Anyone else too sucked into the CM demo to try FOF2004? [Archive]

Glengoyne

11-11-2003, 01:50 PM

I somehow avoided buying CM4, eventhough the demo really sucked me in. I know so little about football, I call it soccer. I downloaded the CM03/04 demo last week, and can't stop. Last night I looked at an option screen, and noted that the game actually tracks my played time. It listed my addiction rating as something along the lines of "I need to remind you to change your underwear".

I haven't even downloaded the new fof demo yet. Anyone know when CM03/04 will be released? I know it will especially suck for me, because it will probably be a good while before I will be able to order it in the US.

FrogMan

11-11-2003, 01:53 PM

available on November 21st, and you can preorder from gameplay.com and they deliver in the US... Don't know if anybody will recommend gameplay or not, can't remeber what everybody said the last time around...

FM

McSweeny

11-11-2003, 01:56 PM

i think gogamer.com did a pretty good job with the last version of CM. Good price, good delivery time

dolfin

11-11-2003, 02:06 PM

I also have been completely consumed by the new demo, the game is outstanding. I have to say, its the best crash course for learning football that I have ever seen (not that I ever wanted to learn about it).

FBPro

11-11-2003, 02:34 PM

Naw, FOF has me....really don't understand all the "player moves, etc" so does nothing for me.

Bonegavel

11-11-2003, 03:19 PM

I thought that SIGames lost the rights to the CM name? Didn't Eidos push Marc out the door?

sabotai

11-11-2003, 03:23 PM

THis is last version of the game with the name Championship Manager (EIDOS gets the name, SI Games gets the engine). AFTER this one, they go their seperate ways.

Bonegavel

11-11-2003, 03:25 PM

ahh, nice. Thanks. Should be interesting to see how this shakes out and find out who wins in the end. :D

akw4572

11-11-2003, 04:00 PM

where would one find the championship manager demo?

Cringer

11-11-2003, 04:00 PM

Kick thier ass Marc!! or is it arse? :D

Fonzie

11-11-2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by akw4572
where would one find the championship manager demo?

www.sigames.com (http://www.sigames.com/)

Fonzie

11-11-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by McSweeny
i think gogamer.com did a pretty good job with the last version of CM. Good price, good delivery time

Dola-

I'd second gogamer.com.

SirFozzie

11-11-2003, 04:08 PM

I just ordered it with signed delivery and everything, so I get it as close to the 21st as possible. Got a special deal through SIGames website, and got it for 33.40 pounds (about 52-53 dollars, If I did my math right)

I ahte the fact that all the MLS players are gone.. but it IS CM :)

yabanci

11-11-2003, 04:10 PM

I've never had an interest in that type of football either, but I was tempted to try the demo. Then the new patch for TCY came out and I started a new career so I would have fresh draft files when FOF2004 comes out. After reading this I'm thinking about trying the CM demo again though.

Can anyone tell me does CM include real players in teams, like the Turkish and Brazilian teams? Also, what is the shipping situation -- how much and how long? Too bad they don't have online distribution, because then I'm sure I would buy it.

illinifan999

11-11-2003, 04:11 PM

If anyone could buy two, I'd be happy to pay for the added shipping, and of course the game itself?

Mom has a phobia of CC number on the internet, and won't let me use the CC over the phone. I used it for CM 02/03 and CM4, but she said it was the last time, so I'm gonna need another way to get it.

illinifan999

11-11-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by yabanci
I've never had an interest in that type of football either, but I was tempted to try the demo. Then the new patch for TCY came out and I started a new career so I would have fresh draft files when FOF2004 comes out. After reading this I'm thinking about trying the CM demo again though.

Can anyone tell me does CM include real players in teams, like the Turkish and Brazilian teams? Also, what is the shipping situation -- how much and how long? Too bad they don't have online distribution, because then I'm sure I would buy it.

I know the last versioins have had real players, so I don't know why this one would be any different, except for the US situation.

Neuqua

11-11-2003, 04:12 PM

Har har har, I knew you would come around Foz :)

SirFozzie

11-11-2003, 04:40 PM

shut up Neuq ;)

seriously.. Eidos better enjoy the money it gets from me for 03/04, because it will be the last it sees from me. The good thing, CM is the only Eidos game worth anything to me anyway. Tomb Raider, Overrated and dying as a franchise. truth be told, that's the only game of theirs I can think of

And yet they have the gall to call the one after this (with a brand new engine, even) CM 5?

It is to laugh, as the old saying goes.

illinifan999

11-11-2003, 04:45 PM

Is it supposed to have the screen black?

I installed it, loaded it up, and it opens it, but all i can see is my little mouse clicker thing. Otherwise the screen just stays black???

JeeberD

11-11-2003, 04:49 PM

Aw hell, I'll give the demo a shot. Doubt I'll like it since I don't know much about soccer, but I'll give it a go...

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by illinifan999
Is it supposed to have the screen black?

I installed it, loaded it up, and it opens it, but all i can see is my little mouse clicker thing. Otherwise the screen just stays black???

Disengage any anti-virus software you are running.

Also, you have a PM.

illinifan999

11-11-2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
Disengage any anti-virus software you are running.

Also, you have a PM.

I don't think I have any anti-virus software....

Got it and replying.

Edit: I'm just going to try to reinstall it.

TroyF

11-11-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Bonegavel
ahh, nice. Thanks. Should be interesting to see how this shakes out and find out who wins in the end. :D

I think it is a fairly safe prediction to say that EDIOS will get their asses kicked pretty badly. To win any money betteing for SI, you'd have to lay down about 2,000 dollars to win a buck.

TroyF

Edit: BIG OOPS

SirFozzie

11-11-2003, 04:55 PM

You mean that folks will prefer "Championship Manager 5" by Eidos over whatever the folks at SI title their next game?

can I get in on that action? I'll put down a couple hundred on SI.

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 04:56 PM

Nah, I think it's just a typo. (since the 2nd sentence contradicts the first). I think he meant "Eidos will get their asses kciked handily".

SirFozzie

11-11-2003, 05:02 PM

Guess it could be read both ways.

Eidos is betting on name recognition, keeping the name Championship Manager. But, most of the folks who know the game, know who really makes it.

Godzilla Blitz

11-11-2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by TroyF
I think it is a fairly safe prediction to say that SI will get their asses kicked pretty badly. To win any money betteing for SI, you'd have to lay down about 2,000 dollars to win a buck.

TroyF

I would think SI Games must be busy trying to line up another distributor. With their track record, I would think they will have a number of suitors.

I do think, however, that the first version of Championship Manager by Eidos might blow SI's doors off. The Championship Manager name will sell oodles of copies to customers that don't know about the split. Eidos will be able to fool people once with a mediocre/poor game wrapped up in the CM name, but not twice. By the second version customers will have figured things out and have found their way back to SI Games' version. Also, I would think a fairly high percentage of SI customers will know about the split and may never consider CM 5 from Eidos.

The whole scenario will provide an interesting case study in "name recognition" versus "quality".

Icy

11-11-2003, 05:46 PM

For first time in my life i'm more excited about other games than about CM. I have been playing the CM series since the 1993 Italy CM and it made me to love the text sime games. The last CM in the other hand was a big dissapoint for me, i expected it to be "the CM i allways dreamed about" but i had to start toins of dynasties because the patches, so i culdn't get attached toi any team so i finally deleted it and installed CM01/02, the best one until now. At same time i looked for other text sims and discovered TCY, FOF, EHM, OOTP, FBB, etc. Of course not any other game is as deep as CM, you really feel that you're managing a real rooster with their own personality not just stats. But this year i have downloaded the demo, played 2 matches, liked it but returned to TCY. Why? it is really better than CM4, but for me the 2D wasa big dissapoint, i know the effort that the sigames team have put on it, but for me it only represent the kind of football that is played on the lowest spanish division, it's really sad to watch my loved Real Madrid to just play long passes and then header<->header betwen both team defenses, it needs to be polished a lot, the AI looks bad if you're a regular soccer fan (it has been improved since CM4, but still not enought). I hope the next sigames game without the pressure from EIDOS will be much better on this, i really trust Mark and his guys and i know that they could have done a much better game without the EIDOS presure to release the game full of bugs.

Another reason is that mybe i'm loosing my interest on soccer after having it around me since i was a kid, soccer is "the sport" in Spain, latelly i'm watching more usa football than soccer at TV, i really love the mix of strategy and power contact of football, my only problem is that i haven't anybody in my city that knows anything about the NFL so i need to come to international forums to talk about it :)

Anyway i will buy it and will get hooked for sure, the management part is the best around, really inmersive, you get really atached to your rooster, fans, etc, but the tactics and match representation must be improved a lot, at least as i don't like the 2D AI, i hope they have improved the text pbp to put it at same level than the old versions, the text pbp on CM4 was really poor. Reading the text pbp i can use my imagination and think on my team playing like i wanted as coach, i think that the 2D dissapointed a lot of old CM fans as it showed us that mybe the great match engine that we supossed was not there, but we couldn't know it untill we saw it at the 2D representation. As my knowledge about usa sports is much less than my knowledge of soccer, i can't find a bad AI as easy as i could on soccer so i don't feel as disapointed.

Franklin

11-11-2003, 05:51 PM

Stupid demo question...

I saw somewhere that the demo was fully functional for 6 months. Is that real time, or game time?

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 05:57 PM

Game time.

Icy

11-11-2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Franklin
Stupid demo question...

I saw somewhere that the demo was fully functional for 6 months. Is that real time, or game time?

Game time, that means that you can play about half of the season.

Franklin

11-11-2003, 06:07 PM

See, that turns me off. I want to be able to test the entire cycle of the game. They should let you play at least 3-4 seasons, just to get a feel for what the career mode is really like.

I'm limp now, and have no interest in downloading the demo.

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 06:10 PM

Franklin:

3-4 seasons is the equivalent of 10-15 FOF Seasons. You're request is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

illinifan999

11-11-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Franklin
See, that turns me off. I want to be able to test the entire cycle of the game. They should let you play at least 3-4 seasons, just to get a feel for what the career mode is really like.

I'm limp now, and have no interest in downloading the demo.

So you won't be downloading the FOF2004 demo? :p

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 06:16 PM

Could someone send me the link to the pre-order "coupon" from SI and gogamer ?

Thanks!

Icy

11-11-2003, 06:22 PM

Umm probably Franklin didn't know that a soccer season lasts 10 months and each team plays around 38 league games plus each country cups plus european league or cups if it's the case. Half a season is more than enought to test CM, also it starts on the preseason about 1 month before the league starts so you have time to build yor team.

What would need a longer demo is FOF, at least include the postseason but that is another story.

Franklin

11-11-2003, 06:49 PM

Wow... this is the first time I've been ravaged by a pack of lunatic fanboys...

I don't know anything about soccer outside my experience with Hattrick. I know that with any text-based sports sim, my biggest turn-on is developing a team from the ground up, through the draft, youth squads, whatever. You can't try that one on with six months of any game.

Franklin

11-11-2003, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by illinifan999
So you won't be downloading the FOF2004 demo? :p

I did, just to get a look at the interface, and get a feel for what the screens would look like and all, but I didn't play it. I'll wait until the full version is available.

RPI-Fan

11-11-2003, 06:51 PM

Icy

11-11-2003, 07:00 PM

Wow... this is the first time I've been called pack of lunatic fanboys... :)

I agree with you about needing a long time to realy know how good is a game, btu nobody will offer you a 5 seasons game demo for any game, why?

1º Because lots of players will play 5 seasons, will take another team, play 5 seasons, etc and never will buy the game (yeah some guys are as cheap), also not everybody plays 100 years dynasties, 5 years on CM is a really big amount of days playing.

2º Because it's so easy for a cracker to remove the 5 seasons limit but is not possible to create a full working game from a half season demo. That is the reason used by Jim also.

Glengoyne

11-11-2003, 08:00 PM

Glengoyne

11-11-2003, 08:34 PM

Dola,

That said I just came to the end of the demo in a dynasty that was JUST really getting interesting. I guess a whole year would have been nice, but then again I will get over it.

ice4277

11-11-2003, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Dola,

That said I just came to the end of the demo in a dynasty that was JUST really getting interesting. I guess a whole year would have been nice, but then again I will get over it.

You could just continue it when the full version comes out :)

SirFozzie

11-12-2003, 03:05 AM

RPI: Sorry, I was asleep

http://www.gameplay.co.uk/cgi-bin/pl_reff.cgi?id2=SIGAMES&s=RM00749

There's the link to get it for 24.99 pounds :)

amazon.co.uk has it a lot cheaper, but they don't deliver to US, I think

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DC182/officialchampion

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Franklin
Wow... this is the first time I've been ravaged by a pack of lunatic fanboys...

I don't know anything about soccer outside my experience with Hattrick. I know that with any text-based sports sim, my biggest turn-on is developing a team from the ground up, through the draft, youth squads, whatever. You can't try that one on with six months of any game.

The 6 month demo will allow you a 'taste' of the game (hopefully enough so to get you addicted, go on try it - you can always stop ;) ) .....

Player development is something thats fully catered for in the game, there is a fairly in-depth training system and you have full reserve and under 19 (age) teams at most clubs in the game to help with this side of things.

The game also models player personalities and keeping the players happy and contented is an important part of management in the game (as it is in real-life), for instance if you have a prima-donna in your first team and let him get away with acting badly then your youngsters will watch this and those whom admire him might develop a similarly problematic personality ... on the other hand if you discipline him then he might get upset but your youngsters might develop into more 'mature' people.

Such decisions are part and parcel of management and there is really never a 'right' decision ... but the board will sack you if you make the wrong one often enough ;)

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 03:48 AM

Bonegavel

11-12-2003, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
I've seen companies in the past which have been wrecked by a demo being turned into warez, this isn't something which I particularly want to risk personally - especially as I'd have to go and get a 'proper' job then ;)

Makes sense, but can't they do the same thing with the final release? Seems that if the worry is a complete version of the game, can't they do that with the "purchased" version of the game in its final form?

I'm not arguing your reasoning, as that is fully understood. Just seems like these scumbags will have the same opportunity with the real game anyway.

jefflackey

11-12-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan

The game also models player personalities and keeping the players happy and contented is an important part of management in the game (as it is in real-life), for instance if you have a prima-donna in your first team and let him get away with acting badly then your youngsters will watch this and those whom admire him might develop a similarly problematic personality ... on the other hand if you discipline him then he might get upset but your youngsters might develop into more 'mature' people.

Such decisions are part and parcel of management and there is really never a 'right' decision ... but the board will sack you if you make the wrong one often enough ;)

I must say that things like this are the genius behind CM and what separates it from every other game in the genre. The game is filled to the brim with such "little" touches as this - most games don't even have the concept of a "prima donna" on the roster, much less a complex yet completely realistic feeling set of interactions that challenge your decision making process.

CM is one of the best role-playing games of any type for the PC. I said that in my CGW review and I'll keep saying it. ;) The players and media and fans and your coaches have a three dimensional feel that makes CM so much more than a stats/spreadsheet game.

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Bonegavel
Makes sense, but can't they do the same thing with the final release? Seems that if the worry is a complete version of the game, can't they do that with the "purchased" version of the game in its final form?

I'm not arguing your reasoning, as that is fully understood. Just seems like these scumbags will have the same opportunity with the real game anyway.

They can - but it takes time to crack a game and over 80% of sales are generally sold in the first two weeks of a games release.

If there isn't a crack available in that time then those sales will be to paying customers rather than simply downloaded.

(even for CM which doesn't follow the traditional sales curve as much as most games we sell around 65% of copies of a release within the first month)

Bonegavel

11-12-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
They can - but it takes time to crack a game and over 80% of sales are generally sold in the first two weeks of a games release.

If there isn't a crack available in that time then those sales will be to paying customers rather than simply downloaded.

(even for CM which doesn't follow the traditional sales curve as much as most games we sell around 65% of copies of a release within the first month)

Ahhh. That is why you are making millions of pounds and I'm not. The only pounds I'm earning are from eating too much and sitting on my ass all day.

I should've figured my analysis on that was flawed and that it was too obvious to have not been considered.

FWIW, good luck on finding a new name for your Soccer game. I don't like soccer, but if you ever make an American Football game I will swim across the Atlantic and hand-deliver my money-order in person.

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 10:10 AM

Ahhh. That is why you are making millions of pounds and I'm not. The only pounds I'm earning are from eating too much and sitting on my ass all day.
Heh - I'm just a humble 'wage slave' like everyone else here (apart from Jim :D) ....

PS. I've lost around 3 stone (around 15% of my body mass for those of you who don't understand 'stones') recently via. dieting and a medium amount of exercise! .... this programmer no longer eats pizza and coke :D

SirFozzie

11-12-2003, 10:34 AM

How can you be a programmer without eating Pizza and Coke?

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by SirFozzie
How can you be a programmer without eating Pizza and Coke?

By eating salad and diet coke :D

PS. Cucumber and humous as snack food in emergencies ... and yeah I know humous isn't particularly dieticious, but its better than crisps ...

Bonegavel

11-12-2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
Heh - I'm just a humble 'wage slave' like everyone else here (apart from Jim :D) ....

PS. I've lost around 3 stone (around 15% of my body mass for those of you who don't understand 'stones') recently via. dieting and a medium amount of exercise! .... this programmer no longer eats pizza and coke :D

Lord knows i am no SIGames fanboy, but you are a very funny man and I look forward to your posts.

Please rethink your stance on American Football. :) :)

Franklin

11-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Wow... someone from SI Games actually addressed my ignorant whining...

Shit... guess I'd better go give that demo a try after all. ;)

OldGiants

11-12-2003, 10:55 AM

MarkVaughn,

Is there anywhere in Germany (Berlin in particular) that will be selling the English language version of CM 03/04 by mid-December?

I ask because my daughter is taking this semester in Germany, near Berlin, and she could pick up a copy for me. Unfortunately, she won't be coming back through London, or she could buy it there.

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Bonegavel
Please rethink your stance on American Football. :) :)

I actually like most American sports (I lived and worked in America for a fair while after leaving University).

I can't say I have the same passion for them that I do soccer, but you have to live in England to understand our obsession with that sports really .... (my wife who's American is now a HUGE soccer fan after living here for 6 years, although she misguidedly supports Manchester City rather than Brighton, no taste whatsoever ... which I suppose is why she married me ;) ).

I wouldn't discount SI considering expanding into further sports in the future, BUT we are only a small company and I'm not prepared to risk the quality of our games by expanding the company too fast.

We'll grow at a sensible and regulated rate, that way it doesn't get in the way of my CM coding apart from anything else ;)

Marc Vaughan

11-12-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by OldGiants
MarkVaughn,
Is there anywhere in Germany (Berlin in particular) that will be selling the English language version of CM 03/04 by mid-December?
I ask because my daughter is taking this semester in Germany, near Berlin, and she could pick up a copy for me. Unfortunately, she won't be coming back through London, or she could buy it there.

I'm afraid I don't know to be honest - I only deal with helping to make the game, its Eidos that do the actual distibution of it ...

A final word of warning, German copies of CM don't contain real-data because of licencing restrictions (its the only country in the world where this is the case).

Sorry I can't be more help,

Marc

Bonegavel

11-12-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
I actually like most American sports (I lived and worked in America for a fair while after leaving University).

I can't say I have the same passion for them that I do soccer, but you have to live in England to understand our obsession with that sports really .... (my wife who's American is now a HUGE soccer fan after living here for 6 years, although she misguidedly supports Manchester City rather than Brighton, no taste whatsoever ... which I suppose is why she married me ;) ).

I wouldn't discount SI considering expanding into further sports in the future, BUT we are only a small company and I'm not prepared to risk the quality of our games by expanding the company too fast.

We'll grow at a sensible and regulated rate, that way it doesn't get in the way of my CM coding apart from anything else ;)

Excellent. I knew the request was silly, but that has never stopped me from anything before. I just long for the day when we Grid Iron guys can talk about our sims the same way the chaps drool over their CM.

MrBug708

11-12-2003, 11:30 AM

I think Marc ventures here to get away from the SIgames board. That and we kiss his ass everytime

Bonegavel

11-12-2003, 11:32 AM

[SMMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHH!]

JeeberD

11-12-2003, 11:44 AM

klayman

11-12-2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan

I wouldn't discount SI considering expanding into further sports in the future, BUT we are only a small company and I'm not prepared to risk the quality of our games by expanding the company too fast.

We'll grow at a sensible and regulated rate, that way it doesn't get in the way of my CM coding apart from anything else ;)

You could release the CM3 source code to us and we'll make the game for you ;)

cody8200

11-12-2003, 03:05 PM

I tried it and I just couldnt gedt itno it. Just too much stuff you already have to know. It does seem to be a really ncomplete sim for the sport of soccer though.

illinifan999

11-12-2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
I actually like most American sports (I lived and worked in America for a fair while after leaving University).

I can't say I have the same passion for them that I do soccer, but you have to live in England to understand our obsession with that sports really .... (my wife who's American is now a HUGE soccer fan after living here for 6 years, although she misguidedly supports Manchester City rather than Brighton, no taste whatsoever ... which I suppose is why she married me ;) ).

I wouldn't discount SI considering expanding into further sports in the future, BUT we are only a small company and I'm not prepared to risk the quality of our games by expanding the company too fast.

We'll grow at a sensible and regulated rate, that way it doesn't get in the way of my CM coding apart from anything else ;)

If you ever choose, tell me and I will buy it before it is even made! CM + American Football = SimParadise

Passacaglia

11-12-2003, 04:14 PM

Well, I *just* downloaded the TCY Update now, and will have to put it on my computer when I get home. So between not wanting to play an outdated TCY, and waiting for the new FOF, it's been all about the CM Demo. That said, I'll probably get FOF first. If I can. It's football season now! However, I'm so excited about the Big Ten season that I'll probably get a lot of TCY time in.

But comparing the FOF Demo to the CM Demo? No contest, CM wins that battle. The FOF Demo is worthless to me, an owner of three other FOF games. But the CM Demo really gives you an idea about the new features, and how they work. And I agree with Marc, the demo seems like just enough of a taste to get you addicted. I played the CM4 demo like it was a real game for SO long, not even knowing it was going to cut me off -- ever. I kept starting over as different teams, and eventually I stuck with one until the end, and had Algeciras battling for promotion in the Spanish Second Division B, finally working their way up to 2nd place, when poof, the game stopped. :P

And Icy, you're a Real fan? Bah. When I was in Madrid a couple months ago, I got to see Atletico (they were the only one of the two that was in town that weekend) take on Valencia. Valencia beat them up 3-0, but it was a great time, and I've still become an Atletico fan, and rooted for them across the ocean as much as I can, which simply means checking on them after each game on the internet. However, when I've started my CM 03/04 Demo, I've been playing as Real, so that I can be in the Championship League.

Anyway, we'll see what happens with CM. I might as well wait for some impressions before getting it, and I've never ordered anything internationally before. A friend of mine is going to England in February, so I might just wait until then and have him get it for me. Is that a significantly cheaper way to do it?

Fonzie

11-12-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by JeeberD
Holy crap, OldGiants makes an appearance! :eek:

I was just about to say the same thing.

Marc Vaughan

11-13-2003, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by MrBug708
I think Marc ventures here to get away from the SIgames board. That and we kiss his ass everytime

I've taken stick on most boards (justifiably so at times) and also get compliments in the same manner, I have 3 young kids and a wife who are totally unimpressed by computer games to keep my ego from getting out of control so it doesn't really affect me one way or another (apart from being an indicator of whats right/wrong in the game).

I post here mainly because its got a good level of discussion for an 'open' messageboard and its also one of the friendlies boards I've come across (plus the Reindeer race on the board last xmas rocked :D - I hope another one is done this year).

Bonegavel

11-13-2003, 08:52 AM

[SSSSSSSSMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHH]

I don't even consider it kissing your ass. You come across as humble, funny, decent human being and I don't even play your game that is really nothing more than guys running around in shorts with their socks pulled up to their thighs chasing a ball for a few hours on a giant field. I guess it is good excercise.

OldGiants

11-13-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
I'm afraid I don't know to be honest - I only deal with helping to make the game, its Eidos that do the actual distibution of it ...

A final word of warning, German copies of CM don't contain real-data because of licencing restrictions (its the only country in the world where this is the case).

Sorry I can't be more help,

Marc

Thanks for the info. I was hoping to give her a Christmas suggestion for all those Euros I've been sending her, but I suppose I'll have to use the mail.

Interesting about the German version. If that was all she could have found, I would have brushed up on my German skills some more. There can't be that many ways to say:

Er muss wirklich besser damit tun!

And thanks to JeeberD and Fonzie (and others) for noticing my return. With the advent of Jim's new game, I'm looking forward to the types of discussions we all used to have.

bbor

11-13-2003, 11:40 AM

EHM EHM EHM We want EHM

Riz where are you???

Hockey season has started:)

Anyone have a status update?

Honolulu_Blue

11-13-2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by bbor
EHM EHM EHM We want EHM

Riz where are you???

Hockey season has started:)

Anyone have a status update?

I second this.

Marc Vaughan

11-13-2003, 01:15 PM

Anyone have a status update?
Its looking very good, its in testing at SI currently and will reach an internal 'Beta' level in the next month or so.

To summarise its state it 'rocks'

Its basically a CM for Hockey ... :D

Sloan

11-13-2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
Its looking very good, its in testing at SI currently and will reach an internal 'Beta' level in the next month or so.

To summarise its state it 'rocks'

Its basically a CM for Hockey ... :D

I think we may need a north american beta on this game just to be sure. ;)

Honolulu_Blue

11-13-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Sloan
I think we may need a north american beta on this game just to be sure. ;)

I'm close. The Eurostar can get me to London in around 2 hours, 20 minutes...

bbor

11-13-2003, 02:34 PM

It's just getting close to starting internal beta?

Hmm.....Dammit..i thought i was gonna be playing this game all X-mas:(

klayman

11-13-2003, 03:26 PM

Yeah, come on Marc, the only way bbor is going to see the Leafs win the cup is if he plays them on EHM. The man is desperate :D

Karim

11-13-2003, 03:43 PM

bbor,

Unfortunately it won't be released until the 1st quarter next year.

~~~

For those who crave SI's expansion into a CM for American Football, support EHM:FE.

The fact that Marc describes it as "a CM for Hockey" definitely sounds great.

Franklin

11-13-2003, 03:50 PM

Ok... so I installed the demo, and ran it.

First gripe: It's a full-screen app... not windowed. I hate that.

Second gripe: For us soccer idiots, it's not at all intuitive. I have no idea what the colored circles next to all my guys' names are for, what the colors mean, or what the letters in the circles mean. I didn't see an obvious "help" button, so I turned it off. If I buy this game, I assume it will have a manual?

HornedFrog Purple

11-13-2003, 03:54 PM

You can play in windowed mode if you want. Its in the options section where you can set the currency and stuff.

Yes it comes with a manual, a pretty big one. Also the tips and tricks thing is pretty handy.

ice4277

11-13-2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Franklin
Ok... so I installed the demo, and ran it.

First gripe: It's a full-screen app... not windowed. I hate that.

Second gripe: For us soccer idiots, it's not at all intuitive. I have no idea what the colored circles next to all my guys' names are for, what the colors mean, or what the letters in the circles mean. I didn't see an obvious "help" button, so I turned it off. If I buy this game, I assume it will have a manual?

Yeah, there's a manual with the game that does a pretty good job of explaining everything. Also, if you leave the mouse cursor over one of the circles, I believe a little pop-up helps explaing what the circle means. Off the top of my head, orange is unfit for game conditions, yellow means your player is one yellow card away from being suspended, red means the player is injured and unavailable, plus a couple others I can't think of off the top of my head.

As for the game being intuitive, thats not a the problem with the game. I'm sure people who have no idea what American football is all about would have a pretty tough time with FOF, as well. But there are a couple pretty good tutorials around the net, I know the link to Marc's Hints and Tips has been posted here a few times as well. It can definitely be tough to get your head around at first, but after you play for a while, you will get used to it.

Franklin

11-13-2003, 04:03 PM

Alright... I'll give it another try... sheesh, I feel like such a whiny little bitch...

Huckleberry

11-13-2003, 04:03 PM

I recommend your first endeavor after soccer be college football. I'll even help. :D

By the way, this Eidos vs. SIGames thing reminds me of the famous shaved ice cone stand battle on South Lamar Blvd. in Austin, TX in the summer of 2000. Little guy has a stand open and all the high school kids from Austin High would go get some starting at the end of the school year all through the summer. Halfway through the summer some big corporate looking fancy stands opens up across the side street and undersells the little guy by a quarter per item.

God bless the Austin High kids, it ticked 'em off and they paid the extra quarter to go to the original. Mega-Lo-Stand shut down soon after.

Honolulu_Blue

11-13-2003, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Franklin
Alright... I'll give it another try... sheesh, I feel like such a whiny little bitch...

Agreed. :D

Glengoyne

11-13-2003, 06:33 PM

Franklin,

I know very little about CM, and as such I can relate to where you stand. The first team I took charge of was Dag and Red. A conference team with a tiny budget. For me the nice thing is you can take them nearly as is, and have some real success on the pitch. Also having a small budget seemed somehow more manageable for me, than the mega budgets the Premiere league teams boast.

The big difference between CM and other sims is that while a club owns the rights to a player, the player has final say. For example it is quite common to acquire rights to someone, and then sell those rights to another club,only to have the player Keebosh the whole thing. Say I sell a guy valued at 50k to a team for say a deal structured to amount to 75k, because they really want him. The player can just refuse to sign with that club, and break the deal. The opposite is also true, you land a sweetheart transfer deal with a top club, but the player doesn't want to play for some team in the conference.

Loans are also a pretty big deal, you can get a top team to loan you a highly skilled player for a season or portion of a season. If done right, you won't even have to pick up very much of the player's salary. You are giving their prospect valuable playing time. Of course, the player can again refuse to go along with the deal.

The root of it is that players in CM are a pain in the ass, but quite necessary for success.

The best advice I can give is just to forge ahead, and you will pick things up as they happen.

Franklin

11-13-2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Franklin,

I know very little about CM, and as such I can relate to where you stand. The first team I took charge of was Dag and Red. A conference team with a tiny budget. For me the nice thing is you can take them nearly as is, and have some real success on the pitch. Also having a small budget seemed somehow more manageable for me, than the mega budgets the Premiere league teams boast.

The big difference between CM and other sims is that while a club owns the rights to a player, the player has final say. For example it is quite common to acquire rights to someone, and then sell those rights to another club,only to have the player Keebosh the whole thing. Say I sell a guy valued at 50k to a team for say a deal structured to amount to 75k, because they really want him. The player can just refuse to sign with that club, and break the deal. The opposite is also true, you land a sweetheart transfer deal with a top club, but the player doesn't want to play for some team in the conference.

Loans are also a pretty big deal, you can get a top team to loan you a highly skilled player for a season or portion of a season. If done right, you won't even have to pick up very much of the player's salary. You are giving their prospect valuable playing time. Of course, the player can again refuse to go along with the deal.

The root of it is that players in CM are a pain in the ass, but quite necessary for success.

The best advice I can give is just to forge ahead, and you will pick things up as they happen.

Sound advice... thanks!

Now that I can play in a windowed mode, I'm a lot more receptive to trying it out. :D

Godzilla Blitz

11-13-2003, 09:20 PM

Franklin: I got so lost the first time I played. Gave up after an hour. A couple of weeks later I tried it again and after an hour things started to make a bit more sense. After about three hours I started to get the hang of it, and after about 4 hours I was hooked. Be patient with the thing, don't worry if you lose lots of games in the beginning, and let your brain absorb what's going on. After a couple of hours things get easier.

I'm glad to hear the demo is getting such rave reviews. I'm interested to see how things play out over a long career. If the reports are solid, I'll be picking this one up pronto. CM4 was enough of a taste of a much better product that I couldn't go back to an earlier version, but the lingering problems made me leary of playing full tilt. This new version sounds like it has got the CM4 engine working to full potential.

As an aside, I think SI Games hired drug dealers as consultants when they were testing the length of their demos. It's evil. I started out thinking that six months of gameplay is so generous (it will take you 5 or more hours to get to that point) and how silly SI Games is for giving away so much gameplay for nothing, but in reality the demo cuts you off just as you are getting totally caught up in your team. The timing couldn't be more perfect. I still remember the exact moment the demo cut off my first game.

ISiddiqui

11-13-2003, 09:33 PM

First gripe: It's a full-screen app... not windowed. I hate that.

You can make it windowed in the options. Gotta have it that way so I can play in class ;).

Second gripe: For us soccer idiots, it's not at all intuitive. I have no idea what the colored circles next to all my guys' names are for, what the colors mean, or what the letters in the circles mean. I didn't see an obvious "help" button, so I turned it off. If I buy this game, I assume it will have a manual?

For the colored circles, at least, if you hold your mouse pointer over it for a second, it'll tell you what the circle means.