Hoffman news confrence expected shortly--Barnett out in CU?

[Taur]

Should be in the next couple of minutes here in Colorado.

Local Denver news is repotring this is pretty much a done deal as the lawyers meeting was this afternoon.


BTW---Let the Frank Solich rumors begin now!

[korme]

Who cares, she couldn't even kick it through the uprights, she got harassed because she sucked at football.

That coach is an assclown.

[Draft Dodger]

they literally should throw all his stuff out on the lawn and kick his ass to the curb.

[MrBug708]

9pm PST is very late

[Taur]

I think they are trying to time it so they can be live during the 10 o'clock news. It is all about the media.

[Taur]

imagine that exactly 10:00 Hoffman has just sit down to the microphone

[Taur]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker.

[samifan24]

that stupid bitch kicker.

Tell me you're kidding.

[Glengoyne]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker.
Which remarks?

[damnMikeBrown]

I hope you have daughters.

[Taur]

Which remarks?
The remarks in which he said she was "a terrible kicker." They said that was an inappropoiate response to comment on her skill.

Now, please remember that she was "Verbally" raped by another team member.---My guess is the term "Bitch" was used.

[damnMikeBrown]

Uh, no, she was physically raped by another team member. She was constantly verbally and physically abused by the rest of the team, at practice. The rape was not at practice.

[Craptacular]

Only suspended???

[samifan24]

The remarks in which he said she was "a terrible kicker." They said that was an inappropoiate response to comment on her skill.

Now, please remember that she was "Verbally" raped by another team member.---My guess is the term "Bitch" was used.

Well, within the context of the situation, do you feel that his commenting on her athletic prowess was appropriate?

And yes, she was physically raped by a teammate.

Click here (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1737416) for the ESPN story detailing the account.

[MrBug708]

Remember, the actions are because of what he said, not what happened in the program. They are gonna investigate and this should get him out of the way for a total overhaul of the program.

Slick Rick is leaving his mark where he goes isn't he? UW and CU are close to getting the death penalty.

[AgPete]

I hope you have daughters.

Exactly. I don't have a daughter but I can feel the rage emitting from decent fathers around the country after reading the Rick Reilly CNN/SI story. The poor girl's father tried to get Barnett to stop the harassment and he didn't do a damn thing. Barnett should be kicked out of college football forever. Too bad most of the players probably aren't playing football anymore because I'd like to see some of those involved kicked off the team. Time to lock up some Colorado players. I hope they find enough evidence to lock up all the players accused of all these rapes.

[WussGawd]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker.

Frankly, this remark is way, way out of line. Barnett should be suspended. In fact, he should have been fired. I don't care if she couldn't kick her way out of a paper bag. This ceased to be a discussion about her athletic ability (or lack thereof), the moment the word "rape" entered the picture.

Frankly, Taur, you should be ashamed of yourself. :mad:

[Fonzie]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker.

The remarks in which he said she was "a terrible kicker." They said that was an inappropoiate response to comment on her skill.

Now, please remember that she was "Verbally" raped by another team member.---My guess is the term "Bitch" was used.

Good heavens. These rank among some of the most irresponsible comments I've ever seen on this board. And that's really saying something.

Taur, I think you'd do well to review your opinions on this matter. They are, as WussGawd said, way, way out of line.

[Taur]

Oops, it should he has been suspended "With" pay.

Q: What kind of player was she.

A: She was a terrible player. One of the worst kickers.

I still do not know why this is an inapropiate comment for a Head Football coach.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If she was so terrible, why did he keep her on the team? I don't know Gary Barnett at all, obviously, but it sounds like he's just so damn tired of his football program being exposed that he decided to attack the most vulnerable person he could. Unfortunately, that person happened to be someone who's (allegedly) been raped. He did not have to go there. This isn't necessarily about WHAT he said. It's about WHEN he said it, and I think it was very, very poor judgment on his part. If he had said that about her when she left Colorado a few years ago, it may have just seemed like sour grapes. Now it looks like he's trying to tear down her credibility. Excuse me, but when a woman says she's been raped, unless you have any evidence whatsoever to the contrary, it seems less than apropos (or, more accurately, just plain shitty) to attack her credibility at first opportunity.

[samifan24]

I still do not know why this is an inapropiate comment for a Head Football coach.

Well, when you take the comment out of context as you have done here, it does not seem to be an inappropriate comment; however, this is one situation where you cannot take the comment out of context and still comprehend the man's ignorance.

For the coach to make a comment on the kicker's athletic ability when the word "rape" is being batted around is utterly irresponsible and at the very least raises many questions about the man's maturity level, his level of involvement with his program, even his understanding of what really matters in this situation.

If you are still feel that those who have posted in this thread are angered by your quote about the kicker's ability, then you've sadly missed the point of our responses to your "bitch" comment.

[Taur]

If she was so terrible, why did he keep her on the team? I don't know Gary Barnett at all, obviously, but it sounds like he's just so damn tired of his football program being exposed that he decided to attack the most vulnerable person he could. Unfortunately, that person happened to be someone who's (allegedly) been raped. He did not have to go there. This isn't necessarily about WHAT he said. It's about WHEN he said it, and I think it was very, very poor judgment on his part. If he had said that about her when she left Colorado a few years ago, it may have just seemed like sour grapes. Now it looks like he's trying to tear down her credibility. Excuse me, but when a woman says she's been raped, unless you have any evidence whatsoever to the contrary, it seems less than apropos (or, more accurately, just plain shitty) to attack her credibility at first opportunity.
So, why isn't anyone blaming the reporter who asked the question about her football skill?

[Fonzie]

So, why isn't anyone blaming the reporter who asked the question about her football skill?

Reporters can ask whatever they want; its up to Barnett to choose which ones he answers. In this case, he made a very bad decision.

Regardless, the reporter should not be held accountable for Barnett's behavior.

And why on earth would you call her a bitch?

[tucker342]

Did he really need to come out and say that she sucked after she reported being raped?

And another thing, how does that make her a bitch?

[mckerney]

And another thing, how does that make her a bitch?

Because her reporting it hurt the program. All part of a blame the victim attitude in rape situations that I've seen far too much of.

[dawgfan]

Slick Rick is leaving his mark where he goes isn't he? UW and CU are close to getting the death penalty.

Uh, how does this situation have anything to do with Rick Neuheisel?

And if you think the UW is close to getting the death penalty, I have this great bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...

[Glengoyne]

The remarks in which he said she was "a terrible kicker." They said that was an inappropoiate response to comment on her skill.

Now, please remember that she was "Verbally" raped by another team member.---My guess is the term "Bitch" was used.
First things first. She was verbally abused, and physically assaulted on a regular basis by her team mates. She says she was actually raped by a team mate. Actually physically raped, as in imagine someone holding you down and shoving their dick in your ass.

Barnett shows his class by first offhandedly dismissing her claims. Then he trumps himself, by piling on to her saying she was terrible and awful. To quote him and the espn article: "It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful," he said. "Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it." He went beyond dismissal, and actually went after the victim. It is no wonder they had a 10PM press conference to suspend him. I'd be surprised if he makes it to Saturday with a job. He completely went off the deep end here and he needs to pay for it.

[Glengoyne]

dola,

So, why isn't anyone blaming the reporter who asked the question about her football skill?Because the reporter isn't paid to take the high road. Barnett was under fire, and he chose to fire back at an alleged rape victim.

[Glengoyne]

holy tripple dolas batman!
Oops, it should he has been suspended "With" pay.

Q: What kind of player was she.

A: She was a terrible player. One of the worst kickers.

I still do not know why this is an inapropiate comment for a Head Football coach.
It was inapropriate because he was being asked these questions because she reported that he did little or nothing to prevent her harrassment while she was at the university, and that one of his players raped her. He responds by brutally assessing her ability in public without any apparent concern for her feelings. Ripping your players in the media doesn't coach any popularity contests either with his players or the public. Insulting a rape victim in the media should get you fired.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Uh, how does this situation have anything to do with Rick Neuheisel?

And if you think the UW is close to getting the death penalty, I have this great bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...

I agree, as disappointing as Rick is, the current situation at CU had nothing to do with him. It ALL happened on Barnett's watch.

With the way TV contracts are now and the money involved, I don't think we will ever see the death penalty again. It penalizes the wrong people and TV wants the best teams for the huge dough they pay. With the recent finding of "lack of institutional control" at UW, you have to start thinking UW's problems were more the AD's than his. How convenient Barbara Hedges "retired" a couple of months ago.

I think Barnett should be gone, apart from the comments, he either new of the sex for recruits (fire him) or he didn't (but he should have so fire him). The captain must go down with the ship. I think the AD should probably be gone too. Time to clear house.

[Samdari]

I agree, as disappointing as Rick is, the current situation at CU had nothing to do with him. It ALL happened on Barnett's watch.

You're kidding right?

I would be stunned if using sex/stripper parties to woo recruits at CU started when Barnett got there.

I say this not to pile on Rick (which I normally do at every opportunity) because I can also say the following:

I would be stunned if using sex/stripper parties to woo recruits at CU started when Neuheisel got there.

[ScottVib]

Barnett's response:

"My remarks were taken out of context"

Responding to a comment about an alleged rape victim

"Katie was a girl, and not only was she a girl but she was terrible." I don't know how anyone could have taken that out of context.

The comments were just the straw that broke the camel's back, there was no way for CU to handle having Barnett as coach any further. They have to say it was soley because of the comments, because if they say it was because of the problems with the football program they are essentially admitting fault and as a result would have little chance of a favorable settlement in the lawsuits from the recruiting party rapes.

[ScottVib]

You're kidding right?

I would be stunned if using sex/stripper parties to woo recruits at CU started when Barnett got there.

I say this not to pile on Rick (which I normally do at every opportunity) because I can also say the following:

I would be stunned if using sex/stripper parties to woo recruits at CU started when Neuheisel got there.
According to the owner of the stripper company, the parties for recruits had been going on for 20 years... it wasn't a Barnett practice.

That said as both Maryland coach Gary Williams (yesterday Dan Patrik Show (ESPN radio)) and St. Joe's coach Martelli (this morning WHFS) have said in recent days ultimately you are responsible for all phases of the recruiting trip, and this is something that Barnett needed to actively discourage. Martelli pointed out with St. Joe's they are careful to pick the right guys to visit with recruits and then give the hosts some suggested activities (taylored to the recruits interests). To his credit he wasn't claiming to be naive, he knows that sometimes their suggestions don't get followed and said they deal with it. As he said ultimately he's responsible to the parents as well as to the university for what goes on during the recruiting visit.

[Ksyrup]

I'm glad to see that the CU President changed her reasoning for doing this. This was her comment a day or two ago:




"I have told him in no uncertain terms that that was an unacceptable remark," she said. "You have a rape allegation here. That's a very serious criminal allegation. It's simply inappropriate to essentially blame the victim, which is what he did."


I'm sorry, as inappropriate and insensitive as that remark was, it was in no way "blaming" her for the rape. In fact, it had nothing to do with the rape, which is, in part, what made it inappropriate - to comment on her athletic abilities during the investigation of a rape allegation.

[Ajaxab]

Barnett also talked about football culture (or at least Colorado football culture) during the course of his remarks on the female kicker. He talked about how football players have to earn one another's respect. That's when the comments about the female kicker's ability were made. The suggested implication of these remarks seemed to be that because she wasn't that good, she was not worthy of respect. For Barnett to connect respect and her ability was to excuse the alleged sexual assault. He may as well have said she had it coming and it was her fault.

If he had left it at talking about the kicker's ability, I don't think this would have blown up to the degree that it has, even if those comments would have been stupidly inappropriate.

[Subby]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker. I am still interested in hearing from you why she is a stupid bitch kicker...

[pjstp20]

Barnett has been suspended without pay because of his remarks about that stupid bitch kicker.Dude you should get suspended for these comments, your no different then that scumbag Barnett.

[Taur]

As a CU alumni I can tell you she was a BITCH.

This was a girl who was on the football team over Barnetts protests The AD is 100% responsible for her wearing a CU jersey. She didn't like to do team conditioning, she would not particapte in team contact drills, and she was always a no show for off season weight training. BUT, she did like and Demanded to suit up for home games. Like I said a real Bitch, that always ran to mommy(AD) when things did not go her way.

[pjstp20]

Oh man, you just dont get it do you? Just because your program is crumbling doesn't mean you have to go after the character of an alleged rape victim, it justifies nothing. Theres a time and a place to comment on those things and now is deffinitly not the time, you and Barnett need to learn some tact, seriously.

[HornedFrog Purple]

The death penalty is a myth. It will never happen again in college football.

Write it down.

[Ksyrup]

The suggested implication of these remarks seemed to be that because she wasn't that good, she was not worthy of respect. For Barnett to connect respect and her ability was to excuse the alleged sexual assault. He may as well have said she had it coming and it was her fault.

If he had left it at talking about the kicker's ability, I don't think this would have blown up to the degree that it has, even if those comments would have been stupidly inappropriate.
I guess I'd have to hear/read the whole interview to get a better impression, but if the interview turned from the rape to her activities on the football team and her abilities, then I think it's a stretch to connect the two. Again, he shouldn't have even let the interview get that far, and what he said given the circumstances was inappropriate, but I don't see how his comments about her ability and the lack of respect she earned from teammates had anything to do with the rape. I guess it depends on how the interview flowed, and like I said, I haven't seen it.

I don't know why people allow themselves to be put in the position of making an ass of themselves. That's all the media is after - a story. So why give them something out of nothing? A simple "no comment" on the entire matter would have sufficed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm sorry, as inappropriate and insensitive as that remark was, it was in no way "blaming" her for the rape.
Good call, good post.

In fact, it had nothing to do with the rape, which is, in part, what made it inappropriate - to comment on her athletic abilities during the investigation of a rape allegation.
Now that does bring up an interesting question:

IF he was asked about her athletic abilities, does the investigation make it impossible (socio-politically) for him to answer the question? Is his only option to avoid drawing fire to say something along the lines of "Well, there's more serious issues at hand right now & I don't really want to comment about that?

What I'm bumping into here is having a hard time condemning an honest answer to a question that someone asked (if that's indeed the case as someone suggested earlier).

Seems to me I'd be more upset that (I presume) an idiot asked about football ability in the midst of a rape investigation, because I really don't see how that's relevant. I mean, if the alleged victim was a physicist, would someone have asked about her skills in the lab?

[Ksyrup]

What I'm bumping into here is having a hard time condemning an honest answer to a question that someone asked (if that's indeed the case as someone suggested earlier).

"Well, there's more serious issues at hand right now & I don't really want to comment about that."

That would have been the appropriate answer, in my mind. Just because someone asks you something, doesn't mean you need to answer it, even if you have an answer for it.

[pjstp20]

"Well, there's more serious issues at hand right now & I don't really want to comment about that?
This is the response that should have been made. It doesnt take a genius. It's just that some coaches are so arrogant that even in the midst of something like this, they want to exhibit some control over the situation.

[pjstp20]

Dola - BTW, reporters are known for asking stupid questions, and even baiting coaches or players into sticking their feet in their mouths. If a player/coach can say "no comment" to a stupid question during a press conference after a football game, why can't they do it here?

[MrIllini]

As a CU alumni I can tell you she was a BITCH.

This was a girl who was on the football team over Barnetts protests The AD is 100% responsible for her wearing a CU jersey. She didn't like to do team conditioning, she would not particapte in team contact drills, and she was always a no show for off season weight training. BUT, she did like and Demanded to suit up for home games. Like I said a real Bitch, that always ran to mommy(AD) when things did not go her way.

Didn't someone ask for a REAL or GOOD reason? Not just "I think"...

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is the response that should have been made. It doesnt take a genius. It's just that some coaches are so arrogant that even in the midst of something like this, they want to exhibit some control over the situation.
Do we at least also ding the idiot who asked the question?

{note: I'm open to the whole "no comment" thing, I'm just working on whether there's some more blame to go 'round}

[pjstp20]

As a CU alumni I can tell you she was a BITCH.

......she would not particapte in team contact drills
Since when does a kicker participate in contact drills anyway?

[Ksyrup]

Do we at least also ding the idiot who asked the question?

{note: I'm open to the whole "no comment" thing, I'm just working on whether there's some more blame to go 'round}
My answer is either "I don't think so," or "We should ding reporters for EVERYTHING they do that is wrong." To me, asking this question is hardly as inappropriate as attempting to interview someone as they are being told of a loved one's death. But that happens all of the time, and no one gets particularly bothered by it - at least not enough to DO something about it. So it seems unfair to go after this reporter in this instance.

[Subby]

As a CU alumni I can tell you she was a BITCH.

This was a girl who was on the football team over Barnetts protests The AD is 100% responsible for her wearing a CU jersey. She didn't like to do team conditioning, she would not particapte in team contact drills, and she was always a no show for off season weight training. BUT, she did like and Demanded to suit up for home games. Like I said a real Bitch, that always ran to mommy(AD) when things did not go her way. You guys hang out a lot? Did you go out to parties together? Study together? Did she invite you to dinner when her parents were in town for parents' weekend?

I didn't think so. Your assertions are even more embarrassing now that you have backed them up with 3rd-hand speculation and hearsay. It is bad enough making that value judgement about a person when you don't know them. But to make them in a thread about that person and an alleged rape is just completely unfathomable.

[QuikSand]

I'm glad this forum has a simple "ignore" feature.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But that happens all of the time, and no one gets particularly bothered by it
Largely because it's extremely popular stuff with the viewers, otherwise it wouldn't be done with great frequency. (FTR, I'm not defending the tactic, I'm just offering an explanation for it. My unwillingness to do "grieving widow" stories is one of several reasons I turned down a couple of chances to move on to bigger jobs during my time in broadcasting)

I kinda see a distinction in this case though, instead of being glued to the tube by it, people generally seem to be upset about the answer, so I was working from the notion that they might also be disturbed by the question that (apparently) prompted the answer.

Also FTR, it really has nothing to do with what the "right" answer would have been, it's just a tangent that struck me interesting.

(Again, I haven't seen gavel-to-gavel coverage of the press conference or what ever venue the comment was made in. I'm working from the belief that it wasn't an unprompted remark)

[SirFozzie]

Agreed. Taur, welcome to the Idiot Zone. Population: You.

[timmynausea]

I'm not entirely defending Barnett, but I don't think what he said was as bad as everyone else thinks. I think the comments have been taken out of context. He was defending himself against the allegations that he did nothing to stop the harrassment of Katie when she was at CU. So essentially, he said "The team will respect you, as long as you can go out there and play. Well, this was a girl and she couldn't play. She sucked."
Imagine you're on a football team and there's all this media coverage of the girl on your team (cause she's the only one in college football.) And she doesn't work hard in practice. And she sucks at football. Of course you're going to hate her. There's nothing the coach can do about it. That's what Barnett was trying to say.
Now, it was a rather inappropriate thing to say given the serious nature of the other allegations, but I still feel bad for Barnett. He is being hounded by the press, obviously is frustrated and said one bad thing that has been taken out of context.

[Subby]

Imagine you're on a football team and there's all this media coverage of the girl on your team (cause she's the only one in college football.) And she doesn't work hard in practice. And she sucks at football. Of course you're going to hate her. There's nothing the coach can do about it. That's what Barnett was trying to say.If you take this approach it makes Barnett's words look more than innapropriate. It practically makes him a co-conspirator.

[timmynausea]

If you take this approach it makes Barnett's words look more than innapropriate. It practically makes him a co-conspirator.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Let me make one thing clear. When I say hate I mean it in like a hate the kid that runs too slow and now we all have to do extra laps way. I think hating this girl that loafs in practice and sucks at football is just an extension of that kind of thing.
Now I could be wrongly treating it too innocently as I'm not clear on how far the harrassment actually went. But I definitely make a distinction between the girl being harrassed and the rape accusation. They are completely different cases. Barnett's comments only touched on the harrassment.

[samifan24]

Barnett's comments only touched on the harrassment.

It would seem that Barnett's comments were inappropriate given the circumstances anyway, don't you think?

[timmynausea]

It would seem that Barnett's comments were inappropriate given the circumstances anyway, don't you think?
Yeah, I said earlier that I still feel they were inappropriate, all things considered. I just think the comments look a lot worse out of context.

[corbes]

Now I could be wrongly treating it too innocently as I'm not clear on how far the harrassment actually went.

Farther than you think, apparently, but the degree to which she was harrassed is not the turning point, in my mind. The intention, either way, is the same.

[bertogarce]

I hope they find enough evidence to lock up all the players accused of all these rapes.

As for the alleged rape of Katie Hndia, there's no way for the police to properly investiagate this claim because she won't talk to them about it. Apparently she feels more comfortable speaking with a reporter from a national publication than the local police. By saying that she was raped, and not going to police with names or information, she is 1) casting guilt upon the entire Colorado football program; 2) not giving parties an opportunity to defend themselves. She throws out this bomb, yet gives no information and details. I hope she goes to the police with information, and if this rape did indeed happen, the assbag who sexually assaulted her gets his due.

[AgPete]

As for the alleged rape of Katie Hndia, there's no way for the police to properly investiagate this claim because she won't talk to them about it. Apparently she feels more comfortable speaking with a reporter from a national publication than the local police. By saying that she was raped, and not going to police with names or information, she is 1) casting guilt upon the entire Colorado football program; 2) not giving parties an opportunity to defend themselves. She throws out this bomb, yet gives no information and details. I hope she goes to the police with information, and if this rape did indeed happen, the assbag who sexually assaulted her gets his due.

I don't know what's been going on with her specific case but I did see Sportscenter the other night where they profiled all the women who had come forward with rape allegations and some are seeking legal action.

[bertogarce]

I don't know what's been going on with her specific case but I did see Sportscenter the other night where they profiled all the women who had come forward with rape allegations and some are seeking legal action.


The three women who had previously said they were raped are filing a civil lawsuit against the University of Colorado. The District Attorney investigated their claims and determined there was not enough evidence to bring criminal charges.

[Glengoyne]

For those that said that Barnett didn't blame the victim. Well I think that is just an extension of him blaming her for his male players harassing her. He said that she wasn't being harassed because she was a woman, but because she wasn't a good player. Given that he has taken that possition on the harassment. I don't think, given the completely inappropriate nature of his comments, it is that far of a stretch.

He is going to be fired, the suspension was just the first step in that process. He is going to be fired sooner rather than later because he is apparently too stupid to assess his situation. He was eventually going to be fired because he lacked essential character to be responsible for his players.

Oh and this just in. ESPN is reporting that when confronted with one of his players being investigated for rape, he told the victim in that instance that IF she came forward, he would back his player 100 percent. He has gone beyond lacking character, he is actually becoming a scumbag.

Oh and Taur, since you seem to be so fond of throwing the term around, I have decided to make you my new bitch. Welcome to the posse.

[Butter]

So, we've got a CU alum and a guy from Boulder who think that actually everything's not as bad as it seems.

OK, sure. Everything's bad until it happens to your team. I admit, I am an Ohio State apologist, but if Maurice Clarett had come back next year, I don't think I could have in good conscience watched them play. Is the university corrupt? Possibly, and if they are, they need to pay for it.

Why, if you are a CU alum or fan, is this so hard to accept? I've heard now from 2 CU apologists that either the kicker is a bitch, or that she is a wuss for not choosing to file criminal charges. Why is it so hard for people to accept that bringing rape charges is unbelievably difficult for the victim? Maybe it's because so often it ends up exactly as stated here... the DA says there is not enough evidence to file charges against the attacker. Why come forward and subject yourself to scorn when there is very little chance that anything meaningful will come of it?

[bertogarce]

Oh and this just in. ESPN is reporting that when confronted with one of his players being investigated for rape, he told the victim in that instance that IF she came forward, he would back his player 100 percent. He has gone beyond lacking character, he is actually becoming a scumbag.

A police report was released last night containing the above allegation. I suspect that was the straw that broke the back of Barnett's Colorado coaching career.

[mckerney]

She didn't like to do team conditioning, she would not particapte in team contact drills, and she was always a no show for off season weight training. BUT, she did like and Demanded to suit up for home games. Like I said a real Bitch, that always ran to mommy(AD) when things did not go her way.

Think any of that could do will all the harrasment her teammates subjected her to?

[timmynausea]

Why is it so hard for people to accept that bringing rape charges is unbelievably difficult for the victim? Maybe it's because so often it ends up exactly as stated here... the DA says there is not enough evidence to file charges against the attacker. Why come forward and subject yourself to scorn when there is very little chance that anything meaningful will come of it?
The girl is subjecting herself to just as much scorn by going to the press. I do think it makes it somewhat suspect for her to go to the media and not file any charges. I mean, if you're not seeking justice by getting the rapist punished by the law, what are you seeking? The obvious answer would be attention.

[Fonzie]

The girl is subjecting herself to just as much scorn by going to the press. I do think it makes it somewhat suspect for her to go to the media and not file any charges. I mean, if you're not seeking justice by getting the rapist punished by the law, what are you seeking? The obvious answer would be attention.

Or a genuine desire to see change in the Colorado program that caused her so much grief.

[bertogarce]

Why, if you are a CU alum or fan, is this so hard to accept? I've heard now from 2 CU apologists that either the kicker is a bitch, or that she is a wuss for not choosing to file criminal charges. Why is it so hard for people to accept that bringing rape charges is unbelievably difficult for the victim? Maybe it's because so often it ends up exactly as stated here... the DA says there is not enough evidence to file charges against the attacker. Why come forward and subject yourself to scorn when there is very little chance that anything meaningful will come of it?

I never said she was a "wuss". As an attorney who deals with sexual assault issues on a regular basis, I understand how terribly difficult it is for a rape victim to come forward. In this instance, Katie did come forward, in the largest national sports publication in the country. However, by simply saying she was assaulted, with no specifics whatsoever, she is casting guilt upon the entire Colorado football program and giving no opportunity for defense. I would hope she goes to the authorities so this matter can be investigated and prosecuted if need be.

[Butter]

I'm sure there's nothing she loves more than talking about rape.

[AgPete]

The girl is subjecting herself to just as much scorn by going to the press. I do think it makes it somewhat suspect for her to go to the media and not file any charges. I mean, if you're not seeking justice by getting the rapist punished by the law, what are you seeking? The obvious answer would be attention.

As someone who has known women that were raped and didn't report it, I can understand why they don't want to go through the trial, embarrassment, stress, and everything else involved. It's not as easy as a one hour episode of NYPD Blues. It's a sad state of affairs what women have to subject themselves to when they allege rape. I can see why she would have avoided the frenzy that would have occured especially because of her unique situation as a female football player. She did state that kicking for Colorado was her lifelong dream. I imagine she was disillusioned as hell after these events. I can also see her not having the courage to step forward until other women did so.

[bertogarce]

I'm sure there's nothing she loves more than talking about rape.

I'm sure it's horrible for her to talk about it. However, she had the courage to speak with Rick Reilly at Sports Illustrated about it. Maybe she could talk about it one more time to the police.

[Butter]

I'm sure it's horrible for her to talk about it. However, she had the courage to speak with Rick Reilly at Sports Illustrated about it. Maybe she could talk about it one more time to the police.

I was more responding to timmynausea saying that she was seeking attention than replying to you.

[timmynausea]

As someone who has known women that were raped and didn't report it, I can understand why they don't want to go through the trial, embarrassment, stress, and everything else involved. It's not as easy as a one hour episode of NYPD Blues. It's a sad state of affairs what women have to subject themselves to when they allege rape. I can see why she would have avoided the frenzy that would have occured especially because of her unique situation as a female football player. She did state that kicking for Colorado was her lifelong dream. I imagine she was disillusioned as hell after these events. I can also see her not having the courage to step forward until other women did so.
I am certainly aware of and sympathetic to rape victims and their reluctance to come forward. It is certainly plausible that Katie came forward merely because this is the first time she was able to for whatever reason.
I am just too cynical to believe that entirely. Something about the number of victims of any type who don't press charges but are willing to talk about their experiences on tv or in magazines makes it harder to believe.
I don't mean to come off as a jerk or anything, though. Most everything I've said has been for argument's sake.

[albionmoonlight]

[As always, the following works on the assumption that her allegations are true.]

So . . . if she had brought a civil and/or criminal suit, then people would claim that she is simply out for "revenge" or is a "money grubbing whore"

But, now that she has not brought a suit . . .people claim that she is "weak?"

I guess the lesson here is "don't get raped." Oh, wait--it wasn't her fault.

[Fonzie]

I'm sure it's horrible for her to talk about it. However, she had the courage to speak with Rick Reilly at Sports Illustrated about it. Maybe she could talk about it one more time to the police.

Toward what end? What is the likelihood of achieving a conviction in a 4 year-old rape case that likely has no biological evidence?

If the chances are slim, then I'd see no compelling reason for her to bother with the police. She can make whatever claims she likes in the press - and the accused can respond in kind, if they like. The public will form their own opinions - and her story seems credible, especially in light of the other recent allegations of rape at CU.

But to suggest that she needs to take this to the police is to miss her point - she doesn't want to pursue a likely futile criminal investigation. Rather, she appears to want to see things change at CU. How is that unreasonable?

[druez]

First off all there is no proof of rape. She accused someone of rape. By the story she told that happened, she made no mention of physical penatration. Also, she said the "rape" stopped because the phone rang?

She isn't filing charges either. So, why in the world should we assumed that she was raped.

2nd point, as the captain of the team stated. Barnett did yell at the players and told them to treat her with respect. The captain then stated that the team seemed to stop bothering her. Also, stated that she was called names, but he went on to state we all got called names and himself included.

Without the facts we really can't say whether she was raped or not. With her not pressing charges, we will never no. If she was raped though, why didn't she press charges?

[timmynausea]

Toward what end? What is the likelihood of achieving a conviction in a 4 year-old rape case that likely has no biological evidence?

If the chances are slim, then I'd see no compelling reason for her to bother with the police. She can make whatever claims she likes in the press - and the accused can respond in kind, if they like. The public will form their own opinions - and her story seems credible, especially in light of the other recent allegations of rape at CU.

But to suggest that she needs to take this to the police is to miss her point - she doesn't want to pursue a likely futile criminal investigation. Rather, she appears to want to see things change at CU. How is that unreasonable?
I guess I'm not quite clear on what is going to change? Firing Barnett? I don't get this argument at all.
I can see someone wanting to come forward merely because they are able to for the first time. For personal reasons. To get something off their chest, more or less.
But the idea of changing an institution or place because of rape... I mean, a lot of rape occurs in Detroit, but nobody would suggest someone came forward to see things change in Detroit.
I understand that this isn't really a fair comparison, but I just think individuals commit rape. It happens everywhere. Every city. Every college campus.
I don't think the policies of the Colorado athletic department encourage rape. And I can't imagine myself as a rape victim wanting to come forward to change the Colorado football program. Is there something I'm missing in all of this?

[Fonzie]

First off all there is no proof of rape. She accused someone of rape. By the story she told that happened, she made no mention of physical penatration.

Actually, she did. Read the original Reilly article and you'll find that tidbit along with answers to some of your questions.

hxxp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/rick_reilly/02/16/hnida/index.html

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is there something I'm missing in all of this?
I'm starting to wonder the same thing myself.

And no, that's not a sly shot at you (you'll get plenty of those later I imagine) but rather an honest admission on my part.

There's a whole bunch of stuff swirling around CU right now, and some of it involves the female kicker. But I'm not sure what to make of that part. Granted, my day has not been consumed with following this story, so maybe I'm missing some details but as far as I can tell.

1) There's Hndia, who has publically accused an unnamed player(s) of raping her.

2) The alleged incident was not reported to authorities at the university nor to the police at the time.

3) There's still no active police invesigation into this specific incident.

Like I said, maybe I'm missing a detail somewhere, or I've gotten this story tangled with some of the other stories, or something like that. But if those three facts are essentially straight then ...

Yeah, I feel there's legitimate reason to doubt the accuracy of the claim.

-- She'd certainly have motive to take a shot at CU since I gather her football career didn't pan out very well.
-- Other recent incidents certainly seem to provide opportunity for such an allegation

Motive + Opportunity = ???

The question marks mean that there's at least room for any reasonable person to doubt her claims & to do so without getting blasted for it. Right now, there's just not enough facts available to do much of anything else.

And given recent incidents where athletes were accused that were later found unwarranted, I just don't understand giving this claim a free pass at this point.

Some evidence, more facts, a confession -- fine, I reserve the right to weigh new information. But right now, I just don't think there's enough to convict anybody of anything involving Hndia, certainly not legally & not even in the court of public opinion.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't know if she was raped or not. However, as Scottvib has pointed out in some excellent posts, there is certainly some information out there that would seem to support her claims.

Despite my lack of knowledge of whether or not she was raped, I definitely know that Barnett's comments were classless. I think Taur's were worse or at least just as bad. I'm ashamed to see a member of our community make such thoughtless statements. Of course, I realize no community is perfect and there is going to be someone in every large group who comes off as a jerk.

[Maple Leafs]

Is there a transcript of the interview where the coach made the comments? I'd be curious to see that.

The only way it could in any way be excusable is if the context was specifically not referring to the actual rape. And even then, as others have pointed out, "no comment" would have been the smart answer.

Was it along the lines of "Q: Care to comment on the girl being raped? A: Oh well, she was a lousy kicker"? Or was it closer to "Q: Was she verbally abused by the other players? A: No more than any other terrible player"?

[Tigercat]

Ok Taur, since most would agree you are an Ahole, I guess no one should worry if you are part of a team, and then beaten and raped by teamates?

Its just football and the school you went to. Your loyalty to a university should be secondary to your loyalty to your fellow person, regardless of your opinions on that person. We all have family members that may be able to qualify as aholes or bitches by some people(hell some of us ourselves may be so), does that mean we shouldn't care if they are raped or abused? How about some human compasion.

[bertogarce]

Is there a transcript of the interview where the coach made the comments? I'd be curious to see that.

Barnett was asked a general question about Hnida's athletic ability. He replied, "Simple. It's a guy's sport. (Players) felt like Katie was forced on them. It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful. You know what guys do? They respect your ability. You can be 90 years old, but if you can go out and play, they'll respect you. Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it."

Under normal cicrumstances, this comment was simply uncalled for. In the context of a rape allegation, it likely cost him his job.

[Maple Leafs]

Barnett was asked a general question about Hnida's athletic ability. He replied, "Simple. It's a guy's sport. (Players) felt like Katie was forced on them. It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful. You know what guys do? They respect your ability. You can be 90 years old, but if you can go out and play, they'll respect you. Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it."
...

Please tell me that was immediately followed by "Which might explain some of the verbal abuse but in no way could ever excuse any of the more serious allegations."

Please?

[Glengoyne]

Barnett was asked a general question about Hnida's athletic ability. He replied, "Simple. It's a guy's sport. (Players) felt like Katie was forced on them. It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful. You know what guys do? They respect your ability. You can be 90 years old, but if you can go out and play, they'll respect you. Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it."
So he had no problem with his players being abusive toward her? I think this is more evidence of a lack of character. Simply put, he should have known it was a sensitive situation to have a female on a male atheletic team. The ramifications of that situation that should be obvious to anyone. She should have been hands off, and he should have made it clear that that was the case. Instead he brushed off allegations by saying she was only being singled out because she was a bad player. It was his responsibility to protect her, and he decisively failed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Simply put, he should have known it was a sensitive situation to have a female on a male atheletic team."

Given his assessment of her abilities, it kinda begs the question of:
What was she doing on the team in the first place?

[bertogarce]

Given his assessment of her abilities, it kinda begs the question of: What was she doing on the team in the first place?

Publicity stunt by former Coach Rick Neuhiesel.

[WussGawd]

As someone who has known women that were raped and didn't report it, I can understand why they don't want to go through the trial, embarrassment, stress, and everything else involved. It's not as easy as a one hour episode of NYPD Blues. It's a sad state of affairs what women have to subject themselves to when they allege rape. I can see why she would have avoided the frenzy that would have occured especially because of her unique situation as a female football player. She did state that kicking for Colorado was her lifelong dream. I imagine she was disillusioned as hell after these events. I can also see her not having the courage to step forward until other women did so.

Exactly. I have known two women who were rape victims. One of them went forward with reporting it, the other did not. My friend who did come forward described the process as being raped twice...first by the scumbag who did it to her, then by the court-appointed defense attorneys who tried to paint her as a willing participant (a defense that failed to stand up in court, fortunately).

Although I certainly do not know the facts of the case, one need look no further than the Kobe Bryant trial to see the amount of scrutiny a rape victim in a high profile case (or any case, for that matter) gets, and that girl in Colorado still hasn't stepped inside a courtroom.

[Maple Leafs]

She should have been hands off, and he should have made it clear that that was the case.Not sure I'd agree with that. If she's on the team, she should be held to the same standards as the other players, shouldn't she?

Not having played football at that level, I have no idea how much of this stuff is expected to go in a locker room. But shouldn't she be subjected to it just as much (but not more) than anyone else?

[bertogarce]

...

Please tell me that was immediately followed by "Which might explain some of the verbal abuse but in no way could ever excuse any of the more serious allegations."

Please?

I wish I could say his comments were followed by those remarks. They were not, and subsequently, Gary Barnett has likely coached his final game for the University of Colorado.

[Maple Leafs]

I wish I could say his comments were followed by those remarks. They were not, and subsequently, Gary Barnett has likely coached his final game for the University of Colorado.Good riddance.

[WussGawd]

Ok Taur, since most would agree you are an Ahole, I guess no one should worry if you are part of a team, and then beaten and raped by teamates?

Its just football and the school you went to. Your loyalty to a university should be secondary to your loyalty to your fellow person, regardless of your opinions on that person. We all have family members that may be able to qualify as aholes or bitches by some people(hell some of us ourselves may be so), does that mean we shouldn't care if they are raped or abused? How about some human compasion.

Right. Also, I don't think loyalty to a university means you have to put on black and gold (in CU's case) or maroon and gold (ASU) blinders on. You can cheer for a university, and cry out when there's a problem for it to be fixed.

I'm an alumnus of Arizona State. You may remember their little basketball point shaving scandal a few years back. I'm loyal to my university, but I'm also far-sighted enough to realize what a stain Bill Frieder, Hedake Smith, et al. were on my school's reputation. We're still paying the price for that gambling scandal, and the last fixed game ended 10 years ago.

And nothing they did can even compare to the crimes being alleged at Colorado. I can assure you, regardless of whether these allegations prove true or false, that any kid with an ounce of integrity, any kid with parents who have an ounce of integrity just scratched Colorado off their short-list. Looking at it from the perspective of a CU alumnus or rooter, you should be more concerned with how your university cleans up the mess than running interference for a coach who has pretty well established that he grades an F in the Human Being category.

[druez]

So he had no problem with his players being abusive toward her? I think this is more evidence of a lack of character. Simply put, he should have known it was a sensitive situation to have a female on a male atheletic team. The ramifications of that situation that should be obvious to anyone. She should have been hands off, and he should have made it clear that that was the case. Instead he brushed off allegations by saying she was only being singled out because she was a bad player. It was his responsibility to protect her, and he decisively failed.


If a woman wants to play on a team with men, why should she be treated any differently then the men?

[WussGawd]

If a woman wants to play on a team with men, why should she be treated any differently then the men?

Hmm. Didn't know that physical assaults and rape were part of being on a football team. :rolleyes:

[druez]

Wussgawd, there is no proof that it took place at all. I'm talking more to the locker room atmosphere, in terms of name calling, teasing etc...

[Maple Leafs]

Hmm. Didn't know that physical assaults and rape were bought of being on a football team. :rolleyes:Come on. You know he was replying to Glengoyne's post about her getting special protection from the coaching staff. He even quoted that post, for goodness sake, and you still tried to score cheap points by pretending he was referring to the rape. Poor form.

[pjstp20]

You Barnett defenders just dont understand the situation do you? Wether or not her alligations are true isnt the point. When there's allegations of rape flying around, that is not the time to comment on the alleged victims football skill level. EVEN if that question is presented to you. Its so simple, quit trying to make it something more complicated then that. Barnett will pay for it with his job and thats how it should be, good ridance you sexsist f'ing pig.

[damnMikeBrown]

Druez played for the NY team. The one with the pine cones & orange cone insertion drills.

[druez]

Coming from the team captain at the time. This is his quote regarding the situation and her treatement. Barnett did indeed do something about the problem. Noone was notified that she was "raped" so how could the Colorodo coaching staff do anything about it? Or law enforcement?

If this was an HR person from somewhere talking about her being a bad player that is one thing. But you are asking a football coach about a player? What do you want him to say?

Below are quotes...


Barnett later that day snapped at a reporter who asked him about her abilities. "It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful," he said. "Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it."

Ryan Johanningmeier, who was a team captain while Hnida played at Colorado, said Thursday some teammates could be "a bit nasty."


"However, we all get called names. I got called names," he told ABC-TV's "Good Morning America."


Johanningmeier said that when one player's comments about Hnida got too personal, Barnett "gave this guy a pretty good reprimand in front of the team, reminded us once again that this was a player on the team who needs to be treated with respect. A lot of it stopped at that point, from what I saw."

[pjstp20]

"Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible" what a funny quote, like your doing something wrong being a girl in the first place.

If you cant see someting wrong with what Barnett did, I'm not gonna waste my energy explaining it to you because you'll never get it.

[WussGawd]

Come on. You know he was replying to Glengoyne's post about her getting special protection from the coaching staff. He even quoted that post, for goodness sake, and you still tried to score cheap points by pretending he was referring to the rape. Poor form.

Apparently I missed that one.

And yes, verbal abuse is part of the drill for a poor performing player.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Regardless if you are a girl, boy, transgender, whatever, I can't fathom a situation where harassment, abuse, assault, etc. are considered acceptable and prized. Is part of being a player learning how to assault? Are these the same people who pick on the weaker in high school only to be so surprised and shocked when the weaker bring weapons to school to protect themselves?

[druez]

Well since one of the most successful football coaches around Parcells does this all the time. Ripping players, making them feel small etc. it does work.

[Tigercat]

Theres a difference between telling someone to "Quit sucking" and saying "Hey why don't you suck my dick." And why should females be treated differently? Because harassment of a sexual nature creates fear for women. Why would it create fear? Because some guy who may verbally sexually harass you like that may also go and sexually assault you.

That is the key connection some are missing. No, harassment of a sexual nature does not automatically mean someone will sexually assault you. But that is the fear and unease it creates. If indeed Barnett and other players are making excuses for verbal sexual abuse, they are in a way making excuses for the physical. Cause that is why the verbal should not take place.

[druez]

The kicker and the other "rapes" are in no way related.

St. Johns players were just accused of "rape". It turned out to be a false accusation, where a "call girl" didn't get the money she wanted and then stated they raped her.

If the Colorodo parties were using call girls, I'm a bit confused as to where the rape happens. These parties were wrong also, but that isn't the same as rape.

Rape is wrong no question about that.


We know so little detail on the goings on here, that I don't think any of us can really form an opinion one way or the other. If these cases are settled out of court for $, then maybe that is why you are seeing these ladies come out of the closet.

If a woman is paid to goto a party and have sex with players, that isn't rape its prositiution. That is a different debate all together.

[SirFozzie]

the thing is.. there were "escorts" at these parties. But the players thought others were being provided.. or that they had the RIGHT to do so even if the woman said no..

[Maple Leafs]

If a woman is paid to goto a party and have sex with players, that isn't rape its prositiution. That is a different debate all together.Sorry bud. If she says no, it's rape. Period.

[druez]

We have no idea if anyone said no. To borrow a line from Johnny Cochrin, we are rushing to judgement. We have no idea what happened, what was said or wasn't said.

Think we need to hear all the facts before any of us take a position either way.

[QuikSand]

I don't think any of us can really form an opinion one way or the other.

The kicker and the other "rapes" are in no way related.

It really sounds like someone has already formed his opinion.

[Maple Leafs]

We have no idea if anyone said no.Fine. But can we agree that if she did, we won't trot out the "ah well, she's just a prostitute" defense?

[druez]

It really sounds like someone has already formed his opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcan, or druez, or JasonK, or whatever he calls himself today
I don't think any of us can really form an opinion one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by same guy
The kicker and the other "rapes" are in no way related.

They aren't related and that is a simple fact. The "kickers rape" happened at one of the players houses.

The other rapes are from "recruiting parties".

So how are they related?

[druez]

Fine. But can we agree that if she did, we won't trot out the "ah well, she's just a prostitute" defense?

Hey, I agree. If the woman said no whether she was a prostitute or the girl next door its rape. No questions asked.

But, there are numerious scenerios on both sides that we can all dream up. Till the facts come out in court, we really just don't know.

[NoMyths]

*sigh*

[pjstp20]

Quote:They aren't related and that is a simple fact. The "kickers rape" happened at one of the players houses.

The other rapes are from "recruiting parties".

So how are they related?
What the hell are you trying to prove? Who cares what the protocol of the alleged assults were. The fact is that Colorado football players are being accused of rape. Where it happened and how it happened makes no difference.

[John Galt]

[As always, the following works on the assumption that her allegations are true.]

So . . . if she had brought a civil and/or criminal suit, then people would claim that she is simply out for "revenge" or is a "money grubbing whore"

But, now that she has not brought a suit . . .people claim that she is "weak?"

I guess the lesson here is "don't get raped." Oh, wait--it wasn't her fault.

After finally reading this whole thread, I just wanted to highlight this post as the most insightful and meaningful.

And Taur and druez, words can't express the stupidity you have demonstrated.

[druez]

I really don't understand what is so stupid in saying you should wait till all the facts come out before making a judgement on the issue.

But thats fine if you feel that way.

My reasoning behind the rapes not being related is as follows.

The parties were setup by the "recruiting coaches i.e. team"

The kicker was a one on one incident with a player.

I didn't mean to be offensive. Yes rape is bad. Yes the parties were wrong and bad.

[Tigercat]

My point was that an atmosphere of sexual harrassment and sexual assault is related. And if the FORMER coach of the Buffs and former players are stupid enough not to speak out against harrassment or assault, weither it happened or not, they are idiots. And the coach deserves to be fired.

And what happened to sticking up for one of your players(even if its one you dont like)? If one player claims to be hospitalized after being beaten up by another player, do you go on camera and say "Yea he sucked on the field" ? Just stupid unprofessional behavior.

[tucker342]

The point isn't if she made it up or not... the point is that Barnett said those things when he knew that she had stated she had been raped.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... the point is that Barnett said those things when he knew that she had stated she had been raped.
Do you mean "Barnett said those things" to refer to his comments about her football playing ability?

[dawgfan]

They aren't related and that is a simple fact. The "kickers rape" happened at one of the players houses.

The other rapes are from "recruiting parties".

So how are they related?

I can't believe I have to spell this out for you, but here goes:

ALL of these rape allegations are being made against Colorado football players. At best, it shows that the character of some of the players recruited and signed by the Colorado football program is questionable; at worst, it shows a program that fosters a culture of sexual predation. It doesn't matter one whit that most of the accusations are from recruiting parties and the other was at a player's house.

Teams are in many ways reflections of their coaches; the coaches set an example for behavior by their actions and the way they respond to their players' actions. The coaches are also the ones responsible for recruiting the players to the school, and one has to ask to what extent is character being evaluated when deciding to offer a recruit a scholarship.

I'm not suggesting that a coach can know for sure when he recruits a guy that he'll turn out to be capable of rape, or is an asshole, or has some other socially deficient problem. But when you see what appears to be a pattern of behavior on a particular team, you start to question the culture of the team and the character choices of the coach.

[Glengoyne]

If a woman wants to play on a team with men, why should she be treated any differently then the men?
Because she is a woman, and like it or not no matter what the environment is you can't sexually harass a woman even if she isn't competant. I know that, you know that, and Gary Barnett damn well should have known it.

With regards to the comments by you and others that this kind of thing happens in team sports. Well I'd have to say there is a big difference between Bill Parcells yelling at and demeaning players to motivate them, and players singling out a peer, regardless of sex, and abusing them. Yeah I know it happens. I played football in highschool with a guy that no one respected. Some of the unibrows on the team singled him out until one of the toughest guys on the team stood up for him. That guy had character that I didn't even have, because I had allowed their treatment of him continue even while I didn't approve of it. I am still ashamed of that fact today, and because of that I don't just stand by and let things happen today. Apparently no one on the CU football team had the character or decency to stand up and stop what was going on.

[druez]

The guy who runs hardbodies the agency that supplied the strippers to the parties was just on Scarbourgh country. So was a girl who danced at quite a few of them. They called them recruit parties.

He said they had been supplying strippers to CU for 20 years. Also, the supply strippers to Colorodo State, Houston, Rice and a few others I didn't get a chance to write down. He also went on to state there are also "male strippers" that go to female parties for the softball team etc...

All three people on there tonight one a former coach, stated that their has been no due process during all of this.

The stripper, stated the recruit parties are actually the most tame parties she does. The recruits were respectful at CU. Both the people from hardbodies went on to state that the porn parties is a media hype and its not true. They also said its country wide at all institutions and the only reason it became an issue were the rape accusations.

Intresting show about all this. Karen Russle Trial attorney seems to agree that the rape accusations have nothing to do with strippers at the parties. She went on to state that it isn't fair to single out players of football players when rape is preveliant throughout the whole culture, from frat parties to dormatory rapes, date rapes etc.

I am really interested to see this goto court and for the facts to come out.

On a side note, on thing that seemed to be involved in all of these stories was alcohol.

[AgPete]

If no one has read this yet, it's a good interview on Rick Reilly's impressions of Katie Hnida (the kicker) and how the story came about:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/rick_reilly/02/19/reilly.hnida/index.html

In this week's issue of Sports Illustrated senior writer Rick Reilly wrote about former Colorado kicker Katie Hnida, who told him that she had been verbally abused and molested by teammates, and was raped by one of them. SI.com spoke with Reilly about the reaction to the story, Colorado coach Gary Barnett's recent comments about Hnida and what steps the program must take next.

SI.com: How did your Hnida story come about?

Reilly: I live in Denver, and one night back in 1998 a local high school girl became the first person in history to kick a field goal the same night she was named homecoming queen. I just thought it was cool, so I wrote about her that week for the magazine. You talk about a bubbly kid who had the world on a string; that was Katie Hnida. She was an honor roll student, a state finalist for the forensics team, won best story in the state high school newspaper competition ... and she didn't miss an extra point or a field goal her senior year. She was just on top of world. So I wrote about her, and I've kept in touch with her ever since.

Two times during the last two years she said, "I have something big to tell you," but she decided both times that she couldn't go through with it. Last Tuesday she called me. I flew to Albuquerque to talk to her, and the story she told me was just horrific -- she said teammates cornered her in the hallway and threatened her with sex acts, calling her the C-word. She said that became her nickname on the team. She said she had been groped in the 100-man huddles at the end of practice, that players touched her breasts under her shoulder pads, groped her crotch. She said she had endured every kind of vulgar proposition -- "Why don't you come over to the house and do me?" One time she was sick and a player allegedly said, "Why don't you die already, bitch?" She said was eating lunch another day and a guy came up to her and asked, "Why haven't you quit yet, prom queen?" Just terribly degrading stuff, and then after the season she says she was raped by a teammate whom she had thought was her friend.

SI.com: What was her demeanor as she told you her story?

Reilly: I've noticed that the last two years she hasn't been the same person she was in high school. She's more cautious, her face is just sadder. She's more serious than she was. Throughout the interview, she was pretty strong. She cried a couple of times. A few times I could see her just gulping for a breath of air to give her strength.

SI.com: Do you believe her story?

Reilly: I've been writing about sports and people for 25 years, so I've learned not to believe everything I hear, but I have to say Katie's story was very believable. Her tears, the details, the depth of her recollection were all very believable. When she said she never felt welcome at Colorado, that it felt like her teammates were trying to drive her out ... you can see now, after hearing Gary Barnett talk about it, that it was the case. Barnett said she was "terrible" -- plus she was "a girl!" -- as if being a girl was bad enough? The Buffs have had some bad kickers on their team recently -- were those guys harassed and tormented? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard a coach say.

SI.com: Did you foresee the dramatic chain of events that have taken place since your story was published Tuesday?

Reilly: I knew it would be bad, because there had been so much frustration in Colorado about the fact that nothing had happened to Barnett or Dick Tharp, the CU athletic director, when so much was going on -- allegations of rape, strippers, escort services. This is just another log on the fire. There are now six alleged assaults. If those six are all true -- or if any of those allegations are true -- it's shameful. It makes you ashamed of your school.

SI.com: Did the university take the right course of action in placing Barnett on paid leave following his comments about Hnida?

Reilly: The university wants to fire Barnett. But because of the pending lawsuit [filed by a woman who alleges she was raped at a recruiting party in 2001], CU can't fire him, because he deserves due process from his employer. Plus, it's the university that's being sued. If Colorado officials admit, "Look, we now admit our football program was out of control under this guy," that'd be a sure way to lose that lawsuit pretty quickly. They're stuck, so they found this middle ground. But if he comes back, I'm Eleanor Roosevelt, because I don't think there's any way he's going to.

In interviews I did while working on the story, I asked both Barnett and Tharp flat out about the alleged fifth victim [whose allegations were made public for the first time Wednesday], whom I understood to be part of the football program and who said she was raped in 2001 but never filed a police report. I asked them both if they knew about the allegations, and they both said no. But now, according to the police report, it appears Barnett did know. So if you believe the head coach wasn't aware of any of this, you have to therefore admit you have a head coach who is clueless. I don't think you want either.

SI.com: Is Barnett ultimately to blame for the state of affairs at Colorado, or does it reach beyond him?

Reilly: I think the way we treat women in the culture in this country, especially among athletes, is problematic. I think athletes have trouble hearing the word "no." They don't hear it very often. Instead, they hear "yes," "it's free" and "we love you." That's a problem within the athletic culture. But, like it or not, in college football the head coach is responsible for his players' actions. He has to be accountable. What this head coach has been saying is, "No, I didn't know anything about it." And it think that's stretching believability to a snapping point.

SI.com: What can Colorado do to restore your faith in its football program?

Reilly: I think the program should get a new athletic director. I believe it needs a new head coach. And I think the head coach should be a guy named Dave Logan, who is one of the finest people ever to come out of Colorado. Dave is the play-by-play voice for the Denver Broncos, he was a big star in the state who later played for the Cleveland Browns, and he's a fantastic coach for Denver's JK Mullen High School who always gets his team to the state tournament. He's ready for the job.

Rick Reilly, a senior writer for Sports Illustrated, has been voted National Sportswriter of the Year nine times. His latest book, Who's Your Caddy?, his misadventures caddying for tour pros like Jack Nicklaus and David Duval, hit bookstores in May. He is also the author of the best-selling compliation The Life of Reilly, and the cult classic golf novel, Missing Links, as well as five other books.

[druez]

good read

[WussGawd]

We have no idea if anyone said no. To borrow a line from Johnny Cochrin, we are rushing to judgement. We have no idea what happened, what was said or wasn't said.

Think we need to hear all the facts before any of us take a position either way.

Six women accusing players of rape? As they say, where there's smoke there's fire, and there's enough smoke in Colorado for a bonfire at this point.

[bertogarce]

Regarding the sixth allegation, this what the Denver Post reports this morning

The alleged victim was at a bar, met two African-American men, who may have slipped her a date rape drug. The woman remembers only waking up in her apartment the next morning and noticing blood on her bed. She found an empty condom wrapper under the bed, according to the police report.

The woman told police the two men "could have been football players because they were big guys," according to the 16-page police report. The woman could not pick any of the CU players out of a photo lineup.

So it's come to this now? A woman meets two big, black guys, and therefore she was raped by CU football players. It's reported all over ESPN and Fox Sports that another woman was raped by CU football players because these guys were "big" and African-American.

I'm not saying anyone is lying, I'm not saying these women are making up these stories. I just hope that these matters are investigated fully before anyone rushes to judgment. If there is truth to ANY of these allegations, I would support any and all penalties that are given to our program.