Something to note before using CA

[Desnudo]

In the HT rules it notes that you need a good attack along with a good CA rating.

Having read many rants in the various conference threads about CA not working properly, I'd point that out for anyone considering the tactic.

Everyone is focused on 5-3-2, or 5-4-1, as "the CA" formation, but I personally think the 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 is probably what the HT designers had in mind.


Edit: Should add that "Pressing" is probably the tactic that should be used by proponents of death by nothingness (aka 5-backline).

[saintjo]

I am pretty sure the calculation for your CA ability is something like the total of all your defense skills and the passing skills of all the defenders. Im sure its more complicated than that, but my point is the more defenders, the easier to get your ability up. Then the ability to finish off the counter attack is based on your attack rating, so you would want that as high as possible too.

I think the prefered formation really depends on each teams set up. A very strong defenisive team could get away with a 3-4-3 to add attack support. A strong attack team could use a 5-3-2 or 4-4-2 to their advantage.

Personally I plan on using it only when there is no way I can win the midfield, but it is still within 1 or 2 levels. More of a last ditch effort, than a lifestyle.

[Coffee Warlord]

You need a strong attack to do anything with CA. You may get in position to make a counter, but you won't be able to score, because you have no offense.

Lot of people are just figuring that you can stack the defense and play CA and do well. Not the case.

[apoc]

5-2-3 Baby the ultimate legal (trainable) CA formation :D

Of course your midfield will be terrible lol

[daedalus]

I think a normal 4-4-2 is the formation most likely to succeed with counter attacking.

[-Panther]

personally, and yes some will not like what I say, the many morons that play counter-attack with only 1 striker (5-4-1, 4-5-1) deserve to get their ass handed to them since the very logic of counter attack implies, yes that's right, you actually have to have an attack to score with it.

personally I think it was designed to try to get 4-4-2 played more often as I feel that's the formation it's meant for.

5 back formations could work but you sacrifice too much. 3 midfielders you either give up attack which you need, or too much possession. 4 midfielders and your attack will make you look like a fool for playing CA.

I still say counter-attack is overrated as people want it to be more than it is. pressing spells death to a team that counter-attacks.

most teams I see complaining about counter attack have something like:

the morons playing a ?-?-1 formation: magnificent+ defenses with poor-weak attacks. come on, grow a brain.

2/3 of the others: outstanding defenses with passable-solid attacks going against outstanding defenses. close but need more attack.

the others play with 1 IM and think they've got %50+ of beating an excellent+ midfield with wretched midfield just because they've got strong attacks and defenses.

you give them 8-9 regular attacks and you'll lose 9 times out of 10.

counter-attack to me is meant for a extremely balanced team (formidable attack and defenses) with a little weaker midfield. not this I'll only get %5 possession and beat him with CA.

when it comes to little guy vs. big boys, pressing will give you better results most of the time.

another thing I don't get is teams that intend to use a specific tactic every game. you do that, and your opponent will know easily what/how to play to stop you.

my honest $0.02 if I offended anyone, get over it ;)

[Desnudo]

Yes, 4-4-2 would be decent if you had good wings. I mentioned 4-3-3 thinking of a guy in my series who pulls ridiculous defense ratings (series 5 mind you) and still gets a decent midfield. I think you could get more attack from 3 up front and still get an okay midfield as long as you had 2 IMs playing. All theoritical for me since I prefer winning posession.

What sparked this thread was an amazingly rude and angry thread directed at HT-bjorn on the Swedish conference. If you didn't read it, it basically shows that people had invested a ridiculous amount of hope in being able to beat superior teams with this CA tactic.

[vex]

Want to beat a superior team? Get better.

[Havok]

Originally posted by vexroid
Want to beat a superior team? Get better.

Bingo

[Desnudo]

Originally posted by apoc
5-2-3 Baby the ultimate legal (trainable) CA formation :D

Of course your midfield will be terrible lol

How many chances does 1% posession convert to? ;)

[lytic]

You buy 2 titanic Middies with excellent passing

Stack the defence and Offence.

5-2-3 is my ultimate goal... but first I need a keeper to back up my defenders, so I can a little cheaper on the defence for the extra passing.