When does one feel like an adult?

[Eaglesfan27]

First a little background, my grandfather passed away late yesterday and I just found about it today. According to Jewish custom, I'm supposed to arrange his funeral for Thursday morning. Unfortunately (and fortunately in some respects although these are hard to see at the moment), I was raised Catholic and then Charismatic Christian and remember very few of the Jewish traditions my grandfather attempted to instill in me. I'm terribly afraid I'm going to botch something important. My father never wanted me to learn any of the Jewish traditions. My father and I are now estranged, and my father was estranged from my grandfather and I don't know if he will be at the services or not. What I do know is my Grandfather's attorney has successfully contacted me this morning to tell me about a few of the things I must do for the services.

In any case, I've been running around like the proverbial chicken with its head cut off, trying to arrange some details of the service from 2200 miles or so away as my family is still located in New Jersey. Also, I've been calling secretaries, having them contact patient's and trying to remember to inform all of my jobs (I have 3 part time and 1 full time gigs) as well as wrap up a bunch of little things so that the docs covering for me have as little to do as possible while I'm out of town for the next few days. Of course, I also had to arrange a flight (a whopping 750$) as well as other travel details. Fortunately, I have my wife who has been very helpful with some of these details.

So, now I find myself wondering when do people feel like they have finally grown up. It certainly wasn't when I left for college, as I felt like a scared, excited kid who was going to have the adventure of a lifetime. Even entering medical school, I still felt like a little kid living in a grown-ups world. I took care of my responsibilities, but I always clowned around with friends, played video games, etc. Even when I graduated medical school and did my residency, I felt like there was a giant dichotomy in my life still prevalent. There was the "childish" me who played video games whenever I had free time, and the "serious" side who saw patients for portions of the day.

I feel like I'm finally growing up at the age of 29 with this event. I'm not explaining this well, cause I'm sure I'll continual to play games and such. It's not so much my actions, but my mindset in the past that made me feel like a kid in a grown-up world. I feel that has changed on this day. I've seen relatives die and have attended their funeral services, but I've never been the primary person responsible for arranging the services. Of course, my mom is very helpful and I'm very gracious for that as I make these preparations, but it is different knowing I'm the primary person. Then after the funeral, I'll presumably (I could be wrong he could give it to charity) be the one inheriting his house and having to go through all of his possessions and deciding what to do with his house, his car, and an astonishing collection of his things. He was a musician, a very very talented musician. He made a decent amount of money as a musician before he met my grandmother and left music because she was afraid the stress of being in a band would strain their marriage. It crushed his spirit some when she died 3 years ago secondary to bone cancer after 52 years of marriage. My memories of them together, gave me a model for my own successful marriage. They loved each other so much, and they were so kind and loving with each other. After he gave up his career in music, he was a factory worker for 33 years before an accident left him disabled with a severe compound leg fracture. More then that, he was a good man. A man of honor who demanded respect from people and gave people respect. He was a surrogate father to me who tried to teach me so much but was limited by factors beyond his control. How do I decide what to do with his things? His old pipe organ? His guitar collection? His wine collection? He lived 86 good years and I don't know how I will begin to sort through that.

I'm not sure I know what I'm really trying to say. Thanks for letting me ramble. By the way, I'll be likely without internet service from tomorrow afternoon (when my flight leaves) through late Sunday night.

[Maple Leafs]

First of all, my condolenses on your loss.

Second, thanks for sharing some of your memories about your grandfather. I enjoy reading that kind of thing. I'm your age, and I can't shake the feeling that the older generations had it much tougher than we do, and how as a result they lead lives that were not necessarily better, but somehow... I don't know, more noble?

Finally, in answer to your question: I have no idea. I'm not there yet. Being married and owning a home certainly produces some grownup moments, but not enough that I really feel like a full-fledged adult. I remember signing the papers at the bank for my mortgage and thinking "You're giving me how much? Are you people crazy?" The next big life step will be having kids, and the idea of some goof like me being responsible for another life is the source of much bemusement, and horror.

[Hurst2112]

You never really grow up, in my opinion.

I feel that being an "adult" is a matter of being wise and responsible. There isn't any law that says you have to stop acting "child-like" in order to be an adult. I pride myself on the fact that I can spend hours playing with my nephews or cousins. I relish in the fact that I get turned on more by coming here and talking about video games, then I do sitting around my in laws, talking about business and things of that nature. What would you be like if you didn't still have a tinge of your younger self in you? I don't think any of us would be who we are. I know people that don't. Generally, those are the people that exude personalities that don't jive with mine, or my wife's. I think it's great that people have the ability to remember their childhood.

With that being said, I can't even begin to imagine what you are going throgh. For that, you have my sympathy. It must be very hard to be in your position both physically and (dare I say) spiritually. I would hope that though you now feel that you have grown up, your grandfather would not want you to forget what made you, you.

I hope THIS makes sense.

Be safe on your journey back home.

[digamma]

My condolences.

[Franklinnoble]

I assume he has a will and/or living trust?

If not, there are going to be problems... just speaking from experience. My father-in-law died in January, and the probate process is probably the most brutal and ugly thing I've ever seen in my life.

[JeeberD]

I think this is the wrong board to be asking that sort of question...

[Castlerock]

First of all, I am very sorry for your loss. And thanks for sharing your memories of your grandfather. He sounds like a wonderful man.

As far as the airfare goes, contact the airline. Most carriers have a bereavement fare that I imagine you would be eligible for. They will want to know the name of the funeral home so they can verify.

[Chief Rum]

Let me add my condolences. I came in preared to make an off-the-cuff reemark, because the title of the thread seemed to lend itself to such a remark, but obviously, this is a bit more serious. I hope everything goes well with your plans.

As for being an adult, I personally think the real concept of "adult" as we visualize it is as we learned it as kids: "not us" and "more like mom and dad."

In other words, it's very hard to overcome that impression locked into us when we are most definitely not adults. We are taught as kids (most of us, I think) that adults are mature, responsible people that are ona pedestal: our "elders" as the saying goes. I think that even after we learn by our adolescent years (at the latest) that adults tend to be just as foolhardy and stupid and silly and everything as the rest of us, we still find it difficult to equate ourselves with adulthood because it is hard to overcome the ingrained sense that adults are better than us, and it would be presumptious to assume we had arisen to that level of maturity.

I suspect we all become adults when we are full-fledged self-supporting individuals of a certain maturity, both physical and mental. We are psychologically predisposed not to acknowledge it (feeling we aren't good enough, or aren't there yet), but I will bet that anyone 10 and under sees us and automatically thinks we are "adults". How's that for ironic?

CR

[Eaglesfan27]

Thank you for the responses. Castlerock, I asked the airline (there aren't many airlines which fly into Atlantic City and for a variety of reasons I want to do so - namely, I've found myself preoccupied while driving and don't feel like driving in Philly while not fully attentive.) and they are giving me the discount for a bereavement fare. 750 doesn't seem like much of a discount, but whatever, I'm not going to fight that issue right now.

Jeeber D - Perhaps, this wasn't the best board to ask this question, but this is the place where I felt safe letting my guard down a little and venting or whatever I'm doing.


Franklinnoble - Yes, he had a will. About 8 months ago, my father called me out of the blue. He said some of the most hateful things I've ever heard in my life. I won't even begin to repeat them. He went on a tirade for about 30 minutes in which I couldn't get in a word edgewise. I don't even know why I listened, but I did. The end of the tirade was him telling me he had just been kicked out of the house by my grandfather (he had been freeboating with him for 8 years.) My grandfather did this because my father had been emotionally abusing him. I should have done something to stop this, but I didn't know it was occurring. In any case, my father went on to tell me (after 30 minutes of hate spewing) that he knew I had colluded and convinced my grandfather to take him out of the will and make me the only beneficiary. I had never discussed my grandfather's will with my grandfather or anyone else, and this came as a total shock to me. He then told me he was going to kill himself if I didn't convince my grandfather to take him back into the home. I refused to do anything of the sort, and my father hung up. I haven't talked to him since. Anyway, from this conversation I assume there is a will.

Digamma, Hurst, Mapleleafs - thank you for your responses.

The wierd thing now.. I don't know what to do with myself for the next few hours. My wife has finished all of my laundry and packed my bag for me (she can't get off work and school to go - well she could, but I convinced her not to do so for me.) My wife is now at work and I just don't know what to do. Somehow, playing games doesn't seem the right thing to do. I can't concentrate on any of my extra work such as the paper I was working on writing. Everything I can do from here is done, and now I just have to wait for the flight tomorrow afternoon.

[WussGawd]

Eagles...I'm going to run this past my wife when I get home (she's Jewish, I'm Protestant). I'll see if she can help with any of the Jewish tradition end of things.

Get back to you on this in about 2-3 hours.

[Eaglesfan27]

By the way, if I may, I want to share one more short memory. As I mentioned my grandfather was a wonderful musician. He was really good with a lot of instruments including his voice. I sort of think this is part of the subliminal reason I started dating a voice major in college whom I later married. But I digress, he tried to teach me the piano at 4. I was horrible. He tried again at 6, and I was still horrible. He tried teaching me other instruments such as the guitar and the accordian (he was an excellent accordian player - something of a lost art.) I couldn't play any of these instruments. I remember being disappointed as I was a little kid who felt he was really letting his grandfather down by my inability to play any instrument. I remember trying a large variety of instruments including the flute and clarinet with no ability in any of them as I now realize I'm fairly tone deaf. But again I digress, my grandfather realizes I'm a disappointed little 6 year old boy, so he finally finds an instrument I can play - the triangle. :)

I also remember him teaching me how to pitch a horseshoe. He was great at horseshoes before he completely lost his sight (about 10 years ago.) I also remember him teaching me how to throw a good curveball when I was 15 (and not a day before no matter how much I asked him to teach it to me.)

PS - Thanks for the comments CR. Also, big thanks in advance for any advice Wussgawd or anyone else can me regarding various Jewish customs. I'm terrible at Hebrew and I really don't remember hardly any words I learned when I was little (which I never learned many due to my father's wishes.) I'll definitely check this thread again in a few hours Wussgawd to see any advice you might be able to give from your wife.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

To me, the question of when you become an adult is answered best as it is when you realize you don't know it all. Like you said, it wasn't when you went to college, you likely were an idiot who knew no wrong. When you start to say "Holy shit, how did my parents do this?" You're on your way. When you realize that you don't know everything, but you have to take the initiative to do it anyway (with help, if you can get it) It's a complicated matter, but realizing that you don't have a clue, but your kids look to you like you do (just as you now realize you did with your parents) Confused yet? Congradulations! You're a grown up...

[Noop]

When people start calling you sir you are a adult...

[MacroGuru]

As to when I feel I became an "adult" was when my daughter was born. I was sitting there, rocking her in the nursery realizing, I would have to provide for this little person for the rest of my life (Regardless of what people say, Families ARE Forever), that I would have to teach her, raise her, and show her things. It was at this point in time, I also decided I would not grow up. My wife jokes she has 3 kids now, as I am a great big one, I will sit and play the xbox all day with my kids. Read to them, being the story teller, and also wrestle, rough house, and just generally play with them.

Being an Adult is great, but being a Really Big CHILD, is even better!

[Passacaglia]

Again, condolences on your loss. If you have any questions about the funeral, I'd be happy to help if I can. I'm sure no one will be too concerned with how everything goes. I'm with you about feeling like an adult. I'm still a student now, but even when I had a full-time job, I didn't much feel like an adult. I keep thinking it might happen when I finish school and start teaching, but part of me thinks I'll just be a man-child forever. I figure it's part of my personality; I take pretty much everything lightly, I make serious situations into jokes, and am for the most part irresponsible. I can definitely see an event like that making you feel 'adult', and this event may be happening for you even faster since it involves a grandparent instead of a parent. I agree about the accordion -- one of my favorite musicians, Buckwheat Zydeco, plays it. Good good stuff. Anyway, good luck with the funeral, and dealing with all the situations involved.

[Leonidas]

I started feeling like an adult when my second son was born (I was 35). Up to that point I still held a glimmer of hope my wife and I could return to some semblance of a social life again when our first son got a little older. When number two was born it was time to throw in the towel and realize we were full time parents and that previous life had passed us by.

Then another interesting milestone passed me by in the last six months. Something I've never heard specifically discussed. I had passed from the point of being the young up and comer in my career to a trusted veteran. It happened when I got in charge of the kind of office I used to be subordinate in. Now I have the people I once was a part of looking to me for all the answers. I went from the work phase of potential to the work phase of production. I could see the options of my end game for my career dwindle as that light called potential was turned down a bit.

[WussGawd]

So, now I find myself wondering when do people feel like they have finally grown up. It certainly wasn't when I left for college, as I felt like a scared, excited kid who was going to have the adventure of a lifetime. Even entering medical school, I still felt like a little kid living in a grown-ups world. I took care of my responsibilities, but I always clowned around with friends, played video games, etc. Even when I graduated medical school and did my residency, I felt like there was a giant dichotomy in my life still prevalent. There was the "childish" me who played video games whenever I had free time, and the "serious" side who saw patients for portions of the day.

I feel like I'm finally growing up at the age of 29 with this event. I'm not explaining this well, cause I'm sure I'll continual to play games and such. It's not so much my actions, but my mindset in the past that made me feel like a kid in a grown-up world. I feel that has changed on this day. I've seen relatives die and have attended their funeral services, but I've never been the primary person responsible for arranging the services. Of course, my mom is very helpful and I'm very gracious for that as I make these preparations, but it is different knowing I'm the primary person. Then after the funeral, I'll presumably (I could be wrong he could give it to charity) be the one inheriting his house and having to go through all of his possessions and deciding what to do with his house, his car, and an astonishing collection of his things. He was a musician, a very very talented musician. He made a decent amount of money as a musician before he met my grandmother and left music because she was afraid the stress of being in a band would strain their marriage. It crushed his spirit some when she died 3 years ago secondary to bone cancer after 52 years of marriage. My memories of them together, gave me a model for my own successful marriage. They loved each other so much, and they were so kind and loving with each other. After he gave up his career in music, he was a factory worker for 33 years before an accident left him disabled with a severe compound leg fracture. More then that, he was a good man. A man of honor who demanded respect from people and gave people respect. He was a surrogate father to me who tried to teach me so much but was limited by factors beyond his control. How do I decide what to do with his things? His old pipe organ? His guitar collection? His wine collection? He lived 86 good years and I don't know how I will begin to sort through that.

I believe that we grow up every day. Wise people never stop learning and growing. I know that I'm wiser now than I was 5 years ago, and I was wiser then than a decade before.

However, with that being said, I think that some life events impact our view of the world greater than others. For me, the death of my dad at age 18 was one such event. Meeting my wife at age 22 was another (the biggest, really). Having two kids more recently was another. Other events have similarly touched me.

I really think that in the final analysis, the difference between being an adult and being a child for me has been self-awareness, particularly emotionally. I honestly don't believe that happened for me until the last 5 or 6 years, and I went through every kind of hell (personally and professionally) before I got that.

Obviously, you are an adult. You took the responsibility to go to medical school, make it through the hell of internship, work one of the most important jobs in America (caring for your fellow human beings), and took the bull by the horns in doing what you have over the last day or two. You will ultimately emerge stronger from this than you can imagine.

However, in your effort to be "grown up", I encourage you to not ever totally grow up. Don't ever lose that childlike sense of fun. Don't ever lose that. I know people my age (39) who have carved out an unhappy life for themselves. They work too hard, and play too little. They are strangers to their own children, sometimes their wives or husbands (or sadly, in this age, ex-spouses). Go to ballgames with your buddies (and when your kids are old enough, them too), play your games (Halo with my 10 & 8 year old boys is a blast), treasure your wife (she sounds like a good person), and have fun. Ultimately, the fun times are what makes life worth living.

Your grandfather sounds like he was a pretty good man. If it is something that is important to you or that you'd like to explore, I encourage you to explore your Jewish roots. Although I still consider myself Christian, I find the commonality in Jewish ceremonies and practices with that of Christianity fascinating, and I've developed a good deal of respect for Judaism.

I'm going to point this thread out to the wife as well (she's running an errand I hadn't anticipated). I'll let you know her thoughts. She lost her mother about three months ago, and has spent a lot of time sorting out all of it, estate matters, services, getting the house ready to sell, etc.

[WussGawd]

By the way, if I may, I want to share one more short memory. As I mentioned my grandfather was a wonderful musician. He was really good with a lot of instruments including his voice. I sort of think this is part of the subliminal reason I started dating a voice major in college whom I later married. But I digress, he tried to teach me the piano at 4. I was horrible. He tried again at 6, and I was still horrible. He tried teaching me other instruments such as the guitar and the accordian (he was an excellent accordian player - something of a lost art.) I couldn't play any of these instruments. I remember being disappointed as I was a little kid who felt he was really letting his grandfather down by my inability to play any instrument. I remember trying a large variety of instruments including the flute and clarinet with no ability in any of them as I now realize I'm fairly tone deaf. But again I digress, my grandfather realizes I'm a disappointed little 6 year old boy, so he finally finds an instrument I can play - the triangle. :)

I also remember him teaching me how to pitch a horseshoe. He was great at horseshoes before he completely lost his sight (about 10 years ago.) I also remember him teaching me how to throw a good curveball when I was 15 (and not a day before no matter how much I asked him to teach it to me.)

PS - Thanks for the comments CR. Also, big thanks in advance for any advice Wussgawd or anyone else can me regarding various Jewish customs. I'm terrible at Hebrew and I really don't remember hardly any words I learned when I was little (which I never learned many due to my father's wishes.) I'll definitely check this thread again in a few hours Wussgawd to see any advice you might be able to give from your wife.

Man...sorry I missed this earlier. He definitely sounds like a neat, neat guy. I'm sorry for your loss, Eagles. Didn't say that earlier, and I should have. :(

One other thing. Don't let anyone lead you to believe that there's a right way or wrong way to grieve, or to honor a loved one. There is no statute of limitations on honoring loved ones you've lost, and there is no wrong way to honor those you care for that are no longer with you. My father passed away not quite 22 years ago, and I still occasionally get misty eyed when I remember things we did when I was growing up, or when I talk about him. It sounds like a cliche, but you will always remember him, and you will always care for him.

[Anthony]

I'm married and own my own place. i still feel young - i'm 26 and i feel about 4-5 years younger. i don't refer to myself as "still feeling like a kid". kids have curfews and homework. i can do whatever i want. i just feel like i'm entering the last year of college or am a year out of it. i say i have a young spirit. i've been putting on weight over the years and the hair is starting to thin, signs of growing up, but hey, i'm in my mid-20's, i don't exactly need a cane. yet, like you, i still play video games and get drunk with my friends (though not as much, the only other married one in our group lives out of state). i'm still in touch with the things i did even 10 years ago.

it's just that i see the inevitable on the horizon, whereas when you're a teen your 30's and 40's are a world away. i guess i'm reaching that age where i can see the next phase of my life (the dreaded adulthood) more clearly.

i think this is the biggest reason why i don't want to have kids for another 5 or 6 years. there will be a time when i'm ready, but i guess now is not the time. deep down i feel once i have a child there is no way i can even remotely consider myself "young" and "free". perhaps i'm trying to delay the ultimate task of being an adult - raising a child. for now i can still be silly and do whatever i want whenever i want (along with my wife). we're having such a great time now i just don't want this cozy little time in our lives to end too soon, the time when it's just the two of us and the possibilities are still endless.

the wrong thing to think is that your feelings are unique or that you're irresponsible. adulthood is marked by times like you're going through. you should feel proud that your grandfather felt your were man enough to handle such a big responsibility.

don't feel bad about getting older and growing into an adult - i hear it happens to a lot of people.

[WussGawd]

Eagles...my wife PM'ed you.

[Eaglesfan27]

I got her PM's. Thanks again to everyone who commented. Cya all in a few days.

[FrogMan]

Doc, my condolences go to you and yours. You are in my thoughts.

As to your question about when you "become" a grown up, I don't know. I thought I had become one when our first son was born, nearly seven years ago, but looking back on it, I had gone back to being a big kid, right up until our second son was born about a month and a half ago. I guess you are as young as you see yourself. I'm 33 and for now, caring for an 8 weeks old infant, I feel like a complete grown up, no life of my own, living for the kiddo 24/7 (not complaining here, in fact I enjoy holding him in my arms trememndously, those of you with young kids must know what I mean). Then, I know that when he'll have grown a little, say 2-3 years in the future, I'll be back to enjoying computer games in my own selfish way. Not that I won't be there for him, but I'm sure I'll find ways to be a big kid again... I guess some of us will always be child. Don't know if I'm expressing my thoughts correctly, just how I feel...

FM

[Eaglesfan27]

Well, I'm here at my friend's house alone, and a lot has happened today that I feel I need feedback on, advice on, etc. I question the sanity of even posting this sort of information/question on a message board as someone questioned why people ask for advice on message boards not so long ago. I think it's partially the relative anonymity is nice. I also think it is because I find a wide diverse group of individuals here, who appear to be intelligent and whose opinion I respect. Also, the worst thing that can happen by me posting this here is that people whom I don't know in person will think less of me. I can live with that possibility. Let me preface this by saying this post is going to be a bummer in some ways, although I will add a few light moments right now: I just discovered a friend of mine who was a few years younger then me, named Darian Barnes who used to play football with the older kids on the streets of NJ is now on a pro roster! He made it to the Tampa Bay Bucaneers last year as a backup fullback and actually got a little playing time. I got to talk to him today and he is still the same nice guy I remember 10-18 years ago. He is just a LOT bigger. I remember throwing a lot of touchdown passes to him when he was only 9-10, because he was so fast and I could throw the ball farther then any other 13 year old in the neighborhood. The guy had blazing speed for his age and stature. The guy is ultra buff now. I had last seen him about 5-6 years ago, and he had grown a lot then when he was 17-18. Anyway, now that I got through a moment of lightness, I need to ask some questions that I hope might give me some advice I find useful.

Today, the services went well despite my extremely mangled pronounciation of the mourner's prayer in Hebrew. The Rabbi was very kind and understanding and the surprisingly large crowd (I was shocked because I thought most of his friends had previously passed away with him being 86) were very understanding of my sheepishly poor pronounciation. Although, I was happy with my speech even though I never formally wrote it out, but rather just spoke from the heart. The problem is my father was there. I guess I need to give you more background about my father and myself if I'm going to ask for any advice here. In retrospect, perhaps I should have made this its own thread, but I don't know and so I didn't.

My father and my mother divorced when I was 2 years old because he was physically abusive towards her. He kicked her in the stomach when I was 2 and likely contributed to the still born baby that she later had. I'm an only child, and my mother never dated again. He crushed her trust of men. I remember trying to get her to get counseling growing up, but those attempts were unsuccessful. My father retained visitation rights to see me and he saw me every other weekend. I hated those visits and I felt like I hated him. He was emotionally abusive to me as a child and occasionally physically abusive. I was very rageful as a teenager as a result, but I directed my rage towards succeeding at athletics, academics, whatever just to prove him wrong. Once, I got into medical school I sought counseling, because I decided I couldn't be a good doctor if I was going to continue to just bury my anger and feelings about my father. I decided I had to deal with them. This likely was a pivotal point from my changing career plans of being a pediatrician to being a psychiatrist. I truly forgave him, or at least thought I did when I was 25 and graduating medical school. I had undergone a few years of therapy, and I felt more at peace. I invited him to my graduation (he was not invited to my HS or college graduation - although he came to my HS graduation uninvited.) So, I had forgiven him and we had an okay relationship for the next three years, until my grandfather told me that my father was emotionally and occasionally physically abusive to him and that he could not put up with it anymore and he was kicking him out of the house (he had been freeloading off of my grandfather for several years according to him.) The next day my father, as I previously mentioned called me with a long hate filled telephone call in which he accused me of all kinds of things that I had never done and told me he was going to go kill himself. Remember, I'm a psychiatrist at this point, but I didn't really respond to his threat. I ignored his suicidal statement which prompted him to hang up.

Now, fast forward to today, my father shows up at the funeral. He looks ill.. really ill. I've seen enough patients with cancer during my clinical years of medical school to say he is likely suffering with cancer. He used to be a big man like me. Now, he looks like he is 5'10 and only about 135-140 pounds. He looks gaunt. He looks frail. Not at all like the scary guy I remember growing up. The rabbi has me give the speech about my grandfather, but he also invites others to speak about him. My father says nothing.

After the service, the lawyer who will be the executor (sp?) of the state gathers my father and myself together. He states that my grandfather changed his will back to the same will that he and my grandmother created in 1996 (which I'm certain will have my father getting the house and most of the possessions - which I'm fine with for one exception which I will get to in a moment) just a few weeks before he died. He states that my grandfather conveyed to him (he was a friend as well as the family lawyer) that he wanted to reconcile with my father and he wanted us to reconcile our differences of the past year. My grandfather never knew of the abuse that I or my mother suffered earlier as far as I know.

So, I'm at a funeral service basically being told my grandfather's last wish was for me and my father to reconcile. This hit me like a ton of bricks. I had been civil, but curt throughout the preliminaries when I had to interact with my father. I hang around after that point as everyone disperses (again I'm amazed at the outflowing of people who are elderly yet still managed to travel the 50 miles or so for the services) and wait to see if he wants to go out to lunch after we light the shiva candle. I remember my father, grandfather, and me going out to lunch when my grandmother passed away. He doesn't speak and neither do I. We stand there awkwardly for about 30 seconds and then we both leave. Now, I'm feeling like a complete jackass because at least for the moment I haven't honored my grandfather's last wishes. At the same time, I feel like my grandfather would understand if he knew what my father put me and my mom through. I don't know if I should try to reconcile or not?

Also there is the issue of the house. If he gets the house, and all that it is in it in some way I will be relieved because I won't have to go through everything that is in it. However, I would want a few small pictures in it that were of my grandfather from his early days as well as a few pictures of my grandmother. Will I be able to get those? The bigger issue with the house is that my grandfather actually had this house built and it was his pride and joy. He loved that house, and repeatedly refused to move out of it to a nursing home even though he needed 24 hour care because he didn't want the house to be sold (which many nursing homes require.) The problem is my father just married his 5th wive, right after my grandfather kicked him out of the house. Well, actually he had his 5th marriage, it was a remarriage to his 4th wife. I'm afraid he will die and since she is his wife, she will get the house. I doubt my grandfather wanted the house to leave the family (and he was never particularly fond of the 4th wife.) Yet, he was sharp and smart so I assume he knew what he was doing.

So, tomorrow I'm supposed to meet with the lawyer (I don't think the official reading of the will is until next week) but he wants to meet with me before I leave town. Oh yeah, he really hit me in the gut when during the service he spoke of my grandfather's forgiving nature and how we should all strive to be as forgiving. Then, with the talk about my grandfather wanting the family to reconcile, I really feel like a heel for not saying something to my father right then.

So, I'm at my friend's house to take a nap (before we go out to dinner in about 45 minutes) because my mom thought I needed it, but I cannot sleep. My friend has internet access and doesn't mind me using it (I'm staying with him this whole weekend.) He has to work until midnight. So, I find myself taking the chance to write something that I never thought I would write on the internet because I'm hoping someone might say something that resonates within me and I might find useful. I know this is a disjointed post with poor grammar, but please forgive these flaws (then again that isn't so different from many of my posts ;) )

[AgPete]

Sounds like you're really crushed with all of this. :( I actually believe in what that previous poster mentioned, that all of this is best left for family and friends, but I understand the comfort of anonymous therapy. I've tried it myself on the internet and been helped or burnt.

If your pops abused you as a kid like you say, I don't know what to say, that stuff is hard to forgive. :( I'm about to break one of my internet rules but I'll admit that I had a father like that. We never reconciled either. I did have a chance to be at his death bed. I did forgive him then for everything he did and I think most people would tell you that's the healthy thing to do. I understand using the rage from your childhood as motivation to succeed in life but it ends up hurting you in the end.

As for the probate, I don't know what to say. My grandmother (the last grandparent) died recently and she was the mother of the father I just mentioned. She always acted naieve about his actions too, just like your grandfather, but strangely enough, she gave me and my siblings a large portion of her inheritance. She had four children but for some reason, she distributed the inheritance among her children and her grandchildren of the troubled son instead of just among the children. This means that 10+ grandchildren were left out of the will. You mentioned that your grandfather's lawyer talked in the funeral and mentioned his forgiving nature. I'm shocked that the lawyer spoke at the funeral.

Back to your father though and ignoring financial issues, if you can reconcile with him, then good luck. It's happened before. But speaking for myself and others I know, coming to grips with an abusive parent usually doesn't happen until their last days or never at all. Sorry to hear all the bad news bro. I don't even know you but I can relate to your situation. Good luck with everything. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I would agree that this is sort of stuff is best left to family and friends - normally, and I still question whether I should have posted it and I have considered deleting this thread a few times in the past few minutes. My mom is way too emotional when it comes with anything to do with my father (with good reason.) My wife is too emotional as well. She and my therapist are the only people in the world, I've ever told about what he did to me. Well, I've told you all in a general way as well, but I've told them specifics and I already know her answer when I tell her about this. My wife is definitely not someone I can talk to about this. As for most of my friends.. I don't know, it just doesn't seem very manly to talk about it (As a psychiatrist I know that is so stupid to say.) Whereas here, it is easier. I tried talking to my youth pastor about this stuff, but he is friends with my father and it really didn't work out. I don't know my new pastor (in New Orleans) well enough to talk about this sort of thing, and well he isn't accessible right now even if I did. I wish I could talk to my old therapist, but he unfortunately passed away from cancer last year. I don't really expect any answers from anyone here. It was somewhat helpful for me to post and try to clarify my thoughts, and I certainly know I'm not alone in having a rough past. I've seen much worse among some of the children and teenagers I work with. Your post AgPete was very helpful - thank you. I'm now off to dinner with my mother.

[digamma]

That is a really tough situation.

I'll answer the easy question first. Pictures. Technically if your father gets the house and all of your grandfather's earthly possessions, these would go along. However, they are likely of little extrinsic value, there would be no real legal recourse if you took any pictures or other things of sentimental value. Of course, it may cause additional ill will between you and your father.

I'm not really sure how to address the other part of your question, because I can't begin to put myself in your position. I'll humbly offer this. Ultimately, the only person you have to make peace with is yourself (you only have to live with yourself). If reconciling with your father is part of that, then I think you probably have to make every effort to do that.

[AgPete]

I would agree that this is sort of stuff is best left to family and friends - normally, and I still question whether I should have posted it and I have considered deleting this thread a few times in the past few minutes. My mom is way too emotional when it comes with anything to do with my father (with good reason.) My wife is too emotional as well. She and my therapist are the only people in the world, I've ever told about what he did to me. Well, I've told you all in a general way as well, but I've told them specifics and I already know her answer when I tell her about this. My wife is definitely not someone I can talk to about this. As for most of my friends.. I don't know, it just doesn't seem very manly to talk about it (As a psychiatrist I know that is so stupid to say.) Whereas here, it is easier. I tried talking to my youth pastor about this stuff, but he is friends with my father and it really didn't work out. I don't know my new pastor (in New Orleans) well enough to talk about this sort of thing, and well he isn't accessible right now even if I did. I wish I could talk to my old therapist, but he unfortunately passed away from cancer last year. I don't really expect any answers from anyone here. It was somewhat helpful for me to post and try to clarify my thoughts, and I certainly know I'm not alone in having a rough past. I've seen much worse among some of the children and teenagers I work with. Your post AgPete was very helpful - thank you. I'm now off to dinner with my mother.

Sometimes you just need to write out your thoughts... simple as that. :)

[judicial clerk]

Well, this is definitely a time when you feel like an adult.

You are obviously a thoughtful person and a person who understands emotional pain and therapy. You have been counseled and you have been a counselor I am not formally educated on these subjects and I am not a victim of abuse. I will say this: at the right time, you should continue to address the emotional issues you have with your father. I am confident that you will do this and you will be better for it. You are already expressing yourself here on this message board and I am sure you will do so with others. Notwithstanding that I am a novice, I think this is half the battle. Just talking (or writing) about issues and problems that we as individuals face is its own therapy. It helps us to see situations more clearly and understand our emotions.

I do not know if any reconciliation with your father is possible, and i would guess that reconciling only to fulfill your grandfathers wishes would not lead to a lasting reconcilliation. I bet your grandfather would be pleased enough if you only considered the possibility of reconciling with your father, and he would trust your judgment in the matter.

[Marc Vaughan]

Sorry to hear of your loss, in answer to your question ...

I don't think most people ever feel like an adult, as a kid you percieve 'grown ups' to be somehow different - as an adult you realise you're much the same as you were as a teenager at heart, just you've more responsibility and experience.

I've reached the rather ancient age of 31 and still feel like a kid (in fact my 9 year old daughter often asks me to act like an adult and stop being silly ... don't know whether thats good or bad really :D).