FOFC Power 10: The 10 Most Influential People in Sports Text-Sims

[NOISE]

Got the idea for this thread from reading ESPN's article on the "most influential people in sports." I thought it would be interesting to see who others thought was able to most shape the sport text-sims (and the overall market) we love to play. Obviously, Jim G. would rank high not only for the reason that football text-sims will always be compared to his product, but how his "vision" is how we play his games. Based on Skydog's connections with .400 and Solecismic and being the moderator for FOFC, would he make the list?

[heybrad]

Anybody can throw in the developers names. I'm going to throw in an obscure name here, but I think Mary Ellen Girard of Viatech (I think its Viatech). Anyway... shes the lady who helps numerous people solve licensing problems. Thats pretty powerful in the text sim world.

[mattwakeman]

Marc Vaughan and the Collyer brothers. Any text game that sells 750,000 copies is gonna be high on this list...

[Subby]

Joe Stallings is really leading the charge with respect to UI in sports text sims...he has great ideas and should be high on this list.

[Maple Leafs]

John Madden.

Seriously. He's the name behind the 800-pound gorilla of sports games, and the one that shapes most potential customer's views of how a sports sim (even a text one) should work.

I'm not saying it's a positive influence, but it's an influence.

[GoSeahawks]

Markus Heinson (sp?)

[Honolulu Blue]

A couple of names that I want to make sure are noted:

* Clay Dreslough - the designer behind Baseball Mogul. Jim always cites him as a direct influence for FOF, and it's certainly an indirect influence for Shawn (PureSim/Total Control) and Markus (OOTP/ITP), among others. Baseball Mogul may be dismissed these days for its simplicity, but it was the first non-soccer career-oriented sports text sim.

* Lance Haffner - I'm showing my age again, but I bought Full Count Baseball for the Commodore 64. His games have been around a long time, providing computer replay text sims for baseball, football, and other sports.

I don't know the person(s) behind the Strat-O-Matic and Pursue the Pennant/Diamond Mind computer games, otherwise I would mention them here.

[Killebrew]

Dark horse vote: Riz of EHM. He put a phenominal amount of work for years into a free game that will likely pay dividends as his new version is released soon.

[vtbub]

Just ten?

Lance Haffner/Tom Mink- They invented the genre. 3-in-1 Football was advertised in the Sporting News as early as 1981. No way my mother was shelling out $40 for a 10 year old kid to spend even more time with the computer. Tom had a big hand in Lance's auto racing and basketball games. I actually own Fast Beak Tennis, which runs on my Windows XP machine.

Mac Howard- SAAP is close to twenty years old? Somehow Soccer Management Games translate well into computers. He's the granddaddy.

Electronic Arts- Earl Weaver Baseball. Along with Microleague Baseball, it was 80's computer baseball. Owned them both.

Paul and Oliver Collyer- Championship Manager. By far the most immersive, involving, challenging, enraging, and engrossing sports sim of all time. I hate Arsenal, nothing like losing the premiereship to those bastards on the last day. In CM3, after we won the treble as Man U, Ryan Giggs asked for a transfer, he needed a challenge. Easily the most heart wrenching sim moment for me. *sniff*

Dave W.- I can't remember his last name, but he created MLS Manager and World Hockey Manager. Those were the first GM sims I played, around '96 or so. Windows based, you could get thirty years out of MLSM before crashing.

Jim Gindin- Why do you think we are here? Football's first serious GM sim. After the death of FPS series, filled the void in Football.

The Trunzo Brothers- Boxing, Boxing, and Boxing. The best game money I spent last year in gaming was on Title Bout.

Markus Heinsohn- OOTP came along in an era when there were plenty of serious baseball sims and created his own niche. He truly listens to what his customers want and for the most part delivers. Multi-player leagues set OOTP apart from other baseball sims of the time.

Joe Stallings- I'm really not sure just how much of a hand he has in actually developing the games, but his vision of a company that produces quality sims in all four major sports is exceptional. Stallings is taking "text" sims and getting the x-box generation into this like us 30 somethings fell in love with Microleague/EWB. He has a good team of developers and is very active in the community.

"Front Office Football Central"- We may not design games, we certainly are uncivil at times, but this fourm has influenced the design of what's been produced in the last four year. Other companies have good fourms, OOTP is usually a good read along with most posts at .400, but IMHO, this fourm has been a positive influence on the text sim community.

[NOISE]

Originally posted by vtbub
Just ten?

Could just brainstorm a list. So far we have the following:

Developers
Clay Dreslough (Baseball Mogul)
Dave W. (MLS Manager, World Hockey Manager)
Jim Gindin (FOF Series, TCY)
Jim & Tom Trunzo (Title Bout, Title Bout Championship Boxing)
Lance Haffner (Full Count Baseball)
Tom Mink (3-in-1 Football, Fast Beak Tennis)
Mac Howard (SAAP)
Marc Vaughan (Championship Manager)
Markus Heinsohn (OOTP, ITTP)
Paul and Oliver Collyer (Championship Manager)
Riz (Eastside Hockey Manager)

Forums
.400 Software Studios Forum
Front Office Football Central Forum
OOTP Forum

Misc.
Electronic Arts
Joe Stallings (.400 Software Studios)
John Madden (EA)
Mary Ellen Girard (ViaTech)

[TLK]

Originally posted by vtbub
Just ten?

Dave W.- I can't remember his last name, but he created MLS Manager and World Hockey Manager. Those were the first GM sims I played, around '96 or so. Windows based, you could get thirty years out of MLSM before crashing.



Dan Ryzansky (sp?) Every now and then I'll get the urge to play one of those games. He's still good with his customer service, although the games haven't been updated in ages....

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by NOISE
Based on Skydog's connections with .400 and Solecismic and being the moderator for FOFC, would he make the list? Heck no. I'm just a guy who likes to play these games just like everybody else.

[Kodos]

Plus, SkyDog losts posts this week, so his level of influence would have to be lowered as well...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Kodos
Plus, SkyDog losts posts this week, so his level of influence would have to be lowered as well... Absolutely. I took a big hit in Experience Points.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue


* Clay Dreslough Baseball Mogul may be dismissed these days for its simplicity, but it was the first non-soccer career-oriented sports text sim.



Meanwhile Andrew Dolphin weeps to realize that his games apparantly never existed as do the Wizard Games guys who created greyhound and good-to-firm and Grand Prix 1 and 2 among other games. I'm sure I'm missing some more guys too.

All their efforts for naught as Clay invented the non soccer career-oriented sports text sim genre years after their non soccer career-oriented sports text sims were out.

It sucks to be forgotten so easily. :(

[sabotai]

There's more than 10 people who have been influencial in the text-sim world?

[Kodos]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Absolutely. I took a big hit in Experience Points.

I think it was all a ploy to put me WAY behind you in the post race. Suddenly, a couple hundred posts gap turned into a 1,500 posts gap. I'm on to your little game, sir... ;)

[Easy Mac]

Originally posted by vtbub
Dave W.- I can't remember his last name, but he created MLS Manager and World Hockey Manager. Those were the first GM sims I played, around '96 or so. Windows based, you could get thirty years out of MLSM before crashing.


As TLK said, Dan Ryazansky. I still play MLSM from time to time on my new computer. I never had it crash on me though. I made it around 120 years one time on a Pentium 1 133 mhz computer. It took a few months, but eventually there weren't enough players to go around.

MLSM, World hockey manager, and world soccer manager were the first 3 games I installed when I got my computer. They're good for a simple diversion.

[Dutch]

Originally posted by vtbub
Just ten?

I agree, I think there should be at least 15 people in the top 10.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally posted by sabotai
There's more than 10 people who have been influencial in the text-sim world?

There's a huge amount who have been influential imho - I know a lot of ideas I come up with are 'spins*' from old games or relatively unknown games.

*For example the idea for coaching reports in CM00-01 was instigated by a game released in 1999 which I seem to recall was called World League Soccer Manager or something similar, they had them but simply reported back a hidden 'overall skill level' for the player, I hated that being revealed but loved the idea of better interaction with the coaches, so adapted it to give a more real world report from a coach.

I'm sure most designers come up with a lot of ideas in similar ways, although I'm sure some will deny it ;)

PS. A lot of the influential people on sports sims are the people in charge of the sports themselves who keep changng the rules .... keeps us busy changing things ... at least 8 leagues a season in soccer change their structure each year, normally when we feel we've got things just about perfect for the league in question ;)

[vtbub]

Dan R, That's close to Dave W. ;)

[kcchief19]

I think this was an interesting suggestion, but I think it has quickly mired into simply a list of favorite designers or cool people rather than a true "power" list.

For example, Mary Ellen Girard may help get people new licenses, but Robert Doherty is the head of ViaTech and he is the true "power" at ViaTech.

I wouldn't necessarily put John Madden on a list like this either -- he just cashes the checks. The real power lies with whoever runs the Madden design team for EA or the head of EA Sports.

I wouldn't disagree that some designers or developers belong on the list, like Marc Vaughn, Jim Gindin and Joe Stallings. I loved Lance Haffner's games, but he belongs on the 1991 Power List.

I would include two FOFC members on the potential list: Mr. Ben Louis and Mr. Quiksand. With all due respect to Ben's thoughts, he holds incredible power here at FOFC and is influential in multiple text-sim communities. I would label Quik's power as quiet. His endorsement of a product or idea often leads to a bandwagon here at FOFC. His comments are always very construction rather than destructive. If he trashed a game, it would be a big blow for the game -- but he doesn't do that. "Not my cup of tea" is about the strongest rebuke you'll get from him, which is fine. But when he champions a product or idea, you can see the momentum build.

Just my .02 cents.

[heybrad]

Originally posted by kcchief19
For example, Mary Ellen Girard may help get people new licenses, but Robert Doherty is the head of ViaTech and he is the true "power" at ViaTech.
It was suggested with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Is that even OK to do on this board anymore or does it have to be pointed out in every instance?

[Easy Mac]

hey brad...

see that was tongue in cheek, I don't really like to say hey to people.

[Karim]

I agree that Quik is an influential poster. His comments on a game are always thorough and stir people to or from a game very quickly.

As for developers, they've all been mentioned. I follow the developments of Sports Interactive, Solecismic, OOTP Developments and .400 Software Studios.

[Draft Dodger]

My choice - 3DO. Without the job they did destroying High Heat, I never would have had a need to find OOTP.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think there's definitely two different lists emerging from the posts so far -- a current list of most influential and an all-time most influential list. What'd be interesting at some point would be to see how many truly belong on both lists.

That said, keeping in the spirit of throwing out names, I'd think Andrew Dolphin might make the all-time list with an * for "Most underappreciated since the peak of his products".

[Mac Howard]

Colin Adams (headcoach in 1985) introduced a number of the ideas that we now take for granted in text sims. Not only was Headcoach possibly the first full featured gridiron text sim (I don't know what was produced in the US) but he brought in training features and trading that went well beyond the soccer games of that time. His ideas certainly influenced the forerunners of SaaP and consequently many other soccer text sims.

[PineTar]

Often overlooked: former Sideline moderator STIX and of course Dave Dial

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Mac Howard
Colin Adams (headcoach in 1985) introduced a number of the ideas that we now take for granted in text sims. Not only was Headcoach possibly the first full featured gridiron text sim (I don't know what was produced in the US) but he brought in training features and trading that went well beyond the soccer games of that time. His ideas certainly influenced the forerunners of SaaP and consequently many other soccer text sims.

I was going to mention your friend but I wasn't sure if he created coach or headcoach so I wasn't sure if it was AD and I didn't want to mention him twice if it was Dolphin. Just wanted you to know that some of us haven't forgotten him even if our memories are a bit fuzzy. :)

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Mac Howard
Colin Adams (headcoach in 1985) introduced a number of the ideas that we now take for granted in text sims. Not only was Headcoach possibly the first full featured gridiron text sim (I don't know what was produced in the US) but he brought in training features and trading that went well beyond the soccer games of that time. His ideas certainly influenced the forerunners of SaaP and consequently many other soccer text sims.

My first thought about him being first was that it possibly could have been him or xor football so I did a quick google and xor was also released in 1985. Damn, my memory must not be as bad as I thought!!!

I guess it's a dead heat unless there's some game I'm forgetting or haven't played which is highly possible of course. :)

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by vtbub
Electronic Arts- Earl Weaver Baseball. Along with Microleague Baseball, it was 80's computer baseball. Owned them both.
Good point on Ealr Weaver. Although let's give credit where it's due, that was basically a one man operation: Eddie Dombrower. Well, Eddie and his wife, but he probably deserves to be on any Top Ten list, even though EWB wasn't actually a text sim.

And yes, I realize John Madden doesn't actually code the EA games. I picked him as a symbolic pick, since there's probably a dozen really infuential people in Madden-land.