Pats are 7-2!

[lytic]

Holy poop!

[Glengoyne]

Finally! This is the fourth time I have headed into monday night either leading or with a chance to win the office pool. Once again I was sweating it out till the end. I had the Pats, and a total score of 40. I wasn't too worried about the points, but the damn broncos hung in there for the whole darn game. Where were these broncos last week, when I went out on a limb to pick them over the Ravens?

[lytic]

I was ready for Jarious Jackson, but Danny looked pretty good (minus a few throws) for a 3rd stringer.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Finally! This is the fourth time I have headed into monday night either leading or with a chance to win the office pool. Once again I was sweating it out till the end. I had the Pats, and a total score of 40. I wasn't too worried about the points, but the damn broncos hung in there for the whole darn game. Where were these broncos last week, when I went out on a limb to pick them over the Ravens?

Had Kanell played the way he played tonight against the Ravens, Denver would have won the game.

That's the way it goes. Denver keeps finding ways to lose. Every week is something different. I firmly believe this team is a far better outfit than the KC Chiefs. They've been beat up with 2LB's, 2QB's, and 2WR's hurt. Tonight Elam's injury was another huge factor in the loss. It doesn't matter what I feel. Denver is 4 games behind the Chiefs with no chance to catch them.

I'm hoping and praying that if they do go to the playoffs, their second round game is at Arrowhead. I don't think we can go into Indy or Tennessee and win.

TroyF

[Balldog]

What was Shanahan doing passing the ball 3 straight plays with 3:00 minutes left? Especially on 3rd and 5, when it was pretty much 4 down territory and Portis was getting 4-6 yards a play.

Oh well, works for me! Go Pats!

[lytic]

Originally posted by TroyF
Had Kanell played the way he played tonight against the Ravens, Denver would have won the game.

That's the way it goes. Denver keeps finding ways to lose. Every week is something different. I firmly believe this team is a far better outfit than the KC Chiefs. They've been beat up with 2LB's, 2QB's, and 2WR's hurt. Tonight Elam's injury was another huge factor in the loss. It doesn't matter what I feel. Denver is 4 games behind the Chiefs with no chance to catch them.

I'm hoping and praying that if they do go to the playoffs, their second round game is at Arrowhead. I don't think we can go into Indy or Tennessee and win.

TroyF

The Pats have had their injuries too... yet they continue to win.

[FrogMan]

Woohoo!!! GO Pats!!! As lytic said, the Pats had more than their share of injuries this season, as was showed on the graphic presented during the game. They have started what, 42 different players this season, and yet, they are 7-2...

Just yesterday, Richard Serymour wasn't playing. Earlier in the week, Troy Brown was doubtful and wasn't seen too much during the game. There is just something in how Belichick gets everyone involved during most of all games that make them all ready to take over a starting spot... I like what they are doing right now, it's ugly, but it works :)

FM

[TroyF]

Originally posted by lytic
The Pats have had their injuries too... yet they continue to win.

Yeah, they have and I'm not taking anything away from that. Yet they haven't had their top two QB's go down either. They did during their Super Bowl year and found magic. Usually that doesn't happen.

TroyF

[lytic]

No, but if you saw during the game, the Pats have had to most number of starters this season. Also, in 2000 Tom Brady was the 4th string QB, drafted in the 6th round.

Granted, you are on your 3rd QB, but it's Shanahan who decided cut Kanell right before the season started. He could have been getting reps with the team if he decided to keep depth at that position. The more reps he gets, the better he looks. I bet he never makes that mistake again.

It's tough to deal with injuries... but quality in depth and outstanding coaching is something both teams (NE and Den) have. Denver still looks like a Wild Card team to me.

[bigjdotcom01]

Damn the Patriots to hell!!! :D

This coming from a despondent Bills fan.

[lytic]

Not having Richard Seymour is the only reason Clinton Portis ran over 100 yards...

[lytic]

Originally posted by bigjdotcom01
Damn the Patriots to hell!!! :D

This coming from a despondent Bills fan.

Be happy knowing that you may be the only team to really "BEAT" the Pats this year. The Redskins game was basically a fluke...

[TroyF]

Originally posted by lytic
Be happy knowing that you may be the only team to really "BEAT" the Pats this year. The Redskins game was basically a fluke...

No doubt about that. The Pats have had their share of flukey wins this year too. Mare missing two gimmees?

You should have nothing to complain about. :)

TroyF

[lytic]

Originally posted by TroyF
No doubt about that. The Pats have had their share of flukey wins this year too. Mare missing two gimmees?

You should have nothing to complain about. :)

TroyF

bah... it was in the dirt! You try kicking in the dirt! You can't get the same lift.
The reason the Pats won that is because the Marlins were in the World Series (and the Red Sox weren't).

[FrogMan]

It's all Steve Bartman's fault, didn't you get the memo? :D

FM

[TroyF]

Originally posted by lytic
bah... it was in the dirt! You try kicking in the dirt! You can't get the same lift.
The reason the Pats won that is because the Marlins were in the World Series (and the Red Sox weren't).

LOL. Kicks are made from the dirt every week. It was a flukey win. You got it. Deal with it. :)

TroyF

[FrogMan]

you know, I can deal with a win just fine, ugly or not :D

That 9-6 win last week wasn't cute either, but a W is a W, and I'm happy. Okay, have I used all the clichés in the book now? ;)

FM

[TroyF]

Originally posted by FrogMan
you know, I can deal with a win just fine, ugly or not :D

That 9-6 win last week wasn't cute either, but a W is a W, and I'm happy. Okay, have I used all the clichés in the book now? ;)

FM

You should be happy. You have an overacheiving team who is winning games off of guts, heart and some well time lucky breaks.

I'm cheering for an underachieving team that finds ways to lose every week.

If I had ONE game to play and could eliminate the X-factors? I'd say Denver wins 8 out of 10 times. The X-factors do come into play though. . . so the game would always be a toss up like it was last night.

TroyF

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by TroyF
You should be happy. You have an overacheiving team who is winning games off of guts, heart and some well time lucky breaks.


You know, you just described the 2001 Patriots as well... You sort of forgot to mention "well coached" in the mix though...

FM

[TroyF]

Originally posted by FrogMan
You know, you just described the 2001 Patriots as well... You sort of forgot to mention "well coached" in the mix though...

FM

Yup, you can add that one to the mix as well.

TroyF

[lytic]

To me it looked like the Refs were trying to give the game to the Broncos... I wouldn't say that Pats are also "overachieving" so much. In most Pre-season polls and predictions, many people had picked the Pats to at least to make the playoffs, many had them going to the SuperBowl, some had them winning it.
Granted, pre-season polls and predictions are mostly garbage.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by lytic
To me it looked like the Refs were trying to give the game to the Broncos... I wouldn't say that Pats are also "overachieving" so much. In most Pre-season polls and predictions, many people had picked the Pats to at least to make the playoffs, many had them going to the SuperBowl, some had them winning it.
Granted, pre-season polls and predictions are mostly garbage.

There is no way those pre season pollsters would have thought the Pats could have suffered that many injuries on defense and still thought they would win the Super Bowl. They are overachieving big time.

As for the refs, you and others have made points about bad calls against the Patriots. There were many against Denver. Pryce was held EVERY play of the final drive. That isn't the refs trying to give the game to the Broncos. You can say it was even if you like, but there was not a Bronco ADVANTAGE either.

TroyF

[Ksyrup]

I thought both coaches did an excellent job of game-planning. I thought Shanahan used Kanell perfectly - it's just that it seemed like they only had 3 passing plays for him to run, and you can only go to the well so often on those underneath crossing patterns, and they weren't able to make the 1st down when they needed it.

Kanell hasn't killed the team, despite getting thrown to the wolves against 2 very good defenses in his 2 starts. If he had started against the Vikings, I think he would have done very well for the entire game, not just the portion he played.

[lytic]

I predict the Pats won't lose this week.

[BishopMVP]

I'd have to say that the Patriots MVP this season has been Scott Pioli. I think the Patriots are the deepest team in football, and for such a young and cap-friendly team that is saying something.

Also, is Richard Seymour the best Defensive Lineman in football? It's not like I really follow that position too much (you can't really tell with D-Lineman unless you actually watch the game instead of highlights) but he has been dominating for the Patriots.

I can't wait to see the defense next weekend when Seymour will be back, Ted Washington and maybe Ted Johnson as well as players like Ty Law being healthy again.

[Alan T]

Seymour has been huge, and Pats fans are starting to see why the Pats drafted him in the first round.. Now all the fans who were up in arms that they picked Seymour over Terrell look foolish...


With that said, Seymour still has a bit to go to become the best Defensive lineman in football.. but he has been a huge part of the Pats success, and they missed him in there vs Denver... but I have felt the Patriot's defense have the schemes to thank for their success over any one player, despite how good Seymour or Rodney Harrison or others have been.

[lytic]

Now it's time for Graham to show why he was a 1st round draft pick...

[FrogMan]

Ronnie, I couldn't agree more with you. Amazing draft indeed! and a potentially better one next season...

Agreed Samuel and Wilson are playing well in the secondary. If Bethel Johnson can hang onto the ball, with his amazing speed, he will be something next season. Klecko, Klecko, man he is the all around dude... Good times indeed...

lytic, Graham has shown some good stuff the past two weeks. I think he is beginning to turn into the safety valve that Ben Coates was for Bledsoe in his prime...

FM

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Ronnie Dobbs2
Just a Pats point I wanted to make (which is not an original one, btw):

How about that draft they had in April?!?!?!?!!? Damn, I don't think I've seen a draft class (all of them) contribute so much to a team. They got unbelievable value in the Wilson and Samuel picks (what the hell has Neumann or Trufant done so far).

You are joking about Trufant, right? What has he done? Well, he had the game winning INT against the Bears. He's third on the Seahawks in tackles. He's tied for third in the NFL with 11 deflected passes. (your boy Wilson has 4)

Look, I like Wilson. I think he's one hell of a player. You just don't need to start bashing other guys to prove your guys are good. Trufant is one hell of a football player. Neumann has had a few more ups and downs than the other two guys, but he's shown he's a pretty good CB as well.

As for your draft, it was terrific. I think there are a few teams we can already grade with a high draft grade as of now.

The Colts have 3 full time starters and 2 other part time contributors with their first 5 picks.

The Seahawks have half of their starting secondary and their kicker for a team off to a 6-2 start.

Houston selected a franchise type WR in Johnson, a starting OLB in Peek and Dominick Davis, a guy that looks to be their future at RB.

New England has an edge because Baltimore panicked and gave up far too much for Boller. (it's all opinion now, if Boller becomes a star both teams win)

TroyF

[lytic]

Check out these stats:

http://flash.patriots.com/news/fullarticle.sps?id=26130&type=general

[BishopMVP]

Silver jerseys Sunday night and against Miami

http://proshop.patriots.com/index.cfm?ac=ViewProductDetail&PID=4371&CP=1

[alterra]

Talking smack at work ... coworker was trying to tell me Tom Brady was overrated ... I told him, name me 5 qbs you'd rather have. He couldn't do it. Anybody else want to try?

[TroyF]

Steve McNair
Daunte Culpepper
Michael Vick
Peyton Manning
Brett Farve
Chad Pennington
Marc Bulger
Patrick Ramsey

Now, before this starts a flame war that degenerates into "Manning can't win the big one" or "Farve sucks" let me say I'm not sure that anyone is better for the New England offense than Brady is. Still, like the New England team as a whole, he doesn't really do any one thing special.

His TD rate and INT rate are similar to Jeff Blake. His yards per pass attempt is comparable to David Carr. He's a good, solid NFL QB. In the two years he's won, he's had a defense that didn't give up points.

He's not overrated. If anything he's underrated. Yet I'd take any of the guys on the list above over Tom Brady. I realize only one of them has won a Super Bowl. That arguement doesn't wash with me. So has Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Kurt Warner. . . guys I'm sure you'd rip if I put on the list over Tom.

I don't think Brady leads a weak defensive team into the playoffs. I think the other guys can carry teams on their shoulders. This isn't a slam on Brady. New England is a very good football TEAM. They win because of that, not because Brady is a franchise QB. Lest you think my opinion is only based on numbers, Trent Green is superior to Tom in every single category this year. . . I'd take Tom over him anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

TroyF

[Aylmar]

Steve McNair - The guy is amazing.

Peyton Manning - I think Eli's going to be the better QB, but I won't insult anyone by putting a college player on this list.

Chad Pennington - The more I see of him, the more I like him.

Donovan McNabb - I like McNabb, what can I say? I think he's gotten some credit for the outstanding play of his defense, but so has Brady.

Michael Vick - Needs to keep improving...but I'll take his upside.

I don't think Brady is overrated or underrated. I haven't really heard anyone make a case for him being a top five NFL quarterback. He gets the attention that he deserves. Not a whole lot more or less, in my opinion.

It was tough not to put Culpepper up there, but you asked for five...so I just stopped after I met the requirements. :)

[alterra]

Steve McNair I'll concede. Brett Favre (who I consider the greatest qb of all time) five years ago, no question, these days - I don't think so. He's lost a lot. McNabb and Manning, maybe, but maybe not ... Vick, if he's healthy, which who knows if he will be, definitely. I guess I'm more comfortable defending him as top ten than top five, but either way, you CAN make the case.

[lytic]

So who wins? New England or Dallas?