Damn Yankees, when does football start?

[Desnudo]

"News
New York's WABC-TV and New Jersey's Bergen Record are both reporting that free-agent pitcher Greg Maddux will sign with the New York Yankees sometime this week. It should come as no surprise that Maddux shares agent Scott Boras with one former Texas Ranger, Alex Rodriguez. The former Braves starter was reportedly considering an increased two-year offer in the neighborhood of $14-15 million from his former team, the Chicago Cubs, after turning down varying levels of interest from the Giants, Dodgers, and Cardinals. He has won 15 or more games in a major-league record 16 straight seasons."

hxxp://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpbmdmam0wBF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=fanball-yankeesmadduxmaybene&prov=fanball&type=lgns


I don't pray often, but please let anyone but them win the world series this year.

[BishopMVP]

Just wait until they get Vidro too.

[Peregrine]

As I told a co-worker, if they want to build a pitching staff based on people who were dominant circa 1996, they're doing great.

[FBPro]

Not soon enough, though the scouting combine is this coming weekend on NFL Network. I know what I'll be doing.

[Galaril]

Good job Larry Luchino. :mad:

[Ksyrup]

Good job Larry Luchino. :mad:
What does he have to do with this? Were the Red Sox ever interested in Maddux? Should they be? It's thinking like that that will sink your organization. You don't go after the same guys the Yankees are, simply because they are. Especially when Georgie is directing traffic.

I think the Maddux signing, if it happens, clearly opens the door for a deal for Vidro.

[Galaril]

What does he have to do with this? Were the Red Sox ever interested in Maddux? Should they be? It's thinking like that that will sink your organization. You don't go after the same guys the Yankees are, simply because they are. Especially when Georgie is directing traffic.

I think the Maddux signing, if it happens, clearly opens the door for a deal for Vidro.

No, actually I am still venting about the A-Rod mess.

[rkmsuf]

Maddox will probably not be a Yankee...by all accounts this is nothing but NY media throwing stuff against the wall...

[Fonzie]

What does any of this have to do with Ted Nugent? :confused:

[Ksyrup]

It has more to do with Jack Blades and Tommy Shaw, I believe. Ted was just there for show.

[damnMikeBrown]

If MLB were a sports sim, the review would be, "This game has great potential. I can see there is an incredible opportunity of depth, and involved game play. The options and intricacies involved in managing/GM'img a team are immense, such that you'd never tire of playing. The downside is that the finances are completely broken, thus making the game completely unplayable. Wait for a big patch, of next years version."

[tucker342]

LOL:D

[tucker342]

dola-

As I told a co-worker, if they want to build a pitching staff based on people who were dominant circa 1996, they're doing great.

ummm Maddux is still one of the best pitchers in the league.... His ERA was a little high, but that's cause he started the year so poorly... I bet it will be the same old Greg Maddux this season.


One more thing, I REALLY hope The Yankees don't get him...

[judicial clerk]

"Can you take me high enough?!, something something, Yesterday!"

er, wait was that damn Yankees?

On a serious note, Vidro at second base would be awesome, if you are a Yankee fan.

Question: Last year I heard people talking about how shitty Derek Jeter had become. Is this true? I don't follow the regular season very closely anymore.

[Ksyrup]

ummm Maddux is still one of the best pitchers in the league.... His ERA was a little high, but that's cause he started the year so poorly... I bet it will be the same old Greg Maddux this season.Maddux might still be a good pitcher, but he's not the "same old" Maddux from a couple of years ago. The last two years, his H/9 IP and BB/9 IP went up, while his K/9 IP went down, from the previous two years.

Taken from a recent Rob Neyer article:






Hits/9 W/9 K/9

2000-2001 8.3 0.9 6.8

2002-2003 9.0 1.4 5.2





</PRE>



He's still a decent pitcher, and with the Yankees' offense, he'd probably win 15 games in his sleep. Still, he's not quite as automatic as he used to be. And there's an increased chance that he could completely lose it, given that he's always relied on something other than his "stuff."

[McSweeny]

rotoworld says this is just BS new york media and no deal is happening... though they did grab El Duque on a minor league deal

[Fonzie]

It has more to do with Jack Blades and Tommy Shaw, I believe. Ted was just there for show.

Ah, now it all makes sense. :)

[Raven Hawk]

Although this refers to last year, I seems quite appropriate now. :)

hxxp://www.theonion.com/onion3904/yankees.html

[Ksyrup]

From the Sports Guy's newest column:



Another silver lining: This A-Rod fiasco made us realize that Ben Affleck needs to be stopped. I loved "Good Will Hunting" as much as anyone, but did you see him ranting and raving at the Daytona 500? Since when did Ben Affleck become The Voice of Red Sox Fans? Who nominated him? Would a true Sox fan ever propose to a chick with a big ass from the Bronx? In a million years? I really think we should vote on this -- let's have an election and everything. Ben Affleck needs to be stopped. I'm not kidding.

(And really, who is Affleck to lecture us about someone ruining the sport of baseball? Isn't this the same guy who sold out with "Reindeer Games," "Paycheck," "Pearl Harbor," "Armageddon," "Gigli" and everything else? Has any actor cashed in as gleefully and gratuitously as Ben Affleck? How is this different than A-Rod weaseling his way to New York? And when you think about it, isn't working for the Weinsteins basically the Hollywood equivalent of playing for the Yankees? I thought so.)

[General Mike]

I'm done with baseball, forever.

[Fonzie]

As was noted in the other Yankees thread, every move they make that further distances their payroll from that of the rest of the league will increase the likelihood of MLB moving toward some sort of salary cap. Of course, there will have to be a work-stoppage of some sort to finally bring the Players Association to their senses on this issue, and it'll be painful, but it'll have to happen if the sport is to survive the ever-widening market disparities.

So, in a twisted sense, what the Yankees are doing now by buying or trying to buy every quality player available is going to be best for baseball in the long run, as it will accelerate the move towards some sort of cap system/payroll equality.

[rkmsuf]

As was noted in the other Yankees thread, every move they make that further distances their payroll from that of the rest of the league will increase the likelihood of MLB moving toward some sort of salary cap. Of course, there will have to be a work-stoppage of some sort to finally bring the Players Association to their senses on this issue, and it'll be painful, but it'll have to happen if the sport is to survive the ever-widening market disparities.

So, in a twisted sense, what the Yankees are doing now by buying or trying to buy every quality player available is going to be best for baseball in the long run, as it will accelerate the move towards some sort of cap system/payroll equality.

I hope they win 130 games and the World Series for the next five years. Then baseball will have achieved what they have set in motion. No one will watch outside of NY and the game will have to change. I've seen the light...Go Yankees!!!

[Desnudo]

I hope they win 130 games and the World Series for the next five years. Then baseball will have achieved what they have set in motion. No one will watch outside of NY and the game will have to change. I've seen the light...Go Yankees!!!

Actually it would just be like baseball from 1920-1970.

[Castlerock]

This is from Rick Reilly back in 1999 but it still true:

Rooting for the Yankees takes all the courage, imagination, conviction and baseball intelligence of Spam. It's like rooting for Brad Pitt to get the girl or for Bill Gates to hit Scratch 'n' Win. (This is why I'm proposing legislation that would allow only those born in one of the five New York boroughs to be Yankees fans. All others who root for the team will be considered overdog-loving, Eveready-chucking, bandwagon-hopping, fair-weather, brownnose, pucker-lipped human goiters and be required to turn in their pinstriped underwear or be tossed into the East River with only Chuck Knoblauch to throw them a life preserver.)

[mckerney]

...and the Lakers are going to have their 70 win season this year because they added two superstars, yadda yadda yadda.

The Yankees will obviously enter the season favored by the media, though I'd be surprised to see them as the champs at the end of the year. Yes, they picked up Alex Rodriguz, a player with so much of an impact on a team that the Mariners tied the major league record for wins the year after he left. And although he's better than Soriano, it remains to be seen how much of an improvement having Rodriguez instead will have.

Also, if it comes down to them playing in the playoffs again, I'd much rather have the Red Sox rotation.

[sterlingice]

Looks like Maddux will not be joining the Yankees, but rather, as has been reported for months, the Cubs. At least, according to AP.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1737634

The deal is pending a physical, but the 37-year-old Maddux is expected to report Wednesday with the rest of the Cubs pitchers and catchers. Maddux, who spent the last 11 years with the Atlanta Braves, was the last major free agent to agree to a deal.
SI

[jerem77]

Looks like Maddux will not be joining the Yankees, but rather, as has been reported for months, the Cubs. At least, according to AP.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1737634


SI


This was the happiest news I've had all day. Being a Cubs fan I could've cared less who the Yankess picked up this winter... except Greg Maddux. Though I'll NEVER like the Red Sox, I was very close to becoming a Yankee Hater.

[General Mike]

This was the happiest news I've had all day. Being a Cubs fan I could've cared less who the Yankess picked up this winter... except Greg Maddux. Though I'll NEVER like the Red Sox, I was very close to becoming a Yankee Hater.

Why in the blue hell did they give him 3 years and $24 Million?

[AgPete]

This was the happiest news I've had all day. Being a Cubs fan I could've cared less who the Yankess picked up this winter... except Greg Maddux. Though I'll NEVER like the Red Sox, I was very close to becoming a Yankee Hater.

If Maddux can revert back to his old self for one year, can you imagine a healthy rotation with him, Prior and Wood? :eek: If there is one team besides my home team I root for in MLB, it's the Cubbies. I'd love to see them end the streak and beat the Yankees in the process.

[Fonzie]

As a Cardinals fan, I was hoping to see Maddux go anywhere but Chicago. Rats.

At the same time, I think 3 years for $24 million is silly money to spend on a slowly declining 37 year-old (albeit a very good pitcher). The fact that the Cubs are paying that much, and thus diverting their resources from improving other aspects of their team, makes me happy.

[Fonzie]

Dola-

If Maddux can revert back to his old self for one year, can you imagine a healthy rotation with him, Prior and Wood? :eek:

They don't really need the "old" Maddux to elicit an eek from me; last year's version will be tough enough, especially when one considers that they've also got Clement and Zambrano. If they're all healthy that'll be perhaps the best 1-5 starting rotation in baseball.

[JeeberD]

Looks like Maddux will not be joining the Yankees, but rather, as has been reported for months, the Cubs. At least, according to AP.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1737634


SI

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Crap, even after all the moves the Astros have made this off-season this is going to make it really tough for us to unseat the Cubs as NL Central champs...

[sterlingice]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Crap, even after all the moves the Astros have made this off-season this is going to make it really tough for us to unseat the Cubs as NL Central champs...
Yeah, but as pretty as that "NL Central" banner looks versus "Wild Card" (is there any difference aside from the lettering?), who really cares in the end. All that matters is getting to the playoffs because then it's all about the short series and anything can happen.

SI

[JeeberD]

Well, last year the wildcard certainly didn't come from the NL Central. Hopefully, if the Astros can't take the division, they'll be improved enough to get the wildcard. But that's nothing that you can ever count on...

[jerem77]

Why in the blue hell did they give him 3 years and $24 Million?

Why else-so that he would sign with them.

Actually, there are several very good reasons for the cubs to sign Maddux, and at that kind of money...

1. 24 million is chump change for the Cubs. They have been underspending for years. Sorry Fonzie, but I doubt this will really hurt their spending in other areas.

2. Cubs fans have never really forgiven management for letting Maddux walk away. Bringing him back to win #300 provides a sort of undoing of the past mistake

3. Maddux only needs to be as good as last year or slightly better to make this team better.

4. Lastly and most importantly. The presence of Clemens and Pettite on the Astros will make the other pitchers better. Those two guys have a lot to teach. Maddux can do the same for the Cubs young pitchers. The knowledge he can impart onto Wood, Prior, etc. is invaluable.

[Easy Mac]

I hate Greg Maddux because:

A. Once a Cub, always a Cub
B. He looks like Matthew Broderick from Godzilla, but not from Ferris Buehler
C. He goes where the money is, he has no loyalty (you're not worth that much... see also Tom Glavine).
4. He's a Cub

So I say Fuck Greg Maddux, fuck him right in his ear. He's been overrated for the past 2 years and isn't nearly as effective once they realized there is a strike zone. I'd rather have a million Gay Hamptons than 1 Greg Maddux.

[Vince]

Tell us how you really feel, Easy Mac ;)

[Easy Mac]

He is a cod... yes, i mean cod.

[sterlingice]

Rangers: Blalock inks five-year deal Well, some more good news today. This deal did allow the Rangers to lock up Blalock for 5 years. So, at least they aren't just sitting on that cash and they're trying to build a core. If they could sign Teixeira, they'd be in even better shape.

For anyone not familiar with why anyone would sign a young guy for a lot more than he's making, it's something a lot of small market teams have to do to try and keep costs down. Basically, instead of paying him league minimum his first couple of years and then having his contract explode to $10M each of his arbitration years, they'll sign him to something like a 5 year, $3M per so he gets his money spread out more and it's guaranteed (pray for no injuries) while the team gets to save some cash and maybe even sign them for their first year of free agency. It a good way to save money, but if he gets injured or doesn't pan out, you're stuck with dead money on your books. It's backfired on a lot of teams but a risk you have to take if you're a small market club. I know the Royals are looking long and hard at Angel Berroa, Ken Harvey, Jeremy Affeldt, Jimmy Gobble, Miguel Ascensio, and Kyle Snyder this year to see if they can and should lock up any of them long term and maybe even sign away their first year of free agency.

SI

[Ksyrup]

I hate Greg Maddux because:

B. He looks like Matthew Broderick from Godzilla, but not from Ferris Buehler

That's a great reason, although I'd have gone with the "He looks like the Matthew Broderick who killed a mother and daughter while driving around Ireland on vacation, but not from Ferris Bueler."

That's a bigger travesty than Godzilla. But it's close.

[McSweeny]

you guys see this gem on rotoworld today?

Alfonso Soriano is two years older than his listed age of 26, the Rangers have revealed.
Soriano revealed his actual age to the Yankees last summer and the Rangers knew the truth before trading for him this week. This doesn't come as much of a surprise, as there have been rumors about Soriano being older than his listed age ever since he became a top prospect. The change makes it less likely that he'll get much better than he is now, but since Soriano is such a unique player, he could go in any direction regardless of how old he is.

not sure what to think here... So the rangers kicked back money and picked up a guy who is 2 years older than everyone thought? Great deal Hicks

[Desnudo]

To hell with where Maddux signed, let's get this thread back on track: Damn the Yankees and all the evil they represent. A conclusive study is coming out soon in The Economist that they are responsible for global warming, white slavery, syphillis, and the black plague.

[sterlingice]

To hell with where Maddux signed, let's get this thread back on track: Damn the Yankees and all the evil they represent. A conclusive study is coming out soon in The Economist that they are responsible for global warming, white slavery, syphillis, and the black plague. Global warming, yes (For better baseball weather in New York)
White slavery, yes (Something to do with blackmailing Giambi, Clemens, Wells, et al to come to the Yankees with threats of enslaved mothers)
Syphillis, yes (Steinbrenner wants to keep Jeter on a short leash so he created STDs to keep him from partying all night)
But, surprisingly enough, not the black plague. That was the CIA. ;)

SI

[Ksyrup]

you guys see this gem on rotoworld today?



not sure what to think here... So the rangers kicked back money and picked up a guy who is 2 years older than everyone thought? Great deal HicksInteresting. I don't see this on ESPN. Although, this info gives new meaning to the headline "Soriano to inject life into Rangers." Yes, 2 more years' worth!

[Ksyrup]

I found this interesting in Bob Klapisch's article:



"One major league executive said the Mets could have afforded Rodriguez, and have only themselves to blame for the Yankees' coup.

"Why didn't they pick up the phone and try to trade (Jose) Reyes (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7066)?" said the executive. "He's going to be a great player and costs a lot less than (Alfonso) Soriano (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6154). One guy is making $5.4 million, the other is making $300,000."

Do the math: With the $9 million (the Rangers are picking up) in deferred money, Soriano will cost $14 million. Next year he'll make $9 million in arbitration. Throw in the other $9 million and now Soriano will cost $18 million.

"I don't think that's such a great deal for Texas," the executive said. "Reyes might have made more sense if someone had been smart enough to think of it."


Soriano will cost Texas as much as, if not more than, A-Rod would have for the next couple of years. I guess that's worth ridding yourself of the rest of his contract...but if the two players are essentially a wash money-wise, is Texas just posturing when they say they've got more financial flexibility, and wouldn't it have made more sense to hold onto him, looking for a better deal?

[Ksyrup]

Clement's always been inconsistent. If the lights suddenly come on, great for the Cubs. If not, he'll be gone.

[ISiddiqui]

One major league executive said the Mets could have afforded Rodriguez, and have only themselves to blame for the Yankees' coup.

Is he saying that the Mets should have traded Reyes and it is the Mets fault that the Yanks got A-Rod? How silly! The Mets have Kaz Matsui now. Why would they want A-Rod and drive their payroll over $100 million again?

[Ksyrup]

Is he saying that the Mets should have traded Reyes and it is the Mets fault that the Yanks got A-Rod? How silly! The Mets have Kaz Matsui now. Why would they want A-Rod and drive their payroll over $100 million again?This was the lead-in to those paragraphs I cited. They suggest that the Mets may have been interested, seeing as though they lost out on him 3 years ago.



"And the crosstown Mets, who could have signed Rodriguez three years ago before deciding they couldn't afford him, are still stinging today.

"I find it curious that this was a deal that somehow only the Yankees could get done," Al Leiter (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4130) told the Newark Star-Ledger. "I mean, any team, or any team with the financial ability -- and there are more than a few -- would gladly spend $16 million a year to get Alex Rodriguez, as great a player as he is."

[sterlingice]

I may be mistaken now, but this time last year wasn't Reyes about as close to untouchable as any prospect in the minors? Last I checked, the Mets were thinking he *is* the next A-Rod so why give him and $100M up? Obviously, he's a prospect so there's no telling if he pans out, but, still- if I were them, I'd save that cash for pitching *and* see what Reyes can do.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Indeed. Leiter isn't being smart here. Kaz Matsui may be a great SS and Reyes can develop as a wonderful player playing 2B for a bit. Signing A-Rod would be a mess. Reyes would have no room to develop and I can't see them signing A-Rod and making him a 3B.

[Ksyrup]

An update from Rotworld...


According to the Newark Star-Ledger, the Rangers and Mets could talk later this spring about a trade that would send Alfonso Soriano back to New York for Jose Reyes and Tyler Yates.
It's believed that the Mets want Soriano, but they'd probably prefer to keep Reyes and build a deal around top pitching prospect Scott Kazmir. The Mets view Soriano as a right fielder, so they'd still want Reyes at second base.

[The_herd]

If the Mets trade Reyes I'm going to New York to punch the shit out of Jim Duquette.

[oykib]

A deal for A-Rod is probably the one positive way the Mets could have gotten rid of Roger Cedeno. I wonder if Hicks would have gone for Cedeno and Tom Glavine striaght up with no money changing hands. Maybe the Mets would have had to throw on a fig leaf prospect and Ty Wiggington or something.

But it is now obvious that Hicks was desperate to get rid of A-Rod. Every team that is not the Yankees and is in a middle to major market should be ashamed of themselves.

Don't the Giants have some more young pitching prospects in their system? Think of a lineup with 3. Bonds 4. A-Rod.

How about the Cubbies? They've got more cheap fireballers than you can shake a stick at. They also had Hee Seop Choi before that stupid deal with the Marlins. A-Rod would virtually have guarunteed them the Central.

We already know that Boston could have had Rodriguez and Magglio Ordonez instead of Garciaparra and Ramirez but for their own stupidity.

Wasn't Seattle in the market for a shortstop? Couldn't they have given Texas Guillen and that giant pitcher they've got in the minors, who'll never develop, to try and get A-Rod back?

Basically, the GMs in all these towns need to take a hit. The fact that Texas was willing to kick in as much money as they did knowing that they are getting a guy who's going to demand about half of A-rod's salary in his own right tells you that it was a buyer's market for one of the all-time greats. How often does that happen?

Actually, though, the Mets should take a bigger hit for not signing Guerrero. I was somewhat pissed myself that the Yanks went after Sheffield for a few million less rather than Guerrero. But the Yanks still got an impact hitter (that they really don't need).

Guerrero is the one of three young position players playing today that looks like he's going to be an all-time great. He's just entered his prime. His comps:

Similar Batters through Age 27
Willie Mays (929) *
Duke Snider (912) *
Orlando Cepeda (896) *
Manny Ramirez (894)
Joe DiMaggio (884) *
Jim Rice (882)
Frank Robinson (878) *
Hank Aaron (876) *
Hal Trosky (874)
Juan Gonzalez (872)

Most Similar by Age
22. Joe Medwick (935) *
23. Willie Mays (927) *
24. Willie Mays (927) *
25. Willie Mays (917) *
26. Willie Mays (908) *
27. Willie Mays (929) *

You can't let a player like that pass. Even if the lie they told about his health were true, he is wotrth the risk. How can a team that's paying a geriatric Tom Glavine $10 million pass up a guy whose most similar comp through age 27 is Willie Mays, and whose walk rate and power numbers have improved almost every year?

Seven of his ten best comparables are Hall of Famers. And we're not talking bullshit, borderline HoFers either. Four of those seven are among the twenty best players ever. Six of his top eight are Hall of Famers. Jim Rice is number six and he's nearly a HoFer. Manny Ramirez is number four.

Just ridiculous. The Mets are almost an object lesson on how not to run a franchise. They spend tens of millions of dollars on guys like Mo Vaughn, Tom Glavine, Roger Cedeno, and Cliff Floyd. Guys that anyone with half a capful of baseball knowledge could see were going to bust. Then, they get gunshy when an almost surefire upper echelon HOFer comes along.

I'll give them a pass on Roberto Alomar, whom I thought would do well myself, and Jeromy Burnitz, whom I didn't think would be bad-- although I thought his best years were behind him. But those two moves wouldn't have killed them had they spent the rest of their money wisely.

I feel for Mets fans everywhere.

[Ksyrup]

The fact that the Yankees will be paying less for A-Rod for 2004 and 2005 than the Rangers will for Soriano, should tell you something. The Yanks are going to end up paying A-Rod $14M a year through 2005, and Soriano costs them $5M this year, plus the $9M they are paying A-Rod, and next year will likely receive around $8-9M in arbitration, plus the $9M the Rangers are paying A-Rod.

This deal may give the Rangers more payroll flexibility, but it won't be until 2008!

[HornedFrog Purple]

Yeah I guess that's why they inked Blaylock for 5 years and are in talks with Texiera to do the same.

Soriano is gone by the trading deadline if not sooner.

These moves help free up money to go after Kerry Wood.

[oykib]

Yeah I guess that's why they inked Blaylock for 5 years and are in talks with Texiera to do the same.

Soriano is gone by the trading deadline if not sooner.

These moves help free up money to go after Kerry Wood.

If Soriano is gone by the deadline anyway, why not just get those prospects now and save the $3 million dollars that you are going to be paying him for half a season's work. Had the Rangers made it known that they would be willing to give up A-Rod at $13 million per I think they could have gotten an A prospect and two B prosects for him. They played their hand wrong.

If they'd let the NY or Chicago papers know that A-Rod was available under those circumstances, I think the Cubs or Mets would have been forced to make a move. Basically, because they went with Cashman an co.'s recommendation to keep it silent, they sold on the Yankees terms.

As much as A-Rod wanted to go to the East coast, I have to think that he'd have taken a deal to any contender in a major media market. Especially, if he could have stayed at short. Also, on any other team but the Yanks, he'd still be 'the man.' Anywhere else he goes, he's the reason that the team won the World Series. Even if he went to the Giants he'd be 1A, but he'd be credited with putting the team over the hump.

If he wins with the Yanks, it'll be considered a coattail championship. Every championship the Yankees win is Derek Jeter's championship, even though he hasn't been the best player on the team since 1999.

[HornedFrog Purple]

No one knows besides the teams involved who talked to who about anything, only if the teams want it to be known. I think it's safe to say that more than the Red Sox and Yankees talked to Texas about A-Rod.

Maybe because the union was such a pain regarding any kind of restructuring it scared off some suitors.

The point is you don't know and neither do I.

[oykib]

HFP, are you telling me that you think that the Rangers got thebest deal that they could for A-Rod?

But even worse than them-- I mean they were going to end up looking bad on any deal that they made-- I am really wondering about all the other conteders. Let's skip Houston, as I actually believe that they've pushed their payroll to the limit and they were busy getting Clemens.

But think of Anaheim, Los Angeles, Seattle, both Chicago teams, Boston...

Any one of those teams could have put together a better offer than the Yanks. Every one of those teams needed A-Rod more. I don't know what deals were offered. But if you are in the position to make a deal like that, you find a way to make it happen.

Basically the discussion started as, "OMG the Yaks buy another championship." But it turns out that just about every contender could have afforded him at the price that he was sold at. If you're one of these teams, you have to make it happen. That's why these GMs get paid ten to twenty times what you and I make.

The Yanks were going to make the playoffs regardless. They were also going to sell three-and-a-half million tickets without A-Rod. These other teams operate in a world of uncertainty. Having A-Rod would make their possible success just that much more certain-- both in wins and at the box office.

I guess the Cubs and Sox were going to have no trouble making money. But neither team has won a title since before the Eisenhower administration. So You'd think that they'd have done what it takes anyway.

[HornedFrog Purple]

HFP, are you telling me that you think that the Rangers got thebest deal that they could for A-Rod?

But even worse than them-- I mean they were going to end up looking bad on any deal that they made-- I am really wondering about all the other conteders. Let's skip Houston, as I actually believe that they've pushed their payroll to the limit and they were busy getting Clemens.

But think of Anaheim, Los Angeles, Seattle, both Chicago teams, Boston...

Any one of those teams could have put together a better offer than the Yanks. Every one of those teams needed A-Rod more. I don't know what deals were offered. But if you are in the position to make a deal like that, you find a way to make it happen.

Basically the discussion started as, "OMG the Yaks buy another championship." But it turns out that just about every contender could have afforded him at the price that he was sold at. If you're one of these teams, you have to make it happen. That's why these GMs get paid ten to twenty times what you and I make.

The Yanks were going to make the playoffs regardless. They were also going to sell three-and-a-half million tickets without A-Rod. These other teams operate in a world of uncertainty. Having A-Rod would make their possible success just that much more certain-- both in wins and at the box office.

I guess the Cubs and Sox were going to have no trouble making money. But neither team has won a title since before the Eisenhower administration. So You'd think that they'd have done what it takes anyway.

Knowing Tom Hicks, he probably did think it was the best deal he could get.

But putting that aside, of all the teams you mentioned, I don't think most of those teams would have absorbed that trade without more of a restructuring of A-Rod's contract except maybe the Red Sox and Dodgers.

Seattle has been trying to cut payroll, Anaheim could not take that contract and hope to keep a core for any length of time, the White Sox don't sell tickets no matter what kind of team they have.

There are only a couple of teams along with the Yankees that can do what the Yankees did. If some of these other teams you mentioned did do it, you'd see a Marlins firesale in a couple of years regardless of how they did.

That is really the difference.

[oykib]

I can understand your argument about the White Sox. I don't really believe it-- after all, what great superstars have the White Sox had and what consistent winners have they put on the field since the days of Shoeless Joe.

But other teams would get the revenue back at the gate with A-Rod on the team. A-Rod at $25 million is a losing proposition. A-Rod at $15 million is a good proposition. How much are the cubs paying Alex Gonzales to be their shortstop? Include him in the packege to get A-Rod and they'd only be adding maybe ten million to their payroll.

Seattle makes money like they print it themselves. They're just being cheap. Anaheim has already shown that they are in a spending mode. They could have shipped off the oft-offered Eckstein and Washburn for A-Rod and not added much to their wage bill.

I'm just not buying that only the Yanks could have or should have made this trade.

[stevew]

I'm Bummed, as a Philly fan that we couldnt get the ARod thing to Happen for us. I know our payroll is at its seams, but theres no Reason we couldnt have thrown them some stud arms and some young guys like Rollins and/or Burrell. Especially if Texas was willing to pay 10 mil a year of the deal :(

[HornedFrog Purple]

Seattle getting A-Rod would be a PR disaster. Most of the Mariner fans that post on this board hold A-Rod in contempt.

A-Rod at 15 million for 3 years is good, it's the rest of the contract they have to worry about.

The Cubs acquiring A-Rod eliminates any chance of resigning Kerry Wood. It is easier to find hitters for Wrigley Field than pitchers for Wrigley Field. Also the Rangers would not take Gonzales as they could move Michael Young to SS and also have a good prospect there (though his name escapes me at the moment).

For all we know maybe Anaheim offered that deal and the Rangers didn't want the players.

I never said the Yankees were the only ones that could have made this trade, but they were one of a couple.

[sterlingice]

I can understand your argument about the White Sox. I don't really believe it-- after all, what great superstars have the White Sox had and what consistent winners have they put on the field since the days of Shoeless Joe.

I'm just not buying that only the Yanks could have or should have made this trade.
The problem with the White Sox lies in that they're always going to be second fiddle to the Cubs. I was just thinking to myself "you know, I can't think of the last time the White Sox were in the cellar" and went over the baseball-refence.com. The last time they finished lower than 3rd in their division was 1989 and, while they only have 3 playoffs appearances to their record, have always been competitive with only one season under 80 wins (not including the two strike-shortened seasons). They had one of the premiere players in the early 90s in Frank Thomas. I remember that for 5 years, he and Griffery were the two marquee players in the big leagues. He hit .300 with 40 homers before everyone and their mom could do it. So I think that's not fair to say they haven't had consistent winning or major stars.

The Yanks were the only team that could have made this trade this late in the offseason. Everyone else had already spent their money so Hicks bargaining power was way down. If this is November, even an idiot like Hicks points out that a team's salary is low compared to last season and they have to pick up $20M of his remaining salary instead of getting him for a relative bargain like the Yankees did. And if they balk at that, then he moves onto the next suitor because there would have been many. Hicks priced everyone out of the competition and had to settle for dealing with the Yankees. Smart move on their part, stupid move on his, and the rest of baseball wishes they had that kind of payroll flexibility.

SI

[oykib]

SI, the White Sox record in hindsight looks good. But winning means pennants. You can't build a rep as a winning team with .500 records, even if you have .500 records every year. Also, Frank Thomas is one of the most boring great players of all time.

He doesn't play in the field very often, and when he did/does you wish he weren't/didn't. He works a walk every fourth plate appearance and it appears like that's what he's trying to do all the time. And he's proven once and for all that there is nothing in baseball duller than watching a slow righthanded hitter.

Over the years the White Sox haven't had that fireballing strikeout pitcher. Even in the seventies and eighties they didn't have that speed demon-- even though it seems like every other team has. But worst of all, they haven't won any championships. That's the real killer. A semi dynasty with a few pennants and/or championships would have a chance of turning around a few of the fans in that town. Going to Wrigley is always going to be an experience. But people always support a winner.

As an addendum to the big slow guy who takes the walk be the dullest thing in baseball-- I wonder if the fact that it's not fun to watch and therefore is not a box office or television draw is the real reason that Beane and the A's have moved to the pitching and defense model. The common wisdom is that he plans to keep Mulder, Zito, and Hudson and hopefully Harden as stud pitchers and has to maximize their effectiveness. But that has never made a whole lot of sense to me.

You win by outscoring your opponents. You can do that by holding them to a miniscule amount of runs and score a slightly-more-than-miniscule amount yourselves. Or you can do that by holding your opponent to a respectably low number of runs and scoring a good amount yourself. There are still bargains to be had in undervalued hitters. They don't really cost any more than no-bat defensive specialists. This idea is the only one that makes sense to me. I wonder if is having an impact or will have an impact going forward that the A's are cutting time off of the games and adding more dynamic plays.

[Ksyrup]

FYI, this is from Rob Neyer's latest column. I found this interesting, regarding the Yankees' payroll now vs. 25+ years ago:


"There's no guarantee they'll win on the field. But I'm not sure there's any reasonable limit to the Yankees' financial power. And you know, it's been like this for a long time. I attended a local SABR meeting this weekend, and Mike Rice noted that the Yankees' payroll, as a percentage of all MLB payroll, was essentially the same in 2003 as it was in 1977, and generally has remained stable since then."