Slaughter in Madrid

[KeyserSoze]

In Madrid ETA (a fuc**d bunch of terrorist) have make an slaughter. I was late 15 minutes so i´ve to come back home. I think they are morre than 100 deads.

Its terrible terrible. Dawn killers....
The worst terrorist attack in Madrid

[JeeberD]

Nothing on any of the news networks here. Surprise, surprise...

Take care out there. Stay safe!

[Chief Rum]

Any other details? And are they Basque terrorists? Ouch, if those numbers are right, that's terrible. How did it happen?

CR

[KeyserSoze]

Basque terrorist.

They have put 3-4 bombs in Atocha, in the "cercany roads" (I dont know the translation in english). Something like a subway network we have. At this hour all the people who works and is not very rich was going to work (myself included).

This will be very very bloody. The worst in Spain. We are very shocked

[Chief Rum]

Found a story in Yahoo news.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040311/wl_nm/spain_explosions_dc

CR

[Kokoshin]

Damn bastards hit Madrid as they never did before. Apparently between 4-5 explosions occured in trains which were crowded with people at peak hour (between 7.30-8.00 am), including one at Estacion de Atocha, which I believe is Madrid (and possibly Spain's) largest railway station. Even though there is no numbers yet, they are talking around 100 killed and hundreds injured.

I'll keep you updated if you're interested.

In a personal note of anger, I'm fed up with CNN biased coverage. They keep calling ETA "basque separatist". Well, I know a lot of people who support basque separatism and they don't hang around placing bombs here and there. Dear Sirs of the CNN. They are terrorists, slaughters, criminals, butchers, bastards, son of nasty bitches and whatever you want to call them, but for f**k sake, don't ever called them again separatists. Thanks, KeyserSoze for calling them by their true name

Have a nice day... I'm trying.

[KeyserSoze]

In a personal note of anger, I'm fed up with CNN biased coverage. They keep calling ETA "basque separatist". Well, I know a lot of people who support basque separatism and they don't hang around placing bombs here and there. Dear Sirs of the CNN. They are terrorists, slaughters, criminals, butchers, bastards, son of nasty bitches and whatever you want to call them, but for f**k sake, don't ever called them again separatists. Thanks, KeyserSoze for calling them by their true name

Have a nice day... I'm trying.

Totally right. Is like some stupid bastard call Al Qaeda a group of "religious guys". In Spain there is a lot of separatist. People that using the democracy tries to get their objetives. Fine. I respect them even I dont think like them.

But in the US media if you dont kill an american you are a nice guy. Spanish soldiers died in Irak supporting US soldiers, but when terrorist attack us they are separatist.

FUCK*** terrorist
A pray for the people in the trains

[fantastic flying froggies]

Official number is up to more than 60 dead...

My thoughts go out to all you guys...I feel for you...

[Icy]

Really sad news for us Spanish, this is the worst terrorist attack in the Spanish history. Betwen 70 to 100 dead inocent guys, more than 300 wounded, they put 3 bombs into 3 trains at the peak hour when everybody was going to work.
Just to listen to the victims by radio makes you want to cry, I'm really shocked.

[Chief Rum]

This is a good time, of course, to remember that not all terrorists are Moslems. I hope we support Spain against these bastards as well as they have supported us. IIRC, Spain not only sent soliders to Iraq, but they were one of the few EU nations that stood by us with the UK when we were pushing for the attack on Iraq.

FWIW, I don't think the US media has a real term for the sort of terrorists this Basque organization represents, at least besides "terrorists". Also, if the separation of the Basque region from Spain is the primary reason they do what they do (and my understanding is that is the case), then the CNN report would certainly seem to be accurate. They are extremists in the separatist movement, just like al Qaeda was an extremist subset of Islam fundamentalists, of course, but US media are reporting to the US audience, and by placing that label on them, they are expalining to us dull Americans what the big deal is (about the group, not about the attacks, which of course, tragically need no explaining :( ).

In Spain, of course, the media won't bother saying that, because everyone there already knows what ETA is.

Just trying to explain from the American point of view why CNN would have reported it that way. Not that that should help your guys' attitudes on the issue, which is understandably one of anger and fear and grief.

I hope you find the bastards and punish them for what they deserve.

CR

[Kokoshin]

CR, you're probably right, but it should be imperative that CNN or, by extension, all the American media, find another word to define these bastards, since the expression "separatism" clusters a lot of political parties and individuals who rejects violence in any case.

I believe that, since ETA will acknowledge this monstruosity (as they had always acknowledged all their actions in the past), using the word "criminal organization" should suit best for them. They're not "alleged separatist".

Death count is at 130, according with a spokesman from the Interior Ministry. There are more than 350 injured. Police is still searching for more bombs, since this is another of the favourite tricks of these bastards. Delay some bombs until the police is there to make more damage. They've done it before and they will keep doing.

[Darkiller]

131 deads and over 400 wounded now...

[Tekneek]

I just heard on the radio that ETA is denying responsibility.

[ice4277]

Sorry to hear about this :( Hopefully whoever did this will be caught and brought to justice, quickly.

[JAG]

ETA can deny all they want, but it's complete bs.

My condolences to all our Spanish FOFCers. Just horrible.

[Icy]

Fucking shit, 172 dead and 711 wounded, the count keeps growing.
the main news are that the leader of the unofficial politic faction of ETA is saying that they haven't done it and he claims that could have been muslims as Spain is helping USA in IRAK. The European stock market is going down fast because this supposed muslims responsability.
Being just 3 days before Spanish presidential elections, all points to ETA, as they have done it before. I even think that there are some factions into ETA that didn't want something like this so mybe they are thinking if they should claim this horrible act without precedents in Spain or mybe they will try to avoid responsabilities as something as detestable won't help them to get any support for their cause.

[JAG]

Strange coincidence that today is exactly 6 months from 9/11.

[BreizhManu]

ETA can deny all they want, but it's complete bs.

Batasuna denying it is a very big news, not complete bullshit, they tend to claim all their terrorists actions.

Only thing that could make me think of ETA is that Aznar claimed they were finished, and they could have done that to prove him wrong. Else I'm not really sure they have all the logistics needed to do this.

[Icy]

Yeah BreizhManu, also a van full of explosives was caught 2 weeks ago going to Madrid, the two ETA terrorists driving it had an accident and they were caught. Also last months ETA has been hit really hard from Spanish and French police (don't forget that ETA also claims part of France as part of the Basque Country), their leaders caught etc so mybe thy were trying to do something really big to show that they are still alive. But this was really terrible so mybe the "softer" crew at ETA are regretting from it and trying to avoid responsabilities.

[WSUCougar]

Thoughts and prayers to Spain. Another sad day in the world.

[BreizhManu]

Yeah BreizhManu, also a van full of explosives was caught 2 weeks ago going to Madrid, the two ETA terrorists driving it had an accident and they were caught. Also last months ETA has been hit really hard from Spanish and French police (don't forget that ETA also claims part of France as part of the Basque Country), their leaders caught etc so mybe thy were trying to do something really big to show that they are still alive. But this was really terrible so mybe the "softer" crew at ETA are regretting from it and trying to avoid responsabilities.

Don't worry I don't forget anything, I've spent one year in San Sebastian three years ago, I know the problem quite well.

Why I'm not sure it's because that's not their usual modus operandi, and since I don't trust Aznar either... It might be them to prove they're still strong but it can also be muslim terrorists because of the action of Spain in Irak.

We shall have more infos in a few days.

[Kokoshin]

For me, Otegi (the head of Batasuna, the "political" arm of ETA) can say whatever he wants. He can't be in the "I didn't do it" mode, because the fact is that he did it with another 1000 people ETA killed along their bloody history,

The fact is that ETA tried to hit hard Spanish people three times in the last 2 months. First they tried to explosion some bombs in a couple of trains on Christmas Eve, but the police caught them. Second, the episode Icy wrote before, and we suppose this is third.

Some of you probably don't know that we have elections next Sunday, and the party government is expected to win again, albeit not with enough majority as they had for the last 8 years. Even though I'm not in line with this government, I must recognize that one of their best efforts has been fighting terrorism. Maybe ETA is trying to force some negotiations with a lot of deaths over the table. They did it before.

In any case, I couldn't care less if it has been ETA or Al-Qaeda or whatever. They did it. All of them. And they'll pay for every drop of blood they spilled.

[GrantDawg]

So sorry to hear about this. My prayers are with Spain and her leaders.

[Tekneek]

Maybe it was a rogue operation by some ETA folk on somebody else's payroll? I'm sure that's an angle that will be probed today.

[ZouDave]

Just saw that the toll is up to 170+ dead now....holy crap

another story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113887,00.html

Very, very sad news.

[BreizhManu]

Looks like it is ETA for sure now, the bombs used are the same they've used in other terrorist attacks.

[Ben E Lou]

Just awful. Prayers going out for your nation. :(


On some level, I can "understand" Al-Qaida/Osama/September 11th. They hate America, Americans, and all that we stand for, so they kill Americans. Pretty simple.

I'm not familiar with this group. Help me understand the "logic" behind random killings of their own countrymen. :confused: :mad:

[BreizhManu]

Just awful. Prayers going out for your nation. :(


On some level, I can "understand" Al-Qaida/Osama/September 11th. They hate America, Americans, and all that we stand for, so they kill Americans. Pretty simple.

I'm not familiar with this group. Help me understand the "logic" behind random killings of their own countrymen. :confused: :mad:

They don't consider them as countrymen, they want independence for the Basque country (Euskadi), for them Spaniard is an insult.

[Ben E Lou]

They don't consider them as countrymen, they want independence for the Basque country (Euskadi), for them Spaniard is an insult.Thanks for the info.

Follow-up question: So, would it be safe to assume that very few, if any, fellow Basques would be on the trains in Madrid?

[BreizhManu]

Thanks for the info.

Follow-up question: So, would it be safe to assume that very few, if any, fellow Basques would be on the trains in Madrid?

Probably, but they're going to say they were traitors.

That's the ETA logic.

[Icy]

SkyDog, don't try to underestand it, it's just some nazi shit, they even claim that their blood is not the same that the rest of Spanish have. They were more about politics some years ago, now after having lots of their leaders in prison and after they have lost the support from mostly of Basques as they showed to be just assasins. They are formed now just by young kids without brain (the last ones caught 2 weeks ago driving the van full of bombs to Madrid were just 25 years old), that are even worst as they are unnorganized but much more agressive.
It's really stupid to think on the independence from Spain when lots of guys from all around Spain live there and basques also are spread around all the rest of Spain. They want to be a new country when all europeans are merging to fund just one big Europe.
Sadly for a bunch of kids is too easy to do what they did, put bags full of bombs into trains, you don't need any skill for that, just a fucked brain.
I really wish a change in our laws, by now when we catch any of this assasins they just spend 5 or 10 years at prison (the max in spain is around 30 years, but if you behave well in prison you can come out before) and then they come back to ETA, as their actual leader that spent some time at prison, then he went out of prison and he is leading them now again.

[fantastic flying froggies]

This is absolutely the bloodiest action of that sort in Spain, and probably all of Western Europe.
To put things in perspective, ETA begun its terrorits actions in 1968 and is responsible for around 850 deaths since then, in a span of 35 years.

Today, in just 1 day, they killed at least 173...

Icy, you say 30 yrs prison is the maximum sentence. Does that mean that, like France, you don't have the death penalty anymore ? Such events make me wish it was back...

[Icy]

This is absolutely the bloodiest action of that sort in Spain, and probably all of Western Europe.
To put things in perspective, ETA begun its terrorits actions in 1968 and is responsible for around 850 deaths since then, in a span of 35 years.

Today, in just 1 day, they killed at least 173...

Icy, you say 30 yrs prison is the maximum sentence. Does that mean that, like France, you don't have the death penalty anymore ? Such events make me wish it was back...

We don't have the death penalty since around 30 years ago, i usually don't support it, but things like this makes me whish we still have it for terrorists and rapist. At least we should have the perpetual penalty to have them in prison for the rest of their lifes.

[fantastic flying froggies]

We don't have the death penalty since around 30 years ago, i usually don't support it, but things like this makes me whish we still have it for terrorists and rapist. At least we should have the perpetual penalty to have them in prison for the rest of their lifes.
My thoughts exactly...

[Ksyrup]

On CNN breaking news:

Spanish interior minister says new line of Madrid blast investigation opened after police find van with detonators and Arabic-language tapes. Details soon.

[Kokoshin]

Icy explained it perfectly. It's got nothing to do with politics. It was, but not now, 29 years after General Franco died. ETA has been linked with drugs and arms smuggling and now their "business" is too big to dismantle for the sake of "freedom" or "separatism". They are MAFIA, and their methods are the same Mafia uses everywhere (including killing small drug-smugglers who don't pay "protection").

As for death penalty, I'm absoulutely against it, but there are some days I'm not very sure of it... Today is one of them. Even though I don't support our President, Mr. Aznar, he said something today I really enjoyed: "They will see every dawn from behind the prison walls". I admit it touched me.

Hope it's true.

[GrantDawg]

Breaking: London paper says they have gotten a letter claiming responsibility from Al-Queda.

[vtbub]

CNBC is reporting that Al-Qaeda has taken responsibility for today's bombings in Madrid.

Deepest condolences from New England.

[Ksyrup]

Well, this appears to be the first of a number of attempts to weaken the resolve of US partners against terrorism.

[vtbub]

From MSNBC:

Madrid bombings tied to Muslim extremists?
Van with Arabic tape found nearby after attack kills more than 190
Kai Pfaffenbach / Reuters
Spanish forensic experts inspect the bodies of victims of an explosion on a train outside Madrid's Atocha station Thursday.


FREE VIDEO
March 11: Scores are dead after explosions in Madrid. NBC's Dawna Friesen reports early Thursday before the death toll was raised.

Today show
NBC, MSNBC and news services
Updated: 3:07 p.m. ET March 11, 2004

MADRID, Spain - A wave of bombings that killed at least 190 Madrid train commuters and left 1,240 injured Thursday could have been the work of Muslim extremists, Spanish officials said after finding a van with detonators and an Arabic-language tape containing Quranic verses.

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Police found the van in the town of Alcala de Henares, 15 miles east of Madrid, Interior Minister Angel Acebes said at a news conference Thursday night. He said the discovery opened news lines of investigation.

The bombed trains originated in Alcala de Henares or passed through it, the state rail company RENFE said. Neighbors tipped police, who found seven detonators and the tape on the front seat of the van, Acebes said.

"Because of this, I have just given instructions to the security forces not to rule out any line of investigation," Acebes said. Still, he said, the Basque separatist group ETA remained the “main line of investigation” in the blasts.

In the worst terror attack in Spain's history, 10 powerful explosions tore through trains and train stations in Madrid just days before Spain's general elections.

Spain initially blamed ETA, but a senior U.S. intelligence source told NBC News that that conclusion might be wrong and that the CIA was looking for any connection to the al-Qaida terrorist network.

'Mass murder'
Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar called the attacks "mass murder" and vowed to hunt down the attackers.

The bombs, nearly all in backpacks, exploded in a 15-minute span along nine miles of a commuter line, Acebes said. Police found and detonated three more.


Slide show

• Terrorist bombs rock Madrid
View images from the tragedy that killed dozens of morning commuters.
At least two bombs exploded around 7:40 a.m. local time in a commuter train arriving at Atocha station, a bustling hub for subway, commuter and long-distance trains. Blasts rocked two other stops on a commuter line leading to Atocha.

Worst hit was a double-decker train at the El Pozo station, where two bombs killed at least 70 people, fire department inspector Juan Redondo said.

Rescue workers carried away bodies covered in sheets of shiny gold fabric. People with bloodied faces sat on curbs, using cell phones to tell others they were alive. Hospitals appealed for people to come in and donate blood. Buses had to be pressed into service as ambulances.

People in tears streamed away from the Atocha station in droves.

"I saw many things explode in the air, I don't know, it was horrible," said Juani Fernandez, a civil servant who was on the platform waiting to go to work. "People started to scream and run, some bumping into each other and as we ran there was another explosion. I saw people with blood pouring from them, people on the ground."

Spain ties dynamite to ETA
There was no claim of responsibility, but government ministers initially blamed the explosions on ETA, which is branded by the United States and the European Union as a terrorist organization.

The bombers used titadine, a kind of compressed dynamite also found in a bomb-laden van intercepted last month as it headed for Madrid, a source at Aznar’s office said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Officials blamed ETA then, too.

However, the leader of an outlawed Basque party linked to the separatist group denied the deadly explosions were the work of ETA and he suggested "Arab resistance" elements were responsible.

Arnold Otegi told Radio Popular that ETA always phones in warnings before it attacks. Spanish officials said earlier there was no warning before Thursday's attack.

"The modus operandi, the high number of victims and the way it was carried out make me think, and I have a hypothesis in mind, that yes it may have been an operative cell from the Arab resistance," Otegi said.

Al-Qaida to blame?
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw declined to speculate when asked if the militant group al-Qaida, blamed for similar simultaneous bombing attacks against British interests in Turkey in November, was responsible.

Britain and Spain were leading allies in last year’s U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

A senior U.S. intelligence official told NBC's Andrea Mitchell that the CIA still does not know who is responsible and that it is "still subject to great debate and confusion" in the counter-terrorism community.

Factors pointing toward some kind of al-Qaida link include: the scale of the attack; the lack of anyone taking credit; the simultaneity of the multiple attacks; and the fact that Ayman al-Zawahiri, a senior al-Qaida figure, on his last tape said Spain and other Iraq coalition members would be targeted.

The U.S. official said Spain had been contacted about any forensics it may have and to see if there are any post-attack communications, such as congratulatory calls or people backing away from the attacks.

In addition, several al-Qaida-linked terrorists were captured in Spain or were believed to have operated from there.

Fact File About the ETA
Euskadi ta Askatasuna (ETA) is fighting for an independent Basque state in northern Spain and southwestern France.
The group has killed nearly 850 people since 1968, typically using car bombs or shootings. The number of ETA killings had been falling, from 23 in 2000 to three in 2003.
Spain, the United States and the European Union have listed ETA as a terrorist organization. Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, who survived an ETA attack while he was opposition leader in 1995, made eliminating the group a top priority.
In 2002 the Spanish government banned the Basque political party Batasuna, which it described as ETA’s political wing. The party denied the charge. Batasuna won 10 percent of the vote in Basque parliamentary elections in May 2001.
ETA has been under pressure in recent years with 179 suspected members detained during 2003 and a total of 650 suspects arrested since 2000, mostly in Spain and France.
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ETA has killed around 850 people since 1968 in its fight for Basque independence and has been a looming presence in the run-up to the Spanish elections as well as a focus for politicians vowing to take a tough line with the guerrilla group.

If ETA is found responsible, it would be the worst attack ever by the group, exceeding the 21 killed in a supermarket blast in Barcelona in 1987.

The government convened anti-ETA rallies nationwide for Friday evening.

"What a horror," said the Basque regional president, Juan Jose Ibarretxe, who insisted ETA does not represent the Basque people. "When ETA attacks, the Basque heart breaks into a thousand pieces."

"This is one of those days that you don't want to live through," said opposition Socialist party spokesman Jesus Caldera. "ETA must be defeated," referring to the group as "those terrorists, those animals."

The bombings were also condemned by leaders around the world, among them U.S. President Bush, who said, "We weep with the families. We stand strong with the people of Spain." He did not mention who the United States thought might be responsible.

Earlier plots tied to ETA
Spanish police had been on high alert for Basque separatist violence ahead of general elections Sunday, in which regional tensions and how to fight ETA have been key themes.


Madrid blasts
• Latest developments
• 'War zone' in city
• World condemnation
• Analysis: A horrific reminder
• ETA timeline

On Feb. 29, police intercepted a Madrid-bound van packed with more than 1,100 pounds of explosives, and blamed ETA. On Christmas Eve, police thwarted an attempted bombing at Chamartin, another Madrid rail station, and arrested two suspected ETA members.

Acebes, the interior minister, said the earlier train plot made it "absolutely clear and evident that the terrorist organization ETA was looking to commit a major attack. The only thing that varies is the train station that was targeted.”

Spanish officials had said ETA was against the ropes after the arrest last year of more than 150 members or collaborators in Spain and France, including the leaders of ETA’s commando network. Last year, ETA killed three people, compared with 23 in 2000 and 15 in 2001.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

[Masked]

The recent reports about Al-Qaeda suprise me. I believe in the past, Al-Qaeda never claims responsibility for any attacks which has distinguished them from most (if not all) other terrorist groups who are usually very willing to claim responsibility.

However, I would not be at all suprised if Al-Qaeda was responsible especially considering ETA has denied their involvement which (I believe) is not consistent with their history.

[KevinNU7]

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/071/world/Bombs_kill_190_in_Spanish_trai:.shtml

Bombs kill 190 in Spanish train system ahead of weekend election
By Mar Roman, Associated Press, 3/11/2004 15:13

MADRID, Spain (AP) Ten terrorist bombs tore through trains and stations along a commuter line at the height of Madrid's morning rush hour Thursday, killing more than 190 people and wounding 1,200 others before this weekend's general elections.

The government initially blamed Basque separatists for the worst terrorist strike in Spanish history. But the interior minister said other lines of investigation were opened after police found a van Thursday with detonators and an audiotape of Quranic verses near where the bombed trains originated.

''This is mass murder,'' said a somber Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar following an emergency cabinet meeting, vowing to hunt down the attackers.

The bombers used titadine, a kind of compressed dynamite also found in a bomb-laden van intercepted last month as it headed for Madrid, a source at Aznar's office said on condition of anonymity. Officials blamed the ETA separatist group at that time.

Police found a van with detonators and an Arabic-language tape with Quranic verses in the town of Alcala de Henares, 15 miles east of Madrid, Interior Minister Angel Acebes said Thursday night.

Police found seven detonators and the tape on the front seat of the van, Acebes told a news conference.

He added that ETA remained the ''main line of investigation'' in the blasts, Europe's worst terror attack since the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270.

Three of the four trains bombed Thursday originated in Alcala de Henares and one passed through it, the state rail company said.

Panicked commuters abandoned bags and their shoes as they trampled each other to escape the Atocha terminal, where bombs struck two trains. Some fled into darkened, dangerous tunnels at the station, a bustling hub for subway, commuter and long-distance trains just south of Madrid's famed Prado Museum.

The bodies of the dead, some with their cell phones ringing unanswered as frantic relatives tried to contact them, were carried away by rescue workers. The wounded, faces bloodied, sat on curbs as buses were pressed into service as ambulances.

One firefighter said he saw 70 bodies along a platform at El Pozo station, just east of downtown Madrid. One corpse had been blown onto the roof.

Forty coroners worked to identify remains, the national news agency Efe said, and a steady stream of taxis carried relatives to a sprawling convention center where the bodies were taken.

A total of 10 bombs, nearly all in backpacks, exploded in a 15-minute span along nine miles of the commuter line running from Santa Eugenia to the Madrid hub of Atocha killing 192 people and injuring more than 1,240, Interior Minister Angel Acebes said.

Police found and detonated three other bombs.

The blasts began about 7:40 a.m., tearing through trains or platforms on the commuter line running to the Atocha station. At least two of the bombs went off in trains at that station.

ETA has been blamed for more than 800 deaths in its decades-old campaign to carve an independent Basque homeland from territory straddling northern Spain and southwest France. However, its attacks have been on a lesser scale than Thursday's bombings, with the largest toll being 21 killed in a supermarket blast in Barcelona in 1987.

Spanish officials had said ETA was against the ropes after the arrest last year of more than 150 members or collaborators in Spain and France, including the leaders of ETA's commando network. Last year, ETA killed three people, compared with 23 in 2000 and 15 in 2001.

Spain held peace talks with ETA in the late 1980s and again in 1998 after the group declared a cease-fire that lasted 14 months. But ETA resumed attacks, and Aznar has insisted on crushing it with police measures.

''No negotiation is possible or desirable with these assassins who so many times have sown death all around Spain,'' Aznar said Thursday.

Acebes said ETA tried a similar attack on Christmas Eve, placing bombs on two trains bound for a Madrid station that was not hit Thursday. He also noted the Feb. 29 police interception of a Madrid-bound van packed with more than 1,100 pounds of explosives. Authorities blamed ETA.

''Therefore, it is absolutely clear and evident that the terrorist organization ETA was looking to commit a major attack,'' Acebes said. ''The only thing that varies is the train station that was targeted.''

A top Basque politician, Arnold Otegi, denied the separatists were behind the blasts and blamed ''Arab resistance,'' noting that Spain's government backed the Iraq war despite domestic opposition. Many al-Qaida-linked terrorists also were captured in Spain or were believed to have operated from there.

Otegi told Radio Popular in San Sebastian that ETA always phones in warnings before attacking. Acebes said there was no warning Thursday.

President Bush called Aznar to express solidarity and sympathy, condemning ''this vicious attack of terrorism in the strongest possible terms,'' National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack said.

''The United States stands resolutely with Spain in the fight against terrorism in all its forms and against the particular threat that Spain faces from the evil of ETA terrorism,'' added Secretary of State Colin Powell.

More than eight in 10 Spaniards said in an Associated Press-Ipsos poll taken last month that they are worried about the threat of terrorism in their country. That was the highest level of concern about terrorism in five European countries polled Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Rescue workers were overwhelmed, said Enrique Sanchez, an ambulance driver who went to Santa Eugenia station, about six miles southeast of the Atocha station.

''There was one carriage totally blown apart. People were scattered all over the platforms. I saw legs and arms. I won't forget this ever. I've seen horror,'' Sanchez said.

Shards of twisted metal were scattered by rails in the Atocha station at the spot where an explosion severed a train in two.

''I saw many things explode in the air ... it was horrible,'' said Juani Fernandez, 50, a civil servant who was on the platform waiting to go to work.

''People started to scream and run, some bumping into each other and as we ran there was another explosion. I saw people with blood pouring from them, people on the ground.''

The attack horrified Spain on the eve of Sunday's general election. Campaigning was called off and three days of mourning were declared. Newspapers ran special editions.

The campaign was largely dominated by separatist tensions in regions like the Basque country, with both the ruling conservative Popular Party and the opposition Socialists ruling out talks with ETA. The Socialists had come under withering criticism because a politician linked to them in the Catalonia region admitted meeting with ETA members in France in January.

The government convened anti-ETA rallies nationwide for Friday evening and announced three days of mourning.

''What a horror,'' said the Basque regional president, Juan Jose Ibarretxe, who insisted ETA does not represent the Basque people. ''When ETA attacks, the Basque heart breaks into a thousand pieces.''

[ScottVib]

CNN Breaking News Headline:

London newspaper says it received e-mail from al Qaeda-affiliated group claiming responsibility for Madrid bombings. Details soon.

[sabotai]

I wonder if ETA did it, denied it, and then someone in Al-Quada saw they denied it and thought this would be a good chance to jump up and say "we did it" to try to show they still have strength?

Maybe the ETA and Al-Quada worked together on this?

[Ksyrup]

Maybe the ETA and Al-Quada worked together on this?
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Put yourself in al-qaeda's shoes. You are the most targeted terror organization in the world. However, there are other, lesser-known or worried-about organizations who, while maybe not holding the same values as you, wants the same end result to occur in a number of countries. You're both looking to terrorize people, even if you have different agendas. So, you agree to finance these organizations, let them carry out the details, and then you claim responsibility, taking the heat off of them. I'm already suspecting that the van they "found" was simply planted to make it an obvious, connect-the-dots investigation which would lead to al-qaeda.

This probably speaks to how well we have limited al-qaeda's effectiveness, that they would feel the need to resort to teaming up with an organization they would otherwise not give a crap about.

[MIJB#19]

Strange coincidence that today is exactly 6 months from 9/11.I seriously do not believe in coincidence on this level...
Coincidence is a stupid tv channel over here deciding to broadcast the movie Arlington Road exactly today.

Maybe the ETA and Al-Quada worked together on this?I always thought ETA was primarily targeting political targets and police stations, not "inocent civilians", as hard as this may sound, because every victim of terror is one too much.
From the Dutch NOS (kinda a CNN counterpart): Europol is seriously questioning ETA's possible involvement, but they are on a "no comment" state concidering Al-Qaida.

However, the elections on Sunday make it seem to have "more sense" (as if it can make sense...) to have local terrorists do this violent act.

Watching TVE Internacional really made me feel sorry for the innocent people that died, are hurt, are traumatised or lost family or friends.
The dead toll at 190, but with so many seriously hurt, "we" should be happy to see it not rise to 300 or bigger.

I'd wish to make the Spainsh FOFCers (and others Spaniards) feel better, but how can one in these circumstances...

[SackAttack]

This didn't occur to me until a moment ago, but a friend of mine from high school is studying abroad in Spain right now. I don't know if she's in Madrid or not, but I haven't heard from her in a few days, which worries me a little bit.

Thoughts and prayers for everybody affected, of course, but I'm particularly concerned for her, since that hits home a little bit more for me.

[NoMyths]

Awful, just awful. My thoughts and sympathies are with Spain and its people. :(

[Wolfpack]

When I first heard the story this morning, my first instinct was to rule out ETA because mass slaughter really isn't their style. They always seemed more into assasinations and car bombings that kill in 1s and 2s. By default, that left Al-Qaeda or a splinter of ETA or both as suspects. Judging by items coming out as the day has gone on, it would seem the latter is coming true.

As to Al-Qaeda stepping up to claim, remember the claimants are supposedly a terror group with ties to them. This being the first big hit on a Coalition member since 9/11, and being the first attack against Spain, they may be eager to boast. Al-Qaeda itself hasn't officially claimed it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they come out and say so once the evidence mounts like they eventually did for 9/11 (no matter what Reuters "alleges").

[Vince]

Horrible, horrible stuff. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of Spain on such a sad day.

[CamEdwards]

let me echo those who've offered condolences and sympathy for what your country is now going through. You're in my thoughts and prayers as well.

[Craptacular]

Well, this appears to be the first of a number of attempts to weaken the resolve of US partners against terrorism.

Hopefully, it will only strengthen the unity and resolve of the rest of the world to get rid of these assholes.

[STK]

I found this interesting...

"The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States - and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington."

[Hurst2112]

I found this interesting...

"The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States - and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington."

and Booth shot Lincoln in a theater and ran to a warehouse while Oswald shot Kennedy from a warehouse and ran to a theater. And so on. :p

I heard the 911 days thing on the radio today. I also admit it is kinda spooky.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Except that for almost all the world, september 11th would be written 11/9, not the other way around...

[Wolfpack]

It looks like the terrorist goals for influencing the election seemed to have paid off as Aznar goes down to defeat and the new socialist PM is already announcing Spain will be pulling out of Iraq by the end of June.

[Rizon]

I found this interesting...

"The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States - and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington."

Weird, I figured this would be an urban-legend-in-the-making, but when I counted them out, it was right.

[Leonidas]

Sadly I think the consequences are now we can look forward to strategically timed attacks in Italy, England, Poland, and anywhere else that is allied with us in the war on terror. For the first time in history terrorists have been conceded a political victory based on their actions and they will only be emboldened by it. Neville Chamberlain must be proud.

[fantastic flying froggies]

One year after...
Let us remember all the victims, may they rest in peace...

[Icy]

Rest in pace.
Sad day for us in Spain.

[JeeberD]

+

[Franklinnoble]

Didn't Spain pull out of Iraq in response to this?

[CamEdwards]

BTW, Spanish Muslims issued a fatwa against Osama bin Laden on the one year anniversary of the train bombings. The story is here: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SPAIN_BOMBINGS_FATWA?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Muslim clerics in Spain issued what they called the world's first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden on Thursday, the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the al-Qaida leader.

The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country's 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission represents 200 or so mostly Sunni mosques, or about 70 percent of all mosques in Spain.

The March 11, 2004, train bombings killed 191 people and were claimed in videotapes by militants who said they had acted on al-Qaida's behalf in revenge for Spain's troop deployment in Iraq.

The commission's secretary general, Mansur Escudero, said the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco - home to most of the jailed suspects in the bombings - Algeria and Libya, and had their support.

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"They agree," Escudero said, referring to the Muslim leaders in the three North African countries. "What I want is that they say so publicly."

The fatwa said that according to the Quran "the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al-Qaida ... are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam."

It added: "Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran ... they are committing the crime of 'istihlal' and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such." The Arabic term 'istihlal' refers to the act of making up one's own laws.

Escudero said a fatwa can be issued by any Muslim leader who leads prayer sessions and as he serves such a role, he himself lawfully issued the edict.

He called it an unprecedented condemnation of bin Laden. "We felt now we had the responsibility and obligation to make this declaration," he said in an interview.

"I hope there is a positive reaction from Muslims," he added.

Asked if the edict meant Muslims had to help police try to arrest the world's most wanted man - who is believed to be hiding along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan - Escudero said: "We don't get involved in police affairs but we do feel that all Muslims are obliged to ... keep anyone from doing unjustified damage to other people."


Good for them.

[Dutch]

Didn't Spain pull out of Iraq in response to this?Not really, the people of Spain blamed it on their pro-Bush/Democratic government (instead of or equally with terrorists) and ousted them by voting anti-US/Socialist.

And the ensuing anti-American government abandoned the coalition as promised if elected.

(EDIT: Oh, and when I first saw this thread I though, "Oh no....not again.")

[Crapshoot]

Not really, the people of Spain blamed it on their pro-Bush/Democratic government (instead of or equally with terrorists) and ousted them by voting anti-US/Socialist.

And the ensuing anti-American government abandoned the coalition as promised if elected.

Bull.You're showing an absolute disregard for the facts- damnit, people who disagree with the US are not by definition terrorist sympathisers or appeasers.

The people in Spain were angry that the Spanish government initially tried to pin it on ETA, and its banned political wing Bastuana - when all evidence pointed to an Al-Queda (or alternative grouP) being behind it - Aznar was trying to get political capital out of it to further crush the Basque fringe, and he got punished for it. If anything, he would have won if they had identified the correct terrorists in the first place.

Lastly, withdrawing the troops out of a war than 80% of the Spanish public opposed seems like a good thing to do - what happened to democracy there ?

[Dutch]

Bull.You're showing an absolute disregard for the facts- damnit, people who disagree with the US are not by definition terrorist sympathisers or appeasers.The facts are that Aznar was in popular enough to win before the terrorist strike, not popular enough to win afterwards. I'm sure the terrorists aren't getting into the nitty gritty of what happened either.

The people in Spain were angry that the Spanish government initially tried to pin it on ETA, and its banned political wing Bastuana - when all evidence pointed to an Al-Queda (or alternative grouP) being behind it - Aznar was trying to get political capital out of it to further crush the Basque fringe, and he got punished for it. If anything, he would have won if they had identified the correct terrorists in the first place.The terrorists got what they wanted.

Lastly, withdrawing the troops out of a war than 80% of the Spanish public opposed seems like a good thing to do - what happened to democracy there ?Most everybody opposes the war. I oppose this war. But I oppose the terrorists methods (and those who harbor/support terrorists) and their agenda more.

[Klinglerware]

The facts are that Aznar was in popular enough to win before the terrorist strike, not popular enough to win afterwards. I'm sure the terrorists aren't getting into the nitty gritty of what happened either.

The terrorists got what they wanted.



Do you really think that the terrorist strike in and of itself brought Aznar down? The Spanish public saw right through the "let's bring ETA down now, and deal with the facts later" politicizing of the incident, and Aznar paid the price. People don't like it when political calculation is so naked...

[cartman]

Do you really think that the terrorist strike in and of itself brought Aznar down? The Spanish public saw right through the "let's bring ETA down now, and deal with the facts later" politicizing of the incident, and Aznar paid the price. People don't like it when political calculation is so naked...

Yep, our Spanish friends on the board confirmed this. They were saying that even before the attack, that the race was going to be close. The people (rightly) suspected that they were being lied to about the reasons for going into Iraq, and they were upset about that. When they were lied to about this, and even when the evidence was pointing directly to Al-Qaeda, Aznar and his crew kept pounding home the fact that it was the Basques.

The reason they voted in Zapatero was not because they acquiesed to terrorists, or wanted to be against the US, they wanted accountability in their government, and to be able to trust what they were being told by their elected leaders.

[Franklinnoble]

The terrorists got what they wanted.


Bottom line.

Make all the excuses you want about accountability in the Spanish government, etc. But at the end of the day, the fuckers at Al Quaeda are slapping themselves on the back and strutting around thinking they really put one over on Spain.

[Klinglerware]

Bottom line.

Make all the excuses you want about accountability in the Spanish government, etc. But at the end of the day, the fuckers at Al Quaeda are slapping themselves on the back and strutting around thinking they really put one over on Spain.

No. If Aznar just let the investigation lead where it was supposed to, there still would be Spanish troops in Iraq, with the strong support of the Spanish people. Look at all the virulent anti-ETA feelings in the early posts in this thread: the Spanish government managed to galvanize Spain and the world against ETA. That galvanization could have been against al-Qaeda if Aznar played his cards right...

[dawgfan]

Good for them.

Agreed. Hopefully we'll see more of this throughout the Islamic world.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Agreed. Hopefully we'll see more of this throughout the Islamic world.

I concur. It is about time that Muslim leaders step forward and condem acts that are commited in the name of their religion. If I have a brother who is going around killing people supposedly for me, and I have absolutly nothing to say I look guilty by association and seem to condone the actions.

[Dutch]

No. If Aznar just let the investigation lead where it was supposed to, there still would be Spanish troops in Iraq, with the strong support of the Spanish people. Look at all the virulent anti-ETA feelings in the early posts in this thread: the Spanish government managed to galvanize Spain and the world against ETA. That galvanization could have been against al-Qaeda if Aznar played his cards right...
The Al Qaeda blew up a mosque full of people this week. How many people were so outraged by this as to want to support the fight against terrorism?

On a related note, the same US/UK/Polish Army guys that were there last week are still there. No new faces arrived. Thankfully nobody left!

Again, is Aznar or his government perfect? No. If the terrorists never bombed Madrid, Aznar would still be there. That who should be rightly blamed.

[Dutch]

That assumption isn't valid. As our Spanish posters on this board have said, the momentum before the bombings was moving away from Aznar. It was not a lock that he was going to be re-elected.
Tell that the the Al Qaeda.

[cartman]

Again, is Aznar or his government perfect? No. If the terrorists never bombed Madrid, Aznar would still be there. That who should be rightly blamed.

That assumption isn't valid. As our Spanish posters on this board have said, the momentum before the bombings was moving away from Aznar. It was not a lock that he was going to be re-elected.

[Klinglerware]

Tell that the the Al Qaeda.

huh?

[Dutch]

huh?
Explain to the Al Qaeda that their bombing of a Madrid Subway to force a different outcome in the Spanish Election really had nothing to do with them bombing a Madrid Subway.

They are claiming victory. Tell them they don't deserve to claim victory in Spain.

[cartman]

Explain to the Al Qaeda that their bombing of a Madrid Subway to force a different outcome in the Spanish Election really had nothing to do with them bombing a Madrid Subway.

They are claiming victory. Tell them they don't deserve to claim victory in Spain.

You are giving Al-Qaeda too much credit. They were going to do the bombing no matter what. They don't care who is the leader of Spain, or any other non-Arab country for that matter. Anyone not adhering to their beliefs is an infidel, so they would claim victory no matter who ended up winning the election. The election was just a ruse to get more attention paid to their attack.

But since it was a US-friendly government that lost in the election, it was just automatically assumed that this was a victory for the terrorists, which is like saying that slavery was the only cause of the US Civil War. There were a lot more dynamics going on than the little bit we heard about.

[Klinglerware]

Explain to the Al Qaeda that their bombing of a Madrid Subway to force a different outcome in the Spanish Election really had nothing to do with them bombing a Madrid Subway.

They are claiming victory. Tell them they don't deserve to claim victory in Spain.

If that is why Al Qaeda bombed a Madrid train station then they are dumb. Public opinion almost always swings in favor of the government in power when there is a attack on the homeland, terrorist or not. Look at Bush's approval ratings after the September 11 attacks.

Who knows, maybe Al Qaeda really did do it in order to influence the election. In that case, they got lucky and got a major assist from Aznar's bungling of the whole affair...

[Dutch]

Al Qeada is a lot smarter than we give them credit. They do, in fact, know exactly what they are doing. That's what makes them more formidable than anyone expected. Everything they do is done after months or years of planning. And there is no way for conventional governments to really fight them other than to accept the fact that they are parasites that feed off of weak governments. The only real chance for quick success is to remove those weak governments from the equation. (i.e. regime change)

[Klinglerware]

Al Qeada is a lot smarter than we give them credit.

I know they're pretty smart. That is why I am saying that the attack probably had little to do with influencing the Spanish election--they probably had to know that their attack would probably keep Aznar in power. So whatever reason they did it, I doubt it was to get him thrown out of office...

[Dutch]

I guess I can see how you might see it that way. But I would disagree with the logic. I would suggest that it was designed to prove to the Spanish populace (and the world)that fighting Al Qaeda has done nothing and continued resistance is futile.

That's how they sell it and I tend to agree that they got more than they could ask for. It was a huge embarrassment to the USA when Spain pulled out of Iraq, afterall.

But if the plan was to attack to keep anti-terror parties in power, then it would seem logical for the terrorists to stop the bombing against US forces in Iraq during the US elections. But that simply wasn't the case. They continued in an effort to prove to the US population that they weren't backing down and that we should be electing Kerry. And they stepped up the bombing leading to the Iraqi elections.

While we have under-estimated their resolve, perhaps they have under-estimated our resolve as well (with exception to Spain)?

Bombings have been used so far in hopes of breaking the will of the west, not to keep anti-terrorism governments in power. In my honest opinion.

[Klinglerware]

While we have under-estimated their resolve, perhaps they have under-estimated our resolve as well



That's a very good point--it happens in every conflict...



Bombings have been used so far in hopes of breaking the will of the west, not to keep anti-terrorism governments in power. In my honest opinion.

Yes, that's true. But the whole "keep anti-terrorism governments in power" is not what I was arguing. I said that "they probably had to know that their attack would probably keep Aznar in power". It does not necessarily follow logically that al-Qaeda wanted to keep Aznar in power.

What I am arguing is that in the Spanish case, logically al-Qaeda's objective could not have been to influence the election, since public opinion never swings the terrorist's way when attacking the homeland. I agree with you in that the more long-term "breaking the will of the west" is a more likely objective for an attack like that. That they achieved a tactical victory in the short run (the Aznar electoral defeat), was icing on the cake which had more to do with Aznar than al-Qaeda...

[Dutch]

Fair enough, I can accept that reasoning.

[Glengoyne]

I know they're pretty smart. That is why I am saying that the attack probably had little to do with influencing the Spanish election--they probably had to know that their attack would probably keep Aznar in power. So whatever reason they did it, I doubt it was to get him thrown out of office...

I heard a Spanish Journalist on NPR this morning. He said that believing that The train bombing was related to Spanish Presense in Iraq is a very common misconception. The group was apparently protesting the arrest of the Spanish head of Al Qaeda the year before.

[dawgfan]

I concur. It is about time that Muslim leaders step forward and condem acts that are commited in the name of their religion. If I have a brother who is going around killing people supposedly for me, and I have absolutly nothing to say I look guilty by association and seem to condone the actions.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure there were Muslim leaders denouncing the 9/11 attacks after they happened, but I believe this is the first time something as serious as a fatwah has been issued as a response.

The moderates in the Muslim world need to reclaim their religion from the extremists that have been giving them all a bad name.

[Dutch]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure there were Muslim leaders denouncing the 9/11 attacks after they happened, but I believe this is the first time something as serious as a fatwah has been issued as a response.

The moderates in the Muslim world need to reclaim their religion from the extremists that have been giving them all a bad name.
If the western newspapers are calling these suicide bombers "insurgents", I can assure you that a vast majority of the people in the middle east haven't a clue that what the terrorists are doing in Iraq is bad for their religion. Mass Media is a powerful tool is wielded by one side over the other.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Ok is this current news or one from last year?

[DaddyTorgo]

last year chemical

[Dutch]

last year chemical
It's the anniversary.