So whose CBB #1?

[MrBug708]

Is it Missouri? How can a Quinn Snyder team be number 1?

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Is it Missouri? How can a Quinn Snyder team be number 1?


Nahhh... I'm just glad we got past a good Oakland team last night. What a game.

Should be interesting this year though. I like the fact their schedule is tough this year.


Todd

[The_herd]

I've watched Duke play twice and as much as it pains me to say it, damn they look impressive. Luol Deng is an incredible talent, Reddick and Ewing keep getting better, and Duhon is playing more like he did as a Sophmore and less like he did as a Junior.

I know its really early, but has anyone seen a better freshman so far than Deng?

[Neuqua]

Luol is a monster. He could be the best player in the country in a season or so.

BTW, I'm a Duke fan so I try to keep myself out of these threads for the fear of getting ragged on.

[The_herd]

I also wanted to add that Florida looked real good the other night in beating Kansas. If Drejer turns out to be half the player Donovan thinks he can be, they are going to be a solid team with David Lee, Matt Walsh, and Roberson. Depth could be a problem though.

I'm not sold on UConn, I don't like Taliek Brown at the point and I'm not sure Denham Brown can keep his game at this level for the entire season. Right now this is team is Gordon, Okafor, and some question marks.

[rufusjonz]

UK UK UK - Kentucky -- don't forget who was #1 going into the tourney last year with like 26 strt wins. Elite 8 exit due to Bogans injury and Dwayne Wade monster game.

4 seniors playing prominent roles, 2 7 ft + frosh, tons of depth -- EASILY one of the best 4 in the country, AP be damned.

[Calis]

Well KU's got the #1 spot come next week, who knows how long they'll keep it.

Bad news about Lee going down in practice.

Not sure how they'll do this year actually, they have a pretty big turnover from last year, be interesting

Btw, sure ya know this, but Florida beat Arizona not Kansas. Florida looked good, very fun team to watch, and some great players.

I haven't seen enough teams play yet to decide on who's the best.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Calis

Btw, sure ya know this, but Florida beat Arizona not Kansas.



Yeah, I'm a retard sometimes.:)

Stuff like that usually happens when I'm typing and trying to tell my 2yo to drop something, not to touch that, or something of that sort.

[INDalltheway]

Everyone take a look at my "Purdue Kicked the Crap Out of Duke" thread to see my thoughts on Duke and Deng. Just let Deng sit outside and watch him miss the shots. That is all he did against the Boilers.

[The_herd]

I watched Deng knock down the same shots he missed against Purdue in the other 2 games I saw. Its early, so it remains to be seen if he can shoot consistently from the outside. Anyone can have a bad day, but at the same time anyone can get hot for a couple games. Deng should be a player to keep an eye on once ACC play begins.

[illinifan999]

Is North Carolina the most overrated team in the Top 25?

[PineTar]

Michigan State will get no consideration for #1 all season, but they will be tournament tested having played the most difficult schedule possibly of all time. Final Four is in the cards.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by PineTar
Michigan State will get no consideration for #1 all season, but they will be tournament tested having played the most difficult schedule possibly of all time. Final Four is in the cards.

Unless they don't make the tournament.....

[Pumpy Tudors]

New Orleans has defeated Texas State and Samford. We own the south. Privateers are #1!

[/threadkill]

[ice4277]

Originally posted by Samdari
Unless they don't make the tournament.....

Which has about the same odds of happening as Penn State winning the Big Ten in basketball (or football for that matter).

[albionmoonlight]

Originally posted by illinifan999
Is North Carolina the most overrated team in the Top 25?

I am a Tarheel fan, but I would have to say yes. Any other team with their question marks, save perhaps Duke or Kentucky, would have to prove its way into the top 25.

They have the potential to be really good, with three sickly talented player (May, McCants, and Felton) and one really good player (Williams). They also have a top 5 coach--which means a lot in the college game.

They have not, however, had the chance to do anything to show that they are not the NIT team from last year. When they are tested, and when/if they pass those tests, then we will know that they belong in the top 25. Until then, I agree that they should have to earn their ranking.

(Of course, this discussion is premised on the dubious assumption that preseason ratings mean anything at all).

[tucker342]

IOWA!!!!!;)

[JeeberD]

UTEP was the only college team to defeat the Globetrotters and they are now 3-0. We'll see how good the Miners really are when they play Texas Tech in Lubbock on Wednesday.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Texas Tech? I hope we wipe the floors with them... :D

[RPI-Fan]

We aren't #1, but GT has looked like a top-10 team thus far.

[the_meanstrosity]

I agree with RPI, I don't know if Georgia Tech is the #1 team or not, but they are awfully good. Texas is another school that has really looked good.

I still think UConn is the #1 team in the land regardless of the polls. They are going to be tough to beat come March Madness if they can stay healthy.

Kansas will probably get the #1, but as I stated before it's worth very little. They'll just be holding onto it until UConn wants it back. I can't wait till March to see who truly is #1.

[Radii]

Originally posted by illinifan999
Is North Carolina the most overrated team in the Top 25?


North Carolina is overrated at #10 for sure, but I think its fair to say that they belong in the top 25. They are, much like last year, an injury away from not being in the top 25, but for now, I'd say they belong in there at #15-#20 or so, and could creep up some... but starting at #10 is a little rediculous.

[Radii]

dola,

Kansas probably deserves #1 right now, Michigan State doesn't belong in the top 10 from what I have seen so far, and Duke is baffling right now, I have seen them play twice, against Detroit-something or other(I think Detroit Mercy) and about half of the Purdue game and boy they are looking shabby. Duke teams are usually very well coached and come out of the gates firing on all cylinders. The fact that they are struggling early like this makes me wonder if this Duke team isn't going to be as good as they look on paper. It's possible that they are just having some growing pains with Deng and they will be there at the end like they are supposed to be, but Coach K teams don't usually have the problems we've seen so far early...

[Butter]

Dayton Flyers... well, at least #10. :)

Oh, how I did enjoy watching the Xavier Muskies fall to Ball State and Indiana. How I hate Romain Sato....

[Comey]

I'd like to think that Kansas, via their win over MSU, will leap-frog Missouri and take the #1 spot.

The top ten, based on this past week:

1. Kansas
2. Florida
3. Mizzou
4. UConn
5. Duke
6. Arizona
7. Kentucky
8. MSU
9. UNC
10. Illinois

It's tough to predict. I mean, Georgia Tech looks like a team that can go a long, long way in the ACC. They're not Top 10 material, but is UNC? I originally had UConn and Duke 2 and 3, then 3 and 4. But Florida's got to climb.

MSU, while impressive in their loss to Kansas, was still sloppy to Bucknell (and I live within an hour of Bucknell...I know how that school is). Therefore, I can't rate them any higher than eighth, at least at this point in time. But that schedule is very good, and a reasonable Big Ten record guarantees entry into the Dance, in my opinion.

-John

[Comey]

By the way, I'm a big UConn fan. Have been since I was 10. But I try to stay as unbiased as possible.

[Bosco]

Originally posted by The_herd

I'm not sold on UConn, I don't like Taliek Brown at the point and I'm not sure Denham Brown can keep his game at this level for the entire season. Right now this is team is Gordon, Okafor, and some question marks.

The way Williams has been playing Taliek won't be running things after a few more games.

[Huckleberry]

I don't see how a Top 10 could exclude Texas at this point.

Texas basketball is the anti-Texas football.

[zums]

Illini have looked good so far. Even with the loss of Cook they may be a deeper team this year. Brown and Williams at the guard spots are very tough (and Williams learned to shoot this year, yikes!!) and Powell is just a man. I can see them winning the big ten, but maybe that is more my hatred of Michigan State than it is analysis.

-zums

[Neuqua]

I'm going to puke if I see Bill Self atop the polls.

[Calis]

Better have a bucket ready then. ;)

[illinifan999]

Originally posted by Neuqua
I'm going to puke if I see Bill Self atop the polls.

I'm glad he's gone, he only made the program worse in the tournament. But I will also puke.

Originally posted by zums
Illini have looked good so far. Even with the loss of Cook they may be a deeper team this year. Brown and Williams at the guard spots are very tough (and Williams learned to shoot this year, yikes!!) and Powell is just a man. I can see them winning the big ten, but maybe that is more my hatred of Michigan State than it is analysis.

-zums

I was just talking about this with a friend, and I agree. Deron Williams is in a lot better shape this year, and they just have so much depth. Sure it would have been nice to have been able to add Villanueva to the mix, but I"m happy with how they look right now. I guess we'll all be seeing just who is overrated on Tuesday. Hopefully it's UNC.

[the_meanstrosity]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by illinifan999
[B]I'm glad he's gone, he only made the program worse in the tournament. But I will also puke.

That has to be one of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time. You do realize that Bill Self has a winning record (10-5) in the NCAA tourney right? Self led Illinois to their first elite eight appearance since 1989. The following year he took them to the Sweet 16. He was also a finalist for the Naismith National Coach of the Year in 2003.

[illinifan999]

Yeah, but he lost to Notre Dame in the second round. That is a low point. Second round? Come on! You can't go steadily backwards after Elite 8 -> Sweet Sixteen -> Second Round. Other way till you go all the way. All he did was get my hopes up. :( And the whole promise to be there "for the long haul" thing just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[the_meanstrosity]

illinifan,

It's called a young and untested squad facing a similarly ranked Big East squad in Notre Dame. Let's not forget that Illinois had 3 freshmen and two sophomores starting on that squad and still found a way to compete for the Big 10 title that year. And Notre Dame had a talented squad that was certainly not considered an upset as a 4 vs 5 seed.

I'm sorry illinifan, but you're not by chance related to the Nebraska athletic director are you? You probably want to fire Coach K and Roy Williams just because they didn't win the national title last year.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Comey
I'd like to think that Kansas, via their win over MSU, will leap-frog Missouri and take the #1 spot.

The top ten, based on this past week:

1. Kansas
2. Florida
3. Mizzou
4. UConn
5. Duke
6. Arizona
7. Kentucky
8. MSU
9. UNC
10. Illinois

It's tough to predict. I mean, Georgia Tech looks like a team that can go a long, long way in the ACC. They're not Top 10 material, but is UNC? I originally had UConn and Duke 2 and 3, then 3 and 4. But Florida's got to climb.

MSU, while impressive in their loss to Kansas, was still sloppy to Bucknell (and I live within an hour of Bucknell...I know how that school is). Therefore, I can't rate them any higher than eighth, at least at this point in time. But that schedule is very good, and a reasonable Big Ten record guarantees entry into the Dance, in my opinion.

-John

Yeah, but at the end of the day, while it's nice for us to score that #1 spot on December 1, it's absolutely meaningless. Having a high preseason ranking in college football is the difference between being able to absorb one loss or not whereas getting #1 at this point in the year in basketball is absolutely nothing since having 30 games allows you to get some separation between teams that only 10 games doesn't.

SI

[Comey]

Agreed. I think it's almost meaningless to have a high ranking in college football anymore (in the beginning of the year), save for the mid-majors. Everyone but one team has an undefeated record, something I think we'll see more of in the future. Therefore, while the obvious comment of having the high ranking at the end of the year stands, I think having it earlier in the year isn't so much, because you have to think that, if you suffer a loss anywhere up to Week 5, you could easily reclaim your top spot.

Kansas is a team that can be there at the end. It used to be, see where Kansas comes out in the brackets, and find that 8 or 9 seed, because they had the best chance of being the team to knock out the first #1 seed. I'll hold judgment on Bill Self until I see Kansas in February.

Quite a shakeout in the Top 5, though. Never did see the top four lose this early.

Edit: I wrote a lot of gibberish, eh? Sorry about that...my head's jumping all over the place.

[the_meanstrosity]

Comey,

What do you mean you'll hold judgement on Bill Self until February? If you haven't seen him as a coach these last few years with Tulsa and Illinois, then you don't follow college basketball. The guys a good coach regardless of what he does at Kansas this year.

As for Kansas, I don't expect them to make it to the final four this year. They are a top 25 team without a doubt, but you don't lose two lottery picks as well as a head coach and expect to just reload. They'll be a much better team at the end of the season when the adjustments from Roy Williams' system to Bill Self's system is at least some what complete.

Sterling,

Agree whole heartedly. The polls are a popularity contest and don't reflect who the best team in the nation is. Thank goodness for the NCAA tournament. I love college basketball!

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Agree whole heartedly. The polls are a popularity contest and don't reflect who the best team in the nation is. Thank goodness for the NCAA tournament. I love college basketball!

The tournament reflects who the BEST team in the nation is?????

[the_meanstrosity]

Craptacular,

Simply, yes.

[Comey]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Comey,

What do you mean you'll hold judgement on Bill Self until February? If you haven't seen him as a coach these last few years with Tulsa and Illinois, then you don't follow college basketball. The guys a good coach regardless of what he does at Kansas this year.

As for Kansas, I don't expect them to make it to the final four this year. They are a top 25 team without a doubt, but you don't lose two lottery picks as well as a head coach and expect to just reload. They'll be a much better team at the end of the season when the adjustments from Roy Williams' system to Bill Self's system is at least some what complete.

Sterling,

Agree whole heartedly. The polls are a popularity contest and don't reflect who the best team in the nation is. Thank goodness for the NCAA tournament. I love college basketball!

I don't doubt Self's coaching ability overall. What I'll be watching to see is how he does in crunch time. His teams generally make it to the early-mid NCAA tourney, and then his teams runs out of gas. At Tulsa, it was just not having as much talent to go that long. At Illinois...I don't know if it was just unfortunate circumstances (ie injuries) or Self mis-managing his roster. I'd venture to say injuries, but I definitely have to check it out in more depth.

Anyway, that's why I'll hold judgment on Self's first year in Kansas until February. He passed the first test, taking out MSU. But let's see how he after he has a few dents in his roster, and the adjustments he makes.

And, while I know I am new here, I'll just go on record to let you know that college hoops is a passion of mine. It's my absolute favorite sport to watch and discuss. I know I'm writing a ridiculous amount of gibberish tonight, but after a decent night's rest, I might actually illustrate that I do watch the sport often. ;)

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity


Simply, yes.

I'll simply disagree. The consensus best team in the country can have a cold night and lose in the tournament. A good, but not great, team can get hot and go all the way ('97 Zona, '88 Kansas, '85 Nova, '83 NC St, etc). I'm not saying I'm against the tournament deciding the national champion, but I don't think the winner of the tourney is automatically the "best" team in the country. Syracuse was not the best team in the country last year.

edit to add quote

[Marmel]

Originally posted by Craptacular
Syracuse was not the best team in the country last year.




You are now on my shit list.

[Craptacular]

Wow, I figured it would take less than 5 minutes! :D

[Marmel]

I'll be expecting a new thread, started by you, with a full apology. You got 10 minutes.

[sterlingice]

I have to side with Crappy on this one. Just like any good team can lose on any given night, a pretty good team can get on a hot streak and string together 6 wins. A #16 will never win the tourney but a team with #4 seed talent can win some games against better teams.

I'd say that in football, the more talented (and that's talent all around including things like coaching and taking into account home field, weather, and other advantages) team wins more often than in basketball. In basketball, shooting has more of a chance of having an off or on night than most any skill in football where a player can play well above or well below his average talent level on any one given night. However, these things tend to average out. This is why the NBA plays 7 game series- it gives a more accurate representation of who really was the better team.

SI

[Marmel]

I'll agree 100% that the best team does not always win, but overall Syracuse was the best team in the country last year. they had the best player in the country in Carmelo and they ran through the so called best conference in the country (The Big 12) in the tournament like Subby and Fritz run through a jar of vaseline.

[the_meanstrosity]

Comey,

You do realize that Illinois had not been to the Elite Eight since 1989 right? Self took them to an Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen berth in his first two years. Last season he made it to the 2nd round with a very young squad and lost to a good Notre Dame team.

Self continued the incredible job done by Lon Kruger in turning Illinois into a Big 10 championship caliber basketball program. It will be interesting to see if Bruce Weber can continue that success from Kruger to Self and now to Weber.

Craptacular,

The "concensus best team in the country"? Is that some MTV award? I'm not certain why you think there is such a thing as the "concensus best team in the country". If a team is the "concensus best team in the country" then they should have no problem winning six straight games in March.

I'm sorry crap, but there is no such thing as the "concensus best team in the country". It's an opinion and nothing more. That's why they play the games to find out who is the best.

[illinifan999]

Originally posted by illinifan999
Is North Carolina the most overrated team in the Top 25?

Look at me choke on my words...:(

UNC got it done, Illini couldn't hit a free throw to save their lives.

[The_herd]

I don't know if UNC is a legit top 10 team right now, probably top 20, but anything higher than that may be pushing it this early.

One thing to remember about last years disaster was that they really were a different team with Sean May in the lineup. If they have him all season last year, they may have sqeezed out an NIT bid instead of a 20 loss season.

[Radii]

I absolutely love Sean May. He shows such solid fundamental post play, I love watching him on both ends of the floor. McCants is starting to play a little defense, and UNC isn't relying on him to score every time down. Jawad Williams has impressed the heck out of me too... This still isn't a consistant top 10 team I don't think, they just don't have the depth. If Byron Sanders could improve just a little bit, and David Noel can contribute once he returns from injury, we might have something here...

I was disappointed that UNC couldn't really put Illinois away in the final five minutes. As poorly as the Illini were shooting, UNC could have pulled away and made it insurmountable with 4-5 minutes to go. Instead, they let Illinois hang around. Overall though, I am damn happy with my Tar Heels right now :)