any advice war games

[Galaril]

I was looking for a good WW2 game how are these two:
Airborne Assault:Highway to the Third Reich and Combat Mission games especially 2 or the new North Africa 3 (Africa corps).How are these which is the best especially single player against the computer AI.I prefer operational to tactical level turn-based or realtime is ok.

[Fritz]

what do you like in a game? Have you played many before?

[Galaril]

I haven't played any war games.I would like something that I could play mostly in single palyer against the AI.I was looking for a operational level game I think the tactical games would bore me too much ;to narrow scope.I would love to play a game where I could play the whole WW2 either Europe or the Pacific.I am waiting for Pacific War and World at War to com eout later this year.Alos the WW 2 rpg style games I am not too interested in such as Hidden/Dangerous or SilentStorm.So, what would you suggest?

[Fritz]

Pacific War may be a huge game to bite on. If the idea of naval war interests you, check out Uncommon Valor. UV is a similar game, by the same authors, but the scope of the game is limited to the Southwest Pacific in 42 and 43.

The game most people mention for new players is Panzer General, which may be free via Underdogs. It uses fuzzy accuracy and history, but is a good play.

A good operational level game that can be had for free is "The Ardennes Offensive." Free game can be had here: http://www.ssgus.com/ardennes-download.htm

If you like TAA, then consider Korsun Pocket from Matrix games. Korsun is based on TAA.

That is a good starter list.

[judicial clerk]

Hearts of Iron

[Godzilla Blitz]

At some point last year, someone pointed me towards a WWII game along the lines of Hearts of Iron, but quite a bit simpler. I've been trying to find that game the past couple of days, but haven't had any luck.

I think it was very much a traditional wargame, put out in the last couple of years, that similated WWII. I believe it included both the European and Pacific theaters, but it may have just been the European theater.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? I think it was only available online. It got pretty good reviews, if I remember correctly.

[Godzilla Blitz]

dola...

Galaril: I would second Fritz's recommendation of Panzer General I or II. Don't get III though.

[Godzilla Blitz]

double dola...

Got it:Strategic Command (http://www.battlefront.com/products/stratcom/stratcom.html#features)

[Fritz]

I am not a big fan of the general series. TOAW or PzC is more my speed, but everybody seems think PzGeneral is the way for a newb to go.

[Calis]

I think the TalonSoft East Front/West Front/Rising Sun games are a pretty decent place to start for a new wargamer. Seems to me to be PzC-lite.

I had a lot of fun with those at least. I'm a sucker for hypothetical scenarios though and I thought it had some cool campaigns for that.

GB- I played the demo to Strategic Command and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's very much a simple wargame though, moreso than Hearts of Iron. It's pretty addictive though, it's a lot like an Axis & Allies type of game on 'roids. One of these days I'll get around to buying it probably.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Fritz: I really enjoyed the first Panzer General, and have been thinking to go back to it again. I think I really enjoyed the experience/attribute gain aspect of your core, um, corps. I also found the game challenging. I might not have been very good at it, but I thought some of the scenarios were fairly hard.

Calis: I spent some time on their boards reading about the AI in Strategic Command. It doesn't get very high marks. Still, I think I might pick this one up at some point. It's $32 shipped, which isn't too bad. On a positive note, apparently they are in the process of making Strategic Command II, to be released some time this year.

For those that have played the East Front/West Front games, how were the campaigns? I bought the first East Front and thought the game was a mess. One of my worst gaming purchases ever. I heard the second version was much better. I actually have all three versions somewhere downstairs. I found their combo package on sale for $20 somewhere and picked it up. Not sure I ever installed it. Sigh.

[Fritz]

The East West games were developed by John Tiller for Talonsoft (The Battleground series was his as well). Tiller is the developer of most of the games at HPSsims, and all of his work has the "Tiller feel." His work at HPS is much stronger than the earlier projects, and he has assembled a fantastic development team. Since the games in a series share the same engine, Tiller retrofits his earlier games with the latest enchancements, so buying a 4 year old title is much the same as buying a newer one.

The PzC series suffers from two serious flaws: 1.) the larger games have some serious ai problems and 2.) a full campaign game takes forever to play. One turn can be too much for one evening.

http://www.hpssims.com/ - official site
http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/index.html - unoficial site

fwiw - I hate the east/west front games

GB - I liked PG 1, and loved fantasy general. The rest in the 5 star series were okay, but noting special. The follow ons do not interest me me at all. To be fair, I am a low fluff war gamer and am put off by the graphics. Others may feel exactly the opposite.

Another set of operational games the underdogs may have that superior are the V for Victory series.

[WSUCougar]

Wow, a Fantasy General reference! Great game that I played to death. I wish they'd do a modernization project on that little gem.

Galaril, to add in my opinion, as Fritz mentioned I think the more recent Tiller games would be a good starting point for you. While games like Uncommon Valor and Ardennes are quality stuff, I think they might overwhelm a newcomer. Hearts of Iron is a completely different animal that's hard to classify, but I'm not sure I'd want to start out with it. The Operational Art of War (TOAW) is a solid compromise and also a bargain bin game.

I was not fond of the East/West Front games either.

FYI I have many of the games mentioned here available for cheap in the Games for Sale section.

[Calis]

Fantasy General was great. Had some good times with that game.

Dang, guess I'm in the minority then in thinking the East/West Front games were pretty good games. Mostly I played Rising Sun though, and had a lot of fun with it. I guess I just mostly liked the wide scope the games encompassed. Could play about anything I was interested in at the moment.

I would also think that Ardennes is a lot more newbie friendly than the Tiller games from my looks at them. At least the redid TAO that's with Korsun Pocket. Not sure how much more obtuse the old one is. The Tiller games really lack any sort of decent tutorial, and Korsun Pocket has an oustanding one imo which is great for someone new to the genre.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I loved the V for Victory series. Before I had a PC I got them all for my Mac. I tried running them on my new Mac a while back but had no luck. Do the PC versions run well on newer systems?

I liked the concept and feel of the East/West game I played, but the AI in the first one was a mess. All the units would head straight for victory points like mosquitoes to a light. No front lines, nothing. You could (actually almost had to) make a circle around a victory point area and just wait for whatever it was to run straight at it. By the end of the game, your units would be in two or three large circles with enemy units surrounding them trying to break through. It was war unlike any other I've seen. I heard the AI in the next versions was much better. I should give them a try.

I'm most indifferent to the graphics (I turned off all the animations in PG after about twenty minutes and never turned them back on), but I like a challenging game. The Tiller games I've tried so far haven't impressed me as far as the AI goes. It doesn't have to be brilliant, but in the two or three games I played the AI struck me as fairly dumb. I haven't given them enough of a chance yet, so I might be wrong, but I got a sense (since I won easily twice without knowing what the hell I was doing) that the games might be easy enough to make them meaningless.

Has anyone tried any of the four Campaign games for Steel Panthers? Not the ones that come with the game, but the independent ones that are sold separately? I have the North Afrika and East Front ones, but haven't played them yet.

At some point I need to clone myself so I have time to play most of the games I've got.

[Fritz]

GB - PBEM on the PzC games is very very good (unless you get a guy who is dumber than the ai)

[Airhog]

Im surprised nobody mentions steel panthers: world at war. Thats a great game.

[Fritz]

I prefer operational to tactical level turn-based or realtime is ok.

this is why

[Airhog]

Fritz: Yes I realized that after mentioning it. Forgive me for not being a grognard :D

[Godzilla Blitz]

Fritz: Yes I realized that after mentioning it. Forgive me for not being a grognard :D

Airhog: Actually, I did mention Steel Panthers above. :) Have you tried any of the four campaign games sold for it?