The Marmel NFL Show

[Marmel]

Welcome to week 2 of the Post-Game starring Marmel. This is the show where we celebrate things that made ME happy on NFL Sunday. Let's get right into it, shall we?

Well, the 49ers/Rams game was a no win situation for me, since either team losing is going to make me happy, but one of them has too win. I was able to pull out a few gems here.

First of all, it was such a pleasure to see that slouch Kurt Warner on the bench and his backup, Bulger (who I really don't mind at all) lead his team to a victory. That should secure Kurt's position on the bench, where he belong and where I am all too happy to see him.

Of course watching the 49ers lose like they did was great. I laughed my ass off when that dumb receiver ran the clock out on them. :)


The Jets are 0-2. Didn't Herm promise his team would not get off to a slow start this year? Hahahahahaha




Green Bay and Brett Favre came back with a solid victory this week. I have always been a pretty big Favre fan, so I am pretty happy with the outcome here.




Kansas City won big. The only thing I liked about the Rams a few years back was Vermeil. I didn't know if he could do it with the Cheifs, but he has, and they are looking like a true contender. Good for them. Good forr Trent Gren as well.




Arizona gets shut out. Good choice Emmitt. I hate you, and I am happy your new team sucks this bad.




I don't necessarily dislike the Bengals, but it is quite enjoyable to watch them come up with new ways, week after week, to lose a game. Beautiful man, don't ever stop!



Can we let the Steve McNair talk die down for a little while now? Last week you would have thought he was the second coming of Johnny U.



Washington and Atlanta was another no win situation for me, but did you see Ramsey just get hammered on two consecutive series by a blind side hit? I smiled. :)




I saved the best for last. Tampa Bay was beaten by the Panthers. How could this not make any football fan happy? TB has gotten so cocky, it is nice to see them knocked down a notch. Christ, you think they have been the only team to ever win a Superbowl the way they go on. Take a seat, assholes.




A quick Monday night Preview:

Giants will roll all over the Cowboys, who I should mention are coached by that Homo, Bill Parcells.

[KevinNU7]

Nothing about the Pats this week? ;)

[Marmel]

How did I miss that one!

The Eagles open their new stadium 0-2, and sit in last place in the division, a full 2 games behind the Giants!

I hate the Patriots, even though they won. At least they beat a team that I dislike even more than the Patriots.

Still, it is hard to watch McNabb struggle. I really do think he is great.

Ahh, but the Eagles lost, so all is good!

[VPI97]

Didn't you like how McNabb looked lost on the field? ...or how 80% of his passes missed their target by at least 5 yards?



Oh wait, that's right... :)


Edit - Beaten again!

[TroyF]

Welcome to week 2 of the Post-Game starring Marmel. This is the show where we celebrate things that made ME happy on NFL Sunday. Let's get right into it, shall we?

Well, the 49ers/Rams game was a no win situation for me, since either team losing is going to make me happy, but one of them has too win. I was able to pull out a few gems here.

First of all, it was such a pleasure to see that slouch Kurt Warner on the bench and his backup, Bulger (who I really don't mind at all) lead his team to a victory. That should secure Kurt's position on the bench, where he belong and where I am all too happy to see him.

Bulger was good, not great. If he doesn't start pushing the ball down the field more, you'll see Kurt back in there soon enough. Bulger deserves to be the starter now though, no doubt about it. I need to send you some old Warner tape I have so you can see he isn't as bad as you seem to think he is.

Of course watching the 49ers lose like they did was great. I laughed my ass off when that dumb receiver ran the clock out on them. :)

Dumbest play in the NFL this week.


The Jets are 0-2. Didn't Herm promise his team would not get off to a slow start this year? Hahahahahaha

In his defense, I doubt he figured he'd be without his starting QB for the first half of the season either.

Green Bay and Brett Favre came back with a solid victory this week. I have always been a pretty big Favre fan, so I am pretty happy with the outcome here.

Good win for the Pack and Farve. They needed it badly.

Kansas City won big. The only thing I liked about the Rams a few years back was Vermeil. I didn't know if he could do it with the Cheifs, but he has, and they are looking like a true contender. Good for them. Good forr Trent Gren as well.

They do look good early on. They will be an interesting team to watch this year. I still don't like that defense.

Arizona gets shut out. Good choice Emmitt. I hate you, and I am happy your new team sucks this bad.

I've never liked Emmitt, but I respect the guy a ton. I really feel sorry for Dave McGinnis, he doesn't deserve this.

I don't necessarily dislike the Bengals, but it is quite enjoyable to watch them come up with new ways, week after week, to lose a game. Beautiful man, don't ever stop!

Enjoy it while you can. Lewis will have that team over .500 within three years. They'll be contending in four, maybe sooner.

Can we let the Steve McNair talk die down for a little while now? Last week you would have thought he was the second coming of Johnny U.

He's the best QB in football right now. Period.

Washington and Atlanta was another no win situation for me, but did you see Ramsey just get hammered on two consecutive series by a blind side hit? I smiled. :)

Sadly for my picks, I also watched him get up and throw for over three bills.

I saved the best for last. Tampa Bay was beaten by the Panthers. How could this not make any football fan happy? TB has gotten so cocky, it is nice to see them knocked down a notch. Christ, you think they have been the only team to ever win a Superbowl the way they go on. Take a seat, assholes.

Couldn't agree more. Some of the Bucs were hinting at perfection after last week. Give me a break. They are a good team. They are not invincible. There is a blueprint for beating them, if you have the stomach to follow it. Only the Saints and Panthers seem to want to do it though.[/b]

A quick Monday night Preview:

Giants will roll all over the Cowboys, who I should mention are coached by that Homo, Bill Parcells.

I think the game will be a little closer than you might think. Just a hunch.

TroyF

[scooper]

Originally posted by Marmel


I don't necessarily dislike the Bengals, but it is quite enjoyable to watch them come up with new ways, week after week, to lose a game. Beautiful man, don't ever stop!



I'm going to whine a little bit here. The refs gave the Raiders a touchdown in the first quarter by blowing a play dead when the player clearly fumbled before he was down. Even the anti-bengal Jerry Glanville reiterated over and over how much that blown call hurt the Bengals. That TD would have been the difference.

By the way, I'm not surprised by the Panthers. That D is very strong.

[Draft Dodger]

tough to see McNabb look so bad these first 2 games. I hate the Eagles, but I love McNabb. He doesn't look right at all.

8 backs over a hundred yards (1 back almost hit 300).

[Fritz]

This is quickly turning into my favorite NFL show.

That Marmel is a real mensch.

[Marmel]

I have watched Warner since his first start. I lived in St. Louis and was swamped by coverage of thhim and the team. I NEVER that he was that great. He got on a roll, the offense was unique at the time, and mmost importantly his receivers were the best in the league, always getting open. Things just worked in that offense for a season. When the team is not clicking on all cilanders, and they are not playing the league's worst schedule, Kurt looks average at best, and that is being generous.

I am a John Fox fan, and love what he has done to the Carolina defense. I think the offense will come around in time, but with a great defense, you can hang around in every game you play in the NFL.


Can we let the Steve McNair talk die down for a little while now? Last week you would have thought he was the second coming of Johnny U.

He's teh best QB in football right now. Period.

This must be a joke Troy. It has to be. The best? I never said he was a bad QB, but he is not the best. No way in hell. Impossible. Nope.

[Fritz]

dola,

who the fuck blocks 3 kicks in a game?

[Marmel]

Oh, here are a couple more tidbits that brought a smile to my face on Sunday:


TO and Gargia arguing on the sidelines. Some things never change. Loved it!!!!


Key-Shawn dropping a game tying touchdown catch late in the game. Sure, they got it anyway, but I laughed my ass off when Key-Shawn dropped that one.


Ramsey yelling at his coaches after the 2nd blind side hit he took from a guy who came in untouched.

Good for Holmgren. I have a soft spot in my heart for that guy for some unknown reason. Glad to see his team off to a 2-0 start.

[Draft Dodger]

"He [McNair]'s the best QB in football right now. Period. "

I'd love to have McNair on my team...but I think there's a guy up in Buffalo who is playing some excellent football right now.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Fritz
who the fuck blocks 3 kicks in a game?

Virginia Tech, it seems. But point well taken - that was weird.

[Marmel]

When a team blocks three, you have to wonder if it is a problem in the offense's blocking schemes. Or a lot of luck. Or maybe they are just that good? I don't know how that happens.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Fritz
dola,

who the fuck blocks 3 kicks in a game?

A goalie.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
"He [McNair]'s the best QB in football right now. Period. "

I'd love to have McNair on my team...but I think there's a guy up in Buffalo who is playing some excellent football right now.

You would also have to hold a gun to my head to get me to take McNair over Favre.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Marmel
When a team blocks three, you have to wonder if it is a problem in the offense's blocking schemes. Or a lot of luck. Or maybe they are just that good? I don't know how that happens.

The last extra point was clearly blocking. You knew the second the center snapped it, disaster was about to happen. center/guard tandem was split instantly. The kick never had a chance.

As for Warner, his WR weren't always getting open. He made some incredible throws during his run.

As for McNair, I'm not kidding. Yeah, there are other QB's who I could see people voting for. Bledsoe is a great QB. Gannon always needs to come up in that discussion. I can't see many QB's you'd rate higher though. Let's go down the list:

Pennington
Fiedler
Bledsoe
Brady

Maddux
Boller
Kitna
Holcomb

Manning
Carr
Brunell

Plummer
Gannon
Brees
Green

McNabb
Collins
Ramsey
Carter

Culpepper
Harrington
Farve
Stewart

Hasselback
Garcia
Bulger
Blake

Delhomme
Vick
B. Johnson
Brooks
---------------------------------------------------------

As of right now, who do you take over McNair? You might be able to convince me of Gannon or Bledsoe if you really pinned me down. At the start of the year, you might have got me thinking about McNabb. Not right now.

McNair is by far the best pocket passer of the running QB's. He can sit in the pocket and pick you apart. He can go downfield. He's a tough, gritty leader. He can run when things break down. He wins.

If Tyrone Calico becomes a deep threat (something he's never truly had), McNair will throw for 3800 yards next year. As of now, he only has one WR he can really trust. (Mason) Yet he still puts up great numbers and leads his teams to wins.

The one drawback is him being injury prone.

If I had my choice of any NFL QB right now, he'd be the guy I'd take.

TroyF

[Radii]

Originally posted by Marmel
When a team blocks three, you have to wonder if it is a problem in the offense's blocking schemes. Or a lot of luck. Or maybe they are just that good? I don't know how that happens.

Considering Carolina also got a punt and a FG in the win over Jacksonville, I think there is something good really good happening with the Panthers special teams.

Did you see Shawn Salisbury(i probably butchered that spelling) go over the 3 blocks last night? The first one the Panthers D-line collectively pushed the Bucs O-line back about 4 yards before the ball was kicked. The second one Gramatica kicked *way* too low, it barely cleared the Offensive linemen's helmets. The third one was just a jailbreak, and was quite the thing of beauty for a Panthers fan :)

[TroyF]

Originally posted by The_herd
You would also have to hold a gun to my head to get me to take McNair over Favre.

I love Brett, but he isn't the same guy right now. He's thrown multiple INT's in 5 of his last 10 starts. (19 INT's and only one INT free game in those starts)

He's also not going down the field anymore. In those 10 starts I mention, he hasn't had a single game of over 7 yards per pass attempt. (Here are the numbers, game by game: 6.88, 5.16, 5.26, 6.69, 6.09, 3.45, 5.21, 5.88, 6.05, 4.71)

If you give me the OLD Brett Farve? The one that threw the ball down the field? (7.69 yards per pass attempt in '01) I'd take him in a <3beat.

I hope that version of Farve isn't dead. I don't see any indication of life though. :(

TroyF

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Radii
Considering Carolina also got a punt and a FG in the win over Jacksonville, I think there is something good really good happening with the Panthers special teams.

Did you see Shawn Salisbury(i probably butchered that spelling) go over the 3 blocks last night? The first one the Panthers D-line collectively pushed the Bucs O-line back about 4 yards before the ball was kicked. The second one Gramatica kicked *way* too low, it barely cleared the Offensive linemen's helmets. The third one was just a jailbreak, and was quite the thing of beauty for a Panthers fan :)

The 1st and 3rd blocks were true jailbreaks. The center just got bowled over and everybody joined the party. Carolina has shut a lot of my co-workers up. All offseason and pre-season I said I thought they would be fighting for a wild card spot in the last week, and people were laughing at me. If you actually follow football, how can you not like what they have going on down there? The QB situation is really the only question mark, but their style of football can get them pretty far with a "Dilfer" model of quarterback.

Is the NFC South now clearly the best division in football?

[Travis]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
The 1st and 3rd blocks were true jailbreaks. The center just got bowled over and everybody joined the party. Carolina has shut a lot of my co-workers up. All offseason and pre-season I said I thought they would be fighting for a wild card spot in the last week, and people were laughing at me. If you actually follow football, how can you not like what they have going on down there? The QB situation is really the only question mark, but their style of football can get them pretty far with a "Dilfer" model of quarterback.

Is the NFC South now clearly the best division in football?

I hate to say it, but is Jake even at the Dilfer level? I haven't seen him play much, but Trent's impressed me in his time with Seattle, a much better QB than they were letting him be in Baltimore. I think Carolina will be fighting and clawing all the way down the stretch, it'll be interesting to see where their offense goes, especially if they can get some confidence in the next couple of weeks.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Travis
I hate to say it, but is Jake even at the Dilfer level? I haven't seen him play much, but Trent's impressed me in his time with Seattle, a much better QB than they were letting him be in Baltimore. I think Carolina will be fighting and clawing all the way down the stretch, it'll be interesting to see where their offense goes, especially if they can get some confidence in the next couple of weeks.

His stats stunk, but he was big in key situations yesterday. They converted a couple big 3rd down plays to keep the clock moving late in the game. I think right now he's just a tad worse than the Baltimore edition of Dilfer. John Fox has admitted he wants to make his decision makaing as risk-free as possible. He'd rather the offense play defensively than take many risks.

[Radii]

Originally posted by Travis
I hate to say it, but is Jake even at the Dilfer level? I haven't seen him play much, but Trent's impressed me in his time with Seattle, a much better QB than they were letting him be in Baltimore. I think Carolina will be fighting and clawing all the way down the stretch, it'll be interesting to see where their offense goes, especially if they can get some confidence in the next couple of weeks. '

Jake isn't at a Dilfer level yet. He needs to learn when to scramble, and he needs to learn when to throw the ball away. He has thrown 4 interceptions in the first two games, and from what I understanding(not seeing the Tampa game, only listening to it) three of those were just truly horrible decisions. I know both of them against Jacksonville were terrible. One of the JAX Int's, Jake threw it into double coverage, when he had a good 10 yards of open field in front of him.

I don't think we know enough about Jake yet to have any clue. We know he doesn't have to do much. The Panthers have a great front 4 on defense, and it appears like they finally have a running game. Special Teams won't be as amazing as its been the first two weeks, but if Steve Smith and He Hate Me can continue to get the Panthers consistantly good field position on returns, then Jake won't even have to be as solid as Dilfer for this team to make the playoffs.

So far though, all we've seen is that he turned a game around against a not so great Jacksonville team(a great comeback for sure but not against a great team), and that he struggled against an amazing Tampa defense. I think the Panthers *must* beat Atlanta in week 4 when they play without Vick, and if they can do that, I'll start thinking about the playoffs.

[Alan T]

Originally posted by TroyF


The one drawback is him being injury prone.



I think this is the biggest concern of most "running" QBs...

As for someone better than mcnair right now, I guess it depends on the system, the surrounding pieces, the situation, etc.

A team with a great RB and good WR, I probably would want a good pocket passer such as a Bledsoe or Manning or such. A team which is weak at RB, it might be a bit more important to have a QB who can scramble , to help keep the pass coverage honest..

So talking specifically about running QBs who can also pass well, Mcnair I think is one of the best. People forget the insane amount of yards he passed for in college. Obviously the level of college play where he went is not top tier, it still shows that he is capable of passing. Would I take Mcnair over some of the other running QBs? well I am not sold on Culpepper, McNabb is probably a tossup right now, Vick perhaps for a team that is rebuilding or not a current contender.. Most of the running QBs do not make good long term QBs unless they learn to also pass. Mcnair does this well..

So I guess I wouldn't necessarily pick him over any other QB, but can see some situations where he would be one of my top picks or top pick for QB.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by TroyF
He's also not going down the field anymore. In those 10 starts I mention, he hasn't had a single game of over 7 yards per pass attempt. (Here are the numbers, game by game: 6.88, 5.16, 5.26, 6.69, 6.09, 3.45, 5.21, 5.88, 6.05, 4.71)

If you give me the OLD Brett Farve? The one that threw the ball down the field? (7.69 yards per pass attempt in '01) I'd take him in a <3beat.

Just a side note...

If you're measuring a QB's tendency or willingness to "go down the field," is YPA (yards per attempt) the best stat to use? Seems to me that a QB who goes downfield more frequently might not necessarily have a higher YPA than one who throws lots of underneath stuff. (There seems to be a butarl offset there - longer passes are higher yards, but tend to yield lower percentage completions also)

Might yards per completion be a better indicator? (Yes, I realize that YAC can throw that off, too - but it might be more directly connected to "downfield" than any stat I can think of acquiring easily)

I'm not taking issue with the crux of your argument... just making a statistical/data-oriented observation.

[Travis]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Just a side note...

If you're measuring a QB's tendency or willingness to "go down the field," is YPA (yards per attempt) the best stat to use? Seems to me that a QB who goes downfield more frequently might not necessarily have a higher YPA than one who throws lots of underneath stuff. (There seems to be a butarl offset there - longer passes are higher yards, but tend to yield lower percentage completions also)

Might yards per completion be a better indicator? (Yes, I realize that YAC can throw that off, too - but it might be more directly connected to "downfield" than any stat I can think of acquiring easily)

I'm not taking issue with the crux of your argument... just making a statistical/data-oriented observation.

Best bet might be to check the WR's average yards per catch on the team even, as ypc can be offset if they throw a lot of screens to try and suck the secondary back after a few long balls.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
Bulger was good, not great. If he doesn't start pushing the ball down the field more, you'll see Kurt back in there soon enough. Bulger deserves to be the starter now though, no doubt about it. I need to send you some old Warner tape I have so you can see he isn't as bad as you seem to think he is.


I know you have trouble believing this, but there are those of us who have always felt Warner's success was due to those around him. All he ever did was complete throws to wide open recievers while having infinite time to throw. We non-believers said at the time that if either were taken away from him, he would crumble. It was, and he has.

I agree that Bulger was good but not great. Still, good is a tremendous upgrade from what Warner has shown the last few times he started. One thing Warner was during his success was decisive, and that appears to be gone.

I am very interested in what happens at the Martz press conference today. I think they exaggerated the extent of Warner's injuries (people have said there was no concussion) to give Bulger a chance. They cannot pretend to be benching Warner for health now, and for Bulger to keep the job (which most people feel he deserves) they have to admit they are benching Warner for his performance.

Originally posted by TroyF
He's (McNair) the best QB in football right now. Period.

And how. Not the best passer, not the best fantasy QB, but the best NFL quarterback. No NFL player is more important to his team. I cannot see how someone could have watched his performance last Sunday and not be impressed.

That said, this little nugget of opinion (McNair as best NFL QB) would be hard to arrive at watching yesterday's game.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Just a side note...

If you're measuring a QB's tendency or willingness to "go down the field," is YPA (yards per attempt) the best stat to use? Seems to me that a QB who goes downfield more frequently might not necessarily have a higher YPA than one who throws lots of underneath stuff. (There seems to be a butarl offset there - longer passes are higher yards, but tend to yield lower percentage completions also)

Might yards per completion be a better indicator? (Yes, I realize that YAC can throw that off, too - but it might be more directly connected to "downfield" than any stat I can think of acquiring easily)

I'm not taking issue with the crux of your argument... just making a statistical/data-oriented observation.

QS,

I should have relayed some more stats in there to make the arguement complete. Look at this little table:

Farve:

2001: 61.7% completions, 7.69 yards per pass attempt
2002: 61.9% completions, 6.64 yards per pass attempt

The numbers clearly show he isn't pushing the ball down the field anymore. This year, after 40 completions, he's had 2 of those go for 20 yards or more against the secondaries of the Lions and Vikings.

The signs just aren't good. :(

TroyF