Rams deserve to lose this game

[EagleFan]

4th and 12, down by 10, in field goal range and enough time left on the clock to get the ball back with plenty of time and they go for it. Even worse is that the Giants call a timeout and he has time to think about his decision and he still goes for it.

Of course, they did get screwed on what should have been the Barber fumble. What are those refs watching to call that incomplete. He takes three steps and makes a move upfield with the ball yet they call it incomplete.

[Philliesfan980]

Once Again, Mike Martz is an arrogant asshole. I can't wait to see them fail this year. They can't even come close to an average Giants team who has given them every opportunity to win this game

[Chief Rum]

You thought that play was stupid? How about repeating the same damn error a few minutes later? Good Lord, is Martz trying to get fired or something?

CR

[EagleFan]

Twice? He makes the same move twice.

[sabotai]

"Of course, they did get screwed on what should have been the Barber fumble. What are those refs watching to call that incomplete. He takes three steps and makes a move upfield with the ball yet they call it incomplete."

He made two steps and was stripped as he was turning up field. According to the rule, it's incomplete. I don't know where you saw a thrid step...

Even if it was a fumble, call it pay back for the first Barber fumble that wasn't a fumble.

[sabotai]

dola,

if the third step occured during his move up field, it's part of the move, and since he was stripped during the move, it counts as an incomplete pass.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
Once Again, Mike Martz is an arrogant asshole.

This is probably the most accurate description of the guy I've seen...

FM

[sabotai]

double dola,

To be honest, I can SEE going for it the first time. His receivers were gaining 15-20 yards on their catches. The secondary fo the Giants looked like it might be breaking down. They still had timeouts left. SO I can see it. I don't agree. I woudl have kicked the FG. But I can see his rational.

The second time was just a total bonehead play. 2 1/2 minutes, NO time outs. Kick the FG and for the onside kick. That one was definatly a retard call by Martz.

[FrogMan]

scrapped your double dola attempt there, sabotai :)

FM

[Philliesfan980]

For all you coaches out there.

If I'm Martz, they have no timeouts and down by 10. There's about 4:30 or so left. As soon as I get to the 25 or so, I kick a fieldgoal. Then you have the most time to get the ball back, and can probably even allow a first down, whereas if you dick around at the 25 and don't score a td, you just ran a minute or two off the clock. Idea's?

[sabotai]

Originally posted by FrogMan
scrapped your double dola attempt there, sabotai :)

FM

....you made a powerful enemy today. :)

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
For all you coaches out there.

If I'm Martz, they have no timeouts and down by 10. There's about 4:30 or so left. As soon as I get to the 25 or so, I kick a fieldgoal. Then you have the most time to get the ball back, and can probably even allow a first down, whereas if you dick around at the 25 and don't score a td, you just ran a minute or two off the clock. Idea's?

But if you're Martx, then you think you can achieve anything with two long throws and then you try, and try, and try...

FM

[sabotai]

Philliesfan, in a 2 score game, I can see the rational there. It's definatly a way to go. But I'm not sure what that would do to your offense's morale. And for that matter, the morale of you opponent's defense.

[EagleFan]

Originally posted by sabotai
dola,

if the third step occured during his move up field, it's part of the move, and since he was stripped during the move, it counts as an incomplete pass.

Control and 2 steps makes it complete. What is this move up field rule that you speak of? So according to that you could catch it and run all the way across the field and srop it as you turn up field and it be incomplete?

[Philliesfan980]

Sabotai;

Ah, when your down by 10 with no timeouts, who cares about morale. I never really see this "situation" called the way I described above, but I'm curious as to why nobody tries it. I think your putting too much pressure on your defense when you say "OK ... They can't get a first down under any circumstances."

[sabotai]

I beleive it was a new addition to rule last season. I remember the commentators last year constantly mentioning it whenever it happened. The rule now for a completion is 2 steps + a "football move".

"So according to that you could catch it and run all the way across the field and srop it as you turn up field and it be incomplete?"

:rolleyes: Of course not...

[sabotai]

"I never really see this "situation" called the way I described above, but I'm curious as to why nobody tries it. "

I remember last season the Eagles lost a game late in the 4th quarter and Reid took some criticism for not doing what you described. They needed a FG and TD to win (or tie) and with about 2 minutes left, he was deep in the opponent's territory. He tried going for the TD and in the process, basically ran the clock out. So there are situations where they should do what you describe.

Not oftan though, because when you are deep in their territory, you want to get that TD because even if you do get the onside kick back, you're still at midfield and when there's only a minute or two left with no timeouts, that's a LONG way to go to get a TD (but not that far to get into FG position)

[Philliesfan980]

I understand what you're saying Sabotai

Personally, I'd rather lose the game by 7, driving for a touchdown, than 3 , by not getting an onside kick, or giving up 1 first down to run out the clock.

[Craptacular]

Never ever EVER leave it up to the kicker unless absolutely necessary. I would never kick a FG early in that situation.

edit: This is in regards to kicking right away when you're in range, and not going for a TD. 4th and 12 is a different situation.

[QuikSand]

I think arrogance is the best description for all this - it's not that he's an idiot, it's that he's so damned stubborn in his beliefs that he's right.

[Philliesfan980]

Craptacular;

I disagree. Assuming that you have an above average kicker, I think in that situation you should go for a fieldgoal as soon as your comfortable (maybe even wait till you get to the 20).

I agree that kickers can't, and shouldn't be relied on, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I feel that this is the best way to win the game.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I think arrogance is the best description for all this - it's not that he's an idiot, it's that he's so damned stubborn in his beliefs that he's right.

Just how I see him too, an arrogant a**hole. It's not that he's an idiot, he's intelligent, but way too stubborn...

FM

[sabotai]

It's as if Martz still thinks his offense is still the offense that put up 30+ points a game. He refuses to beleive that defenses have found ways to stop his offense.

[vtbub]

The Rams are/were overrated.

Which sucks this year because I have TroyF's poster boy in the RWBL league. Nice job Kurt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just heard (during Falcons halftime) that Kurt Warner will spend the night in the hospital for observation due to concerns about a concussion that may have been suffered in the first half.

Speculation by the talking heads was that the concussion might account for what I gather was less than stellar play on his part.

[Noble_Platypus]

Someone should ask Mike Martz which quarter he suffered his concussion that caused him to make such stupid coaching decisions.

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by vtbub
The Rams are/were overrated.


Easy to say after the game is over. This overrated bs is last years news. They had a bad game, big deal. Would you have said this before the game started? I doubt it.

Martz should have played Bulger sometime in the 3rd quarter. I'm a Warner fan, but he wasn't right today. Play for the win, not because you named him your starter.


Todd

[G-Man]

Originally posted by EagleFan
4th and 12, down by 10, in field goal range and enough time left on the clock to get the ball back with plenty of time and they go for it. Even worse is that the Giants call a timeout and he has time to think about his decision and he still goes for it.

Of course, they did get screwed on what should have been the Barber fumble. What are those refs watching to call that incomplete. He takes three steps and makes a move upfield with the ball yet they call it incomplete.

Getting worried are we;) Giants D does look great huh!

[Philliesfan980]

The Giants D didn't look that great. I think the Rams started out the game slow, but came on late. I would say that they are above avg though.

[EagleFan]

Didn't see much to worry about yet. The Giants had a good defensive line last year when the Eagles ran for almost 300 yards on them.