How bad will Mizzou be screwed?

[MrBug708]

Caught paying recruits (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1682697)


Not looking so good for the Tigers, but that's the "price you pay"

[Butter]

Coach K: Where did all this money come from? Who taught you how to do this stuff?

Wonderboy: You, alright! I learned it by watching you!

[panerd]

Yawn.

To begin with Mizzou has known about these tapes for months, and so has the NCAA. The media has only gotten a hold of these tapes today. They are well aware that it will come down to their word against a lying criminal with an ax to grind.

One allegation was that he was paid by check. Funny how the FBI couldn't find this check during their investigation. Be careful about the source before you take this one too far. Nothing will happen to Mizzou, the main mistkae they made was recruiting and trying to help this fool get his head on straight.

PS: I have far more information if you wish to read more.

[albionmoonlight]

Regardless of these allegations:

I think that they should make Mizzou pay a $5 fine every time some announcer refers to him as a "Coach K disciple." We could collect enough money to pay off California's debt.

[bamcgee]

Smoke = fire. We all know that Missouri is guilty because they're all a bunch of lying, cheating, no-good, rotten bastards...

(go ku!)

[MrBug708]

THey cheat in the 1850's during an election, they cheat nowadays in Basketball

At least Michigan got a National Title game appearance for their scam

[panerd]

One correction to my previous post. (An edit would look too sneaky) I am not even sure that Ricky Clemons has an ax to grind. Hell, Quin and the University president tryed to save that kid. I would say "saavy" reporters have an ax to grind. Watching this Mizzou coverage locally is analogous to a bleeding heart liberal watching FOX news channel for war coverage.

[Butter]

I mostly hate Quin Snyder because my wife thinks he's hot.

Lose, Quin, lose! :p

[kcchief19]

Originally posted by MrBug708
THey cheat in the 1850's during an election, they cheat nowadays in Basketball

The 1850s what? I need a history refresher.

To a large degree, unfortunately I think this is a case of why you have to draw the line as to how low you go character-wise when you recruit a player. Clemons has no credibility -- there is no reason to believe a word he says. In the past, he has said his mother is dead (she's alive) and that he was once on all-star team that went to Alaska where he saw a moose (wasn't on the team, hasn't been to Alaska, didn't see a moose).

I think there is little doubt that colleges, particularly in basketball, flirt with paying players or flat out do it all the time. What you have to avoid is recruiting a player who will later burn you for it, like Chris Cole and Georgia. Ricky's career is over and the university has cut him loose, so he's looking for revenge.

It appears that nothing he alleges has been proven by anyone. The FBI had the tapes and handed them over to the media after concluding their investigation, and nothing is coming of that. And the FBI office that was investigating the tapes was the same office that prosecuted Myron Pigues for paying AAU players and defrauding federal-funded universities by endangering their eligibility, so I think if they found something that would stick and help "clean up" college athletics, they would have gone for it.

[MrBug708]

Methinks KcChief has been to the Missouri message boards and starting to believe the "conspiracy" theories

As for Myron Piggie, damn him for screwing over JaRon Rush

[WSUCougar]

Originally posted by kcchief19
there is no reason to believe a word he says. In the past, he has said his mother is dead (she's alive) and that he was once on all-star team that went to Alaska where he saw a moose (wasn't on the team, hasn't been to Alaska, didn't see a moose).
This might have been more credible if he wasn't on the team, hadn't been to Alaska, but DID see a moose.

[the_meanstrosity]

Prior to the tapes being released I thought Missouri would get a slap on the wrist. Now I think Missouri is in BIG TROUBLE. These tapes were just recently released to the NCAA. The FBI were using these tapes in their investigation thus the NCAA has not had a chance to really listen to the tapes. Now that the FBI has dropped their investigation, the NCAA is getting to listen to these comments.

The eerie thing is that there's an internal war brewing at Missouri. President Floyd and the assistant AD Stewart are after current Missouri AD Mike Alden according to the soundbytes. They did not like the fact Alden pulled Clemmons scholarship. And some of their comments are actually pro-investigation so they can hang Alden out to dry. Very strange indeed.

For those who are trying to make Clemmons out as the scapegoat, understand that he's not the only one making comments on the tape. Floyd and his wife are on the tapes as well as the assistant AD and his wife. There are a lot of people who could lose their jobs because of the comments on this tape.

And one more interesting thing. Clemmons actually refers to EVERYONE at Missouri as being "shady", lol. He says that the only reason Quin and others are nice to him is to keep him quiet. Really bizarre stuff going on in Missouri.

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Prior to the tapes being released I thought Missouri would get a slap on the wrist. Now I think Missouri is in BIG TROUBLE. These tapes were just recently released to the NCAA. The FBI were using these tapes in their investigation thus the NCAA has not had a chance to really listen to the tapes. Now that the FBI has dropped their investigation, the NCAA is getting to listen to these comments.

The eerie thing is that there's an internal war brewing at Missouri. President Floyd and the assistant AD Stewart are after current Missouri AD Mike Alden according to the soundbytes. They did not like the fact Alden pulled Clemmons scholarship. And some of their comments are actually pro-investigation so they can hang Alden out to dry. Very strange indeed.

For those who are trying to make Clemmons out as the scapegoat, understand that he's not the only one making comments on the tape. Floyd and his wife are on the tapes as well as the assistant AD and his wife. There are a lot of people who could lose their jobs because of the comments on this tape.

And one more interesting thing. Clemmons actually refers to EVERYONE at Missouri as being "shady", lol. He says that the only reason Quin and others are nice to him is to keep him quiet. Really bizarre stuff going on in Missouri.


C'mon this isn't the twilight zone, Missouri will be just fine. This sounds more like an Alfred Hitchcock movie than some kid pissed off at a college.

Let's get back to basketball.


Todd

[kcchief19]

The word "on the street" is that the athletic department and the NCAA both knew about the tapes and had heard them. The FBI hadn't made the tapes public, but that apparently doesn't mean that they didn't share them. The FBI was only interested in an alleged threat made to a witness in the Bunge case. It had nothing to do with anything else. I think the earlier indication that the NCAA investigation will be wrapped up shortly will remain accurate, and there will be penalties, but it will fall short of a post-season ban.

Reading some of the articles posted, I'm disgusted as a Missouri graduation for some of the goings-on, and it has nothing to do with Quin and his team. It sounds like Quin was genuinely trying to take care of Clemons in a fatherly way, but once Ricky stepped over the line, Alden stepped in and ended it. Then the wife of the university system president stepped in along with the wife of associate athletic director Ed Stewart and tried to start a coup by using Clemons.

President Floyd's career is over -- he couldn't get named president of a dog obedience school after this. If he has any class whatsoever, he would call in Ed Stewart and fire his ass, then resign immediately.

[the_meanstrosity]

Chief,

That's a different take. Most of the Missouri fans I know think the only one who isn't crooked in this whole ordeal is Mike Alden. They believe Snyder should go for the clothes and possible money. And Floyd and Stewart for their obvious actions against Alden.

Could you imagine the Missouri athletic department right now? Alden now knows Floyd and Stewart want him gone. Amy Stewart referred to assistant coach Odom as " a damn snake". And Alden and Snyder are still having issues. How do they continue to work together with all of this dirty laundry being aired out?

This stuff is like a big soap opera.

In the KC area right now they are airing the "cracker" comments from Floyd's wife. This is just insane.

[panerd]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Chief,

That's a different take. Most of the Missouri fans I know think the only one who isn't crooked in this whole ordeal is Mike Alden. They believe Snyder should go for the clothes and possible money. And Floyd and Stewart for their obvious actions against Alden.


Well, ALL of the Tiger fans I know are unaware of MOST of the facts and have not made a judgement on Quin. But I would guess being a KU fan you would have the skinny on the pulse of the Mizzou program. Maybe I will ask Arafat how most Isrealis feel about the peace accord.

EDIT: The one regret I have about posting here is that it keeps bumping this shit up to the top.

[the_meanstrosity]

Panerd,

Sorry, but if you haven't heard most of my family are die-hard Tiger fans. And if you listen to the radio in Kansas City, you can hear a lot of Tiger fans venting right now. There are a lot of loyal fans who are disgusted at going through this with Pinkel having such a great year in football.

[the_meanstrosity]

kcchief,

They just had the St. Louis Post Dispatch on the radio yesterday here in KC and they reported that the NCAA just days ago received the tapes. So the "word on the street" is incorrect. These tapes were held by the FBI and had not been released to the NCAA until recently.

My take on the tapes has been it still doesn't prove anything. The only thing the NCAA can prove at this point is that Quin Snyder gave Ricky Clemons clothes. I don't know how they'll prove money exchanged hands unless the assistant AD or President Floyd knows something and starts talking.

Also coming out of KC today is that President Floyd may resign. But Floyd stated in a press conference this afternoon that he will not resign.

[Samdari]

The tapes allege that payments to Clemons were by check, cashed by Clemons' girlfriend/punching bag, right?

Isn't this easy to prove/disprove? If they in fact did this, there should be an extra year NCAA ban for stupidity.

Sorry panerd, but from what I can gather, the common perception of Snyder (along with Florida's Donovan) among fans is that he is one of the most eggregious cheaters in the game, and that it is only a matter of time before both programs are in major trouble. Not that this perception means anything, as fans don't know, but as has been pointed out before, where there is smoke, there's often fire (except what the Maryland forums say about SU, those are lies :) ).

As for Clemons being a disreputable source, he is no more so than Tony Cole. And Georgia did everything Cole said they did. This does not prove Mizzou's guilt, but it does make me willing to give Clemons the benefit of the doubt. It can also be hardly painted as sour grapes, trying to bring the program down with him (as was so easy to do with Cole). Clemons is not trying to get this publicized, he has not been on ESPN (that I saw) and don't the tapes say he WON'T do that, because Snyder stuck by him. Hardly seems like he has motive/willingness to attack Snyder.

In a shocking twist, everyone at Mizzou has denied all wrongdoing.

[the_meanstrosity]

Samdari,

You are correct in that Clemons hasn't talked to the media. The whole "whistle blower" angle is thrown out the window since Clemons isn't talking to the press, but is instead talking to the President and associate AD's wife. Clemons isn't talking to anyone in the media. Clemon's ex-girlfriend, Jessica Bunge, went to the media, but as of yet Clemons has not gone to the media.

Mike Alden is coming out of this looking like a million bucks. I have a feeling President Floyd is gone. A couple of assistants will be gone and perhaps Snyder. The associate AD will be gone as well. It's a possible house cleaning at Missouri.

[panerd]

Originally posted by Samdari

Sorry panerd, but from what I can gather, the common perception of Snyder (along with Florida's Donovan) among fans is that he is one of the most eggregious cheaters in the game, and that it is only a matter of time before both programs are in major trouble. Not that this perception means anything, as fans don't know, but as has been pointed out before, where there is smoke, there's often fire (except what the Maryland forums say about SU, those are lies :) ).



Well I can't argue with what you precieve as common perception, but I will say this. I think kids want to play for Quin and Donovan because they are cool and can relate to them. Now you or I may say that is stupid why not play for Roy Williams or Bobby Knight or Coach K, but realize that neither of us are 18 year old high school seniors. I am a teacher and deal with kids all day and a lot of seniors I know are choosing colleges for "party" and closeness to girlfriend and not on what programs of study they offer. I don't think Quin or Billy have to offer up bribes to get people to play for them. (IMO)

[the_meanstrosity]

Panerd,

It's not just young coaches that players want to hang out with. Let's not forget current Missouri guard Josh Kroenke's beer buddy, Larry Eustachy, lol. He's obviously "cool".

And if you think bribes don't happen in college sports, you are mistaken. See the troubles at Baylor. Baylor's not even getting top talent yet they were paying players. It happens everywhere in college sports.

If Clemons was telling the truth about Snyder giving him clothes, then he could be telling the truth about the assistants giving him money. It would not be the first time Snyder's assistants have gotten caught in an investigation. It was only months ago when they got caught in the Conley recruitment.

[panerd]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
It was only months ago when they got caught in the Conley recruitment.

Yeah, that must be why he is ineligible to play for Mizzou. Oh wait, that's right he is playing for us this season! :confused:


If Clemons was telling the truth about Snyder giving him clothes, then he could be telling the truth about the assistants giving him money. [/QUOTE]

Please don't teach any classes on logic anytime in the near future. Should we forget about his dead mom? (Who is alive and well. Who the hell lies about their dead mom?) Or what about the moose he saw when his team played in Alaska? (What? Rickey Clemons has never been to Alaska?) You're right, I can't believe I would take a person of Quin Snyder's background word over a criminal? What was I thinking?

[Ragone]

That whole cracker comment ordeal is hilarious.. if this was a white chancelors wife at missouri.. and she used the N word in a taped conversation.. the chancelor would already be gone..

reverse discrimination at its finest folks.. (no i'm not really bitter)

Missouri is gonna end up being blown up... one of the asst coachs was fired from eastern michigan for stealing money from players.. so if quinn isn't fired.. look for his asst's to get cleaned out

My prediction:Missouri will get what georgia got last season. being told late in the year it can't get to the ncaa's + loss of 1-2 scholarships next year + 24 hours at the Dave Bliss Sensitivity and ncaa Compliance classes for Quinn

[Samdari]

Originally posted by panerd
Well I can't argue with what you precieve as common perception, but I will say this. I think kids want to play for Quin and Donovan because they are cool and can relate to them. Now you or I may say that is stupid why not play for Roy Williams or Bobby Knight or Coach K, but realize that neither of us are 18 year old high school seniors. I am a teacher and deal with kids all day and a lot of seniors I know are choosing colleges for "party" and closeness to girlfriend and not on what programs of study they offer. I don't think Quin or Billy have to offer up bribes to get people to play for them. (IMO)

Well, Donovan flat out pays kids. Very few of us have insider's knowledge of college basketball. Mike Montgomery does, and he told us what's up there. There is way, way too much smoke coming from the Florida basketball offices for there not to be some fire.

I will reserve judgement on Snyder. He would have easily been on my "least likely to cheat list." But, the problem is, there have been allegations of misconduct regarding more than one player. That is never a good sign.

In fact, while we are on the topic, does anyone remember high profile allegations such as this leveled at a major program which later proved to be totally untrue? The fact that most of these things end up being true is what has me leaning towards believing something funky is up at Mizzou.