Tice gone?

[Wasabiak]

Interesting article (http://vikings.kfan.com/sports/nflguide/local/story.aspx?content_id=6B1D5EE2-8A5C-4A30-8EDB-E1D0D9C92EF6) on KFAN.com

They make it sound like he's gone. Oh well...........Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[Ksyrup]

And here I thought the owner's pep talk after the first loss of the season was the real reason this team went in the tank.

[jerem77]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
And here I thought the owner's pep talk after the first loss of the season was the real reason this team went in the tank.


As much as it pains me to defend the Vikings coach in any way, i think Red is the one responsible for the teams collapse. Its interesting that everyone (up here anyway) is saying he should be fired because of not making the playoffs when at the beginning of the season this team wasn't even supposed to contend.

[Ksyrup]

Look at it this way...the Packers also lost to the Cardinals. No excuse for that, either, it just didn't happen to be the last game of the season, so no one quite remembers it happening. If you give both of them mulligans on the Cardinals' games, the Packers still make the playoffs, and the Vikings are home with a 10-6 record.

Edit: Or would they have made it as a wild card? Bah, I hate these damn things.

[Cringer]

I'm rather tired of people ripping on teams for losing to the Cardinals AT HOME. Yes the team was horrible on the road, but they did pretty good at home except thier first game against Seattle.

Lose 38-0 to Seattle
Win 20-13 over GB
Lose 28-16 to Baltimore
Win 16-13 over SF in OT
Win 17-14 over Cincy
Lose 30-27 to St. Louis in OT
Lose 20-17 to Carolina
Win 18-17 over Minn.

4-4 at home, one win over a playoff team (GB), 2 wins over teams in the playoff chase until week 17 (CIN, MIN) and then almost pull off wins against 2 division winners (STL, CAR).

No they are not a good team, but for whatever reason played good at home this year.

I say all this because I just don't think the guy should be canned based on this game.

[Wasabiak]

Ok, let's base it on the other 3 games he lost to 4-12 teams. Face it, the players made plays when they were put into position to make them. But the coaching in Viking land this year overall was horrible. Linehan has to go for sure. Think what you want.

[Cringer]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Ok, let's base it on the other 3 games he lost to 4-12 teams. Face it, the players made plays when they were put into position to make them. But the coaching in Viking land this year overall was horrible. Linehan has to go for sure. Think what you want.

Oh i completely defer to you in this situation, you obviously followed them a lot more closely then i would have. I just wanted to show that i don't think losing to the Cards at thier home is such a complete disgrace.:)

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, Peter King noted that the Vikings lost to the 4 teams holding the 1st through 4th draft picks. That's hard to do and still be in competition for a playoff spot, let alone make it to the playoffs.

[The Afoci]

I guess I have troubles blaming Tice for a defense that was 1 deep at best. I have troubles blaming Tice for having one reciever that can get open and runs routes correctly(Moss). The guy took a team that should have been 5-11 at best if you look at the roster and with smoke and mirrors got them to a 6-0 start. Injuries to LB's put in some very young fast LB's that ran all over the place, but didn't do much until late in the season. I also have troubles blaming Tice for the front office giving him Denard Walker and saying here, this is the shut down CB you wanted.

[Wasabiak]

Do you have a problem with Tice passing on what would have been the game winning FG to go for it on 4th down early in the game? You ALWAYS take the points. Always. Poor coaching.

[Wasabiak]

I'm just sayin'...........

I followed this team all year. I saw all the mistakes. Good coaches, like Parcells and the guy in NE, take ho hum teams to the playoffs. I'm just sayin'.

[rkmsuf]

Originally posted by Cringer
Oh i completely defer to you in this situation, you obviously followed them a lot more closely then i would have. I just wanted to show that i don't think losing to the Cards at thier home is such a complete disgrace.:)

The way it happened was a complete disgrace. Playing like that with everything on the line, playing an inferior opponent, with the lead and having the season on the line is indication of either lack of talent or lack of focus.

You never see good teams or good coached teams lose that game...

I'd say the same about the Rams...no excuse...

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
The way it happened was a complete disgrace. Playing like that with everything on the line, playing an inferior opponent, with the lead and having the season on the line is indication of either lack of talent or lack of focus.

You never see good teams or good coached teams lose that game...

I'd say the same about the Rams...no excuse...

Exactly. So here's what i'd do. Fire everyone, pack everything up, move to LA and go win a Superbowl. Then i can get Wild season tickets. End of story.

[Samdari]

I'd be really surprised to see Tice go after two years. He was clearly hired by an owner knowing that he was a "project" as a head coach, a guy who would be learning on the job for the first few years. You hire someone like that to get the finished product, which you expect to be great, not expecting immediate results, which you should expect to be questionable. You can only afford to take that chance when you know your talent level is in a rebuilding stage (at least the defense is).

Given those things (which I realize may be misguided impressions of mine) I don't see where it makes sense to fire Tice. It would seem to be that they should not really begin to see results next season or possibly later.

[rkmsuf]

Originally posted by Samdari
I'd be really surprised to see Tice go after two years. He was clearly hired by an owner knowing that he was a "project" as a head coach, a guy who would be learning on the job for the first few years. You hire someone like that to get the finished product, which you expect to be great, not expecting immediate results, which you should expect to be questionable. You can only afford to take that chance when you know your talent level is in a rebuilding stage (at least the defense is).

Given those things (which I realize may be misguided impressions of mine) I don't see where it makes sense to fire Tice. It would seem to be that they should not really begin to see results next season or possibly later.

They shouldn't fire him; the players like playing for the guy but clearly he needs to get better.

He's the type who is great in non-pressure or good situations. I think the questions come when the chips are down or things aren't going well...

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
I'm just sayin'...........

I followed this team all year. I saw all the mistakes. Good coaches, like Parcells and the guy in NE, take ho hum teams to the playoffs. I'm just sayin'.

Well, we aren't getting Parcells or any great coach in Minnesota. He is the least paid head coach in the league.

[RoastDuck]

It matters not a jot if the Vikes lost some games to supposedly inferior teams. Remember they beat the Packers on the road and had notable wins against KC, Seattle and Denver. Look at the season as a whole - did they do better than you would have thought before the season kicked off? I suggest they did, 9-7 is a credible improvement from 6-10. What makes the season seem a heck of a lot worse was that dragster start - it set expectations too high for a team of limited talent. If Tice is gone then he is unlucky IMHO.

[Wasabiak]

BTW, the Vikings led the league in penalties this year. They had more than the Raiders, for Christ's sake.

That's bad coaching my friends.

[Wasabiak]

Here's a quote from Startribune.com..........Make of it what you will.

"There have been whispers around Winter Park for some time that McCombs does not like Tice all that well personally. Obviously, if Tice had taken the Vikings back to the playoffs in his second season, Red would look like an idiot to fire him.

Now, after a last-play loss to an injured, inept Arizona team, McCombs has his opening to dump Tice. With Red, we should know quickly -- maybe before noon -- if he plans to take it."

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
BTW, the Vikings led the league in penalties this year. They had more than the Raiders, for Christ's sake.

That's bad coaching my friends.

That can be bad coaching, a young team, or just a bad team.

[rkmsuf]

Red is not the sharpest tool in the shed so it wouldn't be a total surprise...

[Ksyrup]

BTW, it just occurred to me...didn't the Vikings pull something like this on the Giants in the playoffs a few years ago?

[Wasabiak]

41-0? How can i forget?

[Cringer]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
41-0? How can i forget?

Yeah, that had to have hurt. I know the Packers getting spanked my the Rams a couple years ago in the playoffs still hurts and brings up nightmares.

[The Afoci]

The great thing about the 41-0 loss was that it was over early and the healing was able to begin sooner. ;)

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
41-0? How can i forget?

No, that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the Vikes being behind late in the game and scoring twice to win.

[Wasabiak]

hmmmmm.....Yeah, i guess i remember that game, in New York, right?

So what's your point chief?

[mckerney]

Firing Tice would be a huge mistake, one that would require nothing short of hiring Bob Stoops as a replacement to make up for.

The team lacked depth with the restrictions on spending they had, something you cannot blame Tice for. Give Tice some time and resources and he can do great things with this team.

It would seem however, that they need to hire a real QB coach for Dante. They also need a new kicker and a right tackle who isn't constantly penalized. The defense is showing promise on the line and if they're allowed to spend to add a few new players, they could have a very solid team next year.

[Wasabiak]

Know what? You may be 10000% right, but tell Red that. He's the one with the trigger finger. At this point, i couldn't care less what the hell they do. The team is cursed. It's futile.

[mckerney]

Red also needs to sell the team to Glen Taylor, as he has probably learned by now he will not be able to move this team as easily as he thought.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
hmmmmm.....Yeah, i guess i remember that game, in New York, right?

So what's your point chief?

Nothing really, it just hit me that the Vikings experienced the same thing they did to the Giants a few years back, that's all.

[Wasabiak]

While we're all sitting here reminiscing, i find myself having flashbacks of the old Tommy Kramer to Ahmad Rashad hail mary that beat Cleveland in 1980 and propelled the Vikings into the playoffs. Ah yes.........The good old days of Viking football.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

I think the Vikings should fire Tice. There is no reason why this team should not be in the playoffs after starting 6-0.

There are good replacements out there that I think would do a great job. Tom Coughlin comes to mind. Dick Jauron. Dave Wannstadt.

Dennis Green. ;)

[miami_fan]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
I think the Vikings should fire Tice. There is no reason why this team should not be in the playoffs after starting 6-0.

There are good replacements out there that I think would do a great job. Tom Coughlin comes to mind. Dick Jauron. Dave Wannstadt.

Dennis Green. ;)

There is the answer! Dave Wannstedt for Randy Moss!:D

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Know what? You may be 10000% right, but tell Red that. He's the one with the trigger finger. At this point, i couldn't care less what the hell they do. The team is cursed. It's futile.

Are they really cursed, like Curse of the Babe or the Billy Goat Curse?

Or is this some curse made up by bitter Viking fans, kind of like the Saints curse?

:D

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by miami_fan
There is the answer! Dave Wannstedt for Randy Moss!:D

They didn;t fire Dave yesterday.

Damn it. I lost $5 on that....

Thought it was a given.

[Wasabiak]

Hell yeah!!!!!! Hop onto the Fire Tice Bandwagon!!!!!!! Come one, come all!!! Don't be shy.

Coughlin would be perfect. I 2nd the motion.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Are they really cursed, like Curse of the Babe or the Billy Goat Curse?

Or is this some curse made up by bitter Viking fans, kind of like the Saints curse?

:D

Actually, it's been about 42 years in the making.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
I think the Vikings should fire Tice. There is no reason why this team should not be in the playoffs after starting 6-0.

There are good replacements out there that I think would do a great job. Tom Coughlin comes to mind. Dick Jauron. Dave Wannstadt.

Dennis Green. ;)

And any of those are supposed to be an improvement? :confused:

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by mckerney
And any of those are supposed to be an improvement? :confused:

Yea. Except for Dennis Green.

Coughlin is a proven winner, 2 AFC Championship appearances.

Jouron even took the Bears to the playoffs with a average team. Were they 13-3 a couple years ago?

How about Jim Fassel? He's been to a Super Bowl.

I've never been a fan of Tice. But the collapse this season was too much.

[mckerney]

I'd rather have Tice, only rational you're offering is Tice hasn't had a chance to prove himself.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by mckerney
I'd rather have Tice, only rational you're offering is Tice hasn't had a chance to prove himself.

Oh, quite the contrary, he HAS proven himself.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by mckerney
I'd rather have Tice, only rational you're offering is Tice hasn't had a chance to prove himself.

Maybe that will work, I don't know for sure. But what I do know is that the Vikings had the talent and opportunity to make the playoffs this year and they didn't get it done. This will go down as one of the all time collapses in NFL history.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Maybe that will work, I don't know for sure. But what I do know is that the Vikings had the talent and opportunity to make the playoffs this year and they didn't get it done. This will go down as one of the all time collapses in NFL history.

Right, just like the 98 Vikings, the 87 Vikings, the 89 Vikings, the 2001 Vikings, etc, etc.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
But what I do know is that the Vikings had the talent and opportunity to make the playoffs this year

I won't argue the opportunity portion of this, but to say that the talent on this team is playoff level is wrong IMO. The offense was average without a 100% Bennett and other than Moss, no reciever could get open.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
I won't argue the opportunity portion of this, but to say that the talent on this team is playoff level is wrong IMO. The offense was average without a 100% Bennett and other than Moss, no reciever could get open.

I don't think so. I think there is a good team. Certainly playoff caliber, given their division. They beat some good teams as well. I wouldn't say they are Super Bowl caliber yet, but they have the talent to play with just about anyone.

[Wasabiak]

Right, now all they need is a good coaching staff and they'll be all set. :rolleyes:

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
I don't think so. I think there is a good team. Certainly playoff caliber, given their division. They beat some good teams as well. I wouldn't say they are Super Bowl caliber yet, but they have the talent to play with just about anyone.

That is because the offense played some good ball this year. Defensively, they were weak most of the season. Until the last few games, they had at best 2 LB's who you could put on the field and expect to make tackles. One was slow(Biekert), one injured(Claiborne) and the others were too young and inexperience(Henderson, Natiel, etc). The D-line was greatly improved once Williams was put next to Hovan, but the Lance Johnstone couldn't stop his mom from running the ball by him. The secondary was hit and miss. It was either INT or TD.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Right, now all they need is a good coaching staff and they'll be all set. :rolleyes:

Maybe.

Are you saying there is some other reason why they didn't make the playoffs?

The lack of a efefctive #2 reciever?

I don't think so.

I think it was a poorly coached and led team.

Parcells took the Cowboys to the playoffs and the Ravens rode the arm of Anthony Wright to a division title.

:)

The Vikings have abetter offense than both and their defense, while not as good as Baltimore or Dallas, can shut down good a good offense, like Kansas City, Green Bay...

[Ragone]

Right now the vikings need to take Dewayne Washington behind a shed and shoot him.. he's a lame horse db :)

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
The Vikings have abetter offense than both and their defense, while not as good as Baltimore or Dallas, can shut down good a good offense, like Kansas City, Green Bay...

Green Bay W 30-25 Looks like the D won this game for them. :rolleyes:

Chicago W 24-13 It is Chicago!

Detroit W 23-13 It is Detriot!

San Francisco W 35-7 Probably the best the team played to this point.

Atlanta W 39-26 Another great defensive effort! :rolleyes:

Denver W 28-20

New York Giants L 29-17 Just bad all together.

Green Bay L 30-27 Scoring 27 points should be a victory. Defense let them down.

San Diego L 42-28 Same as above.

Oakland L 28-18 Another bad game.

Detroit W 24-14 It is Detriot!

St. Louis L 48-17 A bad game in the second half. Offense put D in bad spots.

Seattle W 34-7 Great game, young LB's started coming together.

Chicago L 13-10 It is Chicago! The offense lost this game.

Kansas City W 45-20 Great offensive and defensive effort.

Arizona L 18-17 Both sides of the ball struggled, but the offense should have scored more and the defense shouldn't have given up 18 points to Arizona.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Green Bay W 30-25 Looks like the D won this game for them. :rolleyes:

Chicago W 24-13 It is Chicago!

Detroit W 23-13 It is Detriot!

San Francisco W 35-7 Probably the best the team played to this point.

Atlanta W 39-26 Another great defensive effort! :rolleyes:

Denver W 28-20

New York Giants L 29-17 Just bad all together.

Green Bay L 30-27 Scoring 27 points should be a victory. Defense let them down.

San Diego L 42-28 Same as above.

Oakland L 28-18 Another bad game.

Detroit W 24-14 It is Detriot!

St. Louis L 48-17 A bad game in the second half. Offense put D in bad spots.

Seattle W 34-7 Great game, young LB's started coming together.

Chicago L 13-10 It is Chicago! The offense lost this game.

Kansas City W 45-20 Great offensive and defensive effort.

Arizona L 18-17 Both sides of the ball struggled, but the offense should have scored more and the defense shouldn't have given up 18 points to Arizona.

Concerning the first game against Green Bay, Minnesota built a 27-3 lead thanks to forcing 3 interceptions in the first half and holding Ahman Green to 53 yards rushing, 3.5 ypr ave. and 2 TD's. I'd say the defense did a lot to win that game.

Concerning the Atlanta game, they only gave up 20 points when it really counted, if you deduct a garbage time TD pass from Doug Johnson.

The Vikes defense forced 3 turn overs and collected 2 safeties.

[The Afoci]

They may have built a 27-3 lead, thanks to the offense scoring 27 points, but the defense still managed to give up 22 more points that game. The defense was okay this year, but started to come together. I do believe that next year with one or two additions, the defense will be very good and if the offense could add a second reciever that can get open and run the proper routes, the team will be a 12-4 type team.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
They may have built a 27-3 lead, thanks to the offense scoring 27 points, but the defense still managed to give up 22 more points that game. The defense was okay this year, but started to come together. I do believe that next year with one or two additions, the defense will be very good and if the offense could add a second reciever that can get open and run the proper routes, the team will be a 12-4 type team.

It is the NFL, you can't expect to shut down an offense like Green Bays the entire game.

[The Afoci]

They gave up 21 points per game. That is with 4 games against Detriot and Chicago, two teams not known for offense. That along with an offense that struggled at times to score shows me a team that isn't a playoff team. They play great at home, but crappy on the road. To me that is the sign of a young, inexperienced team that is a year or two from being good.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
They gave up 21 points per game. That is with 4 games against Detriot and Chicago, two teams not known for offense. That along with an offense that struggled at times to score shows me a team that isn't a playoff team. They play great at home, but crappy on the road. To me that is the sign of a young, inexperienced team that is a year or two from being good.

Obviously it was a playoff type team. They started 6-0, no other team has started 6-0 and not made the playoffs in 25 years. They were one play away from winning their division.

This team could have won this division with competent leadership.

This team should have won that division. The blame falls where it always should when stuff like this happens. Poor coaching.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Obviously it was a playoff type team. They started 6-0, no other team has started 6-0 and not made the playoffs in 25 years. They were one play away from winning their division.

This team could have won this division with competent leadership.

This team should have won that division. The blame falls where it always should when stuff like this happens. Poor coaching.

Exactly.......End of story.

[The Afoci]

My point is that this team was 6-0 because of great coaching at the beginning of the season. The team then went 3-7 after numerous defensive injuries and teams caught on that a run to the outside was gold against this squad. There is no denying that this team at home was a good or great squad. But on the road, they are absolutely pathetic.

So are you saying if they would have went 9-7 and started 3-3 that the coaching job Tice did this year would have been good. If anyone would have said at the beginning of this year that the Vikings would have been one play from the playoffs and winning the division, you would have been called crazy. Tice said when the team was 6-0 that they weren't very good and it proved true.

[Wasabiak]

You are missing the point!!!!! This team had HOW MANY opportunities to wrap up a playoff berth???? When it comes down to winning the last game against a horrible team to punch your playoff ticket, you better f'ing have your team ready. This team wasn't ready. This team got outcoached in every phase of the game yesterday.

[The Afoci]

You can only take certain talent so far. That is all I am saying. Should the Vikings beat Arizona on the road, yes. Should they beat Kansas City at home, no. But both happened. You can't say that talent won them the KC game but couldn't win the Arizona game.

Now my point is that is was great coaching in the first 6 games that got this team to the point of having the chance for the playoffs at all. Not all of this goes to Tice, O'Leary was able to make a bad defence look average for much of the season.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
You can only take certain talent so far. That is all I am saying. Should the Vikings beat Arizona on the road, yes. Should they beat Kansas City at home, no. But both happened. You can't say that talent won them the KC game but couldn't win the Arizona game.

Now my point is that is was great coaching in the first 6 games that got this team to the point of having the chance for the playoffs at all. Not all of this goes to Tice, O'Leary was able to make a bad defence look average for much of the season.

The Vikings certainly have the talent to beat the Chiefs. Thats how they beat the Chiefs.

Tice could have done better. They should be preparing to play in the wildcard round right now with a home game and a nice shot at making it to the second round. They have enough players right now, which is why they were 9-7. Bill Parcells would have won the NFC Central with this Vikings team a long time ago, IMHO.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Bill Parcells would have won the NFC Central with this Vikings team a long time ago, IMHO.

Yet another brilliant, almost certain statement from my good, close friend Die Hand.

Red, you get what you pay for.

Which.........leads me to this thought. What did yesterday do to any potential future stadium issues? Fuck, i don't even want to think about it.............

[mckerney]

I have to agree with The Afoci. There are several places where they need to upgrade before they're ready to be a serious contender. Luckily they're playing in the NFC Central, where no team really deserved to go to the playoffs, Green Bay got in as a 9-6 team that got a walkover in week 17.

The coaching staff helped the team this year, they didn't hurt it.

[The Afoci]

Yes, but comparing Bill Parcells to Mike Tice is insane. Unless you can bring in a Coach like that, keep Tice and improve the team. Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games), the recievers dropping passes(Bates) isn't the coaches fault, and the players missing tackles and such isn't his fault.

Against Chicago, on one play, Bates drops a ball that hits him in the hands and would have been a TD. In the Arizona game, Elling misses a 46 yard field goal that eventually would have lead to the game winning TD to be a game tying TD. The season was filled with errors by players that shouldn't be starters or contributors to the team, but because ownership refuses to pay signing bonuses to bring big time talent in, this is what he is stuck with.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Yes, but comparing Bill Parcells to Mike Tice is insane. Unless you can bring in a Coach like that, keep Tice and improve the team. Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games), the recievers dropping passes(Bates) isn't the coaches fault, and the players missing tackles and such isn't his fault.

Against Chicago, on one play, Bates drops a ball that hits him in the hands and would have been a TD. In the Arizona game, Elling misses a 46 yard field goal that eventually would have lead to the game winning TD to be a game tying TD. The season was filled with errors by players that shouldn't be starters or contributors to the team, but because ownership refuses to pay signing bonuses to bring big time talent in, this is what he is stuck with.

Yea, you can't really compare Tice in Parcells. But thats kind of my point. Coaching makes the difference.

You can'ty hang your season on one play. The Viking mistakes are all part of a pattern, which has become a glaring problem since the 6-0 start.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games),

But this goes both ways Afoci. Your kicker isn't going to make a kick if the chance isn't given to him. Tice had a golden opportunity to do 2 things early in the game.......1) get the lead 2) give his kicker some confidence early in the game.

He passed on both. Was it a bad call? Well, had the Vikings scored a TD on 4th down, this thread most likely wouldn't even exist. I'm just saying.......Coaching 101 for idiots---TAKE THE POINTS WHEN YOU CAN GET THEM!!!

[The Afoci]

You got it right that if they score a TD, everything is rosey. I didn't see the first half of the game, but from what I heard, 4th and 1 with this O-Line against their D-Line is something I would chance on the road against a team you just gained 75 yards pretty easily against. If you get it, you demoralize them, if you don't, they have bad field position. But if it was more than 4th and 1, I would kick the field goal and go to next position.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Yea, you can't really compare Tice in Parcells. But thats kind of my point. Coaching makes the difference.

Yeah, but firing Tice and bringing someone else who will be one of the lowest paid coaches in the league isn't a good idea. The players like Tice and importantly, Moss and Culpepper love him.

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
You can'ty hang your season on one play. The Viking mistakes are all part of a pattern, which has become a glaring problem since the 6-0 start.

The problems did exist during the 6-0 start, it is just that the breaks were still going the Vikings ways. Once the LBers started getting injured, the youth of the defense was exposed and anyone could get to the outside and crush them.