change to keeper training?

[saintjo]

When I started hattrick almost 2 seasons ago, I knew I wanted to either train defending or keeping. I went with defending because it seemed cheaper to start up the program initially. Now that I am about to sell a few descent prospects, I would have the money to change over to keeping if I wanted to.
I am seriously considering it.

the biggest pro I can see are formations dont matter for training. I can run a 3-5-2 or whatever formation fits my team best instead of having to play 5-x-x in friendlies. also there seems to be less keeper trainers than defending trainers.

cons are you only train 2 guys a week (3-4 depending on injuries).

i guess my main concern is profit. i have no idea what the ideal training/selling cycles are for keepers and their profits. right now i buy mid/high-passable defenders and sell at formidable.

any advice? both from fellow defending trainers and keeper trainers?

[GoldenEagle]

Here is the thing. In order to deriously profti from defending training, you have to stick with it LONG term. I am talking 5 to six seasons here. Most defender trainers will never stop training it once they see the benefit it reaps. I think it is the most profitable skill you can train in the long run (I am opening up a can of worms there).

Keeper training, yea it is nice. You can make mad money off of it. However, your money will in bunchers and will never be spread out. If you can get ona 2 year rotation program that would be good. It is is better to start in a U20 year.

[Nyarlahotep]

I like only training two players a week. It gives me a lot of options in league and cup matches that people not training keeper don't have without losing some training. I also like how easy it is to track the progress of keeper trainees. You know at all times (including as soon as you pull or before you buy) how close they are to popping. I've made enough money to be fairly competative.

[saintjo]

out of curiousity, what is your 5-6 season cycle for defenders? and whats the profit range on it.
my current high-passable to formidable takes me 1.5-2 seasons and gives me 800k-1 million per player.

[Vince]

Nyar (or other keeper trainers) - Do you pull keepers consistently? Or only when you need a new trainee? Just curious.

[sterlingice]

Keeper training, yea it is nice. You can make mad money off of it. However, your money will in bunchers and will never be spread out. If you can get ona 2 year rotation program that would be good. It is is better to start in a U20 year.
Unless you like pissing away money on U20 players, I'd say it's better to start on an off-U20 year. That way all of your trainees will be cheaper and your keepers will be trained up as much as U20 keepers just without being U20.

SI

[GoldenEagle]

Unless you like pissing away money on U20 players, I'd say it's better to start on an off-U20 year. That way all of your trainees will be cheaper and your keepers will be trained up as much as U20 keepers just without being U20.

SI

Its not the fact that you could buy a U20 player. It iis the fact that all the powers will be going after U20 capable players which you can come in and snap quailty trainees for less.

I will post my defensive outline after I get back from the gym, saintjo. I may even try the new WYSIWYG editor.

[McSweeny]

well i've trained keeper now for 2 or 3 seasons and i've done very well with it. I've been very competitive (80 NSI and promotion to DIV) and made some decent money.

I was very lucky and pulled a high 18yo solid keeper and decided to go with keeper training. I bought another 18yo high passable dirt cheap and went to work. I sold my passable guy once he hit formidable for 1.4 million. I poured that right back into my team and picked up another cheap 18yo passable.

The way things are now i should be able to survive in my DIV series and at least finish 6th. So i'll be selling of my starting keeper (the youth pull guy) once he hits supernatural and i'll also be selling my backup once he hits outstanding. This should happen in the next few weeks

I'll then take the 10 million or so i'll make from these two sales and get two new uber-ish trainees. Probably an 18yo brilliant and an 18yo formidable and train them for 2 or 3 more years and then start up an high powered midfield program and make a run at DIII and higher (as was outlined in another thread)

The rest of my money that i make will be spent on my defense to make up for selling a supernatural keeper. Probably three excellent or formidable guys across the back and i'll pick up two stud strikers. Of course i'll be expanding my stadium and probably getting a new (solid/solid?) coach


so yes that was long winded, but i think keeper training is great. My defense ratings are awesome. My team is competitive and i'll be making some good money and should be able to start up an awesome middie training program

[terpkristin]

I started out PM training when I got my training program underway, but switched to GK when I started hovering frighteningly close to the -500k mark.

My original goal was to train only until I made a little bit of money, enough to buy better PM trainees. I figured I'd need about 1.5 mil. Right as I was getting ready to sell my keepers and look for better prospects as PM trainees, I pulled Dixon. He has become my stud.

In general I try to pull my keeper trainees, but I only pull them when I need them. Like right now ;)
My training plan for awhile is the following:
train Dixon (soon to be 18 yo outstanding)
train whoever I can pull and if I don't pull anybody worthwhile, let my reserve reserve GK play...he's not that great as a GK, but he has potential to become a coach if I can get him more experience.

I don't plan on training another u20 potential, unless I pull him. That is, I'm not shopping around for him. My feeling is that with GK's popping every 5ish weeks or so (give or take), I can sell off GK trainees once or twice a season, depending on their level at the pull. That should keep me OK in the money (I have about 900k left after buying a formidable scorer earlier today).

For me, it's worked out well. My original plan to switch back to PM (or scoring it seems, based on the newer HT) has been put off indefinitely, since I'll train Dixon at least for the next 2 seasons (until he turns 20).

I like training GK. But I know that overall, I'm in the minority. :)

~tk

[damnMikeBrown]

Hi, I'm Matt. I'm a Keeper Trainer.

I started keeper training my 4th week of HT, and it's been downhill ever since. Sure, I've stopped for maybe a few weeks at a time, but I always switched back. I'd get by with some stamina or set pieces, but come a few weeks, I'd be right back training keeper.

My theory on it at this point, is to maximize the value of the training relative to the sale. That means, I don't train passable/solid/formidable keepers. Ok, to start, you have to, but once you get enough $$ to buy a formidable/outstanding keeper of training age, you should never buy lower. Here's why:
Passable sell for $150k
Solids sell for $300k
Excellent sells for $525k
Note, those are round numbers and may not represent actual market price.
Now after Excellent, the return starts to show itself.
Formidable's at $1.3m
Outstanding $2.3m
The gain from excellent=>formidable is roughly $800k
The gain from formidable=>outstanding is roughly $1m
The gains after outstanding hold true, being roughly $1m per bump.

Note: There are other factors in the price, but as a generalization, this holds true until the very high levels of keeper.

As to my future as a keeper trainer, it's limited to training up a stud that I can keep around for years to come. Once I've got a 7-8 star keeper, I'm out. (that'll be at the end of this coming season)

[Nyarlahotep]

Nyar (or other keeper trainers) - Do you pull keepers consistently? Or only when you need a new trainee? Just curious.

I only pull when I am getting set to sell off a trainee.

[BlueMage]

i've trained keepers since is started, 4-5 seasons.. i can't remember and I am looking forward to NOT training it anymore. The obvious benefits were posted already, but the main detractor I have found is that I can no longer stay competitive money wise. Even if I sell a keeper at outstanding, I'd be lucky to get much over 2 milion, but depending on rotations, it seems to me that training something else would be much more profitable. If you are worried about formations, you aren't tied to training the maximum amount of people. I am switching mid season to striker training, and if i cannot stay competitive, then I will run a 3-5-2 in league and 3-4-3 in friendlies and still train 5. These are all my opinions, but it seems to me like I will not be able to move into III until I have more money, and getting 2 million in a season and a half or so it's cutting it.

[damnMikeBrown]

I'm sort of echoing BlueMage with this. Here's the big hang-up I have with keeper training. Defense being proportionally the least important (you have to go with that assumption), in any given week your improvement in keeper does not equal the competitive advantage that a given week of PM or Scoring would give you. The extra Mid level or Attack level out weighs that defensive level. I'm not talking resale here, I'm talking pure improvement of your teams chance to win.

When I have my titanic+ keeper, I'm out. I want to train in something that with every week, increases my chance to win. I've come to feel that GK training just doesn't do that.

[Mr. Wednesday]

BlueMage, you should be able to sell a Magnificent keeper every season. I cleared $2.5 MM on my first trainee (sold at outstanding), but I only started him at inadequate. My next guy started at mid-solid, will hit outstanding in his next week or two of training, and should be up to magnificent around the end of the season.

[BlueMage]

well, i very well could be wrong since I haven't done any striker training, but it seems like I could sell 1-2 players every year for 2.5-5 mil if I get a good rotation going. Even with the best rotation on keepers, it'd be tough to match that.. that's just a thought. I also agree with mike on how training can affect a team from week to week. Right now I've got a pretty solid team all around, with the exception of scoring, and once I make the switch, I think I can become a pretty tough team if I can get my scorers going by the end of the season. I hear what you're saying though, I just hope I will find striker training both better for my club and more profitable too.