Lakers vs. Spurs

[Neuqua]

I don't know if anyone else is watching this great game but I feel bad for the Spurs. Not only have these guys battled LA to double overtime without two of their best players (Tim Duncan and Tony Parker both injured), but it seems they are playing 5 on 6 with these referees. Officiating has been horrendous for atleast the last quarter and two overtimes (I didn't get to watch the game until the 4th quarter.) It's aggravating the heck out of me what Kobe and Shaq are getting away with!

/end rant.

[TroyF]

Haven't seen the game, I won't comment on it. Hey Brad will be very happy.

TroyF

[oykib]

Neuqua, that's nothing new with the NBA. Laker fan, Spurs fan, or whoever you are-- NBA officiating has been horrendous for as long as I can remember.

It's the only major sport that I can think of where it's clear that certain teams and players get and advantage in calls. Since calls=points, it puts your team at a disadvantage if the other team has bigger superstars or even the same level but they are on their home court. I find it ridiculous, and it's the reason I don't watch much NBA basketball anymore. Taht and the fact that my Knicks suck.

[Neuqua]

I'm as big of an NBA fan as there is on this board, and even I can't give any excuses for tonight. San Antonio played their hearts out, I don't particularly root for them but the way they played was so admirable.

I like how on Sportscenter they're mocking the referees as well for missing some of these calls.

I think I'm sick.

:(

Neuqua

[MrBug708]

You'll live Neuqua. Being a Laker hater is hazardous to your health

[tucker342]

Good win by LA!

5-0 is what I like to see

[Neuqua]

Did you watch the game Bug?

I don't dislike the Lakers as much as I dislike their fans :)

[JeeberD]

Lakers won? Crap...

[j51]

What I hate is the Lakers already get 98.2% of the calls, yet when just one questionable one goes against them they throw a tantrum. Kobe "Who, me?" Bryant gets on my last nerve.

[Neuqua]

Originally posted by j51
Kobe "Who, me?" Bryant gets on my last nerve.

That's the one reason I do not rate Kobe as highly as I do the other superstars. You don't see Tracy bitch like Kobe does, neither does Pierce. Kobe however, refuses to believe that a missed shot was because of him, he feels someone must have fouled him in order for a shot to not go in.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Neuqua
That's the one reason I do not rate Kobe as highly as I do the other superstars. You don't see Tracy bitch like Kobe does, neither does Pierce. Kobe however, refuses to believe that a missed shot was because of him, he feels someone must have fouled him in order for a shot to not go in.

I really hope that Kobe and Shaq have to split up so we can see that it was Shaq who was really winning it for them all these years and that Kobe's basically another Allen Iverson- great player, not really sure what a team is.

SI

[TroyF]

Originally posted by sterlingice
I really hope that Kobe and Shaq have to split up so we can see that it was Shaq who was really winning it for them all these years and that Kobe's basically another Allen Iverson- great player, not really sure what a team is.

SI

I wish they'd all make the decision to retire.

Shaq plays a game of basketball that is not fun to watch. The only thing worse than watching him use his patented shoulder drop and getting call after call from the refs is listening to him rationalize why he sucks from the foul line. "I make them when it counts" Well, moron, they count at every point in the game, not just when you think they do.

Kobe is one of my favorite players to watch. He's fantastic in the clutch and is as exciting as any player in the game. He's got an ego and an attitude that I can't stand.

I hate Malone for many of the same reasons I hate Shaq. He can't even take a jump shot without kicking his foot out at another guy's knees.

Rick Fox is one of the cheapest, dirtiest players in the NBA.

I like Luke Walton. I like Gary Payton, though he's got a big head as well. I think Phil is one hell of a coach.

Lastly, I despise the fact that the Lakers get more calls than any team in the league. Every year, you know the refs will give them at least one game in the series. Two years ago it was game 6 against the Kings. Last year they tried to do it in game 3 against the T-Wolves. When that failed, they made sure they went to the line 40+ times in the first two games in LA during the San Antonio series.

As Oyk said, you know going into a game with the Lakers, you are trailing before the game ever starts.

The thing that REALLY infuriates me? When the superstar calls start filtering down to the Derick Fisher's of the world. When they are allowed to push off and charge with impunity, something is very wrong.

I only saw some highlights of tonights game. Nothing surprised me. Shaq pushing off for an offensive board? What else is new? Kobe taking 5 steps into the lane? Malone flopping and getting a charge call? Fisher pushing off for the game tying two?

Where is the shock in any of it anymore? I'm 100% positive ESPN didn't highlight the missed calls against the Spurs. I'm also 100% positive there were missed calls against the Spurs. Add another 100% positive that the one or two times the Lakers don't get the calls this year will not be highlighted on ESPN.

That doesn't excuse the continued blown "obvious" calls that the refs give the Lakers on a consistent basis.

TroyF

[PsychoCop]

Nice win by L.A.!

Hope Malone wins that title.

[Sweed]

Ah, San Antonio 44 freethrow attempts LA 37 shall I go on?

Traveling is nothing new in the NBA, Ginobili did more than his share on drives down the lane.

Shaq does turn his shoulder no doubt but you can't fault him for being big and strong. I believe the ref has to decide if it is a normal BB move or an attempt to dislodge like anyone else. If Shaq turned his shoulder as hard as Rose was ducking into Malone last night the opponent would have been in row 7 but when Rose did it it was a foul on Malone.

Does the officiating suck? Of course the problem is that there is no consistency. One time it's a foul the next time it's not and when we bitch about it we all bring our own biases. Oh, yeah that reminds me, nice win LA:)

[QuikSand]

Hmmmm... this is the N-B-A, right? And it's November?

Just checking.

[Subby]

Yeah, but dd you see that triple-double Arenas dropped on the Mavs?! :)

[Ksyrup]

I'm happily oblivious to what you guys are talking about.

[mckerney]

Double overtime and Shaq is called for 3 fouls. The man commits at least three fouls by halftime every game.

[primelord]

Originally posted by oykib
It's the only major sport that I can think of where it's clear that certain teams and players get and advantage in calls.

You must not watch much hockey.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by primelord
You must not watch much hockey.

I think the refs in hockey do pretty well. Obviously no one is going to be perfect and there will always be the Kerry Frasers of the world, but on the whole, it's not too bad especially for something as subjective as it is. It's the same problem with things like pass interference or holding in football- you can call these on any play but they refs basically choose when the flags come out. And baseball, of course, has their strike zones where Maddux, Pedro, Schilling, Johnson, Yankees, et al get their extra inches off the plate.

That said, the NBA is easily the worst officiated of the 4 major sports.

SI

[TroyF]

Originally posted by primelord
You must not watch much hockey.

Peter Forsberg gets as beat up as any "star" I see in any sport.

There is some of it in hockey, it doesn't get close to the NBA's level.

TroyF

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Sweed
Ah, San Antonio 44 freethrow attempts LA 37 shall I go on?

Traveling is nothing new in the NBA, Ginobili did more than his share on drives down the lane.

Shaq does turn his shoulder no doubt but you can't fault him for being big and strong. I believe the ref has to decide if it is a normal BB move or an attempt to dislodge like anyone else. If Shaq turned his shoulder as hard as Rose was ducking into Malone last night the opponent would have been in row 7 but when Rose did it it was a foul on Malone.

Does the officiating suck? Of course the problem is that there is no consistency. One time it's a foul the next time it's not and when we bitch about it we all bring our own biases. Oh, yeah that reminds me, nice win LA:)

Well, if the NBA would make the calls like they are in the book, NO CONTACT would be allowed if the defensive player had position. He has a right to that spot, period.

If they started making calls like they are in the book, there would be bitching and moaning and players fouling out left and right for about 3 months.

Then the players would adjust and you'd see scores like you used to see in the 80's, pre Detroit Piston basketball. Teams would average in the 100's again. Shooting % would go through the roof because the game would become about athleticism again instead of strength.

Lastly, good win for the Lakers? maybe. If I'm the Spurs, I'm laughing my ass off. The Lakers struggled to beat them without 40% of their starting lineup. A good chunk of thier points came in the paint after a ton of offensive rebounds. A lot of those rebounds don't exist if Duncan is in the game.

The Lakers and the Spurs will play close games even when everyone is there. The Lakers will turn it up. Yet I still think the biggest concern for anyone facing the Lakers in a 7 game series is hoping and praying they get a fair chance to beat them, nothing more.

TroyF

[Butter]

Has Karl Malone ever hit a clutch shot? That last second one he took was HORRENDOUS.

And hey, let's give it over to Kevin Willis to take a game-saving 3. GREAT IDEA!

[heybrad]

You all know my love of the Lakers so I'll try not to come off as too myopic on my reponses here.

While the Lakers won, they certainly didnt gain any advantage in the psychological department. San Antonio played great short handed, so I'm sure they're fairly happy with the outcome.

I only saw the 2 overtime periods so I cant speak to all of the calls, although Kobe clearly traveled on the 3 step play. Listening on the way home, the (admittedly local) announcers on the radio pointed out the FT descrepancy in favor of the Spurs and Michael Thompson went nuts on a foul on Deavon George saying he didnt touch anybody, so... I dont really know.

Whoever it was above the made the comment about Tracy McGrady not being a whiner apparantly missed his quotes a couple of days ago regarding the fact that he has sucked this year because of the zone and how the league should change the rules because he's not allowed to entertain people.

My final thoughts... its only the fifth game. I dont get really wrapped up in it until later in the season.

[Tigercat]

Originally posted by TroyF
Well, if the NBA would make the calls like they are in the book, NO CONTACT would be allowed if the defensive player had position. He has a right to that spot, period.


The problem is, thats not the way its called for 90% of the players 90% of the time. Lots of players can and do get away with the KIND of contact Shaq gets away with, the only difference is Shaq does it really well cause hes freakin strong.

NFL analogy, a WR is not suppose to push off to get to the ball, period. Yet on the majority of plays where a WR catches the ball while being at least decently covered, he will push off to some degree. How many great catches has Randy Moss made while using a push off manuever before going high? There are tons of sports examples where refs don't call by the book, when they don't do it on a regular basis you realize that there is a range of things allowed and you play with that. I don't think the refs like Shaq more than any other player, Shaq has just learned to play great within the games called, just like a player like Randy Moss does. You shouldn't hate on a player because of that.

Hell look at the NFL again for the no calls on holding during the running game. The best run blocking OL in the NFL could be trashed on for breaking the holding rules the majority of the time, but he too is playing within the officiating of the game.

[mckerney]

The Moss analogy doesn't hold up too well. Moss has gotten more offensive pass interference that anyone else I've seen in the league over the last few years, Shaq continues to get called for only 3 or 4 fouls a game.

And as far as the FT descrepency, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Lakers didn't have an advantage, you can't just look at the number of calls. For example, lets say that one team got called for 21 fouls, though actually commited 35, while another team got called for 17 and actually commited 21. One team definately had an advantage in such a situation, even though they happned to get called for more fouls.

No, I can't say this was the situation last night as I only saw a few minutes of the game, but if it was anything like most the games I've watched the Lakers play in, the Spurs were at a disadvanted beyond two starters not playing.

[MrBug708]

The problem is, thats not the way its called for 90% of the players 90% of the time. Lots of players can and do get away with the KIND of contact Shaq gets away with, the only difference is Shaq does it really well cause hes freakin strong.


Why is this always a one way street? Everyone says that Shaq fouls people more then anyone else. Guess who is the most fouled person? Yet no one every mentions that


Lastly, good win for the Lakers? maybe. If I'm the Spurs, I'm laughing my ass off. The Lakers struggled to beat them without 40% of their starting lineup.

Devils' Advocate again. A team beats a Shaq-less Lakers by 8 and everyone says that the Lakers are overated. No one every mentions the fact that the Lakers are down an all-star.



But, at the end of the day, it gives the Laker haters something to talk about and I seriously doubt the Lakers win less then 70 games this year. Anything less, I'm disappointed

[Butter]

Originally posted by MrBug708
But, at the end of the day, it gives the Laker haters something to talk about and I seriously doubt the Lakers win less then 70 games this year. Anything less, I'm disappointed

Keep giving it to Karl Malone in the clutch and you'll lose about 30 games.

[Sweed]

Originally posted by TroyF
Well, if the NBA would make the calls like they are in the book, NO CONTACT would be allowed if the defensive player had position. He has a right to that spot, period.

If they started making calls like they are in the book, there would be bitching and moaning and players fouling out left and right for about 3 months.

Then the players would adjust and you'd see scores like you used to see in the 80's, pre Detroit Piston basketball. Teams would average in the 100's again. Shooting % would go through the roof because the game would become about athleticism again instead of strength.

Lastly, good win for the Lakers? maybe. If I'm the Spurs, I'm laughing my ass off. The Lakers struggled to beat them without 40% of their starting lineup. A good chunk of thier points came in the paint after a ton of offensive rebounds. A lot of those rebounds don't exist if Duncan is in the game.

The Lakers and the Spurs will play close games even when everyone is there. The Lakers will turn it up. Yet I still think the biggest concern for anyone facing the Lakers in a 7 game series is hoping and praying they get a fair chance to beat them, nothing more.

TroyF

With regard to the defensive player having a right to the spot on the floor I couldn't agree more but... tell it to the whole league not just Shaq. Like I said you can't let Rose or anyone else do it and then say Shaq can't. I guess the point is they don't call it that way so what's fair for one is fair for all.

I do agree that they should go back to the way they used to call a game. Hell, I'd like to see them call travelling. We live in a world where a high school player can't get away it why should professionals need too? Scoring and entertainment overall would be up and so would the leagues popularity. I don't think it would take three months for the players to adjust. Once they knew this is the way it was going to be the adjustment would be complete by the end of camp and pre-season. The trouble is it would have to be consistent and like baseball trying to bring back the "real" strikezone it ain't going to happen.

A win is a win it's that simple. If the Lakers win homecourt in the playoffs by one game I would say this was as a big one as any of them will be. I think I remember last year when Shaq was out with the toe and San Antonio won that was still a big win for them.

Now at I admitt I bring in my own biases so maybe my opinion is colored a little but I don't see a league conspiricy to get the Lakers in every year. Like everything else for each example you give I can give one back. I'll just go back to last year and game one of the western finals with the Spurs. Close game and Shaq gets called for his 6th foul with like 6 or 8 minutes left in the game. Not for running someone over or hacking someone going to the hoop but for an over the back that may or may not have even been a brush foul. A foul you almost never see called unless it's very obvious and certainly the nba isn't known for being quick to call the 6th on superstars in playoff games.

I can make an argument that there is a bias against the Lakers in the early games of a series. They are the team that drives to the hoop or takes the ball inside and yet their jumpshooting opponent in the first game usually shoots more freethrows than the Lakers and ususally by a wide margine. IMO the league figuring the Lakers can come back and win anyway tries to keep the other team in the series early so they get more gate and tv money. Once they get a few more dollars than the hacks inside that weren't called the first game or two become fouls and the team that actually attacks the basket can get to the line. Before you jump on this theory it really makes just as much sense as the pro Laker one that others talk about and probably sounds just as foolish.

This of course can go on and on. Let's look at the Moss example you say doesn't hold up because "Moss has gotten more offensive pass interference that anyone else I've seen in the league over the last few years" and your foul analogy. What if Moss has been called for offensive interference the most (not that it has been establised other that opinion) and that was 5 times a year but using your analogy he actually pushed off 30 times a year but it wasn't called? Seems to me that though he got tagged the most for it he still had the advantage since he got away with the most (again just an example using your opinion not fact).

[mckerney]

Moss get called more, but he doesn't push off more than any other reciever.

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by mckerney
Moss get called more, but he doesn't push off more than any other reciever.


I wish I had enough time to watch every game:D

[mckerney]

And I wish Kevin Garnett was as pampered by the officials as Shaq is. :)

Shaq's the only player I've ever seen that can foul another player and have it called on them.

[TroyF]

With regard to the defensive player having a right to the spot on the floor I couldn't agree more but... tell it to the whole league not just Shaq. Like I said you can't let Rose or anyone else do it and then say Shaq can't. I guess the point is they don't call it that way so what's fair for one is fair for all.

I'm not saying that Rose shouldn't get called. I'm saying it should be equal and it isn't. I'm saying that the way they call the game hurts their product.

I also realize Shaq gets fouled as much as anyone in the league. Don't worry, he goes to the line 5 million times a year because of it. There isn't any doubt he gets far more calls than he does not.

As for the "early games" in a series, it's an arguement I don't buy all that much. The T-Wolves may be a jump shooting team for example, but in last year's game two against the Lakers they took it to the hole all the time. Troy Hudson became a nightmare for them because he changed up from his usual 35 foot jumpers and took DF off the dribble all night.

The Lakers adjusted later in the series and Hudson stopped going to the line.

Either way, your point about the NBA making sure another team can hang with the Lakers speaks to exactly what most of us are talking about. The refs are "managing" the games. That's not what their job should be and it's taking away from the product on the floor.

TroyF

[TroyF]

DOLA here:

WR do push off. DB's get away with some contact on occasion. The main difference between the two leagues is that when a penalty is called different from the rule book in the NFL, it usually creates for a more exciting game.

When the NBA does it, it creates "thug ball" where the stars walk down the court and shove their way backwards into the paint for fouls.

TroyF

[MrBug708]

Troy, when the league has a defense know as Hack-a-Shaq, why do u think he goes to the line? They should be flagrant fouls since it's an intentional foul.

McKerny, yolu dont see Shaq throwing the ball into the crowd

[TroyF]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Troy, when the league has a defense know as Hack-a-Shaq, why do u think he goes to the line? They should be flagrant fouls since it's an intentional foul.

McKerny, yolu dont see Shaq throwing the ball into the crowd

They don't call intentional fouls ever. At the end of a game, you are supposed to get 2 foul shots and the ball anytime there is an intentional foul. How many times a year do you see it called league wide? Three? four?

Bowen had the same thing happen to him many times last year. The Mavs and Nets used the hack a Bowen in the playoffs.

TroyF

[mckerney]

And I don't see Garnett taking swings at anyone.

Shaq-fu what? ;)

[MrBug708]

If your slow enough to get hit by Shaq, you almost deserve to be hit


Almost

[Tigercat]

Originally posted by MrBug708
I wish I had enough time to watch every game:D

See I guess my Moss analogy is a bit old. I haven't seen Moss play much over the past few years. But when he first came into the league, it seems like he was pushing off like crazy with minimal calls. And he may not push of more than most, but its just seems like when he does, when he did it it waspretty obvious. That may be why he gets his share of the calls these days.

I still stand by the pushoff thing though. Another good example with that: Josh Reed when he was WR at LSU. His senior year when no one could cover him, the pushoff move was a big reason why. He just outmuscled the DBs and pushed them aside before running downfield wide open.

[Sweed]

Originally posted by TroyF
With regard to the defensive player having a right to the spot on the floor I couldn't agree more but... tell it to the whole league not just Shaq. Like I said you can't let Rose or anyone else do it and then say Shaq can't. I guess the point is they don't call it that way so what's fair for one is fair for all.

I'm not saying that Rose shouldn't get called. I'm saying it should be equal and it isn't. I'm saying that the way they call the game hurts their product.

I also realize Shaq gets fouled as much as anyone in the league. Don't worry, he goes to the line 5 million times a year because of it. There isn't any doubt he gets far more calls than he does not.

As for the "early games" in a series, it's an arguement I don't buy all that much. The T-Wolves may be a jump shooting team for example, but in last year's game two against the Lakers they took it to the hole all the time. Troy Hudson became a nightmare for them because he changed up from his usual 35 foot jumpers and took DF off the dribble all night.

The Lakers adjusted later in the series and Hudson stopped going to the line.

Either way, your point about the NBA making sure another team can hang with the Lakers speaks to exactly what most of us are talking about. The refs are "managing" the games. That's not what their job should be and it's taking away from the product on the floor.

TroyF

From my earlier post...

" I do agree that they should go back to the way they used to call a game. Hell, I'd like to see them call travelling. We live in a world where a high school player can't get away it why should professionals need too? Scoring and entertainment overall would be up and so would the leagues popularity."



So I agree that the way it is now they only hurt themselves. The opinion that the league isn't as popular as it was because Magic and Bird are gone to me is misleading. If the game was called today as back then the same excitement might still be there. Flashback to a guy like James Worth running the floor, it's very hard to do today because someone will just grab you maybe for only a split second with no call and the chance for an exciting finish for the fans is ruined. Imagine the league today with Kobe, Carter, McGrady, etc running the floor.


My point about keeping other teams with the Lakers early in a series is just to show that arguments can be made on both sides. I don't particularly buy either argument even though patterns can be seen for both and I'm not just talking about the T'Wolves last year. Perhpas it's nothing more than teams adjusting to each other as the series goes on. If the league really favored LA than SA wouldn't have made it last year there were plenty of opportunities to make sure LA would win, I go back to the 6th foul on Shaq with a lot of time remaining in game one. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong but Kobe carried the team the rest of the way and they still almost won. Didn't it go OT? Plenty of other opportunities there as well and then the nba gets the publicity of their "next MJ" pulling out the game with Shaq on the bench not to mention there is alot more money to be made with the Lakers in the finals instead of the Spurs. Of course maybe they just go smart and had SA win to throw everyone off the trail ;)

I think we can all agree that the refereeing is the worst in any proffesional sport in the US. I can't say about the world I don't watch soccer. The trouble is I don't think anyone knows what is or isn't a foul anymore or why it's a foul now but 5 minutes ago it wasn't.

My son graduated from high school last spring and was the center on the basketball team. I'm afraid that this same type of play is all the way down to this level also. Too much pushing and shoving and not enough finnese, won't be long and it will be winter rugby:(

Anyway this thread will go on and on. I've said my piece and am now through, we can all go on believeing whatever we want to:)

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Neuqua
That's the one reason I do not rate Kobe as highly as I do the other superstars. You don't see Tracy bitch like Kobe does, neither does Pierce. Kobe however, refuses to believe that a missed shot was because of him, he feels someone must have fouled him in order for a shot to not go in.

So Jordan must not be one of the best players ever, then...

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by mckerney
And I don't see Garnett taking swings at anyone.

Shaq-fu what? ;)

I've never seen Shaq throw a ball at a fan...

[mckerney]

Originally posted by rexallllsc
I've never seen Shaq throw a ball at a fan...

Didn't MrBug already do that one? :confused:

[Neuqua]

Originally posted by rexallllsc
So Jordan must not be one of the best players ever, then...

Oh, please. I grew up watching the Bulls and MJ and Michael bitched during stoppages but not as often while the game was going on. If someone were shooting a free throw, or a timeout was called, he'd go over to the ref and plead his case but rarely would he shoot the ball, then pound his fist in the air that he didn't get a foul called.

As for the McGrady comment earlier, I don't care of Tracy whines off the court. If whining is necessary, I'd prefer it there. When I turn on a basketball game, I want to see the best players in the world playing the best game in the world. And that's what Tracy does. What he does off the court doesn't effect me because I plain choose not to read about it. Kobe on the other hand will miss a shot, and then look straight at the referee with a "Where's the whistle?!?" look. And then dear lord help the referee if he happens to call the foul on Kobe, whom believes he has never touched the offensive player in hsi career.

Michael would sometimes give a smile and a wink to the referee if a foul was called on him, and then sometimes get visibly upset if it were a high stress situation. In the case of Kobe, the score could be 20-18 Lakers in the first quarter and if a shot doesn't go in he'll be barking at the refs.

Kobe is one hell of a talent. Incredible talent, there's no question about it. I just want to see him play basketball, watching him play brings back memories of that old MJ here in Chicago. But he's got the same disease Jalen Rose of my Bulls has. He does not acknowledge that he committed a foul. Ever. Nor does he miss shots on his own, that' s just plain silly.

[rexallllsc]

Excuses, excuses...I saw Kobe miss a shot at the end of the first overtime last night, and he sure as $#! didn't look at the ref...

[haji1]

I hate how you can't ever have an NBA discussion without conspiracy theories and Shaq and Kob haters coming up. Can't we discuss the game for once and not all of the other crap?

As for the game, i thought it was awesome. Just two teams who refused to lose in a great atmposphere. It is too bad we won't have that kind of excitement until the Spurs come to LA. Otherwise the regular season just lacks any drama. Maybe LA and Sacremento with Chris Webber can generate some noise.

Sacremento vs Dallas could be exciting if it is 140-135. But as for a game that you see listed that you say to yourself, "Oh, I have to make sure to watch that tonight." There just aren't that many.

[Neuqua]

Originally posted by haji1
I hate how you can't ever have an NBA discussion without conspiracy theories and Shaq and Kob haters coming up. Can't we discuss the game for once and not all of the other crap?


As much as Bug would not like to admit, I have never been a "Shaq or Kobe" hater. I just love the game of basketball and strongly dislike the way the game's rules are being bended in favor of those select two so often.

Like I said above, I LOVE Kobe's game. He's so talented and does so many difficult things and makes it look effortless. The problem I have is what he's doing on a basketball court that does not involve basketball. He's a noticable distraction on the court to the view (minus LA fans) because he thinks he's so good that he never does anything wrong.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by haji1
I hate how you can't ever have an NBA discussion without conspiracy theories and Shaq and Kob haters coming up. Can't we discuss the game for once and not all of the other crap?

As for the game, i thought it was awesome. Just two teams who refused to lose in a great atmposphere. It is too bad we won't have that kind of excitement until the Spurs come to LA. Otherwise the regular season just lacks any drama. Maybe LA and Sacremento with Chris Webber can generate some noise.

Sacremento vs Dallas could be exciting if it is 140-135. But as for a game that you see listed that you say to yourself, "Oh, I have to make sure to watch that tonight." There just aren't that many.

Ahh, the good old days. Remember when the Hawks had the worst offense in the league and averaged 102 points per game? When the Lakers and Celtics had a 7 game series where they never managed under 100 points and had games of 129-125 and 124-121 that DIDN'T go into quadruple OT?

Wow. That's basketball. :)

I hope and pray that Dallas and the Kings make the western conference finals and then faces a team like Charlotte in the finals. When the NBA sees what their rating would be like for a series like that, maybe they'd make some changes. Pipe dream, I know. :(

TroyF

[heybrad]

Originally posted by TroyF
I hope and pray that Dallas and the Kings make the western conference finals and then faces a team like Charlotte in the finals. When the NBA sees what their rating would be like for a series like that, maybe they'd make some changes. Pipe dream, I know. :(

TroyF
So I'll take it that you dont consider defense to be a very important part of basketball because the word is completely foreign to Dallas.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by heybrad
So I'll take it that you dont consider defense to be a very important part of basketball because the word is completely foreign to Dallas.

It's only foreign because they play the way teams did in the early 80's. They play positional defense. Their defense if pretty much designed so they can get out and run. It's the way everyone used to play defense.

They are the rarity now because what "defense" is now consists of elbowing anyone taking a cut in the lane, grabbing onto people, and fighting for position in the lane (there used to be very little fighting, you got to the position first, it was yours, period. All of the GREAT centers in the 80's had outside games because of this, they couldn't just rely on dropping their shoulders and getting call after call).

Watch a Laker/Celtic game from 1982 and then watch a Dallas/Sacremento game now. The two are almost identical "styles" of basketball.

Again, what it comes down to is that basketball today is becoming a game of strength. In the 80's it was a game of athleticism and position. The shooting % and total scores reflect this.

TroyF