Front Office Football 2004

[Solecismic]

Solecismic Software is proud to announce the upcoming release of Front Office Football 2004.

New features include multi-player league support, a revised amateur draft and a greatly extended statistical almanac.

Please visit http://www.solecismic.com for details.

I hope to have a few screen shots ready in the next few days.

The game is in beta right now, and should be ready for release within weeks.

[GrantDawg]

Multi-player. Who'd thunk it? :)

[JeeberD]

Shit. Gotta start saving the bucks now...

[Ben E Lou]

http://www.solecismic.com

<center>New Features for Front Office Football 2004</center>
The new version of Front Office Football includes dozens of new features, designed to bring as much information as possible to your fingertips. The new game features the following:

Multi-Player League Support. Choose a commissioner to run the games for your league. Your commissioner will simulate the games and process every team's instruction set for each stage during the game. Up to 32 people can compete in each multi-player league.

Player Holdouts. Both veterans and rookies can hold out for a better contract offer. Watch your underpaid veteran refuse to take the field until he gets the big bonus he's always wanted. Watch your rookies haggle for a few extra dollars under the league's rookie signing system.

Extended Post-Draft Free Agency. A new eight-stage free agency period, starting after the amateur draft, ensures that you won't easily grab all the players you need to fill your roster.

Career Statistics. You'll have access to every piece of data generated by every player who played as much as one single down during your entire career.

Player Linking. Whenever a player is listed in the game, you'll be able to access his playing record directly from that list.

Revised Amateur Draft. Rookies will be tested in a league scouting combine, including the 40-yard dash, an agility drill, a strength test and an intelligence test. Scouts will know a little less about the rookies, so you'll have to learn to read these numbers and separate the workout warriors from the true players.

League Analysis. Draft experts grade each team's performance in the draft and feature the top young players in the game.

Quarterback Comparison. A new screen features the record of every current starting quarterback and every quarterback with at least 50 starts in the league.

Long Snappers, Holders and Gunners. On special teams, you can designate which players take these important roles.

Offensive and Defensive Coordinators. You'll be able to bid on the services of coordinators as well as coaches. Every staff member has his strengths and weaknesses, and some will be suited to different jobs.

Game Summary Screen. View the top passer, rusher and receiver for every team in every game ever played in your universe.

Game Plan Profiles. Load and save complete game plans, allowing you even tighter control over your team's on-field performance.

Customized Screen Display. Maintain complete color control over just about every element of every screen in the game. Keep different color profiles for each team you control.

Player file generator and Draft file generator. Construct player files and draft files in your favorite spreadsheet program, export them to comma-delimited text files, then use the generator to create files for use with the game.

[Ben E Lou]

Once again, Gindin cometh like a thief in the night. ;)

[JeeberD]

Dola-

This sounds great. More stats, multi-player, better draft. Should be loads of fun!

[JeeberD]

Long Snappers, Holders and Gunners. On special teams, you can designate which players take these important roles.

Gunners? :confused:

[EagleFan]

Dam, where's my kleenex?

[Tigercat]

I knew being up at 4am had to be good for something someday! I've never bought a FOF before, only played TCY. I might start with this addition, sounds pretty sweet.

[SunDancer]

Hmmm...I wonder about customiziation of the multi-player leagues...Expansion included?

[JeeberD]

Oh, and I claim the Cowboys in the inaugural FOFC FOF2K4 league... :D

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by SunDancer
Hmmm...I wonder about customiziation of the multi-player leagues...Expansion included?

I as wondering about that myself. Does it have to be a 32 team league? I'm assuming that it will be possible to start in any year we want, so historical leagues will be possble (thanks to 3ric, lytic, Senator, etc).

This could be great...

[Ben E Lou]

OK, OK, OK.

Looks like Ol' SkyDog is gonna have to get in a multiplayer league after all....

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by EagleFan
Dam, where's my kleenex? Dat game look so good, it make your....

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

It is nice to see that despite Jim "selling out" to the multi crowd (couldn't resist there Jimbo.... ;) ), some SERIOUS additions have been made that should greatly enhance the single-player experience.

[EagleFan]

Jim flies in under the radar and has stolen some thunder. I think my funds will be redirected, once I get the needed funds. This should really get this forum hopping. I see multiple FOFC leagues forming.

Once I get back to work (still waiting on the company that offered me the job to get it approved by their CFO in Vegas before I get a start date), I'll be getting my site set up for a league of some sort, and getting the others rolling again. Sorry, had to throw that plug in. ;)

[SunDancer]

I love to get league sign-ups going.

[Masked]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Shit. Gotta start saving the bucks now...

Well you already got $5 if you bought FOF4 (see Jim's site for info about the coupons).

[JeeberD]

Woohoo! I like coupons!!!


Hmmm, wonder if he got some FOFC names in the file. He showed some interest last week when someone mentioned it. That would be cool as hell...

[SunDancer]

With the multitude of FOFC leagues expected, I really like to see some sort of system created. Sorta your franchise worth and your net worth. Can use it to "swamp" franchises and spots in leagues, but have to match that value.

[Neuqua]

I kid you not, here's the transcript of my AIM conversation with Marmel tonight (minus the dirty, kinky stuff)

Me: I'm bored
Marm: something blah blah
Me: I'm more in a football mood now, why can't Jim just release a multiplayer FOF
Marm: I'm a big sweaty gay man.
Me: Marm, please.

[Alf]

So is there a multi-player league already under creation here at FOFC ?

[SunDancer]

Originally posted by Neuqua
I kid you not, here's the transcript of my AIM conversation with Marmel tonight (minus the dirty, kinky stuff)

Me: I'm bored
Marm: something blah blah
Me: I'm more in a football mood now, why can't Jim just release a multiplayer FOF
Marm: I'm a big sweaty gay man.
Me: Marm, please.

Reminds me of Horns.

[MIJB#19]

Time to get me a credit card (or some sort of card to be able to pay on the internet (I heard about prepayed cards like with cellphones though designed for internet.))

[Neuqua]

Btw, I really am excited. I hope the league sizes will be customizable though. I bought FOF4 but have not played it much, but I think adding multiplayer capabilities really gets me back into the FOF flow.

[Masked]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Gunners? :confused:

Those are the guys who line up wide (as if they were wide receivers). You often see two defenders blocking each one. They are the only players from the kicking team allowed to leave the line of scrimmage before the kick.

[Alf]

IMPORTANT NOTE: We are in the final testing process for Front Office Football 2004 and hope to have a demo out for the game by the end of October.

We are still selling The Fourth Edition, at a reduced price. The new game will not be available on CD - only through electronic download.

Fourth Edition customers who purchased the game after July 1 and before the price reduction on October 16 are eligible for a $15 coupon against the price of the new game. All Fourth Edition customers are eligible for a $5 coupon.

Right before we release the new game, we will set up the coupon system.

----------------------

Gotta check now the purchase date...

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by Masked
Those are the guys who line up wide (as if they were wide receivers). You often see two defenders blocking each one. They are the only players from the kicking team allowed to leave the line of scrimmage before the kick.

Thanks. I was wondering if it were something like that...

[Markus Heinsohn]

Good luck Jim! If I ever have time to get into football, I'll definitely check it out!

Cheers,
Markus

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by Alf
The new game will not be available on CD - only through electronic download.

Thanks god for my DSL. I remember downloading FOF2 way back in '99 or so on my old modem. Seems like it took hours for me to get the game...

[Ben E Lou]

Electronic download makes me happy on this one, since Jim tends to release his games at like 2AM most of the time. I won't have to stay up to get in the first mailing batch anymore. I'll be able to just download the sucker when I wake up. :D

[SackAttack]

What I don't understand is why FOF: Multiplayer is going to be available only via electronic download, particularly in light of the ViaTech grievances Jim mentioned (waiting four months to get paid, etc).

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by SackAttack
What I don't understand is why FOF: Multiplayer is going to be available only via electronic download, particularly in light of the ViaTech grievances Jim mentioned (waiting four months to get paid, etc).

I would guess he found an alternate source, or they came to an agreement.

[SackAttack]

But if that's the case, why would he need to switch from whatever simulation he was working on to update FOF4? I'm just confused, I guess.

[JeeberD]

I'm sure he went back to Digital River... ;)

[Neuqua]

Originally posted by SackAttack
But if that's the case, why would he need to switch from whatever simulation he was working on to update FOF4? I'm just confused, I guess.

I don't know if those two were ever connected.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by SackAttack
But if that's the case, why would he need to switch from whatever simulation he was working on to update FOF4? I'm just confused, I guess.

I don't think those two were connected. I thought the game he switched from was a disagreement or problems with a publisher (a company). He was mentioning this problem (the change in policy) as a more recent delay in this announcement, not why he switched games.

That is how I understood it.

[condors]

this news makes me very happy :)

[Ben E Lou]

A few comments on some new features…
Multi-Player League Support. Choose a commissioner to run the games for your league. Your commissioner will simulate the games and process every team's instruction set for each stage during the game. Up to 32 people can compete in each multi-player league.Obviously this is the one that many were hoping/waiting for. Should be a huge sales-increaser, and based on the rest of the list below, will probably even snooker Ol’ SkyDog into an online league! :eek:
Player Holdouts. Both veterans and rookies can hold out for a better contract offer. Watch your underpaid veteran refuse to take the field until he gets the big bonus he's always wanted. Watch your rookies haggle for a few extra dollars under the league's rookie signing system.This sounds like a very nice addition. No more signing that veteran offensive tackle to a three-year deal barely above the veteran minimum, huh?
Extended Post-Draft Free Agency. A new eight-stage free agency period, starting after the amateur draft, ensures that you won't easily grab all the players you need to fill your roster.This sounds like an excellent way to help close an AI loophole and avoid having to use a house rule. I always hated having a rookie bust, but then due to house rules be unable to sign a vet to a one-year deal to step in and start. This should make me feel a lot better about doing that.
Career Statistics. You'll have access to every piece of data generated by every player who played as much as one single down during your entire career.
Player Linking. Whenever a player is listed in the game, you'll be able to access his playing record directly from that list.These two sound utterly delicious for us stats junkies. I’m guessing this sucker will be use some resources. Glad I’ve got 512MB on both machines….
Revised Amateur Draft. Rookies will be tested in a league scouting combine, including the 40-yard dash, an agility drill, a strength test and an intelligence test. Scouts will know a little less about the rookies, so you'll have to learn to read these numbers and separate the workout warriors from the true players.FINALLY!!! This alone could make it worth the purchase price for me.
League Analysis. Draft experts grade each team's performance in the draft and feature the top young players in the game.This is a cool immersion feature I think.
Quarterback Comparison. A new screen features the record of every current starting quarterback and every quarterback with at least 50 starts in the league.Interesting. I’m not sure that this interests me all that much, but could be cool for dynasty reports. (“FA signee Henry Wilkins is a proven winner, coming to us with a .645 winning percentage as a starter.”)
Long Snappers, Holders and Gunners. On special teams, you can designate which players take these important roles.Nice addition of the little things. Incidentally, a kid I know well is/was the holder for Clemson. He had a rough fall. He was a walk-on, and was told this year (his third year on the team, 2nd year of eligibility), that he was going to be given a scholly for this season as the holder/backup WR. A week later, he tears his ACL. No more WR for the year, but they have been playing him at holder with a torn ACL up until last week. When the Clemson team runs into the stadium, there’s a place where they all jump over a significantly large gap in the path. Well, Gene hasn’t been making that jump since the ACL tear, but he decided to go for it this past Saturday while running in to the stadium. He landed on his good leg, which promptly broke in two places. While the rest of the team was playing, he was in surgery. :(
Offensive and Defensive Coordinators. You'll be able to bid on the services of coordinators as well as coaches. Every staff member has his strengths and weaknesses, and some will be suited to different jobs.If the financial system is well-implemented this will be good. Otherwise, it could just end up a place where the human, who has a financial advantage, can hire the best of the best for an on-field advantage.
Game Summary Screen. View the top passer, rusher and receiver for every team in every game ever played in your universe.Yowza!!! :eek: Again, see my 512MB comment.
Game Plan Profiles. Load and save complete game plans, allowing you even tighter control over your team's on-field performance.This one has been a long time coming. I’d love to have about 4 or 5 game plans ready to roll, depending on the opponent. I hated having to go in and change everything each time. Methinks it’ll be some extra work on the front end, but a huge time-saver in the long run.
Customized Screen Display. Maintain complete color control over just about every element of every screen in the game. Keep different color profiles for each team you control.Some of you might like this. Ol’ SkyDog couldn’t care less. Solecismic Yellow and Ocean Blue work just fine for me.
Player file generator and Draft file generator. Construct player files and draft files in your favorite spreadsheet program, export them to comma-delimited text files, then use the generator to create files for use with the game.Another feature that some of you will drool over, but I couldn’t possibly care less about. Give me a fictional universe any day over a fake history. ;)

[3ric]

Player file generator and Draft file generator. Construct player files and draft files in your favorite spreadsheet program, export them to comma-delimited text files, then use the generator to create files for use with the game.

Well, that makes my editor just about obsolete. I couldn't be happier about it.

[JeeberD]

Hmmm...will the old historical draft and roster files still be good or will they need to be created all over again?

[daedalus]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Gunners? :confused:Benny Thompson and Steve Tasker, baby!!!@

[Alf]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Hmmm...will the old historical draft and roster files still be good or will they need to be created all over again?

I guess that with the data already available, the FOF4 files could be "translated" into FOF2004 files.

[Bad-example]

Big thumbs up for the most part!

SO glad it isn't a college game.

Very nice idea to reward FOF4 owners with a coupon discount. Thanks Jim!

Sad to see it is download only.

[JeeberD]

Well, I must get some sleep. I hope this announcement hasn't crashed the board by the time I wake up tomorrow morning... :)

[3ric]

Originally posted by Alf
I guess that with the data already available, the FOF4 files could be "translated" into FOF2004 files.

Very true. From my editor, you can copy and paste the data to Excel in one go. Then you can edit it further, and save it into the format (csv) that Jim's editor can use. Frogman should have a field day with this. :D

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Well, I must get some sleep. I hope this announcement hasn't crashed the board by the time I wake up tomorrow morning... :) Yeah....45 posts and 222 views in less than 90 minutes, starting at 4am. Its gonna get crazy 'round here as people wake up.

[Havok]

Originally posted by Alf
IMPORTANT NOTE: We are in the final testing process for Front Office Football 2004 and hope to have a demo out for the game by the end of October.

We are still selling The Fourth Edition, at a reduced price. The new game will not be available on CD - only through electronic download.

Fourth Edition customers who purchased the game after July 1 and before the price reduction on October 16 are eligible for a $15 coupon against the price of the new game. All Fourth Edition customers are eligible for a $5 coupon.

Right before we release the new game, we will set up the coupon system.

----------------------

Gotta check now the purchase date...


Sweet.... i bought FOF4 on 9/16.... 15 bucks off for me!!!!!!!!! :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Bad-example


Sad to see it is download only.

I used to think the same way, I loved having a tangible product in my hands. Given my current status as a resident of Europe, however, I am very excited by this. It means I wont have to wait until Christmas before I can play.

[daedalus]

I like the list of features. My thoughts matched a lot of what Ben said up there.

The ONLY thing that comes to mind quickly that I would've liked to have seen would have been the ability for the game to continue to progress without me having a job at the moment. I don't know how many of you have tinkered with CM but, even if you were, ahem, between jobs, the game would still continue to run. That added a lot to the immersion factor for me. Hopefully, that makes it into the feature set for '05.

[andy m]

i hope the league size is customisable for multiplayer leagues.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by daedalus
The ONLY thing that comes to mind quickly that I would've liked to have seen would have been the ability for the game to continue to progress without me having a job at the moment. I don't know how many of you have tinkered with CM but, even if you were, ahem, between jobs, the game would still continue to run. That added a lot to the immersion factor for me. Hopefully, that makes it into the feature set for '05. Very good point. More important for me would be the ability to more easily auto-sim a bunch of seasons to start a career with history. 25 seasons would be plenty for football.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by andy m
i hope the league size is customisable for multiplayer leagues.

My guess is it won't be. Could be wrong...

[sterlingice]

I look to see if Breeze is awake and posting in his boxing thread and instead I find over half the people awake staring at one thread. You know, I've never owned an FOF game- I really should check one out at some point.

SI

[Darkiller]

What, that's certainly unexpected !
I never thought we'd have a new FOF this year, and even less : Multiplayer from Jim.

I'm very happy about this news.
Now, what should I do ? TPF or FOF2004 ?

I give the "benefit of the doubt" to FOF obviously but TPF looks really big on shots. I'll get the two demos and will probably make up my mind depending on how I feel about them.

Anyway, great news Jim !

[JAG]

The additions sound very promising. Multiplayer I think will breathe some new life into the series.

[FBPro]

I'm all over this......:D

Credit card ready and waiting.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty wuz here, yo.....

[Fritz]

[url]Game Plan Profiles. Load and save complete game plans, allowing you even tighter control over your team's on-field performance.



best feature EVER!

[Blackadar]

Finally, finally, finally. Sounds great!

Multiplayer, expanded draft options and game plan profiles - those were my top 3 wishes for another FOF. :)

[CraigSca]

Let me chime in like the others...I hope the league size and expansion are customizeable.

For some reason, I like the NFL in the perpetual state of my youth - 6 divisions, 26 teams and a 14 game schedule. :)

[Bee]

Holy Crap!

I thought there was an outside chance he might go with a new FOF version, but those are some MAJOR features he added. And it's out in just a couple weeks!!!

Holy Crap!

[illinifan999]

Still going to be able to export TCY draft classes?

[Taco]

This sounds like the release that will finally convince me to upgrade from FOF2. I've been waiting for multi-player for years. It sounds like a lot of fun. Thanks, Jim!

[Bee]

Hey SkyDog,

Any chance of getting Jim to do a Q/A session in the next week or two? There's quite a few good questions floating around.

[samifan24]

This sounds very promising. I can't wait to check out those new screens very soon! Sounds good, Jim.

[Senator]

Excellente'!

The perfect crime. Made watching the Yanks win another one till the wee hours of the morning almost bearable.

I am going to try both games. I have owned every FOF and I support the small guy trying to make it. Plus, the FOF series is pretty fun, I have always enjoyed it, even with some of its limitations. I think Jim did the smart thing in continuing the evolution of the series.

[Buzzbee]

My first thought:

No F@#$in' way!

After reading the features:

Pretty F@#$in' cool!!

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Bee
Hey SkyDog,

Any chance of getting Jim to do a Q/A session in the next week or two? There's quite a few good questions floating around. Good idea. I'll ask him.

[Northwood_DK]

Any way to get/play this game without downloading? I just don’t have the Internet connection to do that

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
Any way to get/play this game without downloading? I just don’t have the Internet connection to do that

Doesn't look like it. He is not making CD's on this one.

[Subby]

Who said Jim doesn't listen to his customers? :)

[Bee]

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
Any way to get/play this game without downloading? I just don’t have the Internet connection to do that

Depending on how it's set up, you might be able to get someone else to download the install file for you and burn it on a CD. Then the only thing you'd need to do would be to install and download the license with your purchase information.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Bee
Hey SkyDog,

Any chance of getting Jim to do a Q/A session in the next week or two? There's quite a few good questions floating around. There is going to be a beta diary.

[Bee]

Originally posted by SkyDog
There is going to be a beta diary.

excellent!

[pleming @ home]

Count me in for an online league... I'm a TCY guy, but I was planning on buying FOF4, but now this? Sweet.

[Senator]

Skydog can join our multiplayer historical league now!

C'mon!!! Why are you afraid of the past? Got something to hide, perhaps? join us. join us. join us.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally posted by Bee
Depending on how it's set up, you might be able to get someone else to download the install file for you and burn it on a CD. Then the only thing you'd need to do would be to install and download the license with your purchase information.

If that’s possible you just made my weekend a happy one. I hope Joe can confirm (or deny :mad: )

[Ksyrup]

The Cubs and Red Sox each come within 5 outs of the World Series, and then Jim announces a multiplayer football game, all within the span of about 72 hours. Luckily for us, the first two didn't actually happen, since it's likely the earth wouldn't have existed by the time FOF2004 is supposed to be released! The funny thing is, after the game last night, I couldn't get to sleep until after 2:30 for some reason. I guess I knew something was about to happen...

Since I've got limited time to invest in games these days, I think my initial decision is going to be to wait on TPF and get FOF2004 when it is released. Nothing against the TPF guys, because I'm sure I'll end up buying it at some point, but FOF2004 should be further along in terms of ironing out the bugs, and I'd rather invest my limited time in a product I'm both familiar with and that is a sequel, as opposed to a first generation product.

It's not a money thing, but I just don't have the time to try to immerse myself in two similar games at the same time. I'll try FOF, and if I find myself not enjoying it, I'll get the other. If FOF sparks my interest, it may be a while before I get TPF. Either way, they'll both get my money at some point.

[Bee]

Just a couple things I noted reading the information from Jim.

Up to 32 people can compete in each multi-player league.

Sounds like smaller leagues will be possible, but expansion might be out still.

Both veterans and rookies can hold out for a better contract offer.

Rookie contract negotiations are back in then. That's good.

You'll be able to bid on the services of coordinators as well as coaches.
I read this as coordinators and "head" coaches, not "position" coaches. I hope I'm wrong though. :D

[CraigSca]

Originally posted by Bee
Just a couple things I noted reading the information from Jim.

Sounds like smaller leagues will be possible, but expansion might be out still.



I was thinking this meant there would be 32 teams, but any number of those can be played by RL players, while the rest will be computer controlled. I'm hoping for leagues of less than 32 teams, but considering the track record, I'm not counting on it.

[JAG]

One thing I was just thinking of...could you imagine a draft for 32 people with 7 rounds? That might be tough to get done in a timely fashion.

[Subby]

Originally posted by JAG
One thing I was just thinking of...could you imagine a draft for 32 people with 7 rounds? That might be tough to get done in a timely fashion. In FOBL we do 5 rounds for 36 teams. Teams are allowed to select ahead of draft time on our message board and then we do through the 3rd round live in chat in one evening. The final two rounds are done several nights later via list.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "in a timely fashion" is, but if you give your leage a few real-life weeks for each off-season (free agency, draft, etc.) then you'll be in good shape.

[Bee]

Originally posted by CraigSca
I was thinking this meant there would be 32 teams, but any number of those can be played by RL players, while the rest will be computer controlled. I'm hoping for leagues of less than 32 teams, but considering the track record, I'm not counting on it.

That's possible too. Guess we'll have to wait and see if there is smaller league structures. I think we can throw the track record out though, Jim's including many things that a lot of us never thought would ever be in his games.

[Ksyrup]

I highly doubt that league sizes will be anything but 32, just because I think that would be something he would want to tout on the website as a new feature, and I don't see it. But, he might be holding back a few "goodies," so who knows.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally posted by Bee
That's possible too. Guess we'll have to wait and see if there is smaller league structures. I think we can throw the track record out though, Jim's including many things that a lot of us never thought would ever be in his games.

I also hope this will be the game where Joe let us put logos, helmets, players-faces ect. in the game.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Since I've got limited time to invest in games these days, I think my initial decision is going to be to wait on TPF and get FOF2004 when it is released. Nothing against the TPF guys, because I'm sure I'll end up buying it at some point, but FOF2004 should be further along in terms of ironing out the bugs, and I'd rather invest my limited time in a product I'm both familiar with and that is a sequel, as opposed to a first generation product.

It's not a money thing, but I just don't have the time to try to immerse myself in two similar games at the same time. I'll try FOF, and if I find myself not enjoying it, I'll get the other. If FOF sparks my interest, it may be a while before I get TPF. Either way, they'll both get my money at some point.

You've pretty much summarize my thoughts here, Ksyrup. I was all psyched up about TPF, but now that FOF development may well put them on my list for Christmas gift instead of birthday gifts :)

FM

[Bee]

I still plan on getting TPF when it's released. I think my computer has enough room for 2 football sims. :D

I'll probably play both of them and whichever is best will probably get most of my attention.

Edit: Although right now I'm looking forward to FOF2004 much more than TPF (sorry .400 studio guys). :D

[PilotMan]

CM4 for my birthday, and now....

Merry Christmas to me,

Merry Christmas to me.

I would love to do an online league, I hope I can find the time.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally posted by Bee
I still plan on getting TPF when it's released. I think my computer has enough room for 2 football sims. :D

I'll probably play both of them and whichever is best will probably get most of my attention.

Agree, but this is a slap in the face for .400. We have been waiting for a new football text-sim for years, and now we will get two in no time. A lot of people will buy both, but I think a big part of .400s market has just gone missing.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by SkyDog
There is going to be a beta diary.

So, how long have you known about this, and been holding out on us?

[Bee]

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
Agree, but this is a slap in the face for .400. We have been waiting for a new football text-sim for years, and now we will get two in no time. A lot of people will buy both, but I think a big part of .400s market has just gone missing.

It will be interesting to see how this affects the sales of TPF. I think most of us just assumed that even if Jim released another FOF it wouldn't have multiplayer so the "target" audience for the two games would be slightly different. Now it's a direct competitor...

Hopefully, both titles have lots of success. Competition is good for consumers in most cases. :D

[cuervo72]

Wow, and to think I missed this all morning just reading other threads!

I wonder if there is any way to import game files from FOF4 to FOF2004? I like the other additions....time to read more on this!

Oh, and Jeeber - I know I was in on suggesting FOFC names get into the game, I wasn't aware Jim saw that or had any comment on it (I might have missed it).

edit: might need to upgrade from my 266MHz machine soon!

[CamEdwards]

First the Red Sox lose and now I learn it won't be TCY2.

This sucks. :(

I'll probably buy the new game, but honestly, every time I've tried to get into FOF4 something's stopped me. I think this will be the first Solecismic game that I won't immediately buy. I'll have to hear some reviews first (and meanwhile, I'll keep playing TCY and living my pathetic existence as a Red Sox fan).

[Honolulu Blue]

Heh. Small wonder Jim was asking about our reaction to RDEs and LTs. I wonder if they're in or out of the new game.

I see the reaction to the new game is just about unanimously positive. I don't feel the same way. I was looking forward to Jim putting his talents toward a new game, or even TCY, and not more of the same ol' thing.

None of the new features excite me very much. Some are overdue, and the rest are "cotton candy". There are a few items that will make the game less tedious, but I see nothing here that would make it more difficult. Multiplayer might work if I can find time and a suitable league. I'll have to hear from others how it works.

Sorry for not jumping aboard the FOF '04 Love Train at this time. Perhaps I will feel differently after I play the demo, hear some glowing reviews, and see a patch or two. For now, it's behind ITP and OOTP6 on the must-acquire list and about even with TPF. I'm sure I'll eventually get it but it's going to be awhile.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
So, how long have you known about this, and been holding out on us? I found out last night. I was as stunned as all of you. I'm not a beta tester for this one. Apparently the beta has been going on for a couple of weeks or so already.

[sachmo71]

mmmmmmmmmm

[Subby]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue
Sorry for not jumping aboard the FOF '04 Love Train at this time. Perhaps I will feel differently after I play the demo, hear some glowing reviews, and see a patch or two. For now, it's behind ITP and OOTP6 on the must-acquire list and about even with TPF. I'm sure I'll eventually get it but it's going to be awhile. I just wanted to point out that you accidently typed that you had ITP on your must-acquire list.

I'm sure it was an honest mistake ;)

[Alf]

Subby is always around at FOFxxx releases dates !

[Samdari]

Its funny H B, I had not expected to be getting excited about this as FOF4 really did not excite me, but I am giddy about it.

I agree with SkyDog that the draft info is the most important. I am a "build through the draft" guy and the drafts in previous football sims (mostly FOFs) have not yet found the sweet spot between "complete guesswork" and "complete knowledge." It looks like Jim is making strides toward that sweet spot, where there is some player skill in drafting, and yet not have it be something automatic once you figure out the 'keys'.

I am also glad he included multiplayer. I have found most multiplayer experiences less than satisfactory (although I hope to be included in a FOFC league), but it seems to be the market for sports sims, and I would have hated to see Jim keep shooting himself in the foot for sake of stubborness.

SkyDog - I read between the lines too much I guess, I had not seen an announcement about a Beta diary so I assumed your post meant it was your diary. Oops.

Seeing Jim implement multiplayer, as well as complete saveable game plans should encourage the TCY crowd somewhat, despite this disappointmemt. Imagine TCY2, released fall 2004 (right Jim, fall 2004?!) with those features. I also think it is obvious that that game demands user configurable conferences. Finally, we are at the point where coding that will take less effort than figuring out the actual conference alignments.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
SkyDog - I read between the lines too much I guess, I had not seen an announcement about a Beta diary so I assumed your post meant it was your diary. Oops.I can how you would have assumed that. Sorry to confuse you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue
Heh. Small wonder Jim was asking about our reaction to RDEs and LTs. I wonder if they're in or out of the new game.

I see the reaction to the new game is just about unanimously positive. I don't feel the same way. I was looking forward to Jim putting his talents toward a new game, or even TCY, and not more of the same ol' thing.

None of the new features excite me very much. Some are overdue, and the rest are "cotton candy". There are a few items that will make the game less tedious, but I see nothing here that would make it more difficult. Multiplayer might work if I can find time and a suitable league. I'll have to hear from others how it works.

Sorry for not jumping aboard the FOF '04 Love Train at this time. Perhaps I will feel differently after I play the demo, hear some glowing reviews, and see a patch or two. For now, it's behind ITP and OOTP6 on the must-acquire list and about even with TPF. I'm sure I'll eventually get it but it's going to be awhile.

That's ok, HB. I will jump aboard the FOF '04 Love Train. That should be enough HB for the group for the initial stages. If it's a good game, I'll force the train to stop so you can jump on and join the party. See, having a twin, even if "evil", has its advantages.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Samdari

I am also glad he included multiplayer. I have found most multiplayer experiences less than satisfactory (although I hope to be included in a FOFC league), but it seems to be the market for sports sims, and I would have hated to see Jim keep shooting himself in the foot for sake of stubborness.


I'm usually not for multiplayer, but am glad to see this as well. I can see it now though, fellow owners yelling at the guy who is always late getting his transactions in for the week....

[3ric]

Originally posted by Senator
Skydog can join our multiplayer historical league now!

C'mon!!! Why are you afraid of the past? Got something to hide, perhaps? join us. join us. join us.

I'll take that as an invitation - can I have first dibs for the Packers? :D

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cuervo72
I'm usually not for multiplayer, but am glad to see this as well. I can see it now though, fellow owners yelling at the guy who is always late getting his transactions in for the week....

LOL, we may need a completely new forum for the PING: Your team file is late threads.

[Dutch]

FOF2004...

Woot! Woot! Raise the roof!!!! :D

[vulcan]

I am very imprerssed with this feature

"Career Statistics. You'll have access to every piece of data generated by every player who played as much as one single down during your entire career."

I guess this also means retired players. (?) This was something Jim said he wasn't sure if he would be able to do ( I know this because I had emailed him lst year about it).

However, two questions still remain to be answered;

1)- Will TCY be compatable with FOF2004?

2)-Will this version of FOF2004 be compatable with future versions of FOF (ie: importing careers,stats,players,history,ect------think of OOTP)

#2 is a biggie for me.

Another thing that might not make me get this game is that I hope that FOF just doesn't make the players sem as numbers. I like the TPF approach because some graphical content was done which in return gives the sim a better interface. Thus allowing the game to seem like real players. IMO of course.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
LOL, we may need a completely new forum for the PING: Your team file is late threads. Actually you may be right. I wouldn't be shocked if I end up adding a forum specifically for multiplayer leagues.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Actually you may be right. I wouldn't be shocked if I end up adding a forum specifically for multiplayer leagues.

I had just thought the same thing....

[The Afoci]

I was hoping for TCY2, but this looks great. This will be my second FOF after FOF 2 I think. The one that had expansion teams and whatnot.

[Blade]

Wow! Go away for a night, and something huge like this happens! I am pretty excited about it, since I did not get FOF4...

Now I will just be waiting on pins and needles until it is actually released!

[vulcan]

Originally posted by FBPro
I'm all over this......:D

Credit card ready and waiting.

Sounds to me that you may not be to happy with TPF since you are a beta tester. ;)

[HornedFrog Purple]

Excellent... this means I can trade away my whole team for Kenneth Davis. Some sucker will take that trade.

[Celeval]

So the big question...

...if the Red Sox had won last night, would we not have gotten this announcement until after the World Series? :-D

I'm all over this.

Kevin

[petrochile]

Originally posted by Alf
Subby is always around at FOFxxx releases dates !

You will always find Subby around anything with xxx

:D

[Abe Sargent]

Releasing at almost the exact time as TPF?

Is this a good business move?

-Anxiety

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Anxiety
Releasing at almost the exact time as TPF?

Is this a good business move?

-Anxiety

Well, I just went from potentially buying TPF "pretty quickly" to almost certainly buying FOF2004 the second it's released.

I think a lot of people would put their into a sure thing before buying TPF. I hope both games are great, and see myself owning both within a few months.

[markprior22]

If I were going to purchase only 1 game (between TPF or FOF2004), I think it would be wise to wait until both are released and make a comparison or get some early feedback. I LOVE what I am seeing of TPF and, assuming the statisical stuff is realistic and the record keeping is deep, TPF is definitely going to get my $$. I have purchased the last couple of FOF's but, for some reason, the interface just doesn't "grab" me and I can't really get into it. The new FOF may be an entirely new experience that will pull me in but I can't help the feeling that I kind of know what's coming in FOF2004 but TPF will be totally new and a much more immersive experience. Just my .02

[Bee]

I'm guessing if it hurts anyone, it will hurt TPF. FOF is established and people know what they are getting with FOF. I think anyone who buys TPF and doesn't buy FOF would probably have not bought FOF anyway, so I don't see Jim losing many sales at all. There's quite a few people that will most likely wait on TPF now and go with a more established game like FOF, so they could be hurt with a weaker than expected release.

[Ksyrup]

I thinnk this is an excellent marketing move, assuming that at least a portion of your target audience has limited funds and/or time to invest in 2 products. If X number of people bought TPF on October 31, and Jim announced FOF2004 on November 15, I'm sure there would be X% of those people who bought TPF who would have allocated their time and/or money to FOF instead of TPF, at least initially.

[bigdawg2003]

It's hard enough to get any work done in college already Jim, and now you pull this on me.

[vulcan]

I would love to see a screen shot of FOF2004 interface........can we get this Jim?

[Bee]

Originally posted by Solecismic
I hope to have a few screen shots ready in the next few days.

[cthomer5000]

This announcement will almost certainly mean I never have one serious career with FOF4. Just as I was giving that game a serious chance, I'll put it back on the shelf.

[vulcan]

Originally posted by Bee


Thanks Bee, I didn't see that. :)

[CubsFan915]

Originally posted by Subby
Who said Jim doesn't listen to his customers? :)

Yes yes.

Jim hit on the one thing that would make me buy another FOF version. Kudos!

[vulcan]

SkyDog, if at all possible, could you get Jim to maybe check into these questions:

"However, two questions still remain to be answered;

1)- Will TCY be compatable with FOF2004?

2)-Will this version of FOF2004 be compatable with future versions of FOF (ie: importing careers,stats,players,history,ect------think of OOTP)

#2 is a biggie for me."

I posted these before but I don't want them to get lost in the mix around here.

EDIT: Spelling

[Bee]

I don't expect the interface for FOF2004 to be nearly as "pretty" as TPF. I think Joe does the interface screens for .400 Studios and he does a wonderful job IMO of making them very attractive while maintaining the functionality of the interface. Of course, for me, what's "under the hood" is what's really important and we won't be able to compare the two games until they're both out. I'm really looking forward to doing just that in a couple weeks. :D

[sturmie]

has it been determined if the dreaded eLicensing *shudder* is involved? or will there be a CD version available?


sturmie

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally posted by vulcan

1)- Will TCY be compatable with FOF2004?


This will have to be an option or I probably will not buy it...

[Bee]

Originally posted by sturmie
has it been determined if the dreaded eLicensing *shudder* is involved? or will there be a CD version available?


sturmie

I think it's download only.

[vulcan]

Originally posted by Bee
I don't expect the interface for FOF2004 to be nearly as "pretty" as TPF. I think Joe does the interface screens for .400 Studios and he does a wonderful job IMO of making them very attractive while maintaining the functionality of the interface. Of course, for me, what's "under the hood" is what's really important and we won't be able to compare the two games until they're both out. I'm really looking forward to doing just that in a couple weeks. :D

Your right, Joe does do the graphics in TPF. Its just FOF4 seemed so dull and bland. I AM excited about FOF2004 but I cannot say that I am just excited about FOF2004 as I am about TPF. TPF seesm like it will be very strong. However, something that get s me is this post;

Posted by FBpro,
"I'm all over this......

Credit card ready and waiting."

I know that peolple can get excited and buy any game they want but FBpro is a beta tester for TPF. Does this imply that TPF isn't going to be so good? .......... Maybe I am reading into this too much, would do you think Bee?

[Ksyrup]

I think you're reading too much into it. I think he's a fan of football text sims. Two is better than one.

[vulcan]

I bet your right Ksyrup. Its jsut that I have been waiting for so long (well, since FBpro98) for a "nearly" complte football sim.

[vulcan]

~dola

Man.....my spelling sucks today.....

[Bee]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I think you're reading too much into it. I think he's a fan of football text sims. Two is better than one.

Yep. I agree.

Each game will most likely have it's advantages and disadvantages, but at this point I think most people are just happy to see that two potentially great football text sims are coming out. It's a good time to be a football text sim fan. :)

[vulcan]

Originally posted by Bee
It's a good time to be a football text sim fan. :)


OH sooo true!

[Thomkal]

That collective *THUD* you heard is from people fainting all over the world when they read that a Jim Gindin game would have multiplayer in it. :) I've picked myself up from the floor now, but while its exciting to see a FOF game with multiplayer in it, I wasn't a big fan of FOF 4, so I'll need to see the demo/whole game before I get too excited.

[rlfreeze]

If we are putting dibs on teams, I would like to have the Chargers. I know I can run the team better the Marty S. Perhaps we should start a thread for a multiplayer league and reservations for that league.

[sturmie]

Originally posted by Bee
I think it's download only. wow. this is a major disappointment. considering all of Jim's (i don't count the EASPORTS years) titles have had a CD option in the past, i was hoping that he wouldn't give way to the latest "trend" in game distribution.

oh well...guess i'll wait. multiplayer isn't that important to me that i can get over the feeling of "renting" a game instead of buying it.

sturmie

[vulcan]

Originally posted by sturmie
wow. this is a major disappointment. considering all of Jim's (i don't count the EASPORTS years) titles have had a CD option in the past, i was hoping that he wouldn't give way to the latest "trend" in game distribution.

oh well...guess i'll wait. multiplayer isn't that important to me that i can get over the feeling of "renting" a game instead of buying it.

sturmie

Just burn the game onto a disk. Thats what I did with TCY.

[Fido]

Has anyone here actually seen the game? I would be surious to see screenshots is any are available. I'm quite interrested to see how Jim presented some of this information.

[detroit_fan]

Time for the "detroit_fan hunger strike"

Jim,

I vow not to eat until you release the game!

d_f

[Bee]

Originally posted by detroit_fan
Time for the "detroit_fan hunger strike"

Jim,

I vow not to eat until you release the game!

d_f

Will we get a countdown thread again? :D

[Bee]

Originally posted by Fido
Has anyone here actually seen the game? I would be surious to see screenshots is any are available. I'm quite interrested to see how Jim presented some of this information.

screenshots will be out in a couple days.

[sturmie]

Originally posted by vulcan
Just burn the game onto a disk. Thats what I did with TCY. well, if u did that then all u did was burn the install file to a CD...u still have to "eLicense" it when u install it and if the server is down, u then have to wait to play ur game.

sturmie

[GoldenEagle]

Anyone notice the interest in the site? It was 10:15 (CST) in the morining an 88 people were on, most viewing this thread or a related one.

[Bee]

Originally posted by GoldenEagle
Anyone notice the interest in the site? It was 10:15 (CST) in the morining an 88 people were on, most viewing this thread or a related one.

I think that's just people looking to see if Quiksand posted a puzzle this morning. :D

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Bee
I think that's just people looking to see if Quiksand posted a puzzle this morning. :D

This certainly won't be a run-of-the-mill Friday, that's for sure.

[Bee]

Originally posted by cuervo72
This certainly won't be a run-of-the-mill Friday, that's for sure.

and I'm going away for the weekend in about 10 minutes. :( I'll miss all the interesting conjecture that's bound to flood the forum.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Bee
and I'm going away for the weekend in about 10 minutes. :( I'll miss all the interesting conjecture that's bound to flood the forum.

And you better save a good 1-2 hours block on Monday to catch up :D

FM

[Lazy Eye]

It will be mostly fluff, Bee.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by EagleFan
Dam, where's my kleenex?

Dunno... but I just finished with mine, if you wanna use it.

[Gallifrey]

Ahh, good news indeed!

I told my wife yesterday that I would be buying a game very soon, with the feeling that Jim would produce another football sim. All the baseball talk had me reaching for the bottle!

The only bummer is my cool career in FOF4 will suffer due to this development, but hey, now there is multi-player and the fun of playing FOF with humans!

Lets get the league talk going...endless hours of fun.

[Daimyo]

This is great news. I was debating rather to give in and order FOF4 or take my chances with TPF, so this is awesome news. This will be my first "buy on the release date" game since maybe fof2k1?

[Gallifrey]

Yeah, "buy on the release date" will be where I am at too Daimyo.

Being a software guy I hate to buy software. Mostly games because the AI is always so bad. But FOF4 I really like, and kicking it up a notch is just what the doctor ordered.
Plus there is much activity on these boards, and I think some strong leagues will come out of it.

[Subby]

Originally posted by sturmie
well, if u did that then all u did was burn the install file to a CD...u still have to "eLicense" it when u install it and if the server is down, u then have to wait to play ur game.

sturmie Jim is a one-man shop. CD manafacturing probably costs him ~3 bucks per CD. Then he has to spend time doing order fulfillment for hundreds, if not thousands, of games. E-licensing saves his small company on the bottom line in terms of both soft and hard costs. And it provides instant gratification to his customers.

So stop being such a selfish bastard and get with the program, ya' stupid orangutan!!!

[FBPro]

Originally posted by vulcan
Sounds to me that you may not be to happy with TPF since you are a beta tester. ;)

I replied via PM but will publicly as well. I have been a customer and supporter of Jim Gindin and his software from day 1 and will continue to be. I will purchase almost any sports sim that is well made, well supported and has features that I like. IMO both of these games fall in line with all of the above. I've got plenty of time for 2 football sims.

:)

[FBPro]

Originally posted by vulcan
Your right, Joe does do the graphics in TPF. Its just FOF4 seemed so dull and bland. I AM excited about FOF2004 but I cannot say that I am just excited about FOF2004 as I am about TPF. TPF seesm like it will be very strong. However, something that get s me is this post;

Posted by FBpro,
"I'm all over this......

Credit card ready and waiting."

I know that peolple can get excited and buy any game they want but FBpro is a beta tester for TPF. Does this imply that TPF isn't going to be so good? .......... Maybe I am reading into this too much, would do you think Bee?

You are reading WAY TOO MUCH into this......answered this already.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by FBPro
You are reading WAY TOO MUCH into this......answered this already.

Hmmm, if we re-organize his capitalized letters is spells:

YOU MATH COW

I think he's saying something about the sim-engine of TPF, help me out guys.

[FBPro]

Can't get anything encrypted past you guys..

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by sturmie
well, if u did that then all u did was burn the install file to a CD...u still have to "eLicense" it when u install it and if the server is down, u then have to wait to play ur game.

sturmie

Anything wrong with the "y" key on your keyboard?

FM

[3ric]

Wow, a new record for the board today - 108 people visiting.

[azjoe_02]

Originally posted by Bad-example
Big thumbs up for the most part!

SO glad it isn't a college game.

Very nice idea to reward FOF4 owners with a coupon discount. Thanks Jim!

Sad to see it is download only.


Bad-example, you hit the nail on the head!!!

[Noble_Platypus]

I am kinda pissed that alot of the stuff we suggested as being neded in a patch is not implemented, but now I have to buy a new game. I am rather gunshy about getting another FOF game. New features are great, but if the engine still has flaws such as drafting a DLT #1 overall and then benching him because you play a 3-4 then I dont think its worth it. I do admit that the new features sound tremendous, but its going to come down to feedback from everyone and reviews to see whether I get 2004 or TPF. Remember, 2002 was a huge step backward from 2001

[MizzouRah]

Wow, thought I was taking a normal lunch break, then about 160 posts about a new FOF game? YES!

A Q/A would be awesome, I would like to know if the firings after being rehired have been toned down - or will there always be some team that wants to hire you so your universe isn't shot once you are fired and nobody wants you.


Todd

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Wow, thought I was taking a normal lunch break, then about 160 posts about a new FOF game? YES!

A Q/A would be awesome, I would like to know if the firings after being rehired have been toned down - or will there always be some team that wants to hire you so your universe isn't shot once you are fired and nobody wants you.


Todd

That would also fall under the request of being able to let the game simulate even though you may not be in charge of a team. How about you get fired, spend a season at home, after a season, a team is bound to be hopeless for a new GM, right?

FM

[Kodos]

Sign me up for this one!

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by FrogMan
That would also fall under the request of being able to let the game simulate even though you may not be in charge of a team. How about you get fired, spend a season at home, after a season, a team is bound to be hopeless for a new GM, right?

FM


Exactly! A feature like this would put the game over the top for me. Play a few seasons, win the Super Bowl, retire (take a year or two off while your universe is still progressing), then come back to a team who hasn't seen a playoff game in years!!

Great question for Jim!


Todd

[Glengoyne]

Whoot I am a recent buyer. All my time on the fence landed me $15 toward the purchase. What is the regular price of this version? I am too lazy to look for myself, and one of you know.

It is a shame, but with the budget the wife has me on, price is actually a factor when buying software. For me That coupon is the biggest thing FoF2004 has over TPF right now. A close second is that FoF actually has a track record.

With either game, I am hoping for a more immersive experience. The draft feedback should help a lot there. I think the game summaries will help as well. It is embarrasing, but most of the time, I know absolutely nothing about the players on the other teams. The only time I look into them is when they are on the FA market. In my FoF universe this kind of thing could happen ..."Hmm lets see there is this Drew Bledsoe guy available, and also Steve Buerlein. I wonder which one I should go after". I hope either of these games suck me in more than FoF does now.

-The draft improvements look very cool as well.
-I like the extra free agency period, that should improve difficulty.
-The ability to create, save, and load game plan stuff is THE SINGLE best thing I have read though.

-I hope we will be able to look back at drafts historically, just to see how my picks and others, maybe potential scouts, have panned out.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Exactly! A feature like this would put the game over the top for me. Play a few seasons, win the Super Bowl, retire (take a year or two off while your universe is still progressing), then come back to a team who hasn't seen a playoff game in years!!

Great question for Jim!


Todd

Some people have already mentionned that possibilty, especially for simming past seasons, without you being involved, then you could take over a team and there would already be some sort of stats in your universe. I didn't really think about it all by myself ;)

FM

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by FrogMan
Some people have already mentionned that possibilty, especially for simming past seasons, without you being involved, then you could take over a team and there would already be some sort of stats in your universe. I didn't really think about it all by myself ;)

FM


I'm just glad it's out there for the asking. I just don't want my universe dying because I'm fired from some team.

Todd

[Ksyrup]

This would be great. Just like in OOTP, where I often do this to build up some history for my league before getting pesonally involved.

[sturmie]

Originally posted by Subby
Jim is a one-man shop. CD manafacturing probably costs him ~3 bucks per CD. Then he has to spend time doing order fulfillment for hundreds, if not thousands, of games. E-licensing saves his small company on the bottom line in terms of both soft and hard costs. And it provides instant gratification to his customers.yeah, yeah...i know the "advantages" of eLicensing, but i (along w/ many FOF members) have been burned in the past--read FOF2. jim did mention recently that he was "undecided" as to whether he was going to release it as a d/l or a CD b/c Via Tech business model has changed somewhat.

so, i'm just putting my 2 pennies in (again) about getting it on CD :), which btw, i'd more than happy to pay an extra ~$5-$10 for.


Originally posted by FrogMan
Anything wrong with the "y" key on your keyboard?i have one...i think. it's just easier to type "u" rather than "you". i've saved countless hours not typing out the whole word...hehe.

sturmie

[JeeberD]

Not to mention all the time saved not having to press that pesky "Shift" key... ;)

[cuervo72]

I think it would take more time for me to conciously leave letters out of words than to just spell and type them correctly. But then I consider myself to be a decent typist (though for some reason I am having a boat-load of trouble on this post....must be thinking too hard)

[sturmie]

@JeeberD

don't knock it 'til ya try it :D.

@cuervo72

u get used to it...it comes from the 'ol mIRC days, when if i didn't get my point out fast enough, the channel was on another topic :).


sturmie

[cuervo72]

I'm afraid I wouldn't switch it on and off correctly, and I'd start doing it in business e-mail and such. :)

[JeeberD]

Actually, I don't use capitalization on IM, so can understand the appeal. Just have to use it here for some reason though... :)

[cuervo72]

I almost forgot! This means I can buy TCY with no worries now :D

[sturmie]

@cuervo72

luckily Outlook auto-capitalizes (beginnings of sentences) and auto-corrects spelling or they'd think i was a moron at the office...hehe.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by cuervo72
I think it would take more time for me to conciously leave letters out of words than to just spell and type them correctly. But then I consider myself to be a decent typist (though for some reason I am having a boat-load of trouble on this post....must be thinking too hard)

Same thing for me, it would be way too difficult for me to think about writing it that way... Sometimes tough enough to think in English, I'm not gonna bother myself with writing words in a different manner (remember, my day offline is spent 99% of the time in French)

FM

[Tex Schramm]

I think Noble Platypus is right. Before fof4 was released it was supposed to be this "complete redesign" of the engine, a term that is used much too loosely in the world of software design. What we got was just TCY slightly modified to be an NFL game. Heck, even some of the screens in the new interface still said "the college years" on them. And it took three patches for the game to even become something close to functional.

Why do you think Jim is offering fof4 owners a discount on the upcoming game? We should be concerned about this rather than excited about it. This game is probably an "FOF4 multiplayer epxansion pack" at best. On the new features list, I don't see anything about an interface overhaul, or any tweaks to the in-game engine.

I'll wait on this one until next March when it's patched enough to be playable.

[markprior22]

Originally posted by sturmie
yeah, yeah...i know the "advantages" of eLicensing, but i (along w/ many FOF members) have been burned in the past--read FOF2. jim did mention recently that he was "undecided" as to whether he was going to release it as a d/l or a CD b/c Via Tech business model has changed somewhat.

so, i'm just putting my 2 pennies in (again) about getting it on CD :), which btw, i'd more than happy to pay an extra ~$5-$10 for.


i have one...i think. it's just easier to type "u" rather than "you". i've saved countless hours not typing out the whole word...hehe.

sturmie

Sturmie...I can't help but think that this decision has alot to do with trying to get his game out before TPF. The CD copying process can't even begin until beta testing is complete. From previous releases, it seems like it takes a long time for all the CD's to get made and sent back to Jim. Then he and his wife stay up for 96 hrs straight getting em mailed out. Personally, I think this was mostly a time saver...if it also saves him some money...that's even better for him.

[TargetPractice6]

I would imagine it has something to do with not even shipping all of the FOF4 CDs.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by markprior22
Sturmie...I can't help but think that this decision has alot to do with trying to get his game out before TPF.

All the other reasons are probably spot-on, but that one probably didn't even enter his thinking. It has been a year since last release, so he is probably trying to speed up release, but I put dollar to doughnuts that he wasn't even thinking about TPF when set the intial plan for this game and its release date.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by sturmie
oh well...guess i'll wait. multiplayer isn't that important to me that i can get over the feeling of "renting" a game instead of buying it.

Technically, you are "renting" the game no matter how you purchase it. The only difference is that one way it is on a CD and the other it is downloaded sans CD.

[sturmie]

@BoneGavel

yes, i understand that--it's a point that's brought up continuously when debating my "anti-eLicensing" stance. only problem w/ that theory is, if EASPORTS goes out of business or decides it wants its game back, it doesn't come to my house and rip my copy of NCAA 2004 outta my hands. if those eLicensing servers shut down, essentially, that's what Via Tech/Jim would be doing.

yes, if that happens, we would like to say that there will be a non-eLiscensing patch released and jim wouldn't leave us hanging (which i don't think he would--he takes care of us), but u never know...how many of us have a non-eLicense, legal fix for FOF2? not i.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by sturmie
[B or they'd think i was a moron at the office...hehe. [/B]
Hmm, afraid I've got a bit of bad news for you sturmie....

[sturmie]

Originally posted by Samdari
Hmm, afraid I've got a bit of bad news for you sturmie.... scott? steve? BG? is that either of u? i knew u never did any work at the office---much like myself :).

[sabotai]

Recently, I was thinking if stopping work on my football sim to move on to other projects was he right decision....TPF...FOF2004...yeah, I think I made the right decision. :)

I'm stoked about this game. I will wait a day or two before...oh, who am I kidding? Once that puppy goes up, it's coming on my hard drive and I'm playing it!

[mckerney]

Originally posted by sabotai
I've stroked about this game. I will wait a day or two before...oh, who am I kidding? Once that puppy goes up, it's coming on my...

Have you been hanging out with The Afoci? :eek: :eek: :eek:

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by mckerney
Have you been hanging out with The Afoci? :eek: :eek: :eek:

I am spreading. Five dollars please.

[Raven Hawk]

All I can say is:

Thank you, Jim.

You have my money. :) I've been dying to get a multi-player football game like this. This is even better than the idea of FO: Horseracing. ;) I'm gonna go do the happy dance now.

[Anthony]

Jim:

we've had our rough moments together for a while now, i became so jaded on Solecismic that ididn't purchase FOF4. i felt you didn't make enough of a commitment to giving the people what they want. however, with the announcement concerning FOF 2004 and all the features you've added in, i'm going on record as i will be buying this game. i haven't even read all the feautres yet that SkyDog posted from your site, i stopped around the combine part. the multi-player caught my eye as i'm sure it caught everyone else's. i just gotta say good job, you finally got the point. it's nice to be back on the Solecismic band-wagon.

now that it's official, can you say what your original game was gonna be?

[Vince]

Great news...really looking forward to possibly locking horns with some of you guys in an online football game.

I'm with HA on this one, still really curious as to what the first game was going to be. However, I'm fairly certain that if he has put in some work on it, Jim will still release it in the future, so we're going to have to wait to hear what he was working on for a while now.

[crushem]

I just hope the interface isn't "dead" looing like FOF4. .... :0

[Killebrew]

This is awesome, not to be a fanboy or anything but hooray for Jim on adding the multiplayer capability.

[crushem]

Multiplayer will ONLY be good if it is done correctly. This will have to be taken as a "wait & see" approach for me. I say this because for a guy who really didn't like the idea a few years ago is now implementing the idea. I guess we shall see however.

[sianews]

I didn't see any mention of FOF20044 including an option to not have escalating salaries. Frankly, the outrageous inflation scale kills the games enjoyment for me after 2010 :(.

[PineTar]

Jim had me at <strike>hello</strike> 'multiplayer'. Welcome back to my hard drive Solecismic!!

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by Bee
I'm guessing if it hurts anyone, it will hurt TPF. FOF is established and people know what they are getting with FOF. I think anyone who buys TPF and doesn't buy FOF would probably have not bought FOF anyway, so I don't see Jim losing many sales at all. There's quite a few people that will most likely wait on TPF now and go with a more established game like FOF, so they could be hurt with a weaker than expected release.

Bee, I kinda disagree. TPF will have its huge(?) OOTPdev/400 fanbase to draw from. I perceive ours is fairly small yet vocal and probably more hardcore (for most of us anyway).

[Buccaneer]

dola

Very bad month to have quit playing games altogether.

Gothic II will finally be arriving at the end of the month.
I just heard that Railroad Tycoon III will be here this month.
TPF was supposed to have been released but thankfully delayed.
And now FOF2004 with its promise of MP.

[FBPro]

I'm thinking that there will be quite a few who will eventually get both games.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
dola

Very bad month to have quit playing games altogether.

Gothic II will finally be arriving at the end of the month.
I just heard that Railroad Tycoon III will be here this month.
TPF was supposed to have been released but thankfully delayed.
And now FOF2004 with its promise of MP.

Bucc, why stop playing games?

I mean, yeah, playing games should not be the thing one tries to do at all times, but if you quit because of some seeming nonsense that as people get older, they should be more responsible, poppycock. If it's a hobby you enjoy (and legal :) ), do it, and screw 'em all! ;)

I plan to play text sim games until I am either tired of playing them or get too busy to play them (and in that case, it will simply be a matter of time before I return to them).

CR

[sabotai]

"I mean, yeah, playing games should not be the thing one tries to do at all times"

What's this about not playing games at all times? :)

[Buccaneer]

Chief, this month I have been getting back to my card collection, after a 15 year layoff. Been addicted to buying on eBay and getting ready to grade and sell as well. Just no time or enthusiasm for games right now. Maybe later though.

[Chief Rum]

Cool deal. I just thought I would head you off at the pass if you were choosing to abandon games because it's not something a geriatric personage like yourself should be playing. ;)

CR

[crushem]

I highly doubt that FOF2004 will allow helmets and logos.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by crushem
I highly doubt that FOF2004 will allow helmets and logos.

Never know, we doubted multiplayer was EVER a possiblity.

[crushem]

Originally posted by FBPro
Never know, we doubted multiplayer was EVER a possiblity.

True

[Mota]

Personally I'm a little skeptical about both titles coming out. Most likely TPF will look beautiful, but TDCB was so empty beneath all the chrome that I didn't enjoy it (funny because CAD was one of my favorite games for a long time).

FOF2004 will be solid, but I get the feeling it won't feel all that much different for single player than the last version. With FOF4 I only played about 5 seasons before shelving the game, it really felt too much like I was controlling a spreadsheet and not real players.

Then again I'm game buying freak so I'll probably pick up both games anyways. I'm a sucker for the hype.

[Vince]

I think the option of having real humans making the decisions behind the other teams will do wonders for the immersion factor of the game.

[kcchief19]

This should tell me to trust my instincts. If so, I could have been a prophet. After Jim's mention the other day that he thought he had dropped a few clues about the new game, I looked back at some recent posts and concluded that based on the comments, all signs pointed to a new FOF. But I was still stuck on the thought that he was working on a "new" sim.

That said, this is exciting news. It seems like my curiousity in MP play has evolved alongside Jim's. Two years ago, I would never have considered MP. Last year I dipped my toe in the initial RWBL launch before quiting in disgust. But after giving the RWBL another try, I'm hooked if you get in a good league. I wouldn't want to get in a league with a bunch of strangers, but I'm ready to give it a try.

The 10% chance I would buy TPF has evaporated.

[sabotai]

"it really felt too much like I was controlling a spreadsheet and not real players. "

I've had the opposite effect. When I tried to play TDCB, aside from the attribute problems, I just couldn't get into it. But with Jim's games, and other games that look more "spreadsheety" (I made that work up), I get immersed in it very easily. Maybe it is because if you were an actual GM, you would be looking at things like this in your stat book and scouting numbers, and not pretty graphics. The more I see pretty graphics, the more I feel like I'm playing Madden or NCAA...without being able to play the games. The more I look at spreadsheets, the more I "feel" like a GM.

But that's just me...I think CM does a great job of mixing graphics with a spreadsheet look. But if it came down to it, I would choose spreadhseet over graphics in a heartbeat.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm just overwhelmed by the information as I read more and more. I just read the feature list and then this thread after reading everything else on the board (I always read oldest threads to newest threads at the top.) This feature list sounds great. I'll definitely be buying FOF2004 at release. I love the idea of a more realistic feeling draft as well as the post draft free agency period to try to combat some of the previous problems. I also agree with others who are happy they won't have to wait up all night to sign up for the 1st batch of CD's, as I will be able to download at my convenience. Excellent news Jim!

[Solecismic]

Thanks everyone. It's great to know that there are still people interested in what I'm doing.

I will take part in a Q&A as soon as everything can be arranged. I'm guessing early next week. I've been working nearly around the clock for quite a while on this game. Really so busy that I never quite found the opportunity to make this announcement until everything was nearly finished.

I'll answer as many questions as possible then. I have not made fundamental changes to the interface. Better control over color schemes, a couple of new bells and whistles, but the same approach, look and feel.

I like spreadsheets. They are ideal for presenting as much data as humanly possible. Excel gets better over the years, and it's obvious why they don't include more graphics - unless you count the dancing paper clip.

I don't think that necessarily makes the game dry. The sheer mass of numbers and the variety and the work I've put in on the engine make the game come alive. That could be an old-school feeling - that the ideal game comes from the stories you create in your own mind. Those are far more entertaining and more interesting than anything a game designer could come up with. I feel my job is to present the gamer with as much information as I can reasonably. The depth in FOF comes from all that information - now well over 100 screens' worth.

That said, I'd like to introduce a new feature on the web site. Inspired by the TPF diaries, one of the beta testers, QuikSand, was nice enough to begin his own diary of his experiences with the new game. Please surf on over to http://www.solecismic.com and take a look.

[sabotai]

"unless you count the dancing paper clip."

Worst. Idea. Ever.

EDIT: QS is a beta tester? He's the popular one when it comes to game developers and helping them, aren't you QS? ;)

[sabotai]

dola,

from the diary: "The file, with a *.fgp extension, amounts to only about 2K of space on my hard drive - so maintaining a library of these files doesn't seem too difficult to conceive. The heart flutters a little bit as I consider the possibilities from the player community."

This is awesome! I love it. Imagine dozens of West Coast offenses you can download from a website, or maybe a few styles of the Run And Gun or a Run Heavy game plan...I can't wai.

[KJDelaney]

Please add the ability to import seasons from other FOF games. I am playing FOF 4 and my Pats have signed Brian Urlacher, Jason Taylor, and John Fina in the off season. Please help me keep them.

[3ric]

Quik is a beta tester?!?

Now that was about the best news I could get about the quality of FOF2004...

Edit:
Link to QS' diary: http://www.solecismic.com/diary.php

[andy m]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Bee, I kinda disagree. TPF will have its huge(?) OOTPdev/400 fanbase to draw from. I perceive ours is fairly small yet vocal and probably more hardcore (for most of us anyway).

true. the folks here just have better taste.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by andy m
true. the folks here just have better taste.

That and we bitch louder.

[Darkiller]

Great to hear from you again Jim.

[Mota]

"unless you count the dancing paper clip"

Ooh, the first time Jim ever responds to one of my posts, and it's one of the best rebuttals ever! :)

I love the spreadsheet look as much as most of the other people here, but in the end I want to feel that I'm managing a team of players, not a set of numbers. Any feature that gets added to the game (like player holdouts) that enhances this sense of immersion is a +++ to me. A lot of the personal messages that get sent to you in CM4 really make me feel like I'm really there, things like players objecting to being sat on the bench, angry teammates when you transfer one of their favorite players, etc. Most of that is already in FOF, but if a message came into my inbox from a player stating this, or if the owners had personal messages that would make it feel so much more real. We know the depth in the engine is there, but sometimes we don't see how certain player decisions are made. I think that would add a lot.

And finally Jim, thank you for supporting the community, I'm sure we will keep supporting you in return!

[Buccaneer]

I don't think that necessarily makes the game dry. The sheer mass of numbers and the variety and the work I've put in on the engine make the game come alive. That could be an old-school feeling - that the ideal game comes from the stories you create in your own mind.

Certainly a difference in philosophy and design.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by 3ric
Quik is a beta tester?!?

Now that was about the best news I could get about the quality of FOF2004...

I was far more excited about this little piece of news than any of the announced new features of the game. Finally Jim expands his beta team beyond Moe, Larry, and Curly (not their real names) and I think it can only help.

QS is the dynasty writer supreme and his diary entries are sure to make interesting reading.

And he's even better at the game than I am, so I'm sure he'll tell Jim how to make it more of a challenge. But will Jim listen? That remains to be seen.

[Buccaneer]

or how to make it more entertaining?

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by Solecismic
Thanks everyone. It's great to know that there are still people interested in what I'm doing.

I will take part in a Q&A as soon as everything can be arranged. I'm guessing early next week. I've been working nearly around the clock for quite a while on this game. Really so busy that I never quite found the opportunity to make this announcement until everything was nearly finished.

I'll answer as many questions as possible then. I have not made fundamental changes to the interface. Better control over color schemes, a couple of new bells and whistles, but the same approach, look and feel.

I like spreadsheets. They are ideal for presenting as much data as humanly possible. Excel gets better over the years, and it's obvious why they don't include more graphics - unless you count the dancing paper clip.

I don't think that necessarily makes the game dry. The sheer mass of numbers and the variety and the work I've put in on the engine make the game come alive. That could be an old-school feeling - that the ideal game comes from the stories you create in your own mind. Those are far more entertaining and more interesting than anything a game designer could come up with. I feel my job is to present the gamer with as much information as I can reasonably. The depth in FOF comes from all that information - now well over 100 screens' worth.

That said, I'd like to introduce a new feature on the web site. Inspired by the TPF diaries, one of the beta testers, QuikSand, was nice enough to begin his own diary of his experiences with the new game. Please surf on over to http://www.solecismic.com and take a look.

I think based on this response and my interpretation, I will certainly give FOF2004 MP a shot, hoping that it will present itself differently than FOF2004 solo.

Thanks Jim for communications, I know the community is looking forward to your answers.

[crushem]

Originally posted by PineTar
Jim had me at <strike>hello</strike> 'multiplayer'. Welcome back to my hard drive Solecismic!!

LOL

[kingnebwsu]

I think this game could give our community the biggest boost it's had...well, ever. :cool:

[samifan24]

Originally posted by kingnebwsu
I think this game could give our community the biggest boost it's had...well, ever. :cool:

Yeah, it'd be like a boob job for FOFC.

[azjoe_02]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue

And he's even better at the game than I am, so I'm sure he'll tell Jim how to make it more of a challenge. But will Jim listen? That remains to be seen.


Why would he invite QS to be a beta tester and not listen??? :confused:

[Icy]

Really great news, i have been 3 days without adsl and some minutes ago it was repaired. I visited 400software forums as everyday and read about TPF being delayed, what a shock, i'm playing nfl2k4 just to kill the nfl fever until TPF was out and now it will be delayed probably until the end of the year. Then i visited this board as everyday and saw FOF2004 anounced!!!! and will be available throught download!! this means i can have it the same day it's released, i can't wait now, i will buy TPF too for the extra features it has, but by now the champ will be for sure FOF2k4 that has been already proved. I have been one of the complainers about fof4 not being downloadable (i don't like elicenses as mostly of you because i'm also worried about the elicense company closing in the future but for games like this that i can't buy retail, is the only option for me that live in Spain), i even said i would have bought it right now if it was but now... a new FOF and downloadable, great news for europeans like me and also that means that Jim read his customers opinions, Jim, here you have a secure buyer and a new believer, i already enjoy TCY a lot and i will enjoy it a lot more now knowing that i will be able to import my draft into fof2k4.

This has been a sad day that turned into a great one :)

[Bee]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Bee, I kinda disagree. TPF will have its huge(?) OOTPdev/400 fanbase to draw from. I perceive ours is fairly small yet vocal and probably more hardcore (for most of us anyway).

That's a very good point. I suspect with the "split" of OOTP and the really bad release they had with TDCB the fan base that OOTP brings to the table really won't be loyal to TPF, especially when I look at the forum activity for TPF. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

[tucker342]

That's awesome! Kind of surprising that he went with another Front Office Football game though.

I'll probably buy it

[Taco]

I feel you were underestimating the sneakiness, sir.

[Sharpieman]

If anyone saw Quicksand's little diary, someone please tell me if FOF2k4 has real player names or not, because Quicksand used real player names and I don't know if he edited them or not.

[JeeberD]

Jim makes a disclaimer at the top of the diary entry stating that FOF does not use real players or teams. I'm sure that QS used one of the rosters from the Historical Society...

[Barkeep49]

Other idea is that since Jim parallels real players, he uses their real names until before release, when he mixes their names up.

[Northwood_DK]

Who difficult can it be to put player faces or/and helmets in the game? I have no experience in programming and therefore nothing to comparer with.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
Who difficult can it be to put player faces or/and helmets in the game? I have no experience in programming and therefore nothing to comparer with.

Putting in faces is relatively simply form a programming standpoint. Reserve space on the dialog, store a "face" index and display that bmp (gif/jpg/png) there. The problem comes in having the talent to create all of the face images. Unless you have a development team that includes artists, this is not going to happen. Since Jim's development team consists of Jim...I would recomend that he concentrate on the enging/AI and not on the fluff

[Northwood_DK]

Originally posted by Fido
Putting in faces is relatively simply form a programming standpoint. Reserve space on the dialog, store a "face" index and display that bmp (gif/jpg/png) there. The problem comes in having the talent to create all of the face images. Unless you have a development team that includes artists, this is not going to happen. Since Jim's development team consists of Jim...I would recomend that he concentrate on the enging/AI and not on the fluff

Why not go the same way as CM4. No faces in the game on relase date, but the option for everyone add later.

[cincyreds]

I will probably wait to hear what most have to say about FOF 2004 before I decide to buy.

TPF sounds really good, I will also wait to hear about it, but am more in favor of this one right now.

I like TDCB, so I am expecting really good things for Arlie and group.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I'll going to have to buy FOF2k4, it sounds great.....

[Sporkimata]

cant wait to see how everything works out for this, Im loving the fact that you can lock players.

[korme]

I have a feeling this is going to feel like the Fourth Edition.

But I can't decide if that is a good or bad thing.

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
I have a feeling this is going to feel like the Fourth Edition.

But I can't decide if that is a good or bad thing.


"feel" like FOF4 is a good thing in my eyes, although I wish the look was more appealing. You can still have that mega stats feeling with pretty looking menus.

I know most of you hard core FOF people enjoy the spreadsheet look to it, but I like the TPF look much better.

Ahhhh.... why can't we have both? Isn't there always two games you want incorporated into eachother? :)


Todd

[Ben E Lou]

bump/un-stick

[Front Office Midget]

I don't mind the spreadheets whatsoever.