Two Atlanta Thrashers "seriously injured" in car crash

[GrantDawg]

linky (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/0903/30wreck.html)

Thrashers' Heatley, Snyder injured in car wreck

By JOHN MANASSO
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

Thrashers forward Dany Heatley, MVP of the 2002 all-star game and one of the NHL's rising young stars, and teammate Dan Snyder were seriously injured in a one-car accident on Lenox Road in Buckhead late Monday night.

Both players were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment after the 10:30 p.m. accident. Snyder, 25, was listed in critical condition and Heatley, 22, the NHL's 2002 rookie of the year, was listed as stable but was still being evaluated. Snyder, 25, was thrown from the car, which was traveling 80 mph, police said, and was scheduled to undergo surgery for a depressed skull fracture, according to team president Stan Kasten.

Heatley, who was driving, had a broken jaw, Kasten said, and several media outlets reported that he was conscious and talking. His black sports car was mangled beyond recognition in the crash.

General manager Don Waddell was in Toronto for NHL general managers meetings. He was scheduled to make flight that arrived in Atlanta at 6:45 a.m. Also scheduled to be on the flight were Snyder's parents, who live in the Toronto area.

Waddell said team doctors William Whaley and Scott Gillogly were attending to the players at Grady.

The Thrashers are currently in training camp and practice was scheduled for 10:30 a.m. at the the team's practice facility, IceForum, in Duluth. Wednesday is the team's seventh preseason game, with one more on Friday before the season starts on Oct. 9 against Columbus at Philips Arena.

Heatley, a Calgary, Alberta, native who played two years of college at the University of Wisconsin, was sixth in the league in goal-scoring last year with 41 and ranked ninth in the NHL in points with 89. He was named the NHL's rookie of the year for the 2001-02 season.

Snyder was expected to make the team as a fourth-line center, but was going to start the season injured, as he underwent surgery several days before camp to repair a partially torn tendon in his left ankle.

Snyder, born in Elmira, Ontario, is a 6-foot, 190-pound center signed by the Thrashers as a free agent on July 6, 1999. In 2002, he helped the Thrashers' top minor-league team, the Chicago Wolves, win the American Hockey League championship, the Calder Cup.

A feisty player on the ice, Snyder scored 10 goals and had four assists in 34 games.

Heatley, 6-3, 215 pounds, is seen as an emerging leader on the Thrashers and possible future captain of the team despite his age. Over the summer, he returned to University of Wisconsin to take a political science class toward his degree in history. He said it was the first time since leaving school at the end of the 2001 college hockey season that he had returned to take a class.

Heatley is scheduled to make a base salary this year of $1.075 million, but has made several million more than that in his first two years by hitting bonus clauses in his contract.

Entering their fifth season, the Thrashers have designs on making the playoffs for the first time. They finished 10th in the Eastern Conference last year, two spots out of a playoff berth. Much of their hopes are pinned on Heatley, their best player.

[GrantDawg]

Things do not sound to good for Snyder. I just hope they both recover without permanent damage. Of course, anytime you see this you think alcohol, but they have said anything about that yet.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
Things do not sound to good for Snyder. I just hope they both recover without permanent damage. Of course, anytime you see this you think alcohol, but they have said anything about that yet. I just heard on the radio that the police are saying excess speed is in all likelihood the cause. 80+ MPH on Lenox Road.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, just saw the car. It was split in two. Ugly crash.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That (the AJC story) was the first thing I saw when I cranked up the computer this morning :(

[Celeval]

Listening to sports talk on the way in - sounds like they were coming back from an autograph meet-and-greet session. Apparently Heatley has a penchant for driving /real/ fast, especially up and down Peachtree - this was on Lenox, just off Peachtree; haven't heard word one about alcohol or any such stuff.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Celeval
Listening to sports talk on the way in - sounds like they were coming back from an autograph meet-and-greet session. Apparently Heatley has a penchant for driving /real/ fast, especially up and down Peachtree - this was on Lenox, just off Peachtree; haven't heard word one about alcohol or any such stuff.

That's the word I heard, too. Of course, then whoever talks about it then brings up a drunk driving story. This is more a "being young and driving a ferrari" story.

[Ksyrup]

Regardless of whether alcohol is involved, depending on Snyder's status, Heatley may looking at criminal charges. Not good.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Regardless of whether alcohol is involved, depending on Snyder's status, Heatley may looking at criminal charges. Not good.

And a lawsuit. Unless Snyder dies (it sounds bad, but I haven't the term "grave" when discussing his condition so that is good), the worse he could get is reckless endangerment which is a misdemeanor. He'll probably lose his license for a while, but that's about it.

[Ben E Lou]

Man...just heard where on Lenox Road the accident took place. That sounds like it was in a 2-lane residential area. :(

[Ajaxab]

The EA Sports cover jinx strikes again?

[JonInMiddleGA]

SD - there's a pic of the car & where it hit in the updated version of the story at AJC.com.

Looks like he either struck the brick wall & iron gate of a subdivision entrance or a private home, from the angle of the picture I can't tell exactly where it is on Lenox.

Meanwhile, Heatley has already been charged with reckless driving & serious injury by vehicle.

[Ajaxab]

Note to self. Scroll down the topics page next time.

[KWhit]

This kind of thing makes me so mad. What the hell was this idiot thinking? Driving his Lamborghini 80 mph through that area! I'm just glad he didn't hit any other cars or pedestrians.

It also makes me sick that ATL sports talk were basically giving him a free pass (at least 790 was). They were saying things like "that's what guys do - drive fast" and "when you have that kind of car, you have to turn it loose every now and then."

[GrantDawg]

680 talked about how good a guy he generally is, but did have much to say about how people need to slow down. They also touched on whether it is good for young people to have cars on the street that goes as fast as these do (I thought it was a Ferrari?).

[GrantDawg]

Early pic, not the best angle I've seen.

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/67/92/image_192670.jpg

[Celeval]

Yeah, it was the ferrari - Kovalchuk has a lambourgini.

I think it's mostly Mike Bell on 790 giving him the free pass, which figured - I don't agree with him all so much to begin with. Heh.

[JonInMiddleGA]

from the picture, I can't tell what kind of car it was. There ain't a whole lot left of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

GrantDawg, check the front page of ajc.com, it has a reverse angle of the pic that I thought was better. I'd post it but dont' really know how to do that here.

[KWhit]

I bet you're right about the Ferrari. They were talking about both of them and their cars and I just got confused as to which was which.

[GrantDawg]

I'm looking for that pic now, but the one they are showing is just a fense.

[GrantDawg]

http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0930/2520186_200X150.jpg

[Tekneek]

Snyder will be lucky to last the next 72 hours. Then he will be lucky to be able to see out of both eyes, as well as avoid paralysis. Best he can hope for is being able to stay alive and be able to move about on his own. His hockey career is most likely over. He can thank Heatley for that for the rest of his life.

[Ksyrup]

Heatley's been charged with driving recklessly and serious injury by vehicle.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow. That's horrible. The car was sliced in too. What a shame. Heatley sounds llike he will be ok, but Snyder, a depressed skull fracture is not good. I hope he can make a recovery and live a normal life. A horrible thing to read about first thing in the morning.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Heatley's been charged with driving recklessly and serious injury by vehicle.

Are either felonies?

[GrantDawg]

In a quick search, I found in several states they are not. Even with a death, he could end up with this same type charge since he wasn't drinking or racing.

[ice4277]

If this really was a residential area he was in, he needs to do some time for this. Notwithstanding the fact that he probably destroyed a friend's future, he likely endangered countless other people as well. Whether or not he was drinking or racing, there's a big difference between going 80 on the highway and 80 on a road with houses.

[GrantDawg]

Snyder got out of surgery at 10AM. No other update available. There will be a press conference at 12pm.

[Maple Leafs]

Has it been confirmed that Healey wasn't drinking?

[Ksyrup]

OK, I found these two explanations of GA law on the net (one an attorney's site, the other from GA Legal Aid). With the obligatory "I don't know diddly squat about GA law," here's what I think:


FELONY TRAFFIC OFFENSES

The three most common traffic violations that can result in felony charges are vehicular homicide, serious injury by vehicle, and habitual violator. As felonies, these are tried in a superior court in Georgia.

Vehicular homicide involves a situation in which a person is killed by an auto. The driver at fault may have been driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, driving recklessly,
or fleeing from police officers. This offense is usually a felony and carries a penalty of 2 to 10 years in prison, plus a fine for fleeing from the police.

Serious injury by vehicle also occurs when a driver injures another person while violating DUI or reckless-driving laws. A serious injury would be loss of vision or of any part of the body. This is a felony and carries a penalty of one to five years in prison.


First degree vehicular homicide is a felony. Vehicular homicides are classified as first degree if the driver:

(1) unlawfully met or overtook a school bus;
(2) unlawfully failed to stop after collision;
(3) was driving recklessly;
(4) was driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs;
(5) failed to stop for, or otherwise was attempting to flee from a law enforcement officer, or
(6) had previously been declared a habitual violator.


First degree vehicular homicide is punishable by 2 to 15 years of imprisonment. If the accused had previously been declared a habitual violator, then at least 1 year of the sentence must be served.

Second degree vehicular homicide encompasses all vehicular homicides without intent to kill that take place in violation of any motor vehicle law other than one that would require the classification as first degree. For example, a death resulting from a failure to yield to oncoming traffic, speeding, or driving too slowly, unless such constituted reckless driving, could be charged as a homicide by vehicle in the second degree.

So, if Snyder dies, it's a felony.

Even if Snyder doesn't die, "serious injury by vehicle" would constitute a felony.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Maple Leafs
Has it been confirmed that Healey wasn't drinking?

No, they do not think so.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Ksyrup


So, if Snyder dies, it's a felony.

Even if Snyder doesn't die, "serious injury by vehicle" would constitute a felony.


It must be. The site I found dealt with Kentucky and another state, in in both it was not a felony. Even with first degree, the line "If the accused had previously been declared a habitual violator, then at least 1 year of the sentence must be served" suggest he might not see much time if any.

[Ksyrup]

I agree. I don't think someone like him would serve any time.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I agree. I don't think someone like him would serve any time.

To be fair, most wouldn't. I've known of several incidents like this and most of the time they don't do "hard time." Even in a DUI scenario, you have a chance not to serve more than 6 months much of the time, though they have cracked down much more on that.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I meant that as "star hockey player" AND no prior history (that I'm aware of, anyway).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Based on similar cases I'm familiar or even vaguely familiar with (same sort of accident, circumstances, everything except the "celebrity") it'd be pretty doubtful that a first-time offender would do any jail time in Georgia for this sort of case.

If Snyder, God forbid, dies ... then the likelihood of jail time goes up but still wouldn't be a sure thing, it'd probably come down to the judge.

[bbor]

He has 5 charges pending now apparently.This is a horrible accident in general.Godspeed to all involved.

[Tekneek]

Stupidity. I always knew the biggest obstacle in Don Waddell's plan to tank the team for 3 years and draft high would be the hotshot youths he would get. I figured one of them would try to off himself within 3 or 4 years of joining the team and Heatley finally came through with it. Shame of it is that he may have ruined all chances Snyder had at a hockey career, and this guy was never going to land the big money contracts. If Snyder survives, Heatley better give him some big cash for ruining his life.

[GrantDawg]

The latest report says the police is unsure if either of them were in a seatbelt and if it would have made any difference. They said the seat-belts were torn to shreads in the accident and most likely failed or would have failed. It is apparent that these little cars are made to go fast and not for impact.

[Buzzbee]

I heard on the radio this morning that Snyder is in a coma. Not looking good.

[GrantDawg]

The coma is partially drug-induced. Many times when someone is recovering from a major surgery, especially if they are on a resperator, they will induce a coma. The good news is that he show no signs of brain-damage so far. To qoute his doctor: "His CT scan looked fairly good," said Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a neurosurgeon who operated on Snyder, referring to computer brain imaging. "It did not show any significant bleeding,"

Good news so far, but it is early.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The coma is partially drug-induced. Many times when someone is recovering from a major surgery, especially if they are on a resperator, they will induce a coma. The good news is that he show no signs of brain-damage so far. To qoute his doctor: "His CT scan looked fairly good," said Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a neurosurgeon who operated on Snyder, referring to computer brain imaging. "It did not show any significant bleeding,"

Good news so far, but it is early.

Thanks for the additional info, GrantDawg.

[GrantDawg]

Couple of new pics:


This shows the how the front of the car was a good ways away from the back.
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/35/93/image_193350.jpg

This shows the seatbelt. It does appear they would have been worthless.
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/03/35/93/image_193353.jpg

[GrantDawg]

That was Dan Snyder's seatbelt.

[Craptacular]

:( So much for seeing a Badger done good.

BTW, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is CNN's medical expert. He performed an emergency surgery in Iraq while he was reporting during the war.

[Tekneek]

Pretty much universally now, the opinion seems to be that Heatley burned up his chance to be the next poster boy for the NHL with this stupid act. I agree with that. You never read about Wayne Gretzky doing this kind of thing, and it was because he knew how to handle himself. Gretzky never even really finished high school, as far as I know, yet he was more mature than Heatley at the same point in their lives. I guess great credit must go to Wayne's family, for helping him gain those personal values that he carried with him the rest of his life. Not only has Heatley failed, but so did his parents. I read the articles about his dad fearing some accident with his son's "need for speed" and new Ferrari, but I have to wonder why he did not do something about it. He should have talked to his son and Heatley should have respected him enough to honor it. Very shameful activity.

[Ksyrup]

While reading one of the articles about this incident, the Jeff Alm incident was mentioned, and I had completely forgotten that one. Alm was a Houston Oiler who was behind the wheel of a car involved in an accident that killed his best friend (I think this was 1993). Right on the spot, Alm pulled a shotgun out of the trunk and killed himself.

Emotionally, Heatley is going to have a hard time recovering from this, especially when a bunch of drunk fans start heckling him, because you know this will come up.

As an aside, I did some googling on the Jeff Alm incident and ran across an article by Ralph Wiley on ESPN2 - who I admit I do not like anyway - and he demonstrated why I don't like him. I think the article was about sports' deaths, and he briefly referenced the "Jeff Alm murder/suicide." Now come on. While it's certainly possible that Alm, had he lived, would have been charged with something - maybe even murder depending on the facts (although I think that's unlikely) - Wiley was playing a bit fast and loose with the phrase "murder/suicide," wasn't he? This was not the kind of act one thinks of when they hear "murder/suicide." I hate writers who do that kind of shit.

[GrantDawg]

Here's the latest (http://www.ajc.com/thrashers/content/sports/thrashers/1003/04heatley.html) on their condition. Heatley has torn two knee ligaments in his right knee. He'll probably be out for a long while, though they haven't given a timetable. Snyder is still in Critical condition.

[Tekneek]

Heatley is more than likely done for the season. Sufficient knee injury that it could effect his entire career.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Heatley is more than likely done for the season. Sufficient knee injury that it could effect his entire career.

Did you hear that somewhere, or guessing from the info? It wouldn't surprise me since they refused to guess a time-table.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Pretty much universally now, the opinion seems to be that Heatley burned up his chance to be the next poster boy for the NHL with this stupid act. I agree with that. You never read about Wayne Gretzky doing this kind of thing, and it was because he knew how to handle himself. Gretzky never even really finished high school, as far as I know, yet he was more mature than Heatley at the same point in their lives. I guess great credit must go to Wayne's family, for helping him gain those personal values that he carried with him the rest of his life. Not only has Heatley failed, but so did his parents. I read the articles about his dad fearing some accident with his son's "need for speed" and new Ferrari, but I have to wonder why he did not do something about it. He should have talked to his son and Heatley should have respected him enough to honor it. Very shameful activity.

you know, I think this is just a little bit unfair. He was speeding - stupidly, and excessively. I've sped before at extremely unsafe speeds. Maybe Wayne Gretzky has too. Maybe Dan Snyder would have been going at that speed, too, if Heatley had let him take the car for a spin. It was an accident, and a stupid one that could have been avoided, but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to start blaming Heatley's parents as failures because this happened, or start congratulating parents of people this didn't happen to their kids.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
you know, I think this is just a little bit unfair. He was speeding - stupidly, and excessively. I've sped before at extremely unsafe speeds. Maybe Wayne Gretzky has too. Maybe Dan Snyder would have been going at that speed, too, if Heatley had let him take the car for a spin. It was an accident, and a stupid one that could have been avoided, but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to start blaming Heatley's parents as failures because this happened, or start congratulating parents of people this didn't happen to their kids.

With you. It was a stupid accident, but I can think of much worse actions than speeding in a sports car that have been ignored by the public.

[Tekneek]

Draft Dodger, I suppose you are not familiar with the road he did this on. Going 60 mph on that road is a recipe for death and destruction. Getting up to 80 or faster is asking for trouble. It's a bumpy road with hills and curves. It is generally pretty busy, with condos and such on both sides of the road, and a lot of pedestrian traffic. This is absolutely nothing like speeding on a highway.

I guess I don't think engaging in this kind of activity is a freebie like some do.

Here are a few things I do know :

Gretzky never wrecked a car going 80 in a 35 and ejected a friend from the car, placing him in a coma, who then found out he had injured himself in a way that will require many months of rehab, as well as having to answer criminal charges in a court.

I may have done my share of stupid things in my life, but I have never wrecked a car going 80 in a 35 and ejected anyone from the car. I have never had a vehicle accident that was my fault. I have a perfectly clean driving record with no tickets for anything.

[Travis]

Really, who here hasn't hit at least 80 mph at some point in their car? It's his responsibility, and as is, he may have the death/serious injury of a friend/team-mate on his mind for the rest of his life in addition to having the game he loves to play (and the pay) possibly taken from him for the rest of his life.

You can only hope that Dany will learn from this (and if he recovers) not do anything like it again. As for his parents failing? They raised a kid, who put everything he had into achieving a goal the rest of us can only dream about. Everybody has their own character flaws, and his was driving fast. Parent's can't wipe out every last problem with their children. How many bad things had you heard about Heatley before this? How many women has he abused, how many times of rehab? He'd probably done that kind of speed in that car numerous times without incident, and hey, may have even been caught and let go once they realized who it was (now can some of the blame rest on the cops who do that?).

Point is, how he deals with this will show everybody just what Dany Heatley is made of, and I for one hope that Snyder comes out of this with a clean bill of health, for his own sake, and because Heatley doesn't deserve that on his conscience for the rest of his life.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
With you. It was a stupid accident, but I can think of much worse actions than speeding in a sports car that have been ignored by the public.

Yeah, so can I. I guess as long as somebody is doing something worse it is all ok. So what if somebody murdered 4 people, because somebody else has murdered 5. So what if both of those guys killed 6 people, one of them cooked up some of the parts and ate them. There will almost always be examples of somebody doing something worse. That doesn't give everybody else a free ride.

I think having the kind of "accident" that Heatley had on Lenox Road is real bad. Especially since he ejected someone who may never be able to work again in his life. He is so incredibly lucky that he did not hit another car or pedestrians that it is just amazing. That does not make it ok. He made a decision to disregard the life of anybody else that might have been on that road that night. That seems like much more than a simple "accident" to me.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Tekneek

I may have done my share of stupid things in my life, but I have never wrecked a car going 80 in a 35 and ejected anyone from the car. I have never had a vehicle accident that was my fault. I have a perfectly clean driving record with no tickets for anything.

Does that mean you should be the NHL poster boy? You have never done anything wrong in your life that might have lead to an accident in some form?

I agree what he was doing is stupid, but have you ever driven a Ferrari? Have you ever driven a Ferrari on this road? I dare say 80 feels a whole lot like 45-50 in a car like that. I've taken a 35 MPH curve at 75 in a sports car before (this wasn't a residential area) on the encouragement of a car salesman. The car handled it like nothing. Was that stupid? Probably, but not exactly immoral.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Yeah, so can I. I guess as long as somebody is doing something worse it is all ok. So what if somebody murdered 4 people, because somebody else has murdered 5. So what if both of those guys killed 6 people, one of them cooked up some of the parts and ate them. There will almost always be examples of somebody doing something worse. That doesn't give everybody else a free ride.

I think having the kind of "accident" that Heatley had on Lenox Road is real bad. Especially since he ejected someone who may never be able to work again in his life. He is so incredibly lucky that he did not hit another car or pedestrians that it is just amazing. That does not make it ok. He made a decision to disregard the life of anybody else that might have been on that road that night. That seems like much more than a simple "accident" to me.

I never said it wasn't bad. What I said was the public has forgiven much worse. That is a far cry from saying he did nothing wrong or shouldn't be punished. It is that if Ray Lewis can become the NFL poster boy, then I think Dan Heatley hasn't completely thrown away his shot.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Travis
Really, who here hasn't hit at least 80 mph at some point in their car? It's his responsibility, and as is, he may have the death/serious injury of a friend/team-mate on his mind for the rest of his life in addition to having the game he loves to play (and the pay) possibly taken from him for the rest of his life.

Anybody who has hit 80 mph on the road Heatley did this on was taking an incredible risk. The road can be hard to manage at the speed limit at times, and that is 35 mph. I have not hit 80 in a very long time, and I did that on I-16 which is pretty much a flat straight road between Macon, GA and Savannah, GA. That night I had not seen a car going either way for about 10 miles and drove faster than I regularly would. If I had wrecked, I was only going to take myself out and that is the way it should be.

I agree that Heatley seemed like a good person. That's why, combined with his talent, he was the only Thrasher with some endorsement deals. You know they will cut that stuff off. Who wants to have a man who did what he did in a residential area as their pitch man? Probably nobody for a while, especially if Dan Snyder never wakes up and takes on a regular life again.

I hope Dan Snyder recovers and gets a chance to accomplish something in his life. Hockey is over for him. I'm sure he loved it while it lasted. I'm not sure how I feel about Heatley, because I know it is only with great luck that he did not kill anybody. Thankfully it is not my job to reconcile his acts. I don't have to forgive him, and even if I do it also does not matter.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I never said it wasn't bad. What I said was the public has forgiven much worse. That is a far cry from saying he did nothing wrong or shouldn't be punished. It is that if Ray Lewis can become the NFL poster boy, then I think Dan Heatley hasn't completely thrown away his shot.

Oh yeah, you're probably right. In the near future, though, his endorsement deals are going to quietly disappear into the background. I'm not the only one saying this. NHL media and analysts all around the continent have been saying the same thing since the news broke.

Ray Lewis also succeeds in that role because there is a certain segment of the market that likes a thug/gangsta image. This doesn't translate in quite the same way to hockey and I hope it never does.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
I may have done my share of stupid things in my life, but I have never wrecked a car going 80 in a 35 and ejected anyone from the car. I have never had a vehicle accident that was my fault. I have a perfectly clean driving record with no tickets for anything.

and if you had, that would suddenly make you a bad person? look, the guy made a mistake. he apparantly wasn't drunk. he apparantly wasn't on drugs. he didn't have kiddie porn in the trunk. Dan Snyder persumably wasn't being held against his will. I think you are being extremely and unfairly judgemental for someone who fucked up. People make mistakes. I have. You have. I am a good person - but if people were to only judge me by the mistakes I've made, they wouldn't think very highly of me at all.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Oh yeah, you're probably right. In the near future, though, his endorsement deals are going to quietly disappear into the background. I'm not the only one saying this. NHL media and analysts all around the continent have been saying the same thing since the news broke.

Ray Lewis also succeeds in that role because there is a certain segment of the market that likes a thug/gangsta image. This doesn't translate in quite the same way to hockey and I hope it never does.

I agree that in the near future it will affect his endorsements. Heck, if he isn't able to play this year I doubt he'll be doing any endorsements in that time period either. Once he gets back, though, your going to see a whole lot of touching comeback stories. And if he can return to previous form, he'll be as much if not more endearing to advertisers.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Ray Lewis also succeeds in that role because there is a certain segment of the market that likes a thug/gangsta image. This doesn't translate in quite the same way to hockey and I hope it never does.

there's also a certain segment of the market that realizes the man was not convicted.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
there's also a certain segment of the market that realizes the man was not convicted.

"Lewis pleaded guilty Monday to misdemeanor obstruction of justice charges as part of a plea bargain."

So, if you plead guilty to a charge it is not a conviction?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
"Lewis pleaded guilty Monday to misdemeanor obstruction of justice charges as part of a plea bargain."

So, if you plead guilty to a charge it is not a conviction?

he was charged with murder. although many felt that he was headed for acquittal, he decided to plea out before the end of his trial. the other 2 defendants charged (who he testified against as part of his bargain) were acquitted.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
he was charged with murder. although many felt that he was headed for acquittal, he decided to plea out before the end of his trial. the other 2 defendants charged (who he testified against as part of his bargain) were acquitted.

So was he convicted or not? He plead guilty to a charge. Is that a conviction or not?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
So was he convicted or not? He plead guilty to a charge. Is that a conviction or not?

yes it is.

it is not a conviction of murder, as a lot of people seem to want to believe.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
yes it is.

it is not a conviction of murder, as a lot of people seem to want to believe.

I've actually never encountered anyone who thought that, or at least not any that have actually said they believe that.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Tekneek
I've actually never encountered anyone who thought that, or at least not any that have actually said they believe that.

so, to clarify, the posts above about Ray Lewis overcoming a potential loss of endorsements were referring to Lewis' conviction of...obstruction of justice?

I think you understand fully what I'm trying to say here. I don't think it's right to judge Heatley severely for one mistake. It doesn't excuse what he did, but I don't think that one accident like this automatically makes him a bad person, and I think it's ludacrous to insinuate that someone who hadn't been unlucky enough to be in a tragic accident like this is a good person.

I also don't like the idea that Lewis gets labelled as a thug when, really, there's no proof to that effect. He took a plea bargain - in my eyes, that's similar to settling out of court in civil cases. I know that sometimes cases are settled out of court because that is the easiest thing to do, and I know that sometimes plea bargains are taken for the same reason. Ray Lewis may be an asshole in real life. Heatley too. Or, they may be decent people who made honest mistakes. Without knowing either of them personally, I'm certainly not going to be the one to judge them. Like I said, I know that some people could look at some of my less-proud moments in my life and judge me to be a bad person; they would be mistaken.

Obviously, you feel comfortable judging people based on a few of their actions. I do not. C'est la vie.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Tekneek
I've actually never encountered anyone who thought that, or at least not any that have actually said they believe that.

Really?

You know, no one ever actually says "Ray Lewis was convixted of murder", but are you honestly telling me you haven't seen a Ray Lewis murdering or stabbing joke? You have never seen the man put down as "a murderer"?

I have, and on this board, a lot.

I'm not saying Ray Lewis is a saint. I think he has some really screwed up friends that he has kept in his life (or did up until then), and he was stupid to have continued to support them, even at the risk of his own livelihood and freedom. But never once was Lewis thought to be the guy with the knife, nor was it ever shown he took an active role in the tussle (he was just a member of the same party which had other members who did).

Everyone calls the man a punk gangster, but all I ever see him do is go about his business making great plays on the field and generally being quiet and shutting up (which he did before the incident as well). Every now and then he tosses out some smack about how he's going to dump so-and-so player on his ass in such-and-such game--that's the worst I have everh eard him say and it's the same crap you hear froma wholbe bunch of other players every week.

IMO, he made a stupid decision in support of his friends, and now a whole bunch of people make assumtpions about him, his lifestyle, and his guilt int he events of that night.

I see guys who are truly trash of the world in the NFL who don't get half the attacks this guy does. I am talking guys who have had multiple upon multiple incidents of stupidity, and yet, no one talks about them. Then we get this guy, who is quietly the best defensive player of our era and got involved in just one questionable incident, and he's raked over the coals.

Chief Rum

[Tekneek]

I must have missed those jokes. I don't read every thread on this board, so I do miss a lot of what gets talked about. There just isn't enough time to read it like a newspaper.

Ray Lewis plays up a thug/gangsta image for his street cred. You know it. Denying it is rather silly. I didn't say he was a thug or a gangsta, I said he has that image. There are other players in the NFL and the NBA that play up this kind of image. You don't see that in the NHL.

I said he has that image and it appeals to a portion of the NFL market. Then I was told he was never convicted for anything. Then reluctantly it was admitted that he had been convicted of something. I'm not sure why his conviction became an important part of the conversation because I was not the one who brought it up.

I agree that Ray Lewis is a premier defensive player. I do say he has an image has a thug/gangsta though, and it is alright with him because it works in his favor.

[Chief Rum]

Can you show me any links to any news items not related to that incident or him simply trash talking his opponents that has him promoting a gangsta/thug image?

Off the top of my head I can't think of any time when he is playing up being a thug.

CR

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
I think you understand fully what I'm trying to say here. I don't think it's right to judge Heatley severely for one mistake. It doesn't excuse what he did, but I don't think that one accident like this automatically makes him a bad person, and I think it's ludacrous to insinuate that someone who hadn't been unlucky enough to be in a tragic accident like this is a good person.

So, you think wrecking a car at an excessive speed on a residential portion of a road known for its bumps, hills, and curves are the actions of respectful and responsible person who has done nothing wrong? Do good people drive in a manner that launches their friends out of a vehicle and into a coma? I'm not saying the man is evil incarnate and can never overcome these problems, but to say this kind of activity is an honest or even silly mistake is letting it go a little too easy. Anybody even attempting to drive at that rate of speed on that road is being a menace to society, whether they pull it off without incident or not.

You talk about like Heatley tripped on the way home and his Ferrari hit 80, burst into pieces, and launched Dan Snyder into the roadway fracturing his skull. Unfortunately, it does not work like that in the real world. In the real world, we know that Heatley made a conscious decision to drive recklessly with a complete disregard for himself, Snyder, all other vehicles that may have been on the road, and any possible pedestrians. Was it a display of very bad judgment? Absolutely. Is Heatley 100% responsible for it? Absolutely. Was it a very bad thing for him to do? You're damn right it was. Dan Snyder has been unconscious for a few days now because his friend, Dany Heatley, was unable to drive his car home without busting it into pieces.