How do you repress it?

[wbonnell]

How do you repress the inevitability of your oblivion, the possible meaninglessness of your existence? Based on my own life, it is clearly possible to live much of it without pondering it. However, once you grasp the profundity of it, there's- apparently- no turning back.

Is it religion, or material things, or family? What?

As for me, I derive meaning from my family and friends. However, I've reached a point where I'm constantly pondering, shall we say, metaphysics. How did that happen? Can you simply turn it off? :)

I either expect the thread to get jacked or to die a quick death(like most of my posts, I might add :) ). This seems to be an uncomfortable question for some people, but it doesn't have to be.

[Buccaneer]

William, go play a strategy game or something, for cryin' out loud.

[Draft Dodger]

this thread hurts

[kcchief19]

I think our good friend has his hands on some "stuff" that he is not sharing with others.

[sabotai]

Repress it? I've pretty much accepted it, and have for as long as I can remember. You make your own meaning to your existance. Just becuase one day you will die does not mean what you do is meaningless.

[Calis]

You gotta just keep on keeping on.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
William, go play a strategy game or something, for cryin' out loud.

You might have guessed, but I'm trying to avoid writing my next essay for school!

[CamEdwards]

you don't repress it. you enjoy the time that you have. I literally used to stay awake at night thinking about the fact that one day I would no longer be on this earth. Then I realized I could stay up all night paralyzed by that thought, but it wasn't going to make me live any longer. In fact, it was more than likely going to stress me out so bad I'd leave this world sooner. It's not that I don't think about it anymore... I just try and live so that when that time comes I'll have as few regrets as possible.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by sabotai
Repress it? I've pretty much accepted it, and have for as long as I can remember. You make your own meaning to your existance. Just becuase one day you will die does not mean what you do is meaningless.

Couldn't agree more- see my follow-up. I was just wondering how often people ponder it. I went from never to every day.

These are some pretty mind blowing questions (even if you're religious) that, unfortunately, seem to be insoluble. Perhaps that why people avoid talking about it. Just curious...

[sabotai]

I extend my life by only sleeping 90 minutes a night. That way.............zzzzzzzz.......I end up "living" much ..........zzzzz.......longer than everyone else since I am awake..........zzzzzzz......a lot more in the day than everyone else.

Why did that take me an hour to write?

:D

(Worst. Joke. Ever.)

[CraigSca]

Buffalo wings and beer. 'Nuff said.

[mckerney]

Well, it's a crazy fucked up world and we're all just floating along waiting for someone who can walk on water, man!

[robbgmaier]

strippers and beer, how else?

[wbonnell]

Looks like my thread is nearly "jacked". :)

[Ksyrup]

Currently, I'm repressing it by listening to a late-70's Police bootleg and watching hockey. Works for me.

[mckerney]

You see life is like that. We change, that's all. You see, the guy I am now is not the guy I was then. If the guy I was then met the guy I am now he'd beat the shit out of me. Those are the facts.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by mckerney
You see life is like that. We change, that's all. You see, the guy I am now is not the guy I was then. If the guy I was then met the guy I am now he'd beat the shit out of me. Those are the facts.

That in itself is an interesting question that is probably considered nonsensical to most. Are you the <b>same</b> person you were even moments ago. Sounds preposterous, perhaps, to even pose the question, but it's a good example of something that is unknowable.

What if we perfect head transplants? Who do you become when your head is moved to another body?

[mckerney]

Originally posted by wbonnell
That in itself is an interesting question that is probably considered nonsensical to most. Are you the <b>same</b> person you were even moments ago. Sounds preposterous, perhaps, to even pose the question, but it's a good example of something that is unknowable.

What if we perfect head transplants? Who do you become when your head is moved to another body?

You wanna play some word games, or do some experiments on me or anything?

[Fonzie]

wbonnell-

If you haven't already come across it, you might try investigating Terror Management Theory, developed by Jeff Greenberg and based heavily on the work of Ernest Becker. Doing a few web searches for those names and TMT should turn up a few leads as to where to track down more information.

I know some folks (including Greenberg) have described reading Becker's work as "life-changing." Might be worth a shot.

[Fonzie]

Originally posted by mckerney
You see life is like that. We change, that's all. You see, the guy I am now is not the guy I was then. If the guy I was then met the guy I am now he'd beat the shit out of me. Those are the facts.

Dola-

The existentialists would say you hit the nail right on the head.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Fonzie
Dola-

The existentialists would say you hit the nail right on the head.

Me, Stevo, eh. Whatever.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Fonzie
wbonnell-

If you haven't already come across it, you might try investigating Terror Management Theory, developed by Jeff Greenberg and based heavily on the work of Ernest Becker. Doing a few web searches for those names and TMT should turn up a few leads as to where to track down more information.

I know some folks (including Greenberg) have described reading Becker's work as "life-changing." Might be worth a shot.


Sorry for (what has become) a cliche, but <b>I heart FOFC</b> There's some pretty darn intellectual people here. I can almost always get a decent response excepting, perhaps, my automobile analogy. You guys were weak (or maybe it was my analogy?).

Anyway, the Terror Management Theory stuff looks like very interesting. I'm adding it to my (growing) queue of books. The only thing I currently fear is not having enough time to read all these books before I die. :)

[Dutch]

Stop pondering life and death and join now!http://www.vhemt.org/

[Fonzie]

Originally posted by wbonnell
The only thing I currently fear is not having enough time to read all these books before I die. :)

Well, there you go. Problem solved. ;)

[wbonnell]

Here's some information. My initial response is positive:

TMT assumes that death-related anxiety is our most fundamental source of anxiety. Why? Like other species, we have a basic self-preservation drive. Combining this drive with the realization that we will die creates in us a paralyzing terror of death. In order to ward off this anxiety, according to terror management theorists, we create and participate in culture. By participating in culture, we are able to provide our lives with order, structure, meaning, and even permanence. There are many ways in which culture gives our lives permanence, thus providing us with a sense of immortality. One may attempt to secure eternal life, for example, by adopting a particular religious belief system. Or, through one’s contributions to society, be they ideas, tangible objects, or children, a person ensures that he or she will live on in a symbolic sense.

Terror management theorists argue that much of human activity has the goal of defining and establishing ourselves as integral players in this cultural drama. Because culture is a social construction, meaning that it is constructed by and for human beings, our sense of ourselves as valuable players in the cultural drama comes from other people. Specifically, we are dependent on other people’s ideas about how well we are living up to the standards of the cultural worldview. TMT, therefore, views self-esteem as derived largely from others. According to terror management theorists, then, the cultural anxiety buffer is comprised of two parts: a cultural worldview and high self-esteem.

The theory makes interesting predictions for how people will behave in particular situations. First, TMT predicts that, if one’s anxiety buffers (self-esteem or cultural worldview) are weakened or strengthened, one will react by becoming either more or less anxious, respectively, in response to threats. Evidence bears out these predictions. Research has shown, for example, that people whose self-esteem is boosted by receiving bogus positive feedback on a personality or intelligence test report less anxiety in response to a graphic death-related video (Greenberg et al, 1992). Second, the theory predicts that reminding people of their mortality should increase their need for self-esteem and their commitment to their cultural worldview, given that these structures buffer anxiety. Consistent with this hypothesis, research has shown that making death salient to people leads them to recommend harsher punishments for those who deviate from the cultural worldview, such as moral transgressors. Conversely, mortality salience leads people to praise those who uphold the cultural worldview (see Pyszczynski, Greenberg, & Solomon, 1999).

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Dutch
Stop pondering life and death and join now!http://www.vhemt.org/

I feel immoral just visiting that site.

[yabanci]

As for me, for everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I only wish that there will be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate.

[3ric]

To quote the Dalai Lama:

"I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness. That is clear. Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in this religion or that religion, we all are seeking something better in life."

Focus on this life, not what comes afterwards. Cam said it very well. Life is to short to worry about it. When your time is up, would you've preferred to look back and see how much time was wasted by being anxious of what's coming?

[astralhaze]

Listen to The Flaming Lips Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots

That might sound silly, especially considering the title of the album, that a rock and roll album could help with such heavy musings, but it does.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by 3ric
To quote the Dalai Lama:

"I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness. That is clear. Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in this religion or that religion, we all are seeking something better in life."

Focus on this life, not what comes afterwards. Cam said it very well. Life is to short to worry about it. When your time is up, would you've preferred to look back and see how much time was wasted by being anxious of what's coming?

I greatly respect the Dalai Lama, but I didn't mean to imply that one must necessarily be anxious about life/death/existence. What I find curious, however, is man's ability to repress thoughts of it via mechanisms such as religion.

[Ekoostik Head]

I always turn to William Shatner.

[3ric]

Originally posted by wbonnell
I greatly respect the Dalai Lama, but I didn't mean to imply that one must necessarily be anxious about life/death/existence. What I find curious, however, is man's ability to repress thoughts of it via mechanisms such as religion.

Ah, but I interpreted what the Lama said as that happiness itself is a mechanism to not merely repress the thoughts but to replace them altogether. A repression of thoughts could imply, among other things, an anxiety about death. If your definition of happiness excludes being anxious about your existence (or the lack of it), then there should be no thoughts to repress.

[Senator]

I have never been a big fan of death.

[Drake]

Personally, I plan on just living forever. Death is a population control conspiracy perpetuated by the Man.

[Subby]

When I was a young child I had a serious problem with the concept of eternity. It would send me off on hysterical crying jags - so bad that my parents put me in counseling (albeit with the pastor of our church).

I still feel pretty heavy anxiety when pondering the afterlife, but I think that as you grow older and take on more responsibility (family, work, community) you are so immersed in the moment you barely have time to plan for retirement, much less ponder death and a world without you in it. Basically, you become less ego-centric - which is a good thing.

[revrew]

After living this "life" for 29 years, I certainly can't imagine putting my hope for happiness, meaning, or satisfaction in this life. One car accident, one mistake, one seemingly random disease...and this life is supposed to bring happiness?

Seeking satisfaction in this life is a luxury afforded only by the healthy middle-class. The sick know just how painful this life can be. The poor can't seem to find "life". The wealthy achieve what they think is life only to find it bland and unfulfilling, turning instead to more drugs, more thrills, more sex, more toys, and still some turn to suicide because none of these things brings satisfaction.

Personally, I agree with the ancient proverb, "If this life is all we have to hope for, then we, above all, are most to be pitied."

[Drake]

Originally posted by Subby
... I think that as you grow older and take on more responsibility (family, work, community) you are so immersed in the moment you barely have time to plan for retirement, much less ponder death and a world without you in it. Basically, you become less ego-centric - which is a good thing.

Or is it just that you come to look forward to the sweet, restful peace of the grave...where you can finally get some decent sleep. :)

[mattwakeman]

Maybe life is an experience to enjoy rather than a puzzle to be solved.

[Huckleberry]

If you want to stop thinking about "important" intellectual crap like that, listen to lots of 80s music.

You'll stop thinking altogether. I recommend Katrina and the Waves' Walking on Sunshine to start. Good luck.

[Subby]

Originally posted by Drake
Or is it just that you come to look forward to the sweet, restful peace of the grave...where you can finally get some decent sleep. :)
If that was the case I would have already mainlined that Tibetan Elephant Crack that you FedExed me last week...

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Subby
When I was a young child I had a serious problem with the concept of eternity. It would send me off on hysterical crying jags - so bad that my parents put me in counseling (albeit with the pastor of our church).




Interesting. I recently read an <b>excellent</b> autobiographical introduction to philosophy by Bryan Magee. He suffered from the same problem. According to him, nervous breakdowns have been fairly common amongst great thinkers. You're in good company.

As for me, these sorts of thoughts didn't even occur to me until a few years ago. I slept through the first 25 years of my life.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375750363/qid=1068747932/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/002-7620680-0466437?v=glance&n=507846

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by revrew
After living this "life" for 29 years, I certainly can't imagine putting my hope for happiness, meaning, or satisfaction in this life. One car accident, one mistake, one seemingly random disease...and this life is supposed to bring happiness?

Seeking satisfaction in this life is a luxury afforded only by the healthy middle-class. The sick know just how painful this life can be. The poor can't seem to find "life". The wealthy achieve what they think is life only to find it bland and unfulfilling, turning instead to more drugs, more thrills, more sex, more toys, and still some turn to suicide because none of these things brings satisfaction.

Personally, I agree with the ancient proverb, "If this life is all we have to hope for, then we, above all, are most to be pitied."

What you say is true, but it doesn't imply any other life.

[Senator]

No death!

We must adapt and overcome.

WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE!

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Drake
Or is it just that you come to look forward to the sweet, restful peace of the grave...where you can finally get some decent sleep. :)

(1) Death is one of two things: either the dead are nothing and have no perception of anything, or death is a relocation of the soul.
(2) If death is a complete lack of perception, then death is like a dreamless sleep.
(3) A night of dreamless sleep is better than most days and nights in one's life.
(4) Thus, if death is a complete lack of perception, it is a blessing. (from 2 and 3)
(5) If death is a relocation of the soul, then I (Socrates) will get to spend my time talking with and examining the great figures of history and all others who have died.
(6) Talking with and examining the great figures of history and others would an extraordinary happiness.
(7) Thus, if death is a relocation of the soul, it is a blessing. (from 5 and 6)
(8) Therefore, death is a blessing. (from 1, 4, and 7)

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by mattwakeman
Maybe life is an experience to enjoy rather than a puzzle to be solved.

Perhaps attempting to solve the puzzle is enjoyable...

[Senator]

(3) A night of dreamless sleep is better than most days and nights in one's life.

It is only better because you are aware that it is so. If you are not aware that it is so, it is not better.

Snatch the pebble from my hand, and you may leave.

[vtbub]

You'll know when you are supposed to know.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by 3ric
Ah, but I interpreted what the Lama said as that happiness itself is a mechanism to not merely repress the thoughts but to replace them altogether.

That, in my mind, is a very effective way of putting it.

Even if you cannot accept that life is suffering, there is a lot in Buddhist and meditational thought that suggests that the correct path is not to repress these thoughts, but to evolve past them. Even just to aspire to do so places you on a higher path.

[Franklin]

Originally posted by wbonnell
(1) Death is one of two things: either the dead are nothing and have no perception of anything, or death is a relocation of the soul.
(2) If death is a complete lack of perception, then death is like a dreamless sleep.
(3) A night of dreamless sleep is better than most days and nights in one's life.
(4) Thus, if death is a complete lack of perception, it is a blessing. (from 2 and 3)
(5) If death is a relocation of the soul, then I (Socrates) will get to spend my time talking with and examining the great figures of history and all others who have died.
(6) Talking with and examining the great figures of history and others would an extraordinary happiness.
(7) Thus, if death is a relocation of the soul, it is a blessing. (from 5 and 6)
(8) Therefore, death is a blessing. (from 1, 4, and 7)

This is all well and good... unless you happen to believe that Jesus told the truth. In which case death is only a blessing if you paid attention to what He said... otherwise, death is gonna suck.

[Fonzie]

Originally posted by QuikSand
That, in my mind, is a very effective way of putting it.

Even if you cannot accept that life is suffering, there is a lot in Buddhist and meditational thought that suggests that the correct path is not to repress these thoughts, but to evolve past them. Even just to aspire to do so places you on a higher path.

My experience has been that accepting and remaining mindful of mortality (both my own and that of others), if done properly, can have tremendously beneficial effects. How can one help but feel more tenderly toward a loved one when remembering that they will someday die? Or that you will someday die and leave them behind? It forces one to evaluate priorities somewhat differently, spurs one to engage with those important persons in perhaps a more meaningful way, and can render poignant the normal day-to-day interactions with those loved ones. In short, I've found that accepting and moving beyond the fear of death can be very freeing and fulfilling.

But hey, that's just me.

(Quick semi-related aside: there's evidence [from Barbara Fredrickson's laboratory at Stanford] that this is more or less how individuals who know their lifespans are limited view the world - the elderly and the terminally ill tightly embrace the closest of their relationships and discard the inconsequential acquaintences. And they're very happy doing so - they don't shed relationships as a function of some type of depression, they do so because it maximizes the pleasure they can derive in the time they have left. I suspect many of us could learn something from their approach.)

[Dutch]

This is all well and good... unless you happen to believe that Jesus told the truth. In which case death is only a blessing if you paid attention to what He said... otherwise, death is gonna suck.

Uh-oh...people in Bhutan are in trouble.

[sabotai]

Heh, considering how likely people are these days to actually follow what Jesus supposedly said...I think a hell of a lot of people who think they are safe are in trouble.

Me? Satan's gonna love me. :D

[sabotai]

dola,

Originally posted by Senator
No death!

We must adapt and overcome.

WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE!

WILL YOU PROTECT THIS HOUSE!?