Not Sure What to Make Of This...

[Ksyrup]

I heard a very interesting story today and thought I'd pass it along for comments...

My wife's best friend from high school has a 3 year old son, Matthew. Her dad, Tony, passed away about 11 years ago. To their knowledge, Matthew has never heard the name Tony, at least not in relation to her father. I don't know if they've even talked about why he has a Grandma but not a Grandpa, but they are adamant that Tony's name has never come up.

Recently, Matthew has begun to speak of an "imaginary friend" named Tony. He says that Tony has been teaching him to fish and comes from Australia. When they pressed him a bit more, he said that Tony lives in a Florida swamp and loves gators. The real Tony was an avid fisherman and always talked about wanting to visit Australia, and in fact, had been planning a trip before he suffered a heart attack and passed away. He was a high school biology teacher in South Florida and frequently spent time in swampy areas studying gator habitats and related subjects.

Is that not freaky?!

[vex]

Freaky indeed.

[SunDancer]

How did they respond to that? The parents

[sabotai]

The story comes from a female. It can't be trusted. :)

[Ksyrup]

No, it came from both of the parents at lunch today.

I don't think they "responded" in front of the kid, but obviously, they find it amazing and have been trying to get him to speak more often about Tony, to see what else he will tell them.

[cuervo72]

I've always wondered about imaginary friends, and if they can be more substantive than just a child's imagination.

[Schmidty]

Demons aren't imaginary, unfortunately.

[MikeVic]

Maybe everyone in your life is an actor, and they are testing how far you will believe? Then, at the last second, everyone will yell "SURPRISE! You're on the new Fox reality show!!!"

Wouldn't that be something?

[Suicane75]

Originally posted by Schmidty
Demons aren't imaginary, unfortunately.

Explain.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by MikeVic
Maybe everyone in your life is an actor, and they are testing how far you will believe? Then, at the last second, everyone will yell "SURPRISE! You're on the new Fox reality show!!!"

Wouldn't that be something?

You're not supposed to tell him!!!

Boy are you gonna get it. Christof is gonna be so pissed at you when he finds this...

[MikeVic]

Originally posted by mckerney
You're not supposed to tell him!!!

Boy are you gonna get it. Christof is gonna be so pissed at you when he finds this...

:( Ksyrup, I hope you appreciate this... if I mysteriousley vanish from the boards, call my mom.

[JeeberD]

Wow, and just after DD's picture magically fell to the floor...

Gozar the Gozarian is on her way back.

Who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters!!!!!

[Fritz]

the child is in dire need of shock therapy.

[BucDawg40]

Originally posted by Suicane75
Explain.


Yeah -- this should be interesting.

[korme]

Originally posted by sabotai
The story comes from a female. It can't be trusted. :)

that my friends is a quote to live by

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by Suicane75
Explain.

I'll think about it, but I'm not sure you'd really want to know.

[Drake]

Not every manifestation of the paranormal is demonic, despite what the religious right wants you to believe. The Catholic Church recognizes this. A great number of Protestant denominations outside the U.S. recognize this.

Go back and re-read the story of Saul and the witch of Endor for a start.

[Fritz]

Don’t mind Drake, he is possessed

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Schmidty
I'll think about it, but I'm not sure you'd really want to know.

Come on. Don't leave us hanging...

[Tigercat]

Originally posted by Drake

Go back and re-read the story of Saul and the witch of Endor for a start.

Endor? Ewoks have witches?

[Suicane75]

Originally posted by Schmidty
I'll think about it, but I'm not sure you'd really want to know.

Does the fact that I asked you to explain indicate that I might want to know? Stop being so dramatic.

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by Drake
Not every manifestation of the paranormal is demonic, despite what the religious right wants you to believe.

This is the exact reason I won't share my story with the close-minded people of this board. I refuse to be labled.

Play with demonic forces at your own risk, fools. You have NO fucking idea.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Plus, I'm sure most of the Chistian-aphobes don't want to hear my personal testimony.

The Lord's wrath is mighty, and as pathetic as Satan is, fooling with his minions is idiotic. That is all I will say at this time.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Schmidty
This is the exact reason I won't share my story with the close-minded people of this board. I refuse to be labled.

Play with demonic forces at your own risk, fools. You have NO fucking idea.

I can't speak for others, but I for one try to be open-minded about everything including religion and mysticism. Unfortunately, most religious people I know (not necessarily you) are completely closed to other religions/ideas...

[wbonnell]

dola:
i'm also equally open-minded with respect to science. In this case, abnormal psychology.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally posted by Schmidty
Dola.

Plus, I'm sure most of the Chistian-aphobes don't want to hear my personal testimony.

The Lord's wrath is mighty, and as pathetic as Satan is, fooling with his minions is idiotic. That is all I will say at this time.
Okay, so now you've piqued everyone's interest. In the spirit of the Halloween season, let us all hear what you have to say.

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by AnalBumCover
Okay, so now you've piqued everyone's interest. In the spirit of the Halloween season, let us all hear what you have to say.

That's the exact reason I'll probably wait. This isn't about entertainment. This is about the salvation of my soul.

I know that sounds dramatic, but, well, it is.

[Suicane75]

Why bother posting at all if all your gonna do is tell us that you arn't gonna tell us?

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by Suicane75
Why bother posting at all if all your gonna do is tell us that you arn't gonna tell us?

Ok.

[Tigercat]

Regardless, I really don't think anything any of us have seen or thought we have seen in our lifetimes should have us draw the conclusion that a little kid's soul may be in trouble just because he MAY(and that may be the worlds biggest may) be in conact with his grandfather. If there is such a thing as "spirits", you would really have to be paranoid about the world to think of them all as demonic. And furthermore, I do not think Yaweh(sp?), God, or Allah(damn i can't spell) would want you to be clinging to them out of paranoia. But, I guess to each his own.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally posted by Schmidty
Play with demonic forces at your own risk, fools. You have NO fucking idea.

I have to argee with Schmidty on this one. Watching scary movies is nothing. But if you try to fuck with evil spirits, you will get fucked one way or the other. To me, its proof of God and Satan.

[haji1]

Where is our resident satanist, sabotai, on this one. Sorry if that is not spelled correctly.

As a right wing religious fanatic I have to disagree with Drake. I think most of us believe there are many forces at work at this world. Both demonic and of God.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Schmidty
That's the exact reason I'll probably wait. This isn't about entertainment. This is about the salvation of my soul.

I know that sounds dramatic, but, well, it is.

I'll bet my story trumps yours, and it was demonic. But that doesn't mean that all paranormal encounters are demonic.

Physics can more than adequately explain what's going on here without involving the demonic. I've got some interesting links to this sort of thing, and I'll post them later today if I can find the time to track them down.

By the way, I hope my tone didn't come off as though I was attacking you earlier, Schmidty. I certainly didn't mean to, but as I re-read my post, it sounds a bit pissy.

[Drake]

Originally posted by haji1
Where is our resident satanist, sabotai, on this one. Sorry if that is not spelled correctly.

As a right wing religious fanatic I have to disagree with Drake. I think most of us believe there are many forces at work at this world. Both demonic and of God.

And paranatural (i.e. paranormal) forces that are completely independent of the demonic...which makes them defacto agents of God. :)

[Drake]

Okay, try these:

http://www.mythopedia.info/ghost-model.htm

- This is a pretty useful introduction to overlapping EM fields and/or the concept of psychospheres. Of course, anything that doesn't address the relativity of time omits half the useful explanations. :)

http://mindomain.blogspot.com/ps.html

- Bear with this doof in the beginning paragraphs. Later on, it's a pretty good lay discussion of important principles. Worth a read if you just want a thumbnail of this debate.

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/paradigms.html

- Getting there, but still not the exact articles I'm looking for. Seems I managed to blow away my good bookmarks on the last PC shift.


What I'm suggesting is that most paranormal incidents are neither demonic, nor accurately paranormal -- just "normal" in a way we don't completely understand.

In our next episode, we'll explore the implications of Post-Crucifixion Gnostic (particularly Sethian) Theology on Understanding Paranormal Phenomena.

(Psst. Don't discount the Gnostics just because they were condemned as heretics. They had their shit together, baby, even if the proto-Catholics did have all the guns.)

[FishFan]

I'd like to hear your story sometime, Drake.

[Airhog]

okay, I will add a few ghost stories to this thread.

At my gf's house, a kid died after jumping out of a window in the bathroom and comitting suicide. The upstairs was haunted for sometime, but the ghost has moved on.

At my parents house, I have seen the ghost of the first dog I can remember my parents having, a big dog, not a great dane, but a dog of this size. It was eventually laid to rest in their backyard. I have also seen a black spirit that was so frightning I could not even move. every muscle in my body was paralyzed.


My gf has seen other ghosts. An ex-gf of mine also saw ghosts. she had a ghost that was always with her, and seemed to be a protector.

[BucDawg40]

Required reading:

Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by BucDawg40
Required reading:

Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

Absolutely- I loved it. One has to remember, though, that Sagan is as dogmatic about science as the Pope is about Catholicism. Check out my (fairly lame) first attempt at discussing the issues between God and science:

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15463

It's about 2/3's of the way down.

[Bee]

Originally posted by wbonnell
It's about 2/3's of the way down.
That could be a Quiksand puzzle... ;)

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I believe in Ghosts..... I saw one a few years ago in a old apartment I use to live in. It was a woman, she appeared in the middle of the night, during a very bad dream... I was woke up and no shit, there was a white shape in the upper corner of my room. I couldn't believe it, I was frozen and all I could do was throw my blankets over my head and wait. I leaned over and turned on my light on the nightstand. She was gone and I was still very scared so I stayed up all night writing about it on my computer. It freaked my out so I ended up moving the next week.

All I can say is I saw the shape and for some reason I could tell it was a woman with blonde hair and a red sweater. Very strange, it still distrubes me when I bring it up.

[JeeberD]

Here's my spooky story. It's not really that much, but it's the best that I got...

My dad was in the Army when I was growing up, and we were stationed in Germany for seven years. During this time, we traveled all over Europe, exploring most of the countries on the continent. On one of our vacations we went to Ireland, and while traveling to one of our set destinations there, my parents found out that nearby was the graveyard where William Butler Yeats was buried. So we made a small detour to go visit his grave, and once we arrived there, we found that Yeats son had just died. Well, in much of Europe space is limited in graveyards, so many families purchase one plot and bury a family memeber there. When the next generation dies, the bones of the previous person are dug up, and the larger ones (legs, arms, ribs, etc) are usually stored somewhere in the church. However, quite often some of the smaller bones and broken pieces of bone are just left in the soil of the grave. Well, the same thing was true for the Yeats family plot. His son had only died earlier in the week, and the grave was quite fresh. As we went to inspect the grave, we noticed several pieces of bone in the fresh soil. These had to be pieces of bone of the great poet himself! My father proceeded to pick up one of the larger pieces, what he said was a piece of the jawbone (with his being a doctor, he should be right). He kinda looked at it for a while, and then he started to think about how it would be neat (extremely morbid, but neat) to have a piece of WB Yeats for himself. As soon as this though came into his head, a gust of wind picked up which blew over and shattered a vase of flowers that had been placed on the grave. It's safe to say that my dad was sufficiently spooked, he dropped the bone, and we were out of there very, very quickly.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
I believe in Ghosts..... I saw one a few years ago in a old apartment I use to live in. It was a woman, she appeared in the middle of the night, during a very bad dream... I was woke up and no shit, there was a white shape in the upper corner of my room. I couldn't believe it, I was frozen and all I could do was throw my blankets over my head and wait. I leaned over and turned on my light on the nightstand. She was gone and I was still very scared so I stayed up all night writing about it on my computer. It freaked my out so I ended up moving the next week.

All I can say is I saw the shape and for some reason I could tell it was a woman with blonde hair and a red sweater. Very strange, it still distrubes me when I bring it up.

I occassionally suffer from pavor nocturnus- night terrors. When I suddenly awake from sleep, I think I see thing: bugs, people, etc. For a few seconds to as long as a few minutes, I have trouble separating dream from reality. Are the things I experience in , then, apparitions? If so, my house is freakin' haunted! :)

[Ksyrup]

I had a roommate in college like that. Every so often, he'd scare the livin' shit out of me by jumping out of bed in the middle of the night screaming about spiders. This was in a dorm, so we were in the same room, and he'd jump up screaming "Get them off of me, get them off of me!" Until I could get the lights on and literally shake some sense into him, he was sure he could see and feel spiders all over his body.

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
I believe in Ghosts..... I saw one a few years ago in a old apartment I use to live in. It was a woman, she appeared in the middle of the night, during a very bad dream... I was woke up and no shit, there was a white shape in the upper corner of my room. I couldn't believe it, I was frozen and all I could do was throw my blankets over my head and wait. I leaned over and turned on my light on the nightstand. She was gone and I was still very scared so I stayed up all night writing about it on my computer. It freaked my out so I ended up moving the next week.

All I can say is I saw the shape and for some reason I could tell it was a woman with blonde hair and a red sweater. Very strange, it still distrubes me when I bring it up.

You wake up in the middle of hte night to find a strange blond chick in a red sweater hanging out in your bedroom, and you don't make a pass at her?

Not very cocky or funny.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
You wake up in the middle of hte night to find a strange blond chick in a red sweater hanging out in your bedroom, and you don't make a pass at her?

Not very cocky or funny.

Hey, This is something that I have a hard time talking about and I know this is just a message board but Damn this Quote is just stupid and completely useless.... You should think before posting, Cam.......

[AnalBumCover]

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
Hey, This is something that I have a hard time talking about and I know this is just a message board but Damn this Quote is just stupid and completely useless.... You should think before posting, Cam.......
He's right, Cam. The correct grammar should be:

"Not very cocky <b>NOR</b> funny."

[Tigercat]

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
Hey, This is something that I have a hard time talking about and I know this is just a message board but Damn this Quote is just stupid and completely useless.... You should think before posting, Cam.......

On a more serious note, maybe you'd feel better about the whole thing if you came to grips with it? On the plus side, if you did see a ghost, it inrefutably proves in the exsistence of something besides our simple 75 year long lives. Two, a ghost can't really do much to you right? I mean despite horror flicks, you don't hear many families claiming a ghost killed someone? I understand it most have been a frightening experience, but we all have to get over extreme fears at one time or another, and hey humor can help. If I saw a ghost-woman and she scared the bejesus out of me, the thought of hittin on a strange (albeit probably dead) girl in my room would help aleviate some tension. :)

[tucker342]

Ya, I think that would do it for me to.....


Have any of you ever listened to the radio show called coast to coast? that's on at like midnight? It talks about all this type of shit....

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by tucker342
Ya, I think that would do it for me to.....


Have any of you ever listened to the radio show called coast to coast? that's on at like midnight? It talks about all this type of shit....

And I'll bet they exhaustively explore the prosaic explanantions.... :)

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
Hey, This is something that I have a hard time talking about and I know this is just a message board but Damn this Quote is just stupid and completely useless.... You should think before posting, Cam.......

I did think before posting. I thought it was funny.

Sorry if I offended you, ticked you off, or made you feel bad in any way.

[panerd]

Originally posted by wbonnell
I occassionally suffer from pavor nocturnus- night terrors. When I suddenly awake from sleep, I think I see thing: bugs, people, etc. For a few seconds to as long as a few minutes, I have trouble separating dream from reality. Are the things I experience in , then, apparitions? If so, my house is freakin' haunted! :)

Yeah, I unfortunatly have the same problem and it is defintiely much stronger when I drink a lot of alcohol, am in an unfamilair setting, after running long distances that day (have no idea why), or have a stressful situation in my life. I have freaked out many of people with my sleepwalking and talking. And I can look back on a lot of experiances I have had and laugh about what I was thinking, but damn is it scary when it is happening.

I think situations like I have make me about 100 times more compassinate towards the mentally ill. You would be hardpressed to convince me there isn't someone in my room for about 20 minutes after I wake up.

[panerd]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
I did think before posting. I thought it was funny.

Sorry if I offended you, ticked you off, or made you feel bad in any way.

I would have to agree with Cam and Tigercat earlier that you should have a good sense of humor about it. It was probably the tail end of a dream and while freaky at the time you should have some fun with it later. Otherwise I have probably seen about 100 ghosts in my lifetime.

[korme]

Originally posted by Schmidty
Dola.

Plus, I'm sure most of the Chistian-aphobes don't want to hear my personal testimony.

The Lord's wrath is mighty, and as pathetic as Satan is, fooling with his minions is idiotic. That is all I will say at this time.

i heart schmidty :D

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by panerd
Yeah, I unfortunatly have the same problem and it is defintiely much stronger when I drink a lot of alcohol, am in an unfamilair setting, after running long distances that day (have no idea why), or have a stressful situation in my life. I have freaked out many of people with my sleepwalking and talking. And I can look back on a lot of experiances I have had and laugh about what I was thinking, but damn is it scary when it is happening.

I think situations like I have make me about 100 times more compassinate towards the mentally ill. You would be hardpressed to convince me there isn't someone in my room for about 20 minutes after I wake up.

Yes- definitely scary as hell. Fortunately, our minds are quickly able to shift back to reality. Imagine the poor guy stuck in that terrifying universe.

Anyway, before my point is lost, I am inclined to believe that apparitions and the like are the same phenomenon (hallucinations) but simply to a lesser degree.