Red Sox-Ranger trade?

[Sharpieman]

Why has no one posted about this potential trade that would be the biggest in a few decades?

The Sox would get A-Rod
The Rangers would get Manny
And I think the Dodgers or Padres would get Nomar
And it looks like once all the money issues are worked out that this trade will go through.

[Ksyrup]

Because it doesn't look like it will happen.

First, Texas wants Boston to eat ARod's contract AND pick up another $5M or so of Many's contract - meaning that ARod will cost almost $30M a year. Then, they've still got to decide what to do with Garciaparra - they've got to have a deal ready for him if they do the ARod deal, and I haven't seen any promising indications that there is a deal that will work. I haven't heard any specifics of players who would be involved in a Garciaparra to the West Coast deal. It may happen, but I just can't see Boston willing to spend that much on ARod.

[bryce]

it's a hot topic on the airwaves today in dfw. here's what i've heard:

-arod desperately wants out of texas - he and buck are at odds worse than has been reported.
-the rangers want boston to pay 5mil a year of manny's contract (the rangers want to save 10iml a year- 5 of that would automatically come from trading arod for manny straight up.)
-previously the rangers were only listening as other teams approached them, but now texas is actively contacting other teams about arod.
-anaheim is also in the running for nomar, but the dodgers appear most likely.

[digamma]

I've heard that Nomar would go to the Angels for Adam Kennedy and minor league prospects.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
...this potential trade that would be the biggest in a few decades?

If you consider Rodriguez, Ramirez, and Garciaparra all moving to be part of one trade - then I suspect this would be the biggest trade in baseball history.

[rkmsuf]

Red Sox will not eat any of the Manny deal nor should they. Boston is the only team that resonably matches up with Texas to facilitate an A-Rod deal. Eventually Hicks will settle for modest savings in lew of trying to have Boston foot more of the bill.

[CraigSca]

From a Red Sox point of view, I just don't see this happening. Sure, ARod is an upgrade over Nomar, but not an astronomical one and certainly nowhere near the delta in salaries.

I know the Red Sox are pushing to quickly play catch up to the Yankees, but the salary for ARod could severely cripple their flexibility for years to come. I really, really, don't see what the Red Sox gain from this.

Of course, I haven't seen the back-end deal for Garciaparra after ARod is acquired...but they would have to come out with MORE talent and LESS payroll on that deal. Is that going to happen? If not, you've basically have given away Garciaparra and Ramirez for ARod + unknown backend talent and taken on much more payroll. Can they afford to do this?

[JimJam19]

This deal, from what I hear, is a lot closer to happening, then not. The Yankees have almost forced the Sox to pull the trigger. They applied the pressure with Vasquez and soon Sheffield. And by landing ARod, the Yanks really cant counter that move in this "war" between the two.

I dont understand though is how Nomar is being offered around like hes a player who will do a decent job on another team. This guy is an All-Star himself, one of the top SS in all of baseball, and all they want is Adam Kennedy?? I know the point of trading him will be to subtract his salary and reduce the payroll, but in my opinion, if this trade was to happen, what the Sox get in exchange for Nomar will make or break it.

And I know ARod is the greatest player in the game, and if it were my choice I would rather have ARod than Manny and Nomar, but is it gonna bulster the offense that much when they are going to be losing both Manny and Nomar? So as I said before, in my opinion, it will depend on what they get for Nomar, and Adam Kennedy just wont do it.

[rkmsuf]

Originally posted by CraigSca
From a Red Sox point of view, I just don't see this happening. Sure, ARod is an upgrade over Nomar, but not an astronomical one and certainly nowhere near the delta in salaries.

I know the Red Sox are pushing to quickly play catch up to the Yankees, but the salary for ARod could severely cripple their flexibility for years to come. I really, really, don't see what the Red Sox gain from this.

Of course, I haven't seen the back-end deal for Garciaparra after ARod is acquired...but they would have to come out with MORE talent and LESS payroll on that deal. Is that going to happen? If not, you've basically have given away Garciaparra and Ramirez for ARod + unknown backend talent and taken on much more payroll. Can they afford to do this?

They are much better off since Nomar will likely walk. Factor in A-Rod chasing glorious records in the later stages of the deal and it is not out of question. Manny is a doink so ridding yourself of that is a bonus.

I'd guess you'd see Nomar for lesser players/prospects thus reducing overall payroll. Pitching is the most important thing so I don't see it as a big deal. One thing Theo was able to do last year was come up with 2-4 million dollar alternatives in places like the outfield.

Perhaps they could package Damon and Nomar and get someone like Garrett Anderson also...

[Subby]

I just don't get this trade for the Red Sox. They had the most prolific offense in baseball history last year. They lost the series because of managing and untimely pitching.

Why trade a favorite son (Nomar) just to <i>maybe</i> get slightly better on offense?

[Ksyrup]

Nomar is not the Nomar of 3 or 4 years ago. ARod is a significant upgrade over Nomar2003. I know Texas wants more savings than $5M a year, but that's only for the next 4 years. They still save by taking the last 3 years of ARod's contract off of their books. I think that more than equals the extra $5M in savings they want now - or at least, I'd feel that way if I was Boston.

If it happens, it happens. Good pub for baseball and it shakes things up a bit.

[rkmsuf]

Originally posted by Subby
I just don't get this trade for the Red Sox. They had the most prolific offense in baseball history last year. They lost the series because of managing and untimely pitching.

Why trade a favorite son (Nomar) just to <i>maybe</i> get slightly better on offense?

a. Nomar is likely to bolt after this year.

b. Manny is a jackhole. I suspect Henry and Luchino can't stand him...

[Ksyrup]

I did read that the Angels were looking to deal Washburn and/or Ramon Ortiz. If the Sox could land one of them in a deal for Nomar - now that would be a nice rotation.

[rkmsuf]

There is the possibility also that this story was floated merely to put the Rangers and the Red Sox back into the paper...

Hicks: "Hey John, those Cowboys get the headlines everyday down here..."

John Henry: "Yeah, those Pats won't lose. How can we get baseball back into the headlines."

Hicks: "Well son how 'bout we pretend we are trading Manny and A-Rod?"

John Henry: "Sounds like a hoot..."

[Vince]

You mean Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield and Kim isn't a nice enough rotation? How about pitching Pedro on day one, Wakefield on day two...go from trying to adjust to fire (Pedro) to a knuckleball (Wakefield). Then you go to Schilling (more fire) and then Kim (Submarine). Finally, you close with Lowe. I don't think the Sox need another pitcher, frankly.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Vince
You mean Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield and Kim isn't a nice enough rotation? How about pitching Pedro on day one, Wakefield on day two...go from trying to adjust to fire (Pedro) to a knuckleball (Wakefield). Then you go to Schilling (more fire) and then Kim (Submarine). Finally, you close with Lowe. I don't think the Sox need another pitcher, frankly.

I think Wakefield is ideally suited to long reliever/spot-starter - that's where he has the most value. Kim, I'm not sure what he's ideally suited for, other than possibly the nut house. Didn't I just read that they were considering non-tendering him?

In short, I think this team could use one more true starter.

[bryce]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
There is the possibility also that this story was floated merely to put the Rangers and the Red Sox back into the paper...

Hicks: "Hey John, those Cowboys get the headlines everyday down here..."

John Henry: "Yeah, those Pats won't lose. How can we get baseball back into the headlines."

Hicks: "Well son how 'bout we pretend we are trading Manny and A-Rod?"

John Henry: "Sounds like a hoot..."

heh, yea, except the rangers are used to not getting any pub. about the only time they grab headlines is feb-april. may-june is all about stars and mavs playoff runs (and not coincidentally, may-june is also about the time the rangers fall out of the playoff race.) july through january is 100% cowboys.

[dawgfan]

I think it would be poetic justice if the Red Sox passed on this deal and Hicks and A-Rod were forced to live with the ridiculous contract they created.

I would be mad if the Sox bailed Hicks out and A-Rod was able to wiggle his way on to a contender. A-Rod had his moment of freedom and opted to go to the highest bidder regardless of the collateral damage that contract would create around him. He could've stayed with the M's or gone to Atlanta or the Mets, all for what would've still been the highest salary in the game, and been on contending teams. Instead he opted for as much gold as he could possibly get to join a team that was years away from contending and crippling their payroll to make upgrading the pitching staff very difficult.

Let Hicks continue to pay for his folly of irresponsible spending, and let A-Rod waste his most productive years on a team that will be lucky to hit the .500 mark.

[bryce]

Originally posted by dawgfan
I think it would be poetic justice if the Red Sox passed on this deal and Hicks and A-Rod were forced to live with the ridiculous contract they created.

I would be mad if the Sox bailed Hicks out and A-Rod was able to wiggle his way on to a contender. A-Rod had his moment of freedom and opted to go to the highest bidder regardless of the collateral damage that contract would create around him. He could've stayed with the M's or gone to Atlanta or the Mets, all for what would've still been the highest salary in the game, and been on contending teams. Instead he opted for as much gold as he could possibly get to join a team that was years away from contending and crippling their payroll to make upgrading the pitching staff very difficult.

Let Hicks continue to pay for his folly of irresponsible spending, and let A-Rod waste his most productive years on a team that will be lucky to hit the .500 mark.

bitter mariners fan, perhaps? ;)

in all seriousness, it is ironic that arod wants out of texas now, and the only thing preventing it is the contract he sought out and signed...

[sachmo71]

The fact that we are talking about swapping a $20 million dollar a year player for a $25 million dollar is the biggest problem we have here. This "baseball arms race" between the Sox and Yankees is insane.

[oykib]

Hicks is a moron if he deals A-Rod for Manny straight up.

Simple question: Is A-Rod $5 million better than Manny?

Even simpler question: Will A-Rod be $5 million better than Manny three yeaars from now?

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Ronnie Dobbs2
Re: The Manny-Arod-Nomar trade thing

I was thinking today, why can't we ship Nomar out to LA/Anaheim for a 2nd baseman and 5 million a year for the length of Manny's contract? Have them pay the difference. Anaheim might not be able to do that, but LA should, especially if they're getting a franchise player for next to nothing...

Because MLB will not allow trades where money is one of the main commodities going one way in the deal. Selig talked about that not too long ago, and he actually forced the Yankees and Reds to redo the Gabe White deal because the Yanks were essentially purchasing White for $3M. That wouldn't fly.

[j51]

Originally posted by dawgfan
He could've stayed with the M's or gone to Atlanta or the Mets, all for what would've still been the highest salary in the game, and been on contending teams. Instead he opted for as much gold as he could possibly get to join a team that was years away from contending and crippling their payroll to make upgrading the pitching staff very difficult.

Actually the Rangers had won the division 3 out of 4 years (only to run into the 90s Yankees buzzsaw every single year) before Arod signed. They had a pretty quality team until Hicks came along and screwed everything up, just like he screwed up the Stars by blindly throwing money around.

[sachmo71]

Well, Hicks signed Hull and Belfour, and they were both pretty important to winning the cup.
Hicks problem is that he is blinded by star power, and he isn't very patient.
With the Stars, Hicks got lucky. He paid for some top quality free agents, added them to a very good core team and won the cup.
With the Rangers, they were on the verge of contention, but were never able to get the pitching to get them deep. In both cases, you're right..he threw money at the team, and went for the quick fix. Didn't work, but he is learning. One thing is obvious; he doesn't like losing. The problem is that it's at this point when you learn the most about how to manage a ball club. He brought Hart in to fix the Rangers overnight, and it blew up in his face...or it's still blowing up. Getting rid of A-Rod might be an important step for him in learning about how to build a champion from the ground up.

Wait, did I just use the words "champion" and "Rangers" is the same post? :)

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by j51
Actually the Rangers had won the division 3 out of 4 years (only to run into the 90s Yankees buzzsaw every single year) before Arod signed. They had a pretty quality team until Hicks came along and screwed everything up, just like he screwed up the Stars by blindly throwing money around.

Most people that looked at the condition of the Rangers franchise in the offseason following 2000 saw a team with a lot of very good hitters, albeit aging and facing probable decline. They also saw a pitching staff that didn't inspire much confidence. The minors had some promising hitters working their way up, some of whom have started making an impact, but not really much pitching help on the horizon.

Projecting forward, this was a team that already had a pretty good hitting attack, but really needed help with their pitching. Adding another great hitter for $25M per was going to severely cramp their ability to improve their pitching, a problem that was compounded by the Park signing that blew up in their face.

A-Rod admitted when he signed that it might take the Rangers a few seasons to be winners, something that wouldn't have been an issue with the M's, Braves or Mets. Now, when that rebuilding continues and his overbearing contract is constricting the ability of his team to improve their weaknesses, he wants out to a winner - he wants his cake and the ability to eat it too.

I have a fair amount of bitterness over the whole A-Rod saga, but only because it was the Rangers and for the ridiculous sum he managed to land. This directly contradicted all his media B.S. prior to his signing about how he was interested in winning above other things.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by oykib
Hicks is a moron if he deals A-Rod for Manny straight up.

Simple question: Is A-Rod $5 million better than Manny?

Even simpler question: Will A-Rod be $5 million better than Manny three yeaars from now?

Well, of course he is. That's why it's not the trade on the table. That's why he wants an extra $5M+ per year to pay Manny. Is A-Rod worth $10M more than Manny in today's terms? I dunno- $10M can buy you a decent pitcher or two.

Originally posted by bryce
in all seriousness, it is ironic that arod wants out of texas now, and the only thing preventing it is the contract he sought out and signed...
Ironic, no. Poetic justice, perhaps :D

The A-Rod deal reminded me a lot of what happened to Mike Hampton. He signed in Colorado for an extra year on a contract and $500K more per year. And look where he is now: trying to put together a former all-star career that was destroyed by Coors Field.

Originally posted by sachmo71
The fact that we are talking about swapping a $20 million dollar a year player for a $25 million dollar is the biggest problem we have here. This "baseball arms race" between the Sox and Yankees is insane.
Not a whole lot of teams can claim that trade, that's for sure (well, 2 to be exact). But you know what- if they each want to piss away $200M per, I wouldn't care as much if the conditions were right. Unfortunately, they don't exist in a vacuum and every decision these jackasses make fucks over every other team. If New York and Boston don't pay their players that much, Los Angeles doesn't look like they do (although it looks like they won't have those contract for much long as Brown and Dreifort are gone after next year and the current ownership isn't for hemmoraging cash), Atlanta doesn't try to keep up in the 90s, the A-Rod contract doesn't exist, and Peter Angelos isn't about to go make an ass of himself (well, ok, he is, but on a lesser monetary scale).

I'm happy that some of this is correcting itself. The market is really depressed for any player not targeted by the Yankees or Sox. Pudge is on top of the world after winning the series, and everyone is putting him back up there as one of the big two catchers of this generation (sorry, Posdada, not yet). But since New York and Boston already have catchers, he's getting flybys from the Cubs and Orioles and that's really it. Vlad's the best young hitter of our generation but if the Yanks or Red Sox don't go after him, he gets $2-$5M less per year. So, basically, everyone else is letting those two live in their own dreamland and everyone else fills their rosters with players the big 2 don't target.

The second problem with them is arbitration. All an agent has to do to win is whip out the numbers of the overpaid Yankee at their same position and they win because the arbiter doesn't care that the Yankees play on a different financial field than everyone else. That's why we have another slow free agent season- everyone's waiting until after the arby deadline which is in the next couple of days. No one wants to offer their players arbitration because they'd get more than their free market value if that free market didn't contain King George.

SI

[rexallllsc]

Dodgers = PLEASE GET NOMAR!

[Ryan S]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Selig talked about that not too long ago, and he actually forced the Yankees and Reds to redo the Gabe White deal because the Yanks were essentially purchasing White for $3M. That wouldn't fly.

You never know, Selig has different rules for the Red Sox. (See the Scott Williamson trade earlier this year)

[daedalus]

Selig has different rules for small market teams, period. He wants them to fail so they can justify what he's been claiming all along, that small market franchises cannot compete. Perhaps that's suppose to be why his Brewers have been so pathetic so long, nothing to do with incompetent management or anything. Not at all.

I can't find it anymore but I remember an article on ESPN awhile back where they described how the Florida-Atlanta-Colorado deal with Hampton was SUPPOSE to have gone down - Atlanta was suppose to have taken early brunt of the Hampton contract with the Marlins taking the later part so that they can afford to go out and add salaries to compete and build a fan base BEFORE taking on Hampton's salary. Then Selig decided he needed to screw the Marlins over by changing the way it had to work and have the Marlins pay the early part of the contract. Luckily, he didn't succeed and the Marlins managed to be competitive - something his Brewers STILL haven't managed to do - in SPITE of his scheming.