskin fans get this idea that John Hall was a great kicker. For the most part, Jet fans have been clamoring to get rid of him. He has finished almost exactly in the middle of the pack in FG% each of the last three years. He is, by definition, an average NFL kicker. I realize that compared to recent years for the skins that average is a tremendous upgrade, but let's not make him out to be more than he is. Well, not to make excuses for the guy, but I have always been under the impression that the Meadowlands is a horrible place to kick. Maybe he will be markedly improved in a new situation. And when you say compared to recent years, realize you are talking a good decade of kicking futility...

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Subby
Well, not to make excuses for the guy, but I have always been under the impression that the Meadowlands is a horrible place to kick. Maybe he will be markedly improved in a new situation. And when you say compared to recent years, realize you are talking a good decade of kicking futility...

I am a Jet fan. I still have not seen a single Jet fan that wasn't happy the day they heard Hall was headed elsewhere.

[Subby]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
I am a Jet fan. I still have not seen a single Jet fan that wasn't happy the day they heard Hall was headed elsewhere. That's probably the case. The fact remains the guy hasn't missed a kick yet - including both a 50-yarder and a game winner.

I am enjoying the honeymoon :)

[andy m]

i always liked chip lohmiller, but only because he had a silly name.

[Joe Stallings]

::And when was the last time you felt that a field goal by a Skins kicker was a mortal lock? Not since Moseley, baby!!!

Well...I had to do 'couch leaners' on 2 of Hall's 3 field goals (you know where you grab the arm of the couch, sort of raise your shoulder, tilt your head and squint...). Not sure I would go with the phrase 'mortal lock there just yet... ;)

[Joe Stallings]

Chip Blow-miller

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Joe Stallings
::And when was the last time you felt that a field goal by a Skins kicker was a mortal lock? Not since Moseley, baby!!!

Well...I had to do 'couch leaners' on 2 of Hall's 3 field goals (you know where you grab the arm of the couch, sort of raise your shoulder, tilt your head and squint...). Not sure I would go with the phrase 'mortal lock there just yet... ;)

Are you a Redskin fan Joe [deletes .400 webpage from bookmarks]?

Youse guys gonna be doin a lotta leanin' dis ye-ah.

John Hall is indeed the best 'Persons' kicker since the early Lohmiller days (he looked awesome his first few years) but their fans will soon learn that a 33 yarder (which was heading left and would have missed from 40+) is far from a mortal lock with this guy.

[TroyF]

Well, the numbers back up the assertion that Hall struggled at the Meadowlands.

The past two years combined, he's 19/27 (70%) at the Meadowlands, 29/35 (83%) everywhere else.

IF (and this is a very big IF) Hall's numbers hold up and he continues to kick at the 83% clip away from the Meadowlands, he's a top 10 kicker. If those numbers do not hold up, you are correct. . . they have a middle of the road kicker who isn't bad at clutch kicks.

TroyF

[thesloppy]

Originally posted by Samdari
Well the Betts/Canidate thing looked the opposite to me. Canidate just took what the OL gave him, and Betts made more yards on his own. Both were productive though, so I think a ratio similar to last night's will continue.

I agree with your assessment Samdari, Canidate seemed more than content to sit behind the line for one second too long, waiting for the lanes to open, which doesn't seem like it will get him too far behind Washington's OL. Betts on the other hand just put his head down when he got the bell, and seemed to at least move the chains forward with every carry. Trung also appeared to have a nasty habit of putting the moves on invisible defenders, juking once too often before he even came close to contact.

[Samdari]

Yeah, its funny how quick they bunch up, though. The 83% you mention would put Hall in the top 10 (tied with two others for 7th) based on last years stats. The 77% he actually had for the year put him 19th in the league. Based on the 31 attempts he had last season, the difference is two kicks.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
Yeah, its funny how quick they bunch up, though. The 83% you mention would put Hall in the top 10 (tied with two others for 7th) based on last years stats. The 77% he actually had for the year put him 19th in the league. Based on the 31 attempts he had last season, the difference is two kicks.

Yup, that's why I took two years worth of stats. The past two seasons, he's clearly been a better kicker away from home. There is a lot of reasons why that could be. One of them could be that he just doesn't kick all that well when he's at home with the wife and kids. Another could be that the Meadowlands is a difficult place to kick. :)

If it is that last option, the Redskins made a pretty good signing. Hmmm. . . Let me check on something.

TroyF

[Fritz]

*troy looks once again for his missing genitalia*

[Fritz]

I saw one play that was exciting last night. One.

[cuervo72]

Ramsey's scramble.

[Passacaglia]

Personally, I didn't have to count the exciting plays or anything, since I taped the game and watched it this morning. BTW, I highly recommend this. As it was, I watched the game in well under two hours with all the fast forwarding, plus it left my evening free. Of course, I guess not everyone has two hours available in the morning...ah, college life.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by cuervo72
Ramsey's scramble.

nah, the duck play. I like those

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Fritz
nah, the duck play. I like those

I agree... I just about had an orgasm when I saw him complete that pass.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Fritz
I saw one play that was exciting last night. One.

I'd tend to agree. The Duck pass was one of those that made you jump out of your chair, no matter who you were cheering for. (I wasn't really cheering for anyone come to think of it)

I do like watching Arrington get his paws on people. He gets a finger on you, you fall down. Abraham had a couple of good rushes. I also liked the hard running from Betts.

Overall, the game was a 1.5/5 on the excitement meter. Being that it was the first game of the NFL season made it worth watching.

TroyF

[Craptacular]

As someone who was in the same graduating class as John Hall at UW and went to every home game, I wouldn't call any FG attempt a "lock" even if he was kicking from on top of the crossbar. The Badgers brought in other kickers to kick XPs and short FGs, while Hall handled long FGs and kickoffs. He probably kicked more kickoffs through the uprights than FGs. He got a chance in the NFL because he had an incredible leg, but I'll give him credit for lasting longer in the NFL than any of us thought he would. The coaches messed with his technique to improve his accuracy, at the expense of some distance.

On a side note, Hall was the one football player I congratulated after storming the field after the '93 Michigan game ... I hit him on the shoulder pads and said something to him. Unfortunately, that was "The Crush" game, and a bunch of students were almost dead as the rest of us were celebrating all over the field.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Fritz
nah, the duck play. I like those

Canidate absolutely blew that block, didn't he?