SO what's the best baseball sim out there

[Aggie2002]

you know, one that has full minor leagues and a career mode that lasts at least 30 seasons? Is there one that you guys hold above all others? Something that's realistic and hard that includes a salary cap like FOF.

[vtbub]

OOTP

[KWhit]

The best by far is OOTP, in my opinion.

[Aggie2002]

thanks guys. wow 3 for 3.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Even though I stopped playing at version 3, my answer would be OOTP.


EDIT : Wow, way too slow...

[Aggie2002]

I'll probably pick up version 5 for $19.95 online. Cool.

[Hurst2112]

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You haven't heard my vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OOTP...hands down.

:D

[cincyreds]

OOTP for sure.

[cincyreds]

Version 5 is the best yet.

[jened]

ootp5. there is a very active forum there and tons of mods. also online leagues are a blast to join (and kind of addictive). there's lots of different types - fictional players, historical leagues (ie, starting in 1978 and using real players, leagues which start with current rosters and either redraft or something. ootp6 will be coming out in a while, but i bet it's still 6+ months away.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by Aggie2002
you know, one that has full minor leagues and a career mode that lasts at least 30 seasons? Is there one that you guys hold above all others? Something that's realistic and hard that includes a salary cap like FOF.

The short answer is that OOTP best fits what you're looking for.

The longer answer is that Baseball Mogul and Puresim/Total Control Baseball also have career modes. I liked Mogul once, but find it too simplistic for my tastes; and Puresim leaves a bad taste in my mouth every time I try it. But I have very quirky tastes.

There are free demos for all three games, so it might be worth your while to give them all a try.

[Ben E Lou]

Definintely for what you're looking for OOTP is the way to go, although it still leaves a lot to be desired. Of the major sports, baseball lags behind in the text sim genre.

[Huckleberry]

I'm waiting and hoping that Diamond Mind develops a sister product that incorporates their projection formulas along with a player generator to create a franchise-capable simulation. Their actual simulation engine is superior to OOTP's simulation engine.

[Alan T]

ootp

[FBPro]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
I'm waiting and hoping that Diamond Mind develops a sister product that incorporates their projection formulas along with a player generator to create a franchise-capable simulation. Their actual simulation engine is superior to OOTP's simulation engine.

One thing to take into account w/ DMB is that the game merely reproduces stats "based off of" previous years stats and not ratings like OOTP, PureSim, etc.

Basically a glorified spreadsheet.

I've played it for years but now bores me.

[Huckleberry]

Have you ever used a projection disk? They incorporate age progression based on previous year's stats.

In my opinion, ratings are simply arcade game substitutes for ability. And in baseball, the only way to judge ability is to look at performance. So I guess my question is if what you really want is for DMB to replace all their statistical projections with Pr, Fr, Av, Vg, and Ex? The underlying simulation engine in OOTP works off the same principles as DMB, it just masks those very specific ratings with more generalized and rounded ratings. At least I hope it does.

[sabotai]

I'm in the vast minority on this one, but I had more fun playing Puresim2 than I did OOTP5. Both are really good, though, and if full minor leagues is a big selling point for you, then you should go with OOTP5.

[alterra]

Baseball is far and away my favorite sport but I pretty much hate all these games.

[bryce]

ootp is great for in-game management and playcalling, but you can easily get bogged down in a ton of other details with the minors, promotions, etc.

mogul is more simplistic than ootp, and doesn't have the in-game management, but you can get through a season much faster than with ootp, and the financial model is generally considered stronger in mogul.

i own both ootp and mogul, but find myself playing mogul more often, even though i'd prefer to manage the game a la ootp. the problem is that with 162 games, managing each game can take forever to complete a season. and i'm one of those people that if the option is available, then i'm going to want to utilize it, so ootp can bog me down.

speaking of mogul, what the hell has happened to that company - anybody been over at their bbs recently? are they about to close up shop or something? i never bought the most recent mogul (2004 maybe?), and still play last year's version (2003?), but when i checked the boards for 2004 a few weeks ago, i saw posts about developers leaving the company, and overall activity is near dormant. one post mentioned a soon-to-be released patch, but this was back in July, and it STILL hasn't been officially released that I can tell. anybody have the scoop over there? i'm hoping they stick around, but it seems they're close to turning out the lights.

i can't get past the demo in puresim. i don't know what it is about it, but it's just too monotonous for my tastes. but i've heard it has the most realistic engine of the three.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I haven't played the latest version of either OOTP or Baseball Mogul, so this might not apply any more, but I really enjoy Baseball Mogul, and haven't been able to get into OOTP.

I realize that I, too, am in the vast minority.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned OOTP as the best baseball sim yet. :)

[Leonidas]

Diamond Mind is the best "pure" baseball sim if you are looking to just recreate historical seasons, but it is straight play of recreated seasons only, no GM functions. OOTP is far and away the best incorporating GM functions. I want to start playing baseball again, but am really anxious for OOTP6 to come out. Markus has promised quite an overhaul.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by bryce
speaking of mogul, what the hell has happened to that company - anybody been over at their bbs recently? are they about to close up shop or something? i never bought the most recent mogul (2004 maybe?), and still play last year's version (2003?), but when i checked the boards for 2004 a few weeks ago, i saw posts about developers leaving the company, and overall activity is near dormant. one post mentioned a soon-to-be released patch, but this was back in July, and it STILL hasn't been officially released that I can tell. anybody have the scoop over there? i'm hoping they stick around, but it seems they're close to turning out the lights.

LOL. I did the same thing a few weeks ago. It's really quiet over there. I thought I remember reading somewhere on their boards a reference by someone saying that the developer got a "real" job somewhere else. I might be wrong, though. Sure doesn't look good, though, as far as activity and communication go.

[Maple Leafs]

Earl Weaver Baseball.

(But if you're looking for something from this century, go with OOTP)

[Huckleberry]

I'm honestly curious as to why people think there are no GM functions in Diamond Mind. I run a projection disk league with injuries. There are all kinds of GM functions in that league.

[korme]

i love ootp

[SlapBone]

Puresim is the best !!!

jk... I just wanted to be different. Actually there are a lot of things I like about Puresim but there are some other things that just bug me like the money thing.

[Huckleberry]

By the way, Aggie2002, I agree that OOTP is the best option by far given your criteria.

[Comey]

The money thing has been corrected. Shaun has a lot of ideas ready for the future. I think we'll see a lot of competition in the future.

For now, I say OOTP. I'll probably say that when OOTP6 comes out, too. I run my baseball league using OOTP5 (see in sig), and it's great. I play PureSim from tonight to time, but just can't get into it yet.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
I'm honestly curious as to why people think there are no GM functions in Diamond Mind. I run a projection disk league with injuries. There are all kinds of GM functions in that league.

If you play online and create everything yourself then you could say it has good GM functions. But the game itself has very little in the way of salary management, no trading function (except for what you tell it to do), no minor league function, no coaches, no scouts, all ratings are stat based and literal (no fog of war), no random growth or decline features on player talent. Simply, there is little guesswork. Yoy have aprojection disk based on basic algorithms that any stathead could figure out. And you do not have randomly generated players or the ability to play far into the future like OOTP (unless you manually create all of your new players). DMB is great for historic recreation, and has little to no comparison to OOTP for GM functions, aside from what you add into it. DMB does give you phenomenal flexibility to do what you like with your players and teams, but they are statistical simulacrons. OOTP breathes life into the players. DMB also has little in the way of AI, so playing solo really gets old fast.

[GoSeahawks]

I give another vote to OOTP, and I've played em all.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by Leonidas
If you play online and create everything yourself then you could say it has good GM functions. But the game itself has very little in the way of salary management, no trading function (except for what you tell it to do), no minor league function, no coaches, no scouts, all ratings are stat based and literal (no fog of war), no random growth or decline features on player talent. Simply, there is little guesswork. Yoy have aprojection disk based on basic algorithms that any stathead could figure out. And you do not have randomly generated players or the ability to play far into the future like OOTP (unless you manually create all of your new players). DMB is great for historic recreation, and has little to no comparison to OOTP for GM functions, aside from what you add into it. DMB does give you phenomenal flexibility to do what you like with your players and teams, but they are statistical simulacrons. OOTP breathes life into the players. DMB also has little in the way of AI, so playing solo really gets old fast.

Exactly, not trying to bash DMB but it it just extremely limited...though good in "what it does".

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
I'm honestly curious as to why people think there are no GM functions in Diamond Mind. I run a projection disk league with injuries. There are all kinds of GM functions in that league.

you're purposely being obtuse...

[tucker342]

OOTP hands down

[Marc Vaughan]

OOTP imho, although there are a few other decent ones about ...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by wbonnell
you're purposely being obtuse... Anyone else think of The Shawshank Redemption every time you hear the word "obtuse?"

[QuikSand]

I guess I'm with the majority here. I've played all three of the major career-based baseball sims (though i didn't play the latest version of Baseball Mogul, I confess) and I reached what seems to be the consensus here:

-Baseball Mogul has good elements, but is just too oversimplified for my tastes and those of most text sim gamers

-PureSim does a lot of things very well, but has some very serious problems that really do undermine the game (I am told that there are ways to make wholesale alterations in the game through adjusting some underlying file, but that became too labor-intensive for my tastes)

-OOTP has its faults and weaknesses, but it does provide a pretty stable and pretty realistic baseball sim, which for most text sim gamers' needs is probably the best current option


For Aggie's original question, I think I'd agree - OOTP5 is probably the best route to take, especially at the new discounted price.

[Northwood_DK]

This is just unbelievable and a great day for the FOFcentral-board. This must be the closest this board has ever been to agree on anything. :)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
This is just unbelievable and a great day for the FOFcentral-board. This must be the closest this board has ever been to agree on anything. :) I disagree. I wish there was at least some argument--that the genre had at least two excellent baseball games. In FOF vernacular, I don't see anything that rates better than "Good" as a baseball career text sim. I'm still hoping that OOTPx, Front Office Baseball, Total Pro Baseball or Whatever Company Baseball will be "Very Good" or "Excellent". Until then, I'll continue to play a little Mogul or a little OOTP5 for a while, then set them aside for a few months at a time.

[Subby]

OOTP is a complete piece of shit from the financial management angle. But it does allow you to schedule promotion days and get married.

So it has that going for it...which is nice.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Anyone else think of The Shawshank Redemption every time you hear the word "obtuse?"

No, I think "triangle".

[Aggie2002]

Thanks guys. I downloaded the ootp5 demo last night and played 4 games from 11:30 until 1am even though I was dead tired. I really liked it.

Is there any place I can go to download all the 2002 team logos? I was able to find the site that had the player stats and grabbed those. Very nice.

I could see myself playing in an online league in a few months.

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
I'm waiting and hoping that Diamond Mind develops a sister product that incorporates their projection formulas along with a player generator to create a franchise-capable simulation. Their actual simulation engine is superior to OOTP's simulation engine.

Is there talk of doing this? That would be incredible. I agree 100% on the game engine being superior, but I switched to OOTP because DMB is not a career sim. I sure do miss the play-by-play is great in DMB though.

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Aggie2002
Thanks guys. I downloaded the ootp5 demo last night and played 4 games from 11:30 until 1am even though I was dead tired. I really liked it.

Is there any place I can go to download all the 2002 team logos? I was able to find the site that had the player stats and grabbed those. Very nice.

I could see myself playing in an online league in a few months.

go here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/forumdisplay.php?forumid=64

[FBPro]

Originally posted by yabanci
Is there talk of doing this? That would be incredible. I agree 100% on the game engine being superior, but I switched to OOTP because DMB is not a career sim. I sure do miss the play-by-play is great in DMB though.

I'd be surprised though it isn't out of the question.

[CraigSca]

Originally posted by Subby
OOTP is a complete piece of shit from the financial management angle. But it does allow you to schedule promotion days and get married.

So it has that going for it...which is nice.

Right...it's as if Markus believes he's perfected everything, and can move on to simulating trivial things like endorsement contracts for popular players.

:sigh:

:rolleyes:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda....but dropping Franchise Baseball will probably be one of my biggest regrets in life.

[McSweeny]

Originally posted by CraigSca
Right...it's as if Markus believes he's perfected everything, and can move on to simulating trivial things like endorsement contracts for popular players.

:sigh:

:rolleyes:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda....but dropping Franchise Baseball will probably be one of my biggest regrets in life.

wasn't there some talk about you starting that up again? I think i have some old e-mails where we were discussing some design aspects

[CraigSca]

I have the framework down, and completely re-wrote the game engine. It's a lot "sharper" now...and takes advantage, to a certain degree, of Voros McCracken's research. I've always liked how fast it is - allowing you to play a day (including all 4 classes of minor league ball) in a few seconds.

I suppose it's an issue of confidence - I see the "pretty" games out there, and realize I could never HOPE to do anything like that. OOTP is lightyears ahead as far as interface is concerned -- the best I could hope for is an FOF-type interface. Still, there's a lot of work to be done to have the jazzy features some of the other products have, and it becomes disheartening.

At this point, it doesn't look like something I could do on my own - I would need cajoling by others (and probably active cajoling) in order to light the fire, so to speak. When I sent the emails out last year, I suppose that's what I was looking for, no matter how half-heartedly.

[McSweeny]

well get to work slacker! :D

OOTP is great and all, but it's not everything that a baseball sim should be. I keep waiting and waiting for someone to come along and put out the be all and end all of baseball sims. Solid from top to bottom. It sounds like you've got your priorities straight and you care about the engine first and foremost.

And don't get disheartend about all the pretty game and the glitz. You know what this crowd wants above all else don't you? I belive SkyDog had some kind words for the folks who were hung up about FOF not being pretty enough

[CraigSca]

Alright, alright, now you've done it :)

Just cracked open the source again. It ain't pretty...but I kinda like it. I've always appreciated the simplicity of FOF and Jim's belief that having an accurate game engine is uber alles. The "immersion" is up to the user, but that falls in line after the engine is "correct".

Let me take a look at this and see what I can do...

[HeavyReign]

I say go for it. There were quite a few people here hoping for a Front Office Baseball game. If you could deliver the kind of game they were looking for, those people would support you.

[sabotai]

Go for it Craig. OOTP never would have happened if Markus thought "Diamond Mind is lightyears ahead..." and PureSim never would have happened if Shaun thought "OOTP and Mogul are lightyears ahead...". As long as you get a solid engine going and enough to make it fun, people will buy and play it. And if you needing help is an issue, well, I really don't have much of a life. :) If you need any "part-time" help, just ask.

I think the SkyDog is a dictator thread just goes to prove how much free time I have on my hands. :D

[alterra]

I'll say it again: Baseball is far and away my favorite sport, but I more or less hate every baseball sim I've ever tried. If a baseball sim as good as tcy or fbcb ever came out, my career and sex life would be over.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I must be completely out of the loop. I'm still playing Baseball Pro '98 and loving it... Tiger stadium, oh how I miss you!

[Aggie2002]

Someone mentioned Earl Weaver baseball earlier. I think that was my first baseball sim back in '86 or '87. We played in the dorms while I was in college with an 8 person league. We all loved it.