EA's Madden vs. Sega's ESPN Football

[AgPete]

After years of Madden, I'm thinking about giving another console football title a try. I'm looking at Sega's ESPN Football because it has such great reviews from so many people. I searched the archives here and found some interesting points but it doesn't seem like many people have talked about both titles in awhile. If anyone could answer some questions, it would be mucho appreciated. Also, if you can, please let me know what difficulty levels you play the games on and if you play the CPU. (i've found the CPU much easier and more predictable than talented online opponents and easy levels distort how realistic some of the games are)

- One of the common remarks I hear is that running is too difficult on Madden and too easy on Sega. This is a big issue for me because I love running the ball. I've never found Madden to be that difficult to run. I think Madden rewards teams with good offensive lines and if I'm stuck with a team with bad talent on the line I usually end up running behind my best blockers which I believe is realistic. The Cowboys this year spend a lot of time running to the left behind Adams and Allen. I enjoy being able to shut down the run and forcing teams into obvious passing situations where I can change my defense and pull everyone back into a zone. (or sometimes gamble with the blitz) Is Sega so easy in the runnin game that any decent player can get automatic first downs?

- Madden really shaped up this year and the defensive backs have some awesome AI. If you don't manually control your defensive backs and time swats and picks right, you can still win if you call the right defense. Madden also still lets you get burned when you play man against a great receiver or just call the wrong defense in general. You can still lose out sometimes though if you're not manually controlling your corners or safeties and someone with good hand-eye coordination is manually controlling a receiver with a decent catching attribute. How does Sega handle it?

- I like the sacks in Madden, they're pretty realistic although one complaint I have is defensive ends don't seem to be able to get to the other side and catch a tailback from behind which isn't common but does happen much more in the NFL than Madden. I think if Madden made the defensive ends any faster though it would screw up the defensive realness. How does Sega handle the front seven? Are defensive linemen too fast, too slow, or just right? In Madden, you can live and die by the blitz and I think the game does an admirable job in simulating real football. How is it in Sega? Are sacks too easy? Does blitzing make much of a difference?

- It's very easy to defend against mobile quarterbacks in Madden if you call the right defense which is really how it should be. Michael Vicks are the exception of the world. Can you get burned too much with mobile quarterbacks in Sega if someone is looking to run first and pass second with their QB?

- Which game has the best playbooks? Does Sega cover as much ground as Madden with offensive and defensive playcalling? Does it cover more?

Thanks for the advice. :)

[SackAttack]

Originally posted by AgPete
- One of the common remarks I hear is that running is too difficult on Madden and too easy on Sega. This is a big issue for me because I love running the ball. I've never found Madden to be that difficult to run. I think Madden rewards teams with good offensive lines and if I'm stuck with a team with bad talent on the line I usually end up running behind my best blockers which I believe is realistic. The Cowboys this year spend a lot of time running to the left behind Adams and Allen. I enjoy being able to shut down the run and forcing teams into obvious passing situations where I can change my defense and pull everyone back into a zone. (or sometimes gamble with the blitz) Is Sega so easy in the runnin game that any decent player can get automatic first downs?

Running can be absurdly easy in ESPN. It depends on the back, and the offensive line, to a degree, but it also depends on your mastery of 'The Charge.' If you've got the hang of using it, you'll be able to drag your tacklers an extra 5 or 6 yards for the first down when running it between the tackles. Certain backs also have a definite affinity for breaking tackles (SirFozzie will gladly expound upon his hatred for Mike Alstott, I suspect. :D), which allows them to pile up yardage there. The higher difficulty levels tone this down somewhat, but there's always the threat of the big play.

- Madden really shaped up this year and the defensive backs have some awesome AI. If you don't manually control your defensive backs and time swats and picks right, you can still win if you call the right defense. Madden also still lets you get burned when you play man against a great receiver or just call the wrong defense in general. You can still lose out sometimes though if you're not manually controlling your corners or safeties and someone with good hand-eye coordination is manually controlling a receiver with a decent catching attribute. How does Sega handle it?

Sega's is pretty solid. The corners and safeties do a pretty fair job of keeping the receivers in front of them, but you do still see the odd receiver manage to slip his coverage and get open for a huge gain. The passing game is pretty well balanced, IMO.

- I like the sacks in Madden, they're pretty realistic although one complaint I have is defensive ends don't seem to be able to get to the other side and catch a tailback from behind which isn't common but does happen much more in the NFL than Madden. I think if Madden made the defensive ends any faster though it would screw up the defensive realness. How does Sega handle the front seven? Are defensive linemen too fast, too slow, or just right? In Madden, you can live and die by the blitz and I think the game does an admirable job in simulating real football. How is it in Sega? Are sacks too easy? Does blitzing make much of a difference?

The main thing I've noticed with Sega's game here is that the blockers don't always pick up the linebacker who's hanging on the perimeter of the front three or front four. That's not the offensive line's fault as much as it is that the fullback or tailback seem a little braindead on their blocking schemes sometimes. It's not an every-down thing, but it happens often enough that a pocket QB can often get rushed into throwing the ball immediately after his drop steps.

- It's very easy to defend against mobile quarterbacks in Madden if you call the right defense which is really how it should be. Michael Vicks are the exception of the world. Can you get burned too much with mobile quarterbacks in Sega if someone is looking to run first and pass second with their QB?

Most I've given up on a QB draw, either online or single-player, has been five yards, and that was with a three man front and 8 guys back defending the pass. In other words, he caught me napping. Now, I've given up some big plays on pass first/run second situations where the QB has to roll out to avoid the sack and my linemen don't manage to corral him before he takes off, but that's fairly normal, I'd think.

- Which game has the best playbooks? Does Sega cover as much ground as Madden with offensive and defensive playcalling? Does it cover more?

Couldn't tell ya, but Sega does let you create a fairly huge playbook of your own from all the plays in the game, which is nice.

Josh

[AgPete]

Thanks a bunch Sack. Great input! It sounds like a great game except for the running. I'm wary of that running game and might not buy the game because of it but that playbook feature sounds awesome. I can't tell you how many offensive plays I'd like to put into one playbook when I connect to an opponent with Madden.

[kcchief19]

If you do go with ESPN, never try to block a punt. There is a bug in which the penalty for roughing the punter is incorrectly enforced from where the receiving team catches the punt -- i.e., you hold the opposing team to their 40 yard line, they punt it to your 10 and you rough the punter. The kicking team will receive the ball at YOUR 5!!!!

Sorry, just had to whine. I've been a long time fan of the Sega series, but for some big steps forward they took this year, I think there are some flaws as well.

[gstelmack]

I'm in my second season of Sega ESPN, and would like to echo most of SackAttack's comments. It feels really well balanced; I have an 11-0 team right now in my second season (12-4 with a Super Bowl victory in season 1), but I've really had to work for some of those victories. I mean, it's an arcade game, so I EXPECT to win the Super Bowl every season, but I don't expect to cakewalk my way there all the time. I've blown out some bad teams, but had some really tight games against others, and had some not go at all the way I'd expect.

I did a fantasy draft to start out, and went with an excellent OL/DL, got a solid QB/RB/WR/S setup, and ended up with sucky LBs and CBs. As a result my offense has been pretty good, but other teams have been able to score on me as well. I get a fair number of sacks and turnovers, but with those LBs and CBs I give up some big plays.

The key here is that when I give up a big play, I can usually see the mistake I made calling the defense and how the other team exploited it. When I throw a pick, I can usually see why I shouldn't have thrown it. The only AI issue I've found is the poor FB blocking AI sometimes mentioned by SackAttack, but even that is only intermittent and dependent on the play. Usually the playcalling affects this more than anything else.

And I've had games where I couldn't be stopped running the ball, and games where I couldn't move it one bit. Some teams I can run outside all day long, some teams I need to run up the gut. And sometimes nothing works and I have to depend on my passing game exclusively. It all depends on finding the right matchups. I can't use the same gameplan, or even the same plays, to win each game. I have to adjust.

That differs from the other games I've tried (Madden, Fever 2003) where I've seen really bad AI choices, or obvious advantages given to the AI (I never complete a pass to a covered receiver, while the computer can throw into triple-coverage all day long). ESPN just FEELs right in this regard.

Plus this is the first game where adjusting the "sliders" actually made sense. When I feel the AI is breaking tackles more often than me, I adjust that slider just a hair. I started out at All-Pro (the "normal" difficulty with everything in the middle) and tweaked some just because I'm not as quick at hitting the move buttons as the computer. The end result is the AI busts nearly as many big plays as me, but it all comes down to the playcalling and my decision making while controlling the QB, which is how I like it.

I really like what they've done with ESPN. I have managed to lock it up twice, and I had one really screwy stats messup at the end of a half, but that seems like par for the course these days, and the rest of the game plays so much better than anything else I've tried.

If I get a chance I want to check out NFL Fever 2004 to see how it stacks up, but I've been really happy with ESPN NFL on the Xbox.

[Raiders Army]

2 cents:

Madden is more realistic.

ESPN more fun.

Reasons:

Madden: more realistic stats (no Arizona Cardinals winning the Superbowl) and better draft and off-season

ESPN: you can't beat Chris Berman giving you the "hot at the half" player, and the NFL Primetime show at the end of each week (I have yet to be on one of their plays...has anyone else???)

If you can do it, get both...if not, I would go with ESPN initially (I played the crap out of it in two weeks), but Madden in the long term (haven't played ESPN in a month). Or you could wait for FOF 2004 out this week :)

Edit: put an "l" in superbow :)