6-6 teams have no business playing in bowl games

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

I have grown to hate the bowl system.

I hope UCLA gets crushed tonight.

[Glengoyne]

I tend to agree with you. Being a Fresno State fan this game is sort of a mixed bag for me though. I am happy to have a shot at UCLA, but I would rather have had a shot in a year where Fresno State was better than just average. That excludes the fact that UCLA had a pretty piss poor year this year as well. When I heard about the pairing, I thought to myself "Geeze a bowl game where neither team really deserves to be there".

I am just hoping the attempt for the knockout punch, the punt block call, didn't completely change the momentum of the game.

[Ksyrup]

I agree, although I appreciate a late-night game on a night I happen to still be wide awake. Especially since tomorrow is a half-day at work with very little going on.

[miami_fan]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
I have grown to hate the bowl system.

I hope UCLA gets crushed tonight.

They will always be in the bowls as long as:

A) There are 28 bowls
B) 6-6 teams continue to bring 60,000 rabid fans with them.
C) People stop believing that a six loss team from one of the BCS conferences HAS to be better than a one or two loss team from a mid major

[MrBug708]

Trust me, 6-6 UCLA did not bring 6000 fans to this game. They don't want to play FSU

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Trust me, 6-6 UCLA did not bring 6000 fans to this game. They don't want to play FSU

If I heard the attendance right I'd guess UCLA had about 8 to 10 thousand folks there. FSU didn't sell near all of the 20,000 tickets it promissed, and I believe they said there were 25,000 at the game. You are also right about them not wanting to play Fresno, I am not sure the team was even there for the first quarter. According to my 'key to victory' analysis: UCLA sucked more than Fresno.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by miami_fan
They will always be in the bowls as long as:

A) There are 28 bowls
B) 6-6 teams continue to bring 60,000 rabid fans with them.
C) People stop believing that a six loss team from one of the BCS conferences HAS to be better than a one or two loss team from a mid major

I agree with this, as far as it goes. I have no problem with 6-6 teams, or even 5-7 teams making bowl games, so long as they are actually good teams. The REAL problem is that all the BCS conferences have several guaranteed bowl berths and there aren't nearly enough at-large berths.

[Chief Rum]

When I heard that UCLA got into a bowl game, I was happy, because I wanted that chance at a winning season and another month to get some practice time on Coach Dorrell's offense in. Instead, I pretty much got treated to the same disgusted feeling I had in the final games of the season, which was that this team does not belong in a bowl game, and Dorrell, nice guy that he is, does not belong at the helm of any Division I team, much less a BCS conference major (using the term generousaly here) program.

It just pisses me off when I see football players who actually do this sort of thing regularly make mistakes that I, as just a fan, know they shouldn't do...repeatedly. And it urks me even more when the whole team makes dumb mistakes that is obviously a fault of bad coaching, because those coaches should know better, too.

Fresno State (5 losses, BTW, not the 2-3 mentioned by a poster prior to this) got itself all hyped because that's what Coach Hill does. He gets his players to believe they should have a chip on their shoulder because of a lack of respect. Well, I am happy that works for them, but they would have had to use voodoo magic to not realize even well before the game that they had as much talent and ability to win this game as UCLA does. In fact, they have more talent and ability and should have won it (which they did).

UCLA, meanwhile (the community, the fans), mostly just wants this season to end. A month ago, I was excited. But now, in the aftermath of yet another stupid defensive quagmire of a game in which our offense did absolutely jack squat again, I am just frustrated we got to show a national television audience how crappy we are. Yeah, that will help recruiting. :(

Sorry, I am just bitter. I hate it when coaches don't do a job as well as, say, I would do, and I am nowhere near ready to apply for the job.

"Big" win for Fresno State. I'm happy they're excited for the win. They shouldn't be. We probably weren't in the top seven opponents they played on their schedule (not to take anything away from them, they have a good team).

Memo to Coach Dorrell: DUMP THE STUPID WCO AND GET A REAL OFFENSE!! Thanks.

CR

[MrBug708]

This is UCLA's first lost to a mid major in a long time. Mid 90's I believe

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by MrBug708
This is UCLA's first lost to a mid major in a long time. Mid 90's I believe

I would respond that UCLA generally only schedules what they perceive to be patsies from non bcs conferences, but since I would really only be doing that to rile you up and hijack this thread I won't. OK maybe I will.

[HornedFrog Purple]

That's a dangerous game to play nowadays. What a BCS school may see as a patsy, 3 or 4 years from now when they play them they aren't quite the patsy they thought they would be.

With the reduction of scholarships a few years back some of these kids can and do trickle down to the mid-majors (which is why you won't see Notre Dame with 438 High School All-Americans who never play a down etc). You get a coach and a staff together who can do something with them and they become dangerous.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Glengoyne
I would respond that UCLA generally only schedules what they perceive to be patsies from non bcs conferences, but since I would really only be doing that to rile you up and hijack this thread I won't. OK maybe I will.

You won the game. Ain't that enough? Sorry if UCLA's regular scheduling of good teams from BCS conferences overshadows the one or two non-BCS "patsies" it will schedule to give it a breather. Which over the past few years has essentially been San Diego State or... Fresno State :rolleyes:

CR

[Darkiller]

6-6 college teams should have no business playing in Bowl games...neither 8-8 NFL teams for the Playoffs but this is bound to happen with the current system which allows for such Division Champions.

[scooper]

UCLA plays Notre Dame next season. That should be an offensive snoozer if ever there was.

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by Chief Rum
You won the game. Ain't that enough? Sorry if UCLA's regular scheduling of good teams from BCS conferences overshadows the one or two non-BCS "patsies" it will schedule to give it a breather. Which over the past few years has essentially been San Diego State or... Fresno State :rolleyes:

CR

Yes my team won, but really we beat UCLA in an off year. It lacks the satisfaction I would have gotten beating them in another year. Oh and don't kid yourself by thinking UCLA scheduled the bulldogs thinking they were anything but patsies. Those games were scheduled prior to Hill's arrival, and after one relatively close call, before the actual near loss in the last game, UCLA's AD had made it clear they weren't scheduling FSU anytime in the near future. UCLA doesn't schedule non BCS teams that will challenge them, they schedule body bag games. I mean they aren't the only school to do this, but I like to pick on them. I really wish both teams had had better years, so I could have really enjoyed the outcome of the game last night.

[judicial clerk]

I thought UCLA scheduled pretty tough non-conference games. I am thinking home and home with Tennessee for example.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

September 6 at Colorado (5-7) L 16-14
September 13 Illinois (1-11) W 6-3
September 20 at No. 3 Oklahoma (12-1) L 59-24
September 27 San Diego State (6-6) W 20-10

24-26 record for their non conference opponents.

[Chief Rum]

Colorado and Oklahoma are both known to be strong, solid programs and when that Illinois was scheduled, they were one of the best teams in the Big Ten as well. It didn't work out so well this year, but that was definitely not an attempt to schedule a weak nonconference.

Glengoyne, I am sorry you are so ridiculously bitter that your team isn't in a BCS conference, and I am not going to bother to tell you what is in UCLA's mind when they schedule you or San Diego State (now or in the past). Maybe they are looking for a patsy, or maybe they are looking for a closer team that would travel well to the Rose Bowl to raise attendance, or maybe they are looking at playing solid mid-majors from the area. I know about what Hill said a year or two ago, and I also know there is an awful lot of reason not to take him literally, since that is the card he plays for his players. You obviously have convinced yourself and I'm not going to bother arguing with someone with a closed mind.

But UCLA regularly schedules one of the toughest nonconference schedules in Division I. Their nonconference opponents from the past few years include Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Tennessee, Colorado, Texas and Nebraska. In just about every case, it was a home-and-home, too, so they played (or will play) these guys twice. As scooper noted, they play Notre Dame next year. They bring Oklahoma to the Rose Bowl the following year. They aren't afraid to schedule tough games, games they have a reasonable expectation they could lose and lose bad.

When those Fresno State games were being scheduled, Fresno State was a bowl team. In fact, that was about when they were embarrassing USC in the Freedom Bowl. Not exactly picking on a patsy, eh? When San Diego State was being scheduled it was sending offensive players like Marshall Faulk to the NFL. UCLA has also scheduled BYU a lot in the past--when they were being run by LaVell Edwards and were in line for national championships (or arguments that they should be considered more).

If UCLA won't schedule Fresno State anymore because they are too good, well, then past history doesn't seem to agree with your assessment. And you should just take that as a compliment and be happy for the advancement of your p[rogram, instead of using it as a reason to step on another program when it's down and grind your boot in its back like the bitter asshole fan you apparently have become.

CR

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by Chief Rum
...

Glengoyne, I am sorry you are so ridiculously bitter that your team isn't in a BCS conference, ... You obviously have convinced yourself and I'm not going to bother arguing with someone with a closed mind.

But UCLA regularly schedules one of the toughest nonconference schedules in Division I.... They aren't afraid to schedule tough games, games they have a reasonable expectation they could lose and lose bad.

When those Fresno State games were being scheduled, Fresno State was a bowl team. In fact, that was about when they were embarrassing USC in the Freedom Bowl....

If UCLA won't schedule Fresno State anymore because they are too good, well, then past history doesn't seem to agree with your assessment. And you should just take that as a compliment and be happy for the advancement of your p[rogram, instead of using it as a reason to step on another program when it's down and grind your boot in its back like the bitter asshole fan you apparently have become.

CR

You are right in that I was pretty well off base with my body bag comment. I actually thought I had included a sentence stating that "I don't even know if this is true, but it is my(possibly jaded)perception" That belonged in there somewhere around the point where I said I liked to pick on them. I apparently didn't, and I should have because it probably would have saved you some typing.

You are right about one thing, I do feel bitterness toward the BCS system. There are football programs in BCS conferences that Fresno would beat year in and year out. These perennial cellar dwellars benefit from the BCS system simply because they are in the "right" conferences. There are programs outside of the BCS that are better than the lower echelon BCS schools, but they are locked out of the funds that all BCS programs enjoy. So yeah I am bitter about that.

I think you are wrong about the UCLA FSU series being scheduled right after the Freedom bowl victory over SC. I think it happened closer to the time Fresno was lucky to win three games a year.

--now that I have finished reading all of your post I can also say that you definately are wrong in calling me a closed minded asshole treading on another program when it is down. In fact I have fairly well avoided rubbing last nights game in. I have even said it wasn't very satisfactory being that UCLA was in a down year. I think I also posted that the key to victory for either team was to "Suck less than the other guys". Not exactly "We kicked your sorry ass dude". There may well be an asshole fan in this particular discussion, but it isn't me.

[Chief Rum]

I call it as I see it, Glengoyne. Sorry you disagree. My contention that you are closeminded relates to your repeated insistence about UCLA's intentions behind its scheduling of non-BCS opponents, to which all you have for evidence is a quote by Pat Hill, not exactly the most unbiased source. You were simarly closeminded in a thread about this earlier this year, if I recall correctly.

And I think you are an asshole, because it is clear to me at least that it's not enough for you to win the game, you also have to bring up past grievances and throw that in our faces as well, whether those grievances are true or not.

You talk about Fresno State being as good as UCLA, and no one here disputes that--in fact, it seems to be the one thing we all agree on--and yet you insist on playing the "bitter, little Bulldog fan" bit, no respect, yadayadayada, and how UCLA is all a part of this nonrespect thing. Well, I am sick of it. No one is buying that schtick anymore. No one thinks of Fresno State as a walk int he park. I think it's time you get that through your head--and send a memo to Hill, so he finally realizes it too.

And now that you're a big time program, maybe it's also time to realize that after you defeat an opponent honorably on the field of battle, it is very bad form to start throwing your perceived past grievances in his face as well. You're a winner, now--start acting like it.

CR

[Glengoyne]

Chief,

I haven't claimed that FSU is better than UCLA. I am not throwing any grievances in your, or anyone elses, face.

I... I...bah!... don't feel the need to continue typing.

Happy New Year Chief

[judicial clerk]

Damn, I don't think Glenygone is a ridiculously bitter asshole, but I do think that his position creates a catch 22 for UCLA and other programs of their stature. If UCLA schedules Fresno State, then they are accused of loading thier schedule with patsies, if UCLA doesn't schedule Fresno State, then Fresno State complains that UCLA is ducking them.

I think UCLA plays a good schedule and I don't think they are worried about losing a game. The main reason UCLA is willing to play home and home with other big name schools is the relative size of the stadiums. If Fresno State had a stadium that held, say 70,000 +, then teams might be willing to play a home and home with them.

Also, I think aggressive football programs, like at Fresno State or, say Marshall, are really benefiting from the scholarship restrictions placed on NCAA DI programs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No one thinks of Fresno State as a walk in the park.

How ironic that everybody except (the other) FSU seems to realize that.

[Glengoyne]

Generally I would agree that Fresno State is no walk in the park, let alone a patsy. This year however, if you followed the team much, You saw them get walked over by Tennessee and Oklahoma. Now that was not the least bit surprising. Well I was a little bit surprised we didn't even look competitive against Tennessee. That was the first game of the season with a very young team, so I wasn't sure of exactly what to expect. Those two losses were expected, but getting drubbed by the likes of Hawaii and Boise State was disappointing to say the least.

So yes I agree that Fresno State is not going to be taken lightly by most major programs. I think my attitude in this post is reflective of my disappointment with the teams performance this season. As I typed that last sentence, I find it hard to believe I feel that way about a season where Fresno beat UCLA in a bowl game. I think I may need to turn this around a bit. Rather than look at the UCLA game not as a relatively climactic end to a disappointing season, I need to look at it like we made UCLA look like crap(well for one quarter at least) in an off year.

Some of you guys should be therapists.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Rather than look at the UCLA game not as a relatively climactic end to a disappointing season, I need to look at it like we made UCLA look like crap(well for one quarter at least) in an off year.

Some of you guys should be therapists.

lol, I'm not taking hback what I said earlier about Fresno State--they have proven themselves to me in recent seasons, so that I never think of them as a patsy or an easy team to play.

But I had to laugh at your quote above, Glengoyne. I feel it takes something away from Fresno State to say so, which I know is unfair (Fresno State was quite responsible for making UCLA look like crap), but in all fairness, UCLA has a Master's now in making itself look like crap. It doesn't need Fresno State's help to do it (unfortunately). :(

CR

[MrBug708]

I dont want to schedule Fresno State because I'd rather play a BCS opponent from the East Coast to get more national exposure, rather then watching UCLA play Fresno State on Fox Sports West 2