OT - Players curse coach, season cancelled

[JonInMiddleGA]

2-6 team cancels season (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/11/06/BAG7H2RGUG1.DTL)

[TroyF]

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle playing for a coach you don't respect.

They handled it the wrong way and deserve to suffer the consequences.

TroyF

[FBPro]

Agreed......

[Honolulu_Blue]

Huh. When I read the title of the thread, I thought it had something to do with voodoo, the black arts, or something cool like that, you know, sacrificing a live chicken, voodoo dools, that sort of thing, not a bunch of kids chanting the "F" word after they lose a game.

Too bad.

[Ksyrup]

Me too. I figured this was a Louisiana high school or something.

[waltwal]

i am somewhat familiar with the area and the school. in the 60's and 70's this was a good football program. but guess what years ago someone thought that school busing would be a good idea and this program went down the tubes as did most of the schools in what is a pretty affluent area.

one of the things that i would like to know is if the coach is a member of the teaching staff or a walk-on coach. in the bay area it has become fairly common for many athletic programs to be mainly staffed by walk-on coaches who have relatively little interaction with their athletes. the west bay area was a very strong area for athletics 30 years ago but the unbelievable surge in home prices in the entire area has made it an area that is extremely unfriendly to the teaching profession as a whole and this has undermined the entire public school system in the whole bay area.

recently i checked to see what were the top football programs in the area. in the top 10 -7 of the schools including all of the top 7 were private schools. this type of info generally gives you an idea of the success of the public school system in the area.

the entire west bay area and east to some extent has had an inordinate amount of problems this current season. i don't live in the area any longer but because i coached in the area i still follow the athletic results and there have been similiar problems over the entire area that for some reason seem to have reached a boiling point this season.

by the way in the east bay not too far away resides DE La Salle high school which is the best football program in the country. the last time i heard no one was cursing the coaches at that school.

as far as the action taken i am amazed that anyone can defend the actions of the players including their own parents but this is what happens over the course of 30 years as athletic programs and standards decline. eventually no one knows one another and inevitably mutual respect deteriorates and ultimately disappears and that is where this area is at present.

[grdawg]

I disagree with the overwelming sentiment so far. By canceling the season, they are teaching quiting to these kids. So a few kids said the f word at the coach, well that is what society has become these days, the F word is so common these days it doesn't really give a shock to hear it anymore, I guess i've become decensitized, but I'll use the word in daily languague and not think i'm doing anything wrong.
Why is cancelling the season the answer to this issue, obviously the coach hasn't done a good job with these kids, he's been there 3 years and obviously has little respect from his players. I think respect is a 2 way street, he needs to respect the kids also. You would expect after 3 years that he would have gotten some respect by now, I think he needs to take a little responsiblity as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally posted by grdawg
I disagree with the overwelming sentiment so far. By canceling the season, they are teaching quiting to these kids. So a few kids said the f word at the coach, well that is what society has become these days, the F word is so common these days it doesn't really give a shock to hear it anymore, I guess i've become decensitized, but I'll use the word in daily languague and not think i'm doing anything wrong.



You may not have thought of it as wrong, but after it having been explained to you as rude, impolite, and the very antithesis of football and teamwork, you should implicate either yourself or others, right?

Idiots are not defensible simply because their teens.

-Anxiety

[TroyF]

Originally posted by grdawg
I disagree with the overwelming sentiment so far. By canceling the season, they are teaching quiting to these kids. So a few kids said the f word at the coach, well that is what society has become these days, the F word is so common these days it doesn't really give a shock to hear it anymore, I guess i've become decensitized, but I'll use the word in daily languague and not think i'm doing anything wrong.
Why is cancelling the season the answer to this issue, obviously the coach hasn't done a good job with these kids, he's been there 3 years and obviously has little respect from his players. I think respect is a 2 way street, he needs to respect the kids also. You would expect after 3 years that he would have gotten some respect by now, I think he needs to take a little responsiblity as well.

No canceling the season isn't teaching them to quit, it's teaching them there are consequences for their actions.

I don't care if this were the worst coach in the history of sports. There are ways you deal with that. You talk to administrators. If that doesn't work, you go to the school board. You don't start a chant cussing out your coach.

These "kids" are old enough to know what they did isn't right. They were given the choice to implicate the parties involved and chose not to do so. They were told in advance what would happen if the offended parties didn't step up to the plate. Their silence sealed their punishment.

Do these kids think they are the only ones who have ever played for a horrible coach? Do they think they are the only kids to have a bad teacher? These kids and their parents need to get a grip on reality.

TroyF

[waltwal]

of course the coach should take some of the responsibility. what amazes me is the idea that the season was cancelled on the players. it was cancelled for everyone including the coaches. as i stated in the earlier post this event was the inevitable result of events that occurred a long time ago.

where does the idea of teaching quitting come from? this conclusion amazes me. i saw that in the newspaper article it was stated that kids on the team were stealing from one another. does it follow that if you catch a kid stealing and kick him off the team the result is that you are teaching him to quit. how about the concept of taking responsibility for your actions. is it possible that that may be what is taught here.

i am pretty sure that when these type of events occur on a team part of the problem lies with the coaching staff- no doubt about that. but if you could compare the coaching staffs that existed in this area 25+ years ago with what exists now with the preponderance of not only walk-on coaches but walk-on staffs you can see that these problems are inevitable. but the fact that the staff is poor does not excuse the actions of the players. how would you feel if you could see a videotape of this event and you saw your son on video chanting "fu coach" what do u say? well the coach is doing a poor job and he deserves that - i am proud that my son took up the chant! if you would say or think that i think we can see why the problem occurred.

[cthomer5000]

Sounds a bit like the climactic scene in All the Right Moves.

[Blackadar]

You've got to think that the coach of this team must be horrid and the blame should start there. After all, he should be the leader of the team. The simple fact that NO ONE would implicate anyone else is very telling - it goes to show how far the entire team had been alienated by the coaching staff.

If you noticed, they canceled the season after consulting with the coach. There's no way a decent coach would have let them cancel the season for something like that.

[waltwal]

blackadar

let me put it this way

i coached in that general area for 27 years. i saw the deterioration in athletic programs over that time for the reasons stated earlier. the deterioration certainly has continued in the 15 years i left coaching. in all 27 years i worked as a teacher in all the schools that i coached in. i knew the athletes that i coached in a classroom setting, i saw them every day in the off-season in our football weight-training class. i ran summer passing leagues and generally got to know the kids that i coached very well. although i was paid very little for coaching - never more than $1500 a year, in my mind i was a high school football coach. i took great pride in my profession.

now when you look at the present situation in that area it is very common for much of the coaching staff to show up at 3:00 after leaving their job as a carpenter or bricklayer or whatever. in many instances the head coach is not a part of the teaching staff and has very little contact with the players off the field. this is the type of situation in which things like this will happen. is the answer to say that the coach is horrid. to begin with i am not sure the coach is a coach but rather a person hired to handle the team. but does that excuse young men who are a year or two away from voting in our society. obviously it is simply not a case of blaming the players only- the coaches are also at fault. but i think if you could really analyze this situatuion there does not seem to be any other action to take other than what was taken. if the non-offending players have come forth and identified the players who were chanting then another action could have been taken. the idea that the players were not sure who was doing the chanting is plain and simple bs.

by the way if you think the action taken was wrong. how would you like to be the coach and then show up at practice monday as if nothing had happened. i know i would not want to be in that position.

[grdawg]

I applaud the kids for not ratting each other out. They showed alot there and if one of those kids was my kid, i'd be proud that they had the integrity not to rat a teammate out. It reminds me of the climatic scene in Scent of a Woman where Charlie refused to rat out his so called friends to get into the good college, similiar situation here, if you rat out your friends, we won't cancel the season.

I will admit however that thinking about it further, there is a level or respect one must show for people in authority and I guess in that sense, no matter how bad a coach is, he didn't deserve that, however I still don't think the actions demanded the cancellation of the season

[TroyF]

Originally posted by grdawg
I applaud the kids for not ratting each other out. They showed alot there and if one of those kids was my kid, i'd be proud that they had the integrity not to rat a teammate out. It reminds me of the climatic scene in Scent of a Woman where Charlie refused to rat out his so called friends to get into the good college, similiar situation here, if you rat out your friends, we won't cancel the season.

I will admit however that thinking about it further, there is a level or respect one must show for people in authority and I guess in that sense, no matter how bad a coach is, he didn't deserve that, however I still don't think the actions demanded the cancellation of the season

I always enjoy this sort of stuff.

It's OK not to rat someone out because you are on a team. Doesn't matter if what they did was wrong and deserved punishment.

Then we sit in stunned amazement at a friend protecting another one on a murder or rape charge. Oh, I know, it's the "degree" of wrong, right? BS.

If my son were one of the ones who knew who yelled it, I wouldn't be proud of him for not standing up. I wouldn't order him to do so. I wouldn't hold it over him for the rest of his life. I damned well wouldn't be proud of him.

If my kid were the one cussing out an authority figure? He wouldn't have to worry about the cancelation of the football season. By the time he was finished writing a long apology letter to the coach and doing extra work around the house, he'd be lucky to be ready for spring baseball.

The kids had the guts to cuss out their coach, why don't they have the guts to do it to his face? They are nothing more than cowards. No wonder they were 2-6.

TroyF

[BishopMVP]

Originally posted by TroyF
It's OK not to rat someone out because you are on a team. Doesn't matter if what they did was wrong and deserved punishment.

Then we sit in stunned amazement at a friend protecting another one on a murder or rape charge. Oh, I know, it's the "degree" of wrong, right? BS.

I don't know if it's different where you grew up, but in my high school being a "narc" real or perceived was the worst thing possible. They were treated with more ridicule and disdain than the "gay" kids. I'm not sure if this was contributed to or was an extension of the hatred for cops in my town, but that was the environment.

[Huckleberry]

I'm getting tired of agreeing with TroyF. It's really annoying.

I had a situation with my baseball coach my senior year. He suspended my friend and teammate from the last game of the year. My friend had taken issue with our coach's comments at the end of the previous game when he basically implied that we were losers. My friend was the only one that called him on it in front of the team.

The next Monday at practice my friend, the hardest worker and most serious guy at practice on the team (future Mets farmhand before a back injury ended his pro career), practiced like most of the other guys. He didn't bust his ass every second like he normally did. He went through the motions. No better and no worse than most of the guys out there. Right before the end of practice, coach suspended him from the last game. In the next 30 minutes while practice concluded with the normal game of "21 outs", I did a lot of thinking out in centerfield. There were a number of ways to handle the situation. Cussing at the coach was certainly an option.

Instead, I stood up in front of the varsity and JV teams as coach addressed us after the practice. I told him that what he had done was wrong and that (using his own words against him), family and friends come before baseball. That guy is my friend and a part of my family in a lot of ways. I can't let you just cut him and make him miss out on his last high school game. I won't be playing on Thursday either.

Hardest damn thing I ever did in my life. But I'm glad to this day that I did it. We went to the game together and pulled for our friends. A year later I went back to watch a game and after it was over the coach saw me and came over. Told me that if he had it to do all over again, he wouldn't have suspended my friend. We never said another word to each other about it, despite the fact that I go see my old school play every year. I've got a friend for life because I stuck up for him. And I didn't disrespect the coach in a cowardly manner and so we still respect each other. He made a bad decision and I let him know the only way I could.

These kids need to learn how to handle themselves and I hope this teaches them.

[Balldog]

When I was in school, I absolutely hated my basketball coach but it was his team and he was in charge.

Now as a baseball coach, I have kids that bitch and moan about not playing...even though they don't come to practice or skip games. I was actually called an asshole by one player last year, I then threw him out of the dugout and told him he can go out next year but he won't play because of shit like this.

Kids now a days, do not have any respect for people its almost disgusting. Its hard to believe I'm only 7 years removed from high school.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by BishopMVP
I don't know if it's different where you grew up, but in my high school being a "narc" real or perceived was the worst thing possible. They were treated with more ridicule and disdain than the "gay" kids. I'm not sure if this was contributed to or was an extension of the hatred for cops in my town, but that was the environment.

Yeah, that's the enviornment that festers around most high schools. I understand the team bonding thing. I've been on teams and I've kept my mouth shut in situations I shouldn't have.

It's not something I'm "proud" of. Thankfully a chance presented itself later on in my "athletic" career to step up to the plate and be a man. If inappropriate action takes place, it's up to one of the leaders of the team to step up and take control. Stand up like Huck did in his situation to go to bat for a teammate. Or have the guts to call the coach out in front of the team after other avenues have been exhausted, but to do it in an appropriate manner.

Of course, I'd also expect a team leader to stand up after multiple people have been suspended for stealing and cutting class too. That's when the leader calls a team meeting and tells people to get their acts together.

There are no leaders on this team. These guys are nothing more than theives, backstabbers and crybabies. I'd be ashamed to be on a team like that. Hopefully the younger guys think about what went on this summer and learn their lesson.

Huck,

Sorry, I'll try to get back to being wrong all of the time shortly. :)

TroyF

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by TroyF
... to do it in an appropriate manner.

And there's the part that makes it tough for me to criticize the players in this case.

I'm not there. I don't know this coach.

Maybe he is an utter p.o.s. who deserves to be mocked or worse.
Maybe they were trying to set him off.
Maybe the kids are just punks with no class.

I've known plenty of crappy kids. But I've also run across my fair share of coaches who shouldn't be allowed in a stadium without buying a ticket.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

But without knowing which maybe it is, I'm gonna reserve judgement until later (if ever).

[TroyF]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
And there's the part that makes it tough for me to criticize the players in this case.

I'm not there. I don't know this coach.

Maybe he is an utter p.o.s. who deserves to be mocked or worse.
Maybe they were trying to set him off.
Maybe the kids are just punks with no class.

I've known plenty of crappy kids. But I've also run across my fair share of coaches who shouldn't be allowed in a stadium without buying a ticket.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

But without knowing which maybe it is, I'm gonna reserve judgement until later (if ever).

Jon,

I don't care how bad this coach is, there are other alternatives. You can go to the athletic director (I'm still baffled at how many H.S. have those now) They can go to the school board. The school board isn't going to like seeing 30 sets of parents at their door talking about how horrible the coach is.

Hell, they can go to the local media and complain there.

No matter what the coach did (and clearly, I think this coach probably has some serious issues) you don't start a chant cussing him out at the end of a game.

I can't think of a single situation where that is "appropriate" behavior.

TroyF

[JonInMiddleGA]

Troy

Not sure I'd have much confidence in the AD route, since it's likely that he/she was involved in selecting a bad coach in the first place
(BTW, I've never known of a HS that didn't have an AD, even the very very smallest. Must be one of those regional differences or something)

School board? Most of the time (AFAIK) they're ultimately responsible for the hiring of bad coaches. And if there was adequate parental involvement in the first place, the board would already be aware of problems before 30 sets of parents showed up en masse.

The media option is situational, some places there's HS coverage, other places there's none. Which case this would be, I have no idea.

Ultimately, I'm not suggesting that chanting obscenities at a coach is a perfect option by any stretch of the imagination. What I'm getting at is that I can certainly see where situations lead to such a thing happening, frustrations can & do boil over. Hell, I've nearly seen something like that happen with bad bosses in an office, so having it happen with teenagers isn't really shocking to me.

[Abe Sargent]

Is it just me or has there been a spate of bad character by football players and coaches at all levels this year? Sapp, Winslow, these kids, Shockey, Price, etc.

-Anxiety