OT JFK at 86?

[Senator]

With his poor health, he might not have made it to 86 anyway, but I guess take it for what it is worth.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/news11210321a.jpg

November 21, 2003 -- This is what President John F. Kennedy would look like today if he hadn't been assassinated four decades ago, according to a computerized age progression.
JFK was 46 when he was killed in Dallas 40 years ago tomorrow.

The new image shows JFK - who's forever youthful in the national consciousness - with sagging jowls, white hair and a higher hairline.

"General things happen in aging: Eyelids begin to droop, the mouth becomes thinner and starts to droop, even the earlobes droop," said N. Eileen Barrow, the imaging specialist who aged the photo at the Forensic Anthropology and Computer Enhancement Services lab at Louisiana State University.

"It sounds more terrible than it really is and it happens slowly."

Barrow, who studied computer-generated age progression at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, used a well-known photograph of the 35th president and aged him, taking hints from photos of JFK's father, Joseph, who died at 81, and brother Ted, who is 71.

"I took a real good look at Joseph and Ted, and [made the progression] according to the aging I saw in them," Barrow said.



She rejected Ted's shaggy mane and went with the classic Kennedy coiffure, swept over to the side, but gave the president his brother's prominent jaw line.

"They [JFK and Ted] both have very wide jaws. Jowling would have been present, Barrow said. "The bone structure is already formed and it's a matter of gravity."

[HornedFrog Purple]

:(

If anyone here ever travels to or through Dallas I really suggest going to that area downtown. When you walk around there it is just a different feeling, I can't explain it, it's like when I visited Pearl Harbor a few years ago or I when I went to the Alamo.

[Senator]

HFP - sorry about the frogs. Great run though.

Perhaps this can be the official conspiracy thread about JFK, since the 40th anniversary is tomorrow.

I'll start. Oswald acted alone. End of conspiracy.

[Wasabiak]

Yesterday, on KFAN radio, this whole topic came up for discussion. The first guy that called in said that he believes the theory that the driver of the limo shot JFK. I had NEVER heard this theory before. Anyone else hear this one?

Funny enough, the guy started off by saying that he played football at the U of M with Tony Dungy, possibly trying to make himself sound legit before his comments.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Ok. Rebuttal.

The Warren Report is the most disjointed case of a federal prosecution I have ever read. It never asks the more obvious questions and skips anything that would put the idea of a conspiracy to rest. :D

Patsy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lcjjdnh]

I don't knwo whether anyone else watched it but the Peter Jenning's sepcial on ABC last night put up a pretty good case for the fact that Oswald acted alone and that their was no conspiracy behind it. First it showed through CPU animated graphics, that it would have been quite easy for the bullet to go through JFK's back, neck and then the man in the front seats back, without it being a "magic bullet". The front seat was not right in front of JFK and actually lower. He set left and turning right. It then went to disprove that he did it for the mob/Castro?USSR. Then it proved pretty much everything in the movie JFK was made up. For instance, Oswald was a sharp shooter in the marines, not a bad shot as they described them. Also an 89 year old doctor managed to fire 3 shots in 7 seconds, so it would have been quite possible for Oswald to do it in 8.

The best part about it was the end, in which Jennings ended it with a quote from someone who said perhaps the reason we look for conspiracy is because we feel it would balance the scale(i.e. Holocaust was a terrible crime/Nazi's are the most hated criminals but JFK dying we need to tell ourselves that the people who were behind it were much worse than Lee Harvey Oswald, and a conspiracy would balance it against the tragedy of JFK being assasinated)

[Chuck]

Looks like Yoda!

[BucDawg40]

Go see Bubba Ho-Tep if you really want to know what JFK looks like today.

[KWhit]

I think that John Wilkes Booth appeared to Oswald in a vision and along with all the other past and future presidential assassins ended up talking him into killing JFK to make a name for himself.

[Leonidas]

I could just see JFK, at 86, doing a little mentoring with Clinton.

JFK: Billy, it's alright to get yourself a piece every now and then. You were the most powerful man in the world, by God. If that isn't worth the occassional hummer I don't know what does. But do you think you could have been a little more selective? Take me for example. I had some models, stewardesses, Marilyn Monroe for God's sake. And what did you do? Choose some chubby princess intern from Beverly Hills.

Your a disgrace to the office. And by the way, you could have handled that whole wife situation a little better. You never heard Jackie spouting off or pouting about my affairs.

[Senator]

I thought this was kind of eerie. Read what she says about her son John John and what his hobby is.

By GLEN JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer
BOSTON (AP) -- Even in her grief, Jacqueline Kennedy had the
strength to recount her husband's assassination in vivid detail and
the presence of mind to convey her hopes for his memorials.
"His last expression was so neat," Mrs. Kennedy told
journalist Theodore H. White in comments released for the first
time Friday. "He had his hand out, I could see a piece of his
skull coming off ... and I can see this perfectly clean piece
detaching itself from his head.
"Then he slumped in my lap," she said. "His blood and brains
were in my lap.
"I kept saying: `Jack, Jack, Jack' and someone was yelling:
`He's dead, he's dead.' All the ride to the hospital I kept bending
over him saying: `Jack, Jack, can you hear me, I love you Jack.' I
kept holding the top of his head down, trying to keep the brains
in," she said on Nov. 29, 1963, a week after the president's
assassination.
Excerpts from the interview have appeared in Life magazine and
White's 1978 memoir, "In Search of History," and the sight of the
dazed widow in her bloodstained pink suit has become a 20th century
icon. Now, the John F. Kennedy Library has released the full record
of that interview, 34 pages that include White's handwritten notes
and revisions in Mrs. Kennedy's handwriting.
White donated the papers to the library in 1969, saying they
could not be released until one year after the former first lady's
death. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis died of cancer May 19, 1994, at
age 64. White died in 1986.
The transcript shows her hopes after the assassination included
privacy for herself and memorials for her husband.
"I wanted that flame and I wanted Cape Kennedy. ... All I
wanted was his name on just that one booster, the one that would
put us ahead of the Russians," she said, apparently referring to
the rocket to the moon.
The eternal flame still burns at Kennedy's grave at Arlington
National Cemetery. And while Cape Canaveral was renamed for Kennedy
on the day of White's interview, the rocket that went to the moon
was not.
Cape Kennedy went back to being called Cape Canaveral in 1973,
although the NASA base there continues to be called the Kennedy
Space Center.
"I'm not going to be the Widow Kennedy," Mrs. Kennedy told
White. "When this is over, I'm going to crawl into the deepest
retirement there is."
Though she personified celebrity for more than 30 years, she
remained largely a stranger to the public that adored her. Even
after she married Aristotle Onassis, a Greek shipping tycoon 30
years her senior, she couldn't change her image as First Widow.
Speaking of her 3-year-old son, Mrs. Kennedy said: "I want
John-John to be a fine young man. He's so interested in planes;
maybe he'll be an astronaut or just plain John Kennedy fixing
planes on the ground."
She recalled that her daughter, Caroline, "held my hand like a
soldier. She's my helper; she's mine now."
John F. Kennedy Jr. is a lawyer and publisher. Caroline also is
a lawyer and co-author of a book on the Bill of Rights; she's
married and has three children.
White became close to the Kennedys when he chronicled the
presidential campaign in his best seller "The Making of the
President, 1960."
The interview marked the first time "Camelot" was linked to
the Kennedy administration in print. In an excerpt published
decades ago, Mrs. Kennedy recalled that her husband loved the
recording of the musical "Camelot."
"The lines he loved to hear were: `Don't let it be forgot, that
once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment that was known
as Camelot,'" she said.

[kcchief19]

Issue 1: The Alamo is the most overrated national monument of all time. It's the size of a phone booth and is full of amazing displays such as a hat that is a replica of a hat that was once owned by a guy who had a cousin who knew somebody who had a uncle that was at The Alamo. Sorry HFP, I have a hard time putting The Alamo and Pearl Harbor in the same sentence.

Issue 2: Two reasons why people believe there was a conspiracy of some sort involving the assasination: (1) nothing about the story makes since -- the fact that Oswald defected to Russia and came back without any penalty or being watched closely is the modern equivalent of taking John Walker Lindh and giving him a blank check and a gun and sending him out on the streets of America; and (2) the Senate Select Committee on Assasinations in 1978 concluded that there was sufficient evidence to suggest that there was a conspiracy and Oswald did not act alone, but they proceeded to lock all the documentation away under the guise of protecting national security. If there wasn't a conspiracy, opening up the National Archives and let us have at it for ourselves.

[Senator]

Issue 1: You are wrong.

Issue 2: I understand why you think this because of Issue 1.

[thealmighty]

LBJ did it with the help of Hoover and lots of his 'friends'. One of the main people involved in the conspiracy was Clint Murchison, Texas oil czar and Owner of the Dallas Cowboys.

At least, that's what I watched tonight on the History Channel. It was very interesting, on the whole, and made perfect sense, as do most true conspiracy theories.

[SFL Cat]

Sometimes the easy answer is the right one. I wonder how many millions have been generated for authors hawking their Kennedy Conspiracy Theories in books or videos.

[thealmighty]

dola...

Issue #1: since all you have to look at and visit is a BBQ eatery, I can see where you could be a bit off in your assessment.

[thealmighty]

didn't quite get fast enough for that dola, there.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by SFL Cat
Sometimes the easy answer is the right one.Ockham's Raisin.

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by thealmighty
LBJ did it with the help of Hoover and lots of his 'friends'. One of the main people involved in the conspiracy was Clint Murchison, Texas oil czar and Owner of the Dallas Cowboys.

Great, another reason for people to hate the Cowboys... :rolleyes:

[kcchief19]

Originally posted by Senator
Issue 1: You are wrong.

Issue 2: I understand why you think this because of Issue 1.
Issue 1: Which part of The Alamo is the most stirring? The IMAX Theater, the Daughters of the Republic of Texas Library or the gift shop? The actually "shrine" at the The Alamo is roughly the size of my bedroom. That being said, I understand why Texans love The Alamo because many of you have secret believe deep in your heart that Texas really is still its own country. For those in the other 49 states who see Texas as just one of us, The Alamo is not that far different from most other historic battlefield sites. The Alamo just has good press.

Issue 2: Has nothing to do with think -- those are the facts. If you want to dispute the Select Committee on Assassinations findings, then take that up with the Senate and get them to release all the documents so everybody can stop arguing about it.

[sterlingice]

Fine, I admit it. I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll.


















Wait, I was born in 1979. Never mind.

SI

[Buccaneer]

All of the anti-conspiracy folks are missing one important thing. Everyone seems to be (and have been) focusing on whether Oswald was the only gunner or not. I truly believe he was BUT everyone (including Warren and the various assassination sites) glossed over whom Oswald (again, acting alone) was working for. To me, I have a very deep conviction as to the 'why' that I have detailed here in the past. Nothing I have seen or read have ever contradicted that.

[HornedFrog Purple]

For instance, Oswald was a sharp shooter in the marines, not a bad shot as they described them. Also an 89 year old doctor managed to fire 3 shots in 7 seconds, so it would have been quite possible for Oswald to do it in 8.

At last count, Oswald's military files have never been accessable (unless this has changed recently). In the Marines, you are graded on marksmanship especially being a sniper. I would assume this is based on word of mouth testimony and not actual documentation. Also the question really isn't whether he could get 3 shots off, it is whether he could get 3 shots off with the degree of accuracy with a rifle the Italian rifle dubbed "the humanitarian rifle". If Oswald was a professional sniper, he could have easily gotten a much more accurate rifle in the city he did it in in a matter of hours instead of mail ordering one. The notion he would take his chances in an 8 second span with inferior equipment is very unlikely to me if he is a professional at what he does. The man was as literate as a 3rd grader.

The Warren Report ignored or glossed over anything that indicates motive in this case. Pretty damning for a federally prosecuted murder case to me. It would also open up a bag of worms confirming that operations such as one labelled Mongoose were actually going on at the time. This report had a chance to nip the whole conspiracy notion in the butt easily and failed miserably.

Edit: Just as an example, there are 12 HOURS of FBI interrogation confirmed by the Dallas police chief at the time and various officers that have disappeared. The Warren Commission was allowed access to this material and never produced it.

[33sherman]

Richard Nixon, of all people, told two top aides on his private tapes(from 1972) that the Warren Commission was "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated" on the American people.

Btw, most JFK conspiracy theory books are published by small independent publishers, and the authors get little or no money from their work. The biggest advance ever given to an author for a book a about the assassination was $250,000--for former Wall Street lawyer Gerald Posner's "Case Closed"(1993)--a book which defends the Warren Commission's Oswald lone gunman theory.

[lcjjdnh]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
At last count, Oswald's military files have never been accessable (unless this has changed recently). In the Marines, you are graded on marksmanship especially being a sniper. I would assume this is based on word of mouth testimony and not actual documentation. Also the question really isn't whether he could get 3 shots off, it is whether he could get 3 shots off with the degree of accuracy with a rifle the Italian rifle dubbed "the humanitarian rifle". If Oswald was a professional sniper, he could have easily gotten a much more accurate rifle in the city he did it in in a matter of hours instead of mail ordering one. The notion he would take his chances in an 8 second span with inferior equipment is very unlikely to me if he is a professional at what he does. The man was as literate as a 3rd grader.


Actually, they had the book where he recorded his results while in the Marines, so unless it was forged, there was actual documentation.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Ah ok I didn't see the special you were talking about, but Oswald's recordings have been around for years. I thought maybe they had gotten hold of more extensive and pertinent Marine/military documentation that had not been disclosed before. That stuff for some reason is part of what is supposed to be disclosed in 2027(?).

[kcchief19]

Clarificiation: I referred to the Senate Select Committee when it should have been the House Select Committee. My apologizes.

Secondly, I just read the story on ABC's Web site about their special, and while I generally give journalists the benefit of the doubt on bias, I think the person or persons behind that special made their decision upfront and then presented evidence only to support that theory. Several statements made in the article are true, but are either accidentally or intentionally misleading.

In the conclusion of the article: "Forty years later, there has not been a single piece of credible evidence to prove a conspiracy. "

Those quote marks are mine. They were not attributed to anyone, so we are led to believe they are the words of the author(s). That's a pretty presumptive conclusion for a journalist to make, especially since the House Select Committee concluded that there was indeed a conspiracy (meaning at least two people were involved) in the assassination.

As for the discussion above on his shooting skills, he was not trained as a "sharpshooter." He shot qualification scores like any Marine, and in 1956 he did qualify as a sharpshooter with an M-1, but sharpshooter is the middle of three qualifications a Marine could get at that time (top was Expert, Marksman was bottom). In 1959, shot the lowest possible qualifying score for Marksman. That may sound like he was a great shot to us non-military types, but according to the Marines, that made him a "poor shot."

I realize I'm fighting the case for conspiracy here, but frankly I don't know what happened. All I know is that a lot of the evidence that was used to pin it all on Osawld doesn't add up, but yet a lot of the crackpot conspiracy theories don't either.

My belief is that the turth is somewhere in the middle. There was more than likely a conspiracy of some sort, but how big and who was involved is a mystery.

The government has fed the conspiracy theories with secrecy. If Oswald was the shooter, then release all the evidence and let it stand. The only reason not to release the evidence is that the evidence hints at something negative or sinister -- and that's why there will always be conspiracy theories until all the evidence is presented.

[lcjjdnh]

I agree with your assesment of the situation that it is somewhere in the middle, I was just presenting another side of the story. But on the other hand, I feel Stone's JFK is too extreme to the other side. The truth is most likely somewhere in between these two extremes.

[44Niners]

So this guy Dale Myers takes a two-dimensional medium (the Zapruder film) and creates a 3D model.

Of course taking something 2D and turning it into 3D you must make assumptions about everything outside of the 2D data. Of course once you make one assumption you have transitioned from the “truth” into “theory” - I could make a 3D model that took the assumption that Marilyn Monroe shot him while Bugs Bunny and Elvis were egging her on but I’m not sure that would really “prove” anything.

I have said time and time again, part of the reason people come back to the Oswald theory is that it s the one they were told to believe, and as more and more ridiculous theories pile up, after awhile people don’t know what to believe and go back to the “official” theory.

I do not know who killed JFK, I have some theories but I am fairly certain (considering all I have read on the subject) it was not Oswald acting alone and Peter Jennings going on prime time and using some fancy 3D animation does not change my mind at all.