Guess Who Didn't Win the World Cup (aka Congrats, Norway!)

[sterlingice]

<table width="600" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" width="355"> <table width="355" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="2">
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="middle"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td> http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressShirt21.gif
http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressPants16.gif
http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressSocks21.gif
</td></tr></tbody></table></td> <td valign="middle"> Sverige - Norge 2 - 4 http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/ht_live_16.gif (http://195.149.159.158/Common/live.asp?actionType=addMatch&outputType=HTML&matchID=14287675) http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/bookmark_16x16.gif (http://195.149.159.158/Common/bookmarks.asp?action=AddConfirm&BookmarkTypeID=3&ObjectID=14287675)
</td> <td valign="middle"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td> http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressShirt01.gif
http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressPants03.gif
http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/Dresses/dressSocks11.gif
</td></tr></tbody></table></td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>View game: </td> <td>HT Live (http://195.149.159.158/Common/live.asp?actionType=addMatch&MatchID=14287675)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Date: </td> <td>2/29/2004 at 20.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td>MatchID: </td> <td>14287675</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Arena: </td> <td valign="top">Truve FC Arena (http://195.149.159.158/Common/arenaDetails.asp?arenaID=8637)</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Crowd: </td> <td valign="top">66337</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td valign="bottom" align="right"> http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/weather2.gif </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Fairly good weather for football had drawn a crowd of 66337 to Truve FC Arena. The match took place on neutral ground. Sverige tactics involved an interesting 3-5-2 combination. They fielded: Stranddahl - Gröönbratt, Johansson, Fröstad - Persson, Martinsson, Sahlhult, Stensson, Lundhtorp - Månsson, Danielsson.

Norge started off with a 3-5-2 lineup. The following players had been chosen: Angelo - Hatling , Amundsen, Solberg - Svarva, Wass , Knutsen, Hammer, Amundsen - Abelsen, Hammer.

Sveriges Anders Stensson (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=1163532) gave, after 5 minutes, the home team a 1 - 0 lead after an attack coming in from the right. Visitors Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=2777922) was alert on a play coming in from the left, making the score a tie at 1 - 1 in the 6:th minute. Some beautiful plays on the left side of the field resulted in a 20:th minute goal by Lars Lundhtorp (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=937895) for Sverige, putting them ahead 2 - 1. Halftime score was 2 - 1. The fortyfive minutes were dominated by Norge, with an impressive 59 percent possession of the ball.

54 minutes into the game Norge´s Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=2777922) found a gap in the home sides central defense scoring with a long shot, making it 2 - 2. Norge took the lead in the games 65:th minute with 2 - 3 after some elegant plays down the middle. Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=2777922) was the scorer. By then Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=2777922) was a three time scorer - a hat trick! Svend-Harald Amundsen (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=3541586) of Norge was able to make an impressive rush past the sluggish Ulf Martinsson (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=188204), which resulted in the 2 - 4 goal. The structure of the game started to change as Norge decided to pull back and meet their opponents in the defensive zone. Norge held the ball, with a clear 59 percent possession rate.

The most dominating Sverige player was without a doubt Markus Stranddahl (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=2416188). However, Lars Lundhtorp (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=937895) made a disastrous appearance. The most dominating Norge player was without a doubt Jonas Angelo (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=4663278). Jan Ole Solberg (http://195.149.159.158/Common/PlayerDetails.asp?playerID=3581327) on the other hand, had a terrible day. The match ends 2 - 4.


</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td width="40">
</td> <td valign="top" width="229"> <table width="229" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/filler.gif</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1"> <table bgcolor="#267f30" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/filler.gif</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="rub3" valign="top" align="left" colspan="1">HIGHLIGHTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td>http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/filler.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1">
<table width="229" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td width="229"> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>1 - 0</td> <td>Anders Stensson (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=1163532) (5)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>1 - 1</td> <td>Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=2777922) (6)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2 - 1</td> <td>Lars Lundhtorp (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=937895) (20)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2 - 2</td> <td>Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=2777922) (54)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2 - 3</td> <td>Karsten Hammer (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=2777922) (65)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2 - 4</td> <td>Svend-Harald Amundsen (http://195.149.159.158/Common/playerDetails.asp?actionType=view&playerID=3541586) (78)</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> </table>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1"> <table bgcolor="#267f30" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/filler.gif</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="rub3" valign="top" align="left" colspan="1">RATING</td> </tr> <tr> <td>http://195.149.159.158/Common/images/filler.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1">
<table width="229" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td width="229"> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1"> Sverige (http://195.149.159.158/Common/NationalTeamDetails.asp?teamID=3000)
Player rating and Team formation (http://195.149.159.158/Common/matchLineup.asp?matchID=14287675&teamID=3000)
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top">Team Attitude:</td> <td valign="top">(Hidden)</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Tactic:</td> <td valign="top">Normal</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Tactic skill:</td> <td valign="top">(Unlimited)</td> </tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Midfield:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Right Side Defence:</td> <td valign="top">utopian</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Central Defence:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Left Side Defence:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Right Side Attack:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Central Attack:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Left Side Attack:</td> <td valign="top">world class</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="1"> Norge (http://195.149.159.158/Common/NationalTeamDetails.asp?teamID=3008)
Player rating and Team formation (http://195.149.159.158/Common/matchLineup.asp?matchID=14287675&teamID=3008)
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top">Team Attitude:</td> <td valign="top">(Hidden)</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Tactic:</td> <td valign="top">Normal</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Tactic skill:</td> <td valign="top">(Unlimited)</td> </tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Midfield:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Right Side Defence:</td> <td valign="top">brilliant</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Central Defence:</td> <td valign="top">outstanding</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Left Side Defence:</td> <td valign="top">outstanding</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Right Side Attack:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Central Attack:</td> <td valign="top">divine</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">Left Side Attack:</td> <td valign="top">magnificent</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table>

[GoldenEagle]

Woot! Woot!

[finkenst]

look at those ratings...

Sweden was robbed!

[sterlingice]

Looking at their match orders, they played two central defenders and a wingback all offensive. However, they are all middies on their respective teams. Not only that, but played all of the middies offensive except a TM winger. So, they completely overloaded their midfield, hence the 59% possession, left their defense to the keeper, and that was that. Seems really cheap and exposes the problem of the midfield and offense heavy engine, but it's within the rules.

SI

[Vikas]

It shows that you dont need defense if you have midfield and offense power.
Let this be a lesson for defense trainers. :P

[GoldenEagle]

It shows that you dont need defense if you have midfield and offense power.
Let this be a lesson for defense trainers. :P
True. But I am already in too much to switch from the evil side. :)

[sterlingice]

It shows that you dont need defense if you have midfield and offense power.
Let this be a lesson for defense trainers. :P
While, as a prominent run-and-shooter, I love more offense. The problem comes in that it really unbalances the game. Defender trainees might as well just pack their bags as defenders, once the sure way to cash provided you had more patience than the rest of us, are now worthless, replaced by having a good keeper.

SI

[Havok]

dam im happy sweden lost!!..... but looking at those match ratings it is kinda disturbing. Hopfully the HT gods will take note.

[DukeRulesMAB]

A note on the ratings...

They are kind of misleading. All of those divines look the same. They are not.

For Norway to have 59% possession against Sweden, they had to have at least a 26 rated midfield (divine + 6 more levels). Odds are, with Sweden being Sweden and having MOTS'd, Sweden did not have just a "regular" divine, so that means Norway's rating would have to be even higher.

Same goes for the other divines, though I suspect in those cases Sweden had most of the higher divines, except for maybe the wing attack.

[BElmes]

When Sweden played Canada, we calculated that our Divine would be divine+10 give or take a couple with the MOTS. They STILL had 62% on us.

That's why I doubt Sweden's performance against the Norwegians here... didn't seem like they did the best they could.

[TargetPractice6]

If Canada's midfield really was divine+10, Sweden would need a divine+28 to get that kind of possession.

[BElmes]

Yeah, that's what we were thinking.

But that's not necessarily true. The system might not work that way, though it seems like it's pretty realistic. Sweden playing 3-5-2 with 2 TMW's, assuming all five mids were divine (or into divine), they could have done it.

There's not much room for error in the guess at our midfield. Our ratings when we lost that game 4-0 were probably one of the best ever lineups played in WC history, yet we were blown out of the water. That's why I still am doubting Sweden's performance.

[Hobbes-]

you'd think they could just create another 30 levels of shit past divine and that would solve that problem

[sterlingice]

you'd think they could just create another 30 levels of shit past divine and that would solve that problem
Seems a bit of limited use which would hurt processing time. If a system has to check double the levels of skill, that's going to take some time. Not only that, but outside of the World Cup games, how many players or game ratings go more than a couple of levels above divine?

Then again, I don't have a great idea to solve the problem. Maybe something like "every level above outstanding is split in two" (ie what are outstanding and brilliant now are called something like outstanding- and oustanding+ while magnificent and world class are now brilliant- and brilliant+) when viewed. That way, you gain an extra 10 levels. How do you make something that sounds better than divine or extra terrestrial, tho (hence the +/- idea).

SI

[TargetPractice6]

They could just tell us divine+n where n is how many levels beyond divine it is. I know they don't want to use numbers, but I believe it would be best for the game if they did in this instance.

[BElmes]

As long as "n" stays an integer it wouldn't mess with anything really, other than the lack of words. The words are supposed to be something new for the newbies right? But when is a newbie gonna get a divine+n anyways?

I don't see the +n deterring any old-time users - anyone who's played long enough to have someone divine won't mind seeing divine+n for a little accuracy.

'Tis a good argument. :)

My suggestion was that they just include some new standard denominations (superb, colossal, great, etc.), and bump the other ones back. But, AFTER 20, which would be something like titanic, you would get to ranges. Something like 21-25 as "extra-terrestrial", 26-30 as "mythical", 31-35 "magical", 36-40 "utopian", and >40 "divine". Odds are we won't see divines+ often. But at least this way there is still the guessing at the higher levels. It would be interesting too, because at the highest level of most national team sports, it's impossible to tell by the eye which teams are clearly better in certain regards.

Either would be good, my guess is that HT would like my idea better (who knows, maybe it's been said somewhere before, but no one told me it), but in terms of accuracy, divine+n would be a lot easier to understand.