Ping-Fido...Any plans to make "reporter" work w/ 5.0d?

[FBPro]

I know that Jim adding the HTML aspect to FOF in the last patch is very nice, however it would also be nice to be able to use your reporter as well w/ v5.0d. Not that you would need to add any more functionality just so that it would work again.

Thanks in advance.

[nuggett]

any response

[gstelmack]

Fido has been pestered enough about this. See http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=22075 (which you've both posted in). Fido does not like to be pestered.

[nuggett]

The reason we keep pestering is that it would be nice to get an answer.... Will it be done or not and if it is, is there a timeframe...

I think we all would like to see a new Reporter, but if it is not going to be completed just let us know and we will quite the pestering, if it is then let us and we will wait until it is released.

I don't think there is any harm in asking.... It is an awesome utility and we all want it to be continued.

[3ric]

Fido said in another thread (as a response to me) that he will do a new version that supports 5.0d.

[Fido]

The reason we keep pestering is that it would be nice to get an answer.... Will it be done or not and if it is, is there a timeframe...

Sorry to be such an inconvenience for you and your gaming pleasure. You paid good money for this utility and deserve it to work 100% correctly 100% of the time...no wait a minute you didn't pay anything for it because I thought I would be nice and release it for free.

If you would take the time to actually read some of the posts in the other thread, you will see that I have answered this:

I think a 5.0d compatible version is needed, and wanted, by many.And Rest assured that you and the other "special" users will get one once I get the time to do it.
You do not even have the time to read a thread where this has been asked and answered yet you expect me to find time to rewrite the code? I'm supposed to use my free time to make your gaming experience better rather than...heavens forbid...play the game myself.

People do not seem to understand that it is messgaes/PMs/e-mails like this that drive me nuts with TCY helper and caused its development to stop. The users of this utility can now thank you for killing FOF Reporter.

[wig]

Hell yeah brother!

[Draft Dodger]

it's not like gstlemack didn't warn you...

[wig]

Besides, if Jim changed his format once and threw Fido off, he could do it again.

[Fido]

Besides, if Jim changed his format once to throw Fido off, he could do it again.
I am quite sure that Jim did not change the file format to throw anyone off. He needed to make changes to it to support bug fixes and/or enhancements to FOF and it is therefore a change for the better.

[gstelmack]

it's not like gstlemack didn't warn you...
All you can do is try...

[Solecismic]

Looks like Wig is trying to get back on the banned list. I actually tried to give Fido a heads up on this, but his email account was full. I included a note in the fix list indicating why I had to make the change - for someone as experienced as Fido, that note would definitely shorten the time it would take him to locate the format change.

It would be nice if Wig could make his point (that it's utterly pointless, in his opinion, to work on third-party utilities because there may be other bugs requiring format changes - even though that's happened maybe three times in six years) without a nasty accusation attached. I thought he removed that part of his screen name.

This brings up an interesting point, though. Some people in leagues have expressed concern that it's so easy to hack the data file and read true scouting information for players. The answer to this is partially to password-protect game access, but that isn't enough because the information is still there for hackers. I'd also need to encrypt the data file, which would blow any third-party utility looking at saved games completely out of the water.

I'm not saying I want to do this - people will always find a way to cheat, and this would be a lot of work when my time is probably best spent on other projects. But I'd be interested in knowing, down the road as leagues mature, if people in leagues have problems with cheating of this type.

[gstelmack]

As a game developer who has worked on several multiplayer titles, be careful how much effort you put into obfuscating / encrypting the data. It's very easy to fight a losing battle here, as hackers are clever. For one thing, they have the client exe, so they have your decryption code, and they will find it. Even without it, it's amazing what they'll figure out. All you can do is "raise the bar" and make it more difficult. You as a developer have to decide how much effort to put into it.

[nuggett]

All we are asking for is an answer.... If we had an answer we would not be pestering (as you call it).... I understand it is a free utility and I appreciate it (and like I stated before is very, very good), but we are not even allowed to ask simple questions, without a sarcastic comeback...

If it is not goign to be produced just tell the communtiy, if it is just say yes and we will have to wait until it is released. I am sure I speak for many to say if the answer is yes it will be much anticipated.

[wig]

Stop being such a baby, jim.

I was simply saying that your change screwed up his util. Why would he put all the time to fix it when you could make another change and render the util useless again?

[Solecismic]

Nice edit. Thanks for changing it to remove the accusation. I'll consider that an apology.

[wig]

Poor choice of words on my part.

You still need to relax and stop looking for a reason to be a bitch.

[gstelmack]

All we are asking for is an answer....
But you're asking over and over again. Ask once, if he doesn't want to answer that's his business. He doesn't owe you anything with this utility, even an answer as to what his plans are. If he chooses not to answer, leave him alone.

[Solecismic]

Poor choice of words on my part.

You still need to relax and stop looking for a reason to be a bitch.

Fido took it the same way. Are you saying that I shouldn't respond if someone makes an accusation? By ignoring it, I'm allowing people to believe it.

I did the same thing last week when Jason K. accused me of ripping off features from TPF (months before it was even released).

I'm going to defend myself - if you can't handle that, don't make stupid accusations (or be more careful with your choice of words).

[Draft Dodger]

This brings up an interesting point, though. Some people in leagues have expressed concern that it's so easy to hack the data file and read true scouting information for players. The answer to this is partially to password-protect game access, but that isn't enough because the information is still there for hackers. I'd also need to encrypt the data file, which would blow any third-party utility looking at saved games completely out of the water.


getting back on topic, hopefully...I think you already know that most of us, if given a choice between hack-proof data files, and utility-friendly data files, 99% of us would prefer the utility-friendly version.

[Ben E Lou]

getting back on topic, hopefully...I think you already know that most of us, if given a choice between hack-proof data files, and utility-friendly data files, 99% of us would prefer the utility-friendly version.Agreed.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

Did anyone else read this thread and think about a certain scene from Stripes???

[sabotai]

Hmmm, I didn't even think of hacking the files to see the real ratings...mwahaha!

Just kidding of course. :)

This reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend of mine (we were in a few TFC clans together). We did not see how anyone could have fun using hacks. How is beating someone when you know you have cheated satisfying? To me, the answer is it's not. I didn't even use certain script commands in TFC (that were allowed by most leagues) because I thought of it as making a challenge too easy. Anyway, the point is I do not get any satisfaction out of beating someone by cheating. I would hope most other people felt the same way.

[Fido]

All we are asking for is an answer.... If we had an answer we would not be pestering (as you call it).... I understand it is a free utility and I appreciate it (and like I stated before is very, very good), but we are not even allowed to ask simple questions, without a sarcastic comeback...
If my comeback was sarcastic then that is only because of your nagging. The question was asked and answered in another thread in which you had posted. I even gave a timeframe - "when I have the time".

Perhaps you don't understand the amount of work that I put into this thing. Between figuring out the file format, generating the HTML template, writing the code to populate the templates, and working with people to get the thing running ion their system, I had no time to actually play the game or use the utility. I even had to pull out of my league because I just did not have the time to both play in a league and work on the utility, but I chose to make a sacrifice for the community.

I'm not looking for a medal for it, but one should be able to expect better than repeated demands.

If it is not goign to be produced just tell the communtiy, if it is just say yes and we will have to wait until it is released. I am sure I speak for many to say if the answer is yes it will be much anticipated.
Becuase of course that is how all software is written. Jim always announces what he is working on next, and all of utility writers outline their plans. No. They do something, and when its ready to be released/shared then they announce it. Its the way I did it with the TCY Helper and the fOF Reporter, and some of the other utilities I made which never got to the point of being ready, and its the way I'm going to do things in the future. Deal with it and STFU or write your own.

I actually tried to give Fido a heads up on this, but his email account was full. I included a note in the fix list indicating why I had to make the change - for someone as experienced as Fido, that note would definitely shorten the time it would take him to locate the format change.
And I do appreciate that, Jim. I was out of state for a while, so my spam ridden yahoo account filled up rather quickly. Part of writing add-ons/utilities is dealing with file format changes. I knew that going in, and think its great that you made an effort to contact me.

It would be nice if Wig could make his point (that it's utterly pointless, in his opinion, to work on third-party utilities because there may be other bugs requiring format changes - even though that's happened maybe three times in six years) without a nasty accusation attached. I thought he removed that part of his screen name.
Very true, I've seen some companies that chage formats just to change formats and piss off developers/hackers.

I'm not saying I want to do this - people will always find a way to cheat, and this would be a lot of work when my time is probably best spent on other projects. But I'd be interested in knowing, down the road as leagues mature, if people in leagues have problems with cheating of this type.If people want to cheat they're going to cheat. If that's how then enjoy playing the game then more power to them. Online leagues will police this though, as people will start to notice players who make all the right moves and signings. Someone will eventually call foul. It is not, however how I enjoy playing the game, and is why I never displayed data that I knew without also figuring out how to apply scouting to it.

[MizzouRah]

But you're asking over and over again. Ask once, if he doesn't want to answer that's his business. He doesn't owe you anything with this utility, even an answer as to what his plans are. If he chooses not to answer, leave him alone.
Posts like this make me laugh.

I don't see anything wrong with asking a question, not getting an answer, so then re-asking the question. To me, it shows how excited nuggett is about Fido's work. What's wrong with that?

To think that Fido isn't going to be asked questions about a utility he made for FOF, is ludicrous. :rolleyes:


Todd

[nuggett]

Thanks Todd for the support... Guess I am not allowed to ask any more questions... Some people get too testy and nasty when asked... I am laughing myself... Simple questions and simple answers would be nice (not answer that are demeaning).

[sabotai]

I don't see anything wrong with asking a question, not getting an answer

But it was answered...that's pretty much the point. And it's not like Fido hasn't made it clear that he doesn't like to be "pestered". And it's not like this is only the 2nd time he's been "pestered". Ask a few times, but if you get no reply, then just give it up.

[MizzouRah]

But it was answered...that's pretty much the point. And it's not like Fido hasn't made it clear that he doesn't like to be "pestered". And it's not like this is only the 2nd time he's been "pestered". Ask a few times, but if you get no reply, then just give it up.
True, but I don't 'get it' with Fido.

The users of this utility can now thank you for killing FOF Reporter.I guess posts like these really baffle me. Someone asks a question twice and he takes his reporter and goes home? :confused:

I think the members here are much more mannered than some other boards when 'pestering'.....

Anyhow, I appreciate what Fido is doing for Jim's game, I just wish he was a little more 'open' to questions/help from people who aren't deemed "special" yet.


Todd

[RedKingGold]

I stayed out of this, but I've got to side with Mizzourah on this one. While I can see some of nuggett's posts as "nagging" why can't it just be taken in stride? Why can't you just copy and paste the post from a previous thread if its that much of a bother to answer the same questions over and over again.

Sometimes, a post is made to answer a question, but because of the large volume of activity on the board, it gets buried (hence the use of "bump"). Asking the same question may not be because of ignorance, but just because of misinterpretation.

I agree with Fido's reasons, but why the negativity. Why do negative comments have to be made on "both" sides.

In any case, Fido, why don't you just charge for use of the FOF Reporter. I, and many others, would likely be happy to pay $10-30 for use of the utility. I hate the sentiment that you are implying that I (like others) am cheap and don't deserve to use the FOF Reporter because I didn't make a "donation".

In all honesty, I would be happy to make a donation, but I'm leery of using PayPal because of some problems I've had with them. To that end, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Fido, would you be willing to send me a mailing address (via PM), and I will mail a check out to you. I would be more than happy to send you a donation because I do appreciate the work that you do.

End of rant

Thanks,
Michael

[MizzouRah]

I would be more than happy to send you a donation because I do appreciate the work that you do.

...and I would too, as long as Fido provided tech support to get the utility working, I can't get the new version to work (he did help me when asked, but I scrapped it weeks ago due to the errors I get when trying to run it)...

Although I should donate anyway as I've used TCY helper extensively. :)

What is required?


Todd

[Tasan]

You know what? I'm getting damned tired of Fido and his attitude of "I made this and its free so shut up or I'll take it away from you, you didn't pay for it" attitude. Read freaking righteous. We all KNOW you spent time on it, we all KNOW its free. Hell, charge for it. I'm sure plenty of people will pay you, and then we don't have to see you bitch to people when they ask a question, answered already or not. Its not like they knock on your home's door or call you on the phone about it. Either reply to them, or don't.

Dammit I'm just sick of this. I didnt' even want to write this, but I did so, so maybe Fido WOULD just takes his toys and go home, so we don't have to put up with is horrible attitude.

ARGH.

[sabotai]

See, this is why I don't make utilities for FOF

[wig]

Damn, no kidding

[Alf]

People need to cool off in thie thread.

[Draft Dodger]

some of you guys are really missing the point

Fido makes these utilities in his spare time - which leaves him precious little time to support the product. Short of quitting his day job, that's the way it's going to be. People using his stuff have 2 options:

1) use it as is, knowing he doesn't have time to support it
2) don't use it.

could he be nicer on this board? sure. could that be said about most of the people here? absolutely.

[RedKingGold]

I don't want to turn this into a bitch fest. Like I said in my previous post, I agree with Fido's stance on this. I understand that he has a life and cannot answer to my beck and call. I use to pester him, but he told me not to and I backed off.

But as Draft Dodger said (and we, including Tasan) have to try to do is just be nicer and more understanding. A nasty message just breeds another, and another and turns into a flame war.

Let's all chill out and smoke a bong and not fight over a game/utility, etc.

Mike

[QuikSand]

We are FOFC.

[TLK]

Wow.....

[Axxon]

This thread is exactly why I voted for Jim to do his own HTML when he asked about it. Fido's made it pretty clear where he stands and it doesn't make sense to have an extremely popular feature rely on someone who really isn't dedicated to maintaining it. Fido has the unenviable task of fighting bitterly to protect his privacy while trying to contribute something nice to the community that really wants the contribution. THAT has to be tough if it's even possible.

I'm not saying that he should be more dedicated either. That's his decision and I respect it. I applaud his efforts and what he's given us so far. He got the ball rolling on the html thing so we now have official in game support. I really feel the community should be pushing to have the official version enhanced instead of bothering a reluctant utility writer and pushing his one button that he's made very clear he doesn't want pushed.

Now, I'll let everybody get back to their Fido bashing.

[RedKingGold]

I from Canada and they think I slow,.....eh??????

[kcchief19]

Agree with Axxon regarding why I also wanted Jim to do his own HTML. Utilities are great, but I don't think a developer should ever count on a third-party util to make their game complete.

Of course, if anybody who is bashing Fido would go make a donation to his Paypal account, they could stalk and harrass Fido all they want because he's made it clear that if you aren't paying for it, you can't bitch, which I assume means if you do pay for it you are more or less obligated to bitch. :)

[Fido]

Lots of posts to think about in this thread, but I do just want to try to clear up one thing:


I hate the sentiment that you are implying that I (like others) am cheap and don't deserve to use the FOF Reporter because I didn't make a "donation".That was never my intent, and I am sorry that it came across like that. I wanted some way to thank people for showing their appreciation, so I came up with releasing the versions to them before the general release. They woudl get 1.8 and I would put 1.7 up for general download. With the exception of the latest version, there is nothing available to one user that is not available to all users.

[The_herd]

Lots of posts to think about in this thread, but I do just want to try to clear up one thing:

That was never my intent, and I am sorry that it came across like that. I wanted some way to thank people for showing their appreciation, so I came up with releasing the versions to them before the general release. They woudl get 1.8 and I would put 1.7 up for general download. With the exception of the latest version, there is nothing available to one user that is not available to all users.

I think that's fair for all sides on this issue. I'm also one of the people that fell into the issue of wanting to donate, but couldn't get the latest version of reporter to work. Its good to see this solved in a way that really encourages people to donate, but doesn't force them.

[Ben E Lou]

I was out of town this weekend, and coming back seeing this, I am so frustrated that I am beside myself. The man takes his free time to write a utility, explicitly says over and over again that he doesn't have time to support it, explicitly says over and over again not to PM, e-mail, or bug him about it at FOFC, CREATES A TECH SUPPORT THREAD AT HIS FORUM to have a proper place for Tech support when he has time, and you people see fit to ignore his requests, and bug him at FOFC about it, and PM him about it and e-mail him about it. Then, when he's had enough of people treating him like that, some of you have the gall to get indignant toward him.
I am now in discussion with Fido trying to convince him to ever come to this place again, or ever write another utility again. I have removed all links to his utilities from the reference thread for now, at his request, because of your actions.

Some of you make me sick.

And in case you didn't pick it up earlier in the thread, the Stripes scene I was referring to was when Bill Murray's smart-aleck comments end up getting the entire platoon extra running. One of the guys gets in Murray's face and says, "Nice going, asshole."

Yup. That about sums it up.

--Ben

[gstelmack]

I am now in discussion with Fido trying to convince him to ever come to this place again, or ever write another utility again. I have removed all links to his utilities from the reference thread for now, at his request, because of your actions.

Ah, great. Just great. Just what I tried to head off.

I'll add another quote:

Peggy: "Thank your father, kids."

Bud & Kelly: (sarcastically) "Thanks dad."

[ERoy]

I'm new here, and fairly new to FOF (I own FOF 2001, and 2002, and now 2004) but never frequented this thread much) and I'm going from forum to forum to catch up on things. After reading this thread, I am absolutely amazed at the attitudes of people here, on both sides.

To FIDO: I don't know you, and I've never used your utilities. I'm sure they're great, and very useful. But, damn, boy, lighten up. It seems to me you want people to congratulate you for all your hard work and effort, but when people either call you to task for errors in the program, or ask in an an enthusiastic way, you act like a child and throw a tantrum. This is entirely your perogative, but you must realize that when you put out a utility for a popular item, to expect feedback and responses, BOTH positive and negative. Lighten up, and realize this comes with the territory. I may not be savvy to how many PM's or emails you've gotten about it, but I'd take this as a compliment. If you put out a bad product, people simply wouldn't bother.

To Those who harrass FIDO: It's wise to do research on something before you ask for help, to stop the responses. If FIDO has a site (he does, I checked) and a forum (he does), that might be a more appropriate place to post questions and requests for updates, since he would go there to get feedback. This may not be the appropriate place to ask these sorts of questions, especially if the questions have been already answered in another forum. Yes, FIDO may not have responded in a polite way, but when you escalate to it, you don't help your cause any. Remember, he has the ball. He has the thing you want, so pissing him off will/has caused him to go home with it. If he owns the ball, he can do whatever he wants with it, including not telling anyone where it is. :-)

Now.
Play.
Nice.
:-)

Eric
Summit Football League (www.summitfootball.net)

[wig]

You smell like cheerios

[Subby]

:beatingadeadhorsesmiley:

[RedKingGold]

All together now

Let it go!

[jeff061]

Seems to me he only wants people to enjoy what he makes, doesn't want praise, doesn't want worthless criticism(can take constructive though), and doesn't want to be nagged with PM's and emails.

Yeah, that bastartd.