Recent E-Mails

[Ben E Lou]

These are e-mails sent since the league got up to 31 members.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Lewis [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:10 PM

Gents:

I am writing to update y'all. The league is now "full," although I'm holding spot #32 for Jim Gindin, who has agreed to reconsider his position about joining! Here are our other owners:

albionmoonlight
Bee
Blackadar
Buccaneer
Buzzbee
Celeval
Chief Rum
cthomer5000
cuervo72
Daimyo
Darkiller
FBPro
Fritz
GRantDawg
Hell Atlantic
HornedFrogPurple
Jason TobiasIV
Kodos
KWhit
mckerney
MIJB#19
primelord
QuikSand
Ryan S
Sack Attaack
Samdari
Senator
SkyDog
Subby
TroyF
Vince
Right now, there are no others on the waiting list. There are a few outstanding invites, but honestly I'm not certain I'll ever hear back from them (guys like Morgado, OldSchool, and ez).

FIRST QUESTION: Does anyone among us volunteer to be commish, or is there someone from outside this group that any of you'd like to nominate?

In my mind, my organizational work is done once Jim responds, and either joins the league, or we get someone else to fill that spot. Once we have a commish, then we can let that person lead discussion on decisions such as roster set, teams, rules, etc. My suggestion: we wait at least for the demo, and probably for the release, to make final decisions on such matters. I, for one, am not sure whether or not a "fantasy draft" or "allocation draft" is an option for a multiplayer league. I guess, with Jim's permission, Quik could shed some light on these things if need be.

--Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: anthony casso [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 6:54 PM

to me, there are only 2 options:

1. start the league with actual NFL rosters (my
favorite option)
2. start the league with fictional players

i have no desire to see Brett Favre on the Bengals,
and Randy Moss on the Jets. ultimately i will give in
to popular demand if a fantasy draft is what everyone
wants, but just know i wouldn't be as happy. in my
mind the league doesnt get really exciting until about
6 years in when we're playing in a league full of guys
we drafted. just some food for thought. can't wait to
get this started.

btw, do you realize if all 31 of those names in this
league were to suddenly stop posting at FOFC, it'd be
a totally different place?!? lol, we got some friggin
legends in this league.

what's the word on Marc Vaughn participating in our
league? i'd like to nominate him as our commish if he
wouldn't mind being involved in the league without a
team.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:04 PM

I agree that Step #1 is getting a commish. Step #2 is everything else.

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey Thompson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:06 PM

I'd be in favor of a fictional league, but
real/fictional players definitely would NOT be a
sticking point for me. At the very least, I'd like to
be able to rename my team and city, which I doubt
anyone would have a problem with.

Rather than filling up everyones inboxes, is there a
way to organize this discussion somewhere else? A
thread?
A secret forum (or just use the Strategies forum)?
Any thoughts?

Corey [cthomer5000]

-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Buff [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:25 PM

All -

First can we agree to put FOF2K4 in the subject of mail to the group? I only know most of you by FOFC handles and am afraid I will delete a message as spam without opening it.

I will always prefer fictional rosters, but even if we start with real players fictional ones will enter the league at over 200 per year. So whatever folks want is okay with me.

As far as what to do next is concerned, I will be happy to help with some things. If no one else will commish, I will do it, but I don't think I would be the best long term pick.

As far as Jim goes, I too would like to see on board so he can see first hand how 31 people can break something he has labored on for 6 years.

Good to see so many familiar names in one place.

Best,

Fritz

Frederick Hancock Buff
Buffworks


----Original Message-----
From: Josh Hiscock [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:25 PM

I'd prefer to see real players and default rosters, personally. As somebody else pointed out, we're going to see 200+ new players each year, and those are just the ones who are drafted. Full fictionality will come in time, but to begin with, I know it will be easier for me personally to get comfortable with my team if there are at least players that I know. With as many players as you have on a real NFL roster, I think it would be a little bit like drinking from a fire hose to have to scout enough fictional players to fill 46 roster spots + backups. Too much, too soon.

That's just me. I'll go with whatever's decided, but that would certainly be my preference.

-Josh/SackAttack

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian and Stephanie Jenkins [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:36 PM

I agree with Josh, and also agree that getting a Commish is the first step toward the rest. I'll also go on record as saying I hope Jim will join the league.

Skydog, do you think you could go ahead and make a slot for the league on FOFC so we don't fill up our mailboxes with this stuff?

Brian (Grantdawg)

-----Original Message-----
From: Tru [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:37 PM

All,

Yes commish should be first, then let the pieces fall where they may. I have no preference as to fictional/real players. I will help as much as I can but I really can't commish with what I do for a living.

If you guys want I can ask the wifey what free messageboards we could use temporarily, but there will probably be popups.

Looking forward to leading the league in sacks and penalties.

Ty (HFP)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:03 PM

I agree that the commish issue should be #1, as far as the makeup of the teams i say either real players and stock teams or fictional w/ standard rosters. I say no draft as that would take forever.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Shue [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:43 PM

I would hate to think that we weren't going to have a draft of fictional players.

Half the fun of a new league is doing the draft research and analysis that comes with building a new team from scratch. Going in with preconceived notions of existing players is no fun because FOF may not properly reflect their skillset anyhow...

At the very least it would be fun to do the first X picks live and the rest via list or autodraft...

Subby

[Dutch]

Wow, that's one awesome collection of FOFC'ers. If anybody wants to not participate, LET ME KNOW!!!

[MrBug708]

I guess I should start paying attention to Skydog more if I wanted to be in his league

=P

[Buccaneer]

Oh great, we are letting the riff-raff in? :D

[MrBug708]

Har Har Har

Gives us a good list on who not to "recruit"

[Dutch]

That was probably the first mistake of the fledgling FOFC #1 premier division. :)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Har Har Har

Gives us a good list on who not to "recruit" Assuming multiplayer works well, some people will play in more than one league I'm sure.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Har Har Har

Gives us a good list on who not to "recruit"

Too late, you guys already recruited me.

[Blackadar]

Nice to see you, mckerney.

We should call this the FOF Legends League. :)

[mckerney]

Nice to see you too.

Wouldn't be a bad name for it, though you're team will probably be feared throughout the league as you lead your legion of Sodomites onto the gridiron.

Hey, you should be the Raiders. :)

[Fritz]

I think there are many fiine "non legends" who will work their way into the league, some before we get going. I know Ryan will leave when he discovers this is a dry league.

[mckerney]

So, after the first season who expects Bucc to draft a scrambling quarterback in the first round who goes on to throws for 3000 and runs for 800 yards a season?

[Buccaneer]

Who expects Bucc to even know if a quarterback can scramble or not?

In Jim's AI I Trust.

:)

[Senator]

You have passed the first test grasshopper.

[Vince]

What's up all...looking forward to this. Hopefully I'll be one of the non-legends making an impact.

I agree that we need to find a commish first off.

Personally, I have absolutely no preference whatsoever on how we start the league. While Subby makes some good points, Josh does as well. I'd have no problem with doing the 'homework' on getting to know every player in a fictional league. However, I don't know that everyone has the same schedule flexibility as I do and the time to devote to that type of undertaking.

I'm up for anything guys.

Vince

[Doug5984]

I must have missed the sign-up for this league, if someone drops out I would love to be apart of this.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by Doug5984
I must have missed the sign-up for this league, if someone drops out I would love to be apart of this.

I don't know if there were any.:rolleyes:

[TroyF]

I prefer fictional players with a dispersal draft. Kind of a luck of the draw type thing. I don't want anyone to have the excuse "I had the Lions" after I win the first four championships. :) :)

TroyF

[FBPro]

I would mind either:

-Draft the first 8-10 players live, then auto-draft the rest.
OR
-Auto-draft the whole thing.

Having a full draft most would lose interest when it came down to drafting their backup right guard or something, not to mention just the time it would take.

[SackAttack]

Speaking personally, my schedule isn't necessarily packed, but it IS erratic (no, Fritz, I didn't say erotic).

It's not consistent from one week to the next, and while that wouldn't affect participation, it WOULD affect my ability to properly prepare for a draft - more so a fictional draft than a default dispersal draft, to be sure, but there would still be an effect.

QS, I don't know if you can answer this, but when starting multiplayer leagues, when there's a draft involved, does the game allow for differences? Like, can one team set simply preferences for position weighting, age weighting, that sort of thing, while another team drafts specific players? That might be one way to reach a sort of middle ground on that issue.

[GrantDawg]

I'll do whatever the group wants to do the most, but I'm for starting with real teams as stated earlier. A fiction universe with full draft would take a good bit of time, but if that is what we want then that'll be fine.

[FBPro]

In FOF4 you can start w/ a perference draft, so it is possible something like that would be included.

[Alf]

It seems I missed the roll call. Put me on the waiting list in case an opening happens.

Alf

[Fritz]

I just want want first pick on coaches

[Bee]

Originally posted by TroyF
I prefer fictional players with a dispersal draft. Kind of a luck of the draw type thing. I don't want anyone to have the excuse "I had the Lions" after I win the first four championships. :) :)

TroyF

My inclination is the same as Troy's, fictional players with a dispersal draft. My preference is also for fictional teams. That may avoid 5 guys wanting the Falcons, 3 guys wanting the Redskins and someone getting stuck with the Bengals. But if real rosters and teams are want the majority want, that's fine too. I call the Seahawks. :D

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
I just want want first pick on noses

Ewwwww!


My $0.02 is that I don't have a preference either way. While the idea of a live draft for the first few rounds sounds intriguing, I'm guessing it would be damn near impossible. Try getting 10 or 15 people together for a fantasy football draft. Can be a nightmare. And we're going to do it with 32? And with people overseas?

I'm guessing that we'll have to either go with existing teams or use preferences. Of those options, I would probably prefer existing teams, whether fictional or not. In a few seasons most of us will have significantly personalized our teams anyway. I say Jim gets the Cardinals.

[Celeval]

&ltecho&rt
Let's get a commish.
Type of league doesn't matter so much.
&lt/echo&rt

Can we get a quick 1-2 from Jim or QS with what is involved in being commissioner? If there was a level of effort, we might get more volunteers. ;)

[KWhit]

Originally posted by Bee
My inclination is the same as Troy's, fictional players with a dispersal draft. My preference is also for fictional teams. That may avoid 5 guys wanting the Falcons, 3 guys wanting the Redskins and someone getting stuck with the Bengals. But if real rosters and teams are want the majority want, that's fine too. I call the Seahawks. :D

I agree with this. Fictional players, a dispersal draft, and fictional teams. The draft will take a lot of research, so I understand people's concerns, and I wouldn't be upset either way.

But if we do go with real players and default rosters we'll have to deal with the whole issue of who gets each team.

[Fritz]

I could probably get something like this to work to help with draft scouting.

http://www.buffworks.com/bw/fof/fatool/

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Fritz
I could probably get something like this to work to help with draft scouting.

http://www.buffworks.com/bw/fof/fatool/

I wonder if we could actually build something to do the draft itself online. Add a 'select player' button which allocates the player to your team, keep displaying players where team_id is null. Might not be too hard.

Of course, then we'd be dealing with authentication issues and only allowing the current team to select...

I'm for fictional players and teams, for the record. For the initial draft I suppose we could just roll the dice, but that would be less fun IMO.

[Daimyo]

My order of preference:

1. Fantasy universe w/ forum draft of first ~10-20 rounds, list draft the rest
2. Fantasy universe w/ preference draft
3. Fantasy universe w/ random dispersal
4. Real universe w/ forum draft of first ~10-20 rounds, list draft the rest
5. Real universe w/ preference draft
6. Real universe w/ random dispersal
7. Real universe w/ NFL rosters

No matter what we do I think owners should be allowed to customize there location and team nicknames.

[Daimyo]

DOLA, for the draft (preference or actual) can you customize the draft type like in OOTP or is it always straight? I would highly prefer snake style if we do a draft and have the option.

[KWhit]

Originally posted by Daimyo
DOLA, for the draft (preference or actual) can you customize the draft type like in OOTP or is it always straight? I would highly prefer snake style if we do a draft and have the option.

I agree. This is pretty important for a dispersal draft or the team picking last is screwed (not in a good way).

[albionmoonlight]

I would prefer fictional teams and fictional players.

I like the idea of a live draft, but it will be hard for 32 people. Perhaps a dispersal draft makes the most sense.

[condors]

add me to the waiting list

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Who expects Bucc to even know if a quarterback can scramble or not?

In Jim's AI I Trust.

:)

Well the media has put a lot of investment in seeing Bucc's quarterback succeed... :D

It looks like Senator and I will have to share the brain. I need to book it on Wednesdays.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
My $0.02 is that I don't have a preference either way. While the idea of a live draft for the first few rounds sounds intriguing, I'm guessing it would be damn near impossible. Try getting 10 or 15 people together for a fantasy football draft. Can be a nightmare. And we're going to do it with 32? And with people overseas?

I second this. I (and TroyF) am in an online fantasy football league in which a full football team is run. 53 man rosters with 5 man practice squads. For the initial veteran draft, we drafted 41 rounds, with 12 picks per round, and an 18 hour clock. We took 6 weeks to complete it. For a 53 round draft, with 32 teams, we would not start playing games for ~6 months. I'd rather have a preference draft and start kicking all y'all's butts sooner.

I have one more request: break up this thread. We moved these discussions to the forums for more organization. Having all issues related to the league discussed in one thread is not much improvement. There are many issues to be discussed, including commish, initial players, initial player distribution, etc. and I think they all merit their own thread.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
I second this. I (and TroyF) am in an online fantasy football league in which a full football team is run. 53 man rosters with 5 man practice squads. For the initial veteran draft, we drafted 41 rounds, with 12 picks per round, and an 18 hour clock. We took 6 weeks to complete it. For a 53 round draft, with 32 teams, we would not start playing games for ~6 months. I'd rather have a preference draft and start kicking all y'all's butts sooner.

I have one more request: break up this thread. We moved these discussions to the forums for more organization. Having all issues related to the league discussed in one thread is not much improvement. There are many issues to be discussed, including commish, initial players, initial player distribution, etc. and I think they all merit their own thread. Good call. I'll create the threads.

[HornedFrog Purple]

1. Fantasy universe w/ forum draft of first ~10-20 rounds, list draft the rest

If I was forced to pick one, this would be it. If you go 20 rounds, technically you could fill all but two starting positions then have the AI fill in the rest. Maybe allow an extra couple of days for trading/tweaking.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Good call. I'll create the threads. On second thought, I'll wait to create threads until we know more of what we're dealing with. For example, is a full or partial fantasy draft even an option? That would be a new feature to FOF, wouldn't it?

[Bee]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
If I was forced to pick one, this would be it. If you go 20 rounds, technically you could fill all but two starting positions then have the AI fill in the rest. Maybe allow an extra couple of days for trading/tweaking.

That would be 640 picks. How long of a clock would you suggest for each pick?

[HornedFrog Purple]

Well everyone could compile a list for 2 or 3 picks a day, post it within 24 hours of the round then have it tabulated. That would eliminate the need of having to wait for someone.

Just a thought.

[RPI-Fan]

I know most of you are putting yourself on a perch higher up than me, but if you're willing to lend an ear, I'd suggest a relatively quick day-time clock.

Perhaps from 9am-6pm EST the clock is 20 minutes, or so. In off-hours, there is no clock. This would allow the draft to move quickly, while still not making it _too_ tough on any one person (well, except MIJB).

I think this might allow things to go relatively quickly (though I still wouldn't recommend drafting more than 15-20 rounds initially).

Good luck with your "elite" league...:rolleyes:

~kyle

[Samdari]

Originally posted by SkyDog
On second thought, I'll wait to create threads until we know more of what we're dealing with. For example, is a full or partial fantasy draft even an option? That would be a new feature to FOF, wouldn't it?

Oops, created one. I agree with you that this discussion is a bit premature. However, I think we all know it is going to happen anyway :) It might as well be a bit less cluttered, even if we have no idea what we are talking about.

So, I created one thread, about initial player pool. Even if we don't know the exact details, I think its good to get ideas about what people prefer in terms of what players they want. Initial player distribution seems to be the hot topic of the moment, with no way of stopping that train, so it warrants a thread.

[Fritz]

cuervo, an online draft is not a big problem (i think), but more effort than I plan to commit to a one time project that includes users like Bucc and Troy.

Edit - not picking on Bucc and Tony, just noting that both of them are particular.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Fritz
cuervo, an online draft is not a big problem (i think), but more effort than I plan to commit to a one time project that includes users like Bucc and Troy.

Hmm, good point about being single-use. And I didn't necessarily mean that you had to program it, just that it could be done. I'm sure I could pull it off if I had the time to, especially if importing/exporting of players is easier in this version.

[Eaglesfan27]

Please add me to the waiting list if there is one. Thank you.

[mckerney]

A draft of even 20 rounds would take way to long I think.

[Darkiller]

I'll do what the majority wants obviously although I'd be happy if we start with current players for an easier grasp of the game...

After all, after just a short 8-season frame : it'll be a totally fictionnal league...so maybe some guys will be willing to play the first few seasons with the current players..I don't know..

[Celeval]

Drawing on OOTP and Baseball Pro experience; any 30-ish team draft with 20 players being live will take about an hour/round. Fill that up, it'll probably be closer to 80 minutes. IMHO, that's way too long for a live draft.

If we do draft, I think it needs to be preference based.

Kevin

[Daimyo]

If we can't manage 10-20 rounds of live drafting now, how are we possibly going to handle the yearly offseason draft?

[Bee]

7 rounds is a lot less than 20. Also, we really don't know how the program is setup to handle the draft in multiplayer. A live draft may not even be a possibility, it might be only possible using the draft preference settings.

[Daimyo]

Couple of thoughts:

In the FOBL we do the first three rounds of the amateur draft each year in a big league-wide chat with a 2 minute clock. Anyone who can not attend either sends a draft list or accepts an ai-pick. In the week or two or so of offseason before the draft chat people post picks ont he forum. It usually works out that the first round is finished in that pre-draft time, rounds 2-3 take about 3 hours in chat, and then rounds 4-5 are done two days later via list. This is with a 36 team league and it seems to work well.

For the initial draft the first 10 rounds were done live in a big league-wide chat with a 3 minute(?) clock. Anyone who could not attend submitted a list or accepted ai picks. After that I think it went one round of list for 11-20, and another round of list for 21-50.


One way to do 20 rounds in a reasonably quick fashion would be to do two rounds/day by list. Everyone would submit a list with anywhere from 33-64 players (depending on where you picked) by a certain time each day and the commish would process those two rounds and post the results. Two rounds is small enough IMO that you wouldn't need any very many conditional statements to complicate things (ie, if my 1st pick is a QB don't take a QB with my 2nd pick).

[HornedFrog Purple]

One way to do 20 rounds in a reasonably quick fashion would be to do two rounds/day by list. Everyone would submit a list with anywhere from 33-64 players (depending on where you picked) by a certain time each day and the commish would process those two rounds and post the results. Two rounds is small enough IMO that you wouldn't need any very many conditional statements to complicate things (ie, if my 1st pick is a QB don't take a QB with my 2nd pick).

That is sorta what I said, but this is better.

[Vince]

Originally posted by SkyDog
...is a full or partial fantasy draft even an option? That would be a new feature to FOF, wouldn't it?

Not to try to create more work, but since we have control of all the teams, couldn't we just do this on our own and then manipulate the teams to reflect the results if we really wanted to?