Warren Sapp a Raider

[yabanci]

As a fan of both Warren Sapp and the Raiders, I'm really happy about this. I know there are a lot of reasons to criticize the move, but I think it will be another veteran signing that works out well for the Raiders. It will be interesting to see Sapp and Ted "Mount" Washington playing next to one another.

Sapp ends nine-year tenure with Buccaneers

Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. -- Seven-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle Warren Sapp signed a seven-year, $36.6 million contract with the Oakland Raiders on Saturday, ending his nine-year relationship with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.


Sapp

"The bad news is I won't be back with the Bucs," Sapp said by telephone from Miami. "The good news is I'm a Raider."

The surprise move came only a day after Sapp's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said the one-time NFL defensive player of the year was close to signing a four-year deal with the Cincinnati Bengals.

Sapp will receive a $7 million signing bonus. He earned $6.6 million last year in the final season of a six-year, $36 million contract he signed in 1998.

Earlier this month, the 31-year-old tackle said he was optimistic about the prospect of re-signing with the Bucs. But that changed when his old team failed to make him an offer during the first week of the free agency period.

Sapp joined the Bucs as first-round draft pick out of Miami in 1995 and -- along with linebacker Derrick Brooks and safety John Lynch -- helped transform the Bucs from a laughingstock into Super Bowl champions.

Lynch was released last week after 11 seasons with Tampa Bay, a move that cleared about $4 million under the NFL salary cap.

Sapp leaves the only pro team he has played for two sacks shy of the franchise record of 78½ held by Hall of Famer Lee Roy Selmon.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1764268

[Dutch]

Sometimes I just don't know who the Buccaneers are anymore.

It's the worst part about free agency. In everything that is to be gained by freeing up 10 million dollars a year between the loss of Lynch and Sapp....it just seems wierd that they aren't Bucs anymore.

Oh well, I guess I should be getting excited that Galloway will be a Buc for 1 year. Woopdie, Doo.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... stolen from the Bengals. Though I think Cincy will not see that as a bad thing in the upcoming years. Sapp, while a good player, is overpaid these days.

[Dutch]

He is overpaid for his skill level, but not on his value to the league. I still think they should have a cap on loyal vets in the NFL. If a player is around for 8+ years and never switched teams they should be waived from counting more than minimum wage for veterans on the cap list. So if a 8-year DT is required to be paid 750k per year, and he fits into the "loyal player" category, he can sign a 5-yr 50 million dollar deal (for example) and only cound for 750k per season.

The main thing to me, the entertained viewer, when I see Warren Sapp play 12 years as a Buccaneer, and then retire as a Buccaneer, the Bucs fans get all the hoopla that goes along with it. Now, as it will be, he will retire from the league quietly 4 or 5 years from now on a team he has no association with.

It's kind of sad how many great players are quickly forgotten after they leave the team that people identified them with.

[Craptacular]

He is overpaid for his skill level, but not on his value to the league. I still think they should have a cap on loyal vets in the NFL. If a player is around for 8+ years and never switched teams they should be waived from counting more than minimum wage for veterans on the cap list. So if a 8-year DT is required to be paid 750k per year, and he fits into the "loyal player" category, he can sign a 5-yr 50 million dollar deal (for example) and only cound for 750k per season.


No no no no no no no no no.

No no.






No.

We need to stop the NFL from further degrading into the NBA.

[Craptacular]

dola ...just so you know, I like the spirit of your idea (to help keep loyal players on their teams)

[yabanci]

The Raiders let Rod Coleman go and Atlanta gave him a $10 million bonus. I'd rather see the Raiders paying Sapp than Coleman.

[Dutch]

Craptacular,

You realize that you gave me a 180 on your dola and I have no idea which one to respond to now.

On my end I read, "No, No, No, No, No, No....Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes."

I'm so confused... :)

[QuikSand]

I'm with Craptacular. No. Nice sentiment, but you just can't start "excluding" real contracts from the cap - you end up with a sham, a joke, a...um... well, like he said, the NBA. ::shiver::

[QuikSand]

More general question... what is it that the Raiders want to do with this team? I'm assuming that Sapp's deal amounts to two or three years and then a punt. Do the Raiders have a plan to put themselves into contention for the next couple of years? I have the impression (a common one, I'd hazard to guess) that they are hopelessly old and cap-strapped... am I mistaken?

[oykib]

...am I mistaken?


Al Davis thinks you are.

[sterlingice]

As a fan of both Warren Sapp and the Raiders, I'm really happy about this.
As someone who doesn't like the Raiders or Warren Sapp, I love this ;)

SI

[Craptacular]

Craptacular,

You realize that you gave me a 180 on your dola and I have no idea which one to respond to now.

On my end I read, "No, No, No, No, No, No....Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes."

I'm so confused... :)

QuikSand understood what I was getting at. In general, I'd love to see ways to improve a player's loyalty to his team... and teams' loyalty to their players for that matter. However, if you're going to have a cap, then have a cap. The NFL already gave the small exception for veteran players (one or two years ago), and I'd hate to see them allow more ways to circumvent the cap.

[Greyroofoo]

I like the loyal player idea, but it should be something like only 75% of the player's salary counts against the cap, not just the minimum

[Dutch]

I'm with Craptacular. No. Nice sentiment, but you just can't start "excluding" real contracts from the cap - you end up with a sham, a joke, a...um... well, like he said, the NBA. ::shiver::

I watch about 4 NBA games a year, I don't even know what kind of system the NBA has, nor did I realize that most people hated the NBA because of it's roster management situation.

[Axxon]

He is overpaid for his skill level, but not on his value to the league. I still think they should have a cap on loyal vets in the NFL. If a player is around for 8+ years and never switched teams they should be waived from counting more than minimum wage for veterans on the cap list. So if a 8-year DT is required to be paid 750k per year, and he fits into the "loyal player" category, he can sign a 5-yr 50 million dollar deal (for example) and only cound for 750k per season.

The main thing to me, the entertained viewer, when I see Warren Sapp play 12 years as a Buccaneer, and then retire as a Buccaneer, the Bucs fans get all the hoopla that goes along with it. Now, as it will be, he will retire from the league quietly 4 or 5 years from now on a team he has no association with.

It's kind of sad how many great players are quickly forgotten after they leave the team that people identified them with.

I'm pretty sad about this, especially Lynch but to be fair, he was willing to accept the vet minimum but he wanted to be a starter and the Bucs told him he wouldn't be. That's why John left, not cap implications. He is a true Buccaneer for life. Did you hear him breaking up at the press conference? He just thinks he still has something left in the tank and the Bucs don't.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Oh well, I guess I should be getting excited that Galloway will be a Buc for 1 year. Woopdie, Doo.

You should be glad you only have to put up with his 2 patterns and his tendency to miss games with hangnails for only one year.

[QuikSand]

I watch about 4 NBA games a year, I don't even know what kind of system the NBA has, nor did I realize that most people hated the NBA because of it's roster management situation.

I wouldn't go that far... there are any number of reasons to hate the NBA.

But the modern NBA, with its guaranteed contracts and its weirdo pseudo-salcap just makes for ridiculous transactions, where teams have to all sorts of absurd "slotting" of players and the cap exceptions completely govern what teams can pay what amount for players. It's a dumbfoundingly stupid system.

[Craptacular]

I watch about 4 NBA games a year, I don't even know what kind of system the NBA has, nor did I realize that most people hated the NBA because of it's roster management situation.

I now watch about 0.5 NBA games per year. The NBA has such fun exceptions as the "Larry Bird", the "Early Bird", the "Non-Bird", the "Million Dollar", the "Mid-Level", and so on. The Larry Bird exception is the big one, which allows teams to exceed the salary cap when signing their own free agents, as long as those players have gone three years without changing teams through waivers or free agency. They CAN be traded while allowing the new team to use the Bird exception. The exceptions are a big reason why there are so many "sign-and-trade" deals in the NBA, and why so many trades involve multiple teams and players.

[Buccaneer]

I watch about 4 NBA games a year, I don't even know what kind of system the NBA has, nor did I realize that most people hated the NBA because of it's roster management situation.
As QS said, the hatred goes much further than that.

[yabanci]

Talk about setting people up to be disappointed..... I was reading this story from this morning's edition of the Cincinnati Enquirer:


The Bengals are close to a deal with Warren Sapp.

Drew Rosenhaus, agent for the seven-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle, said late Friday that the Bengals are the "frontrunner."

"We're close. We don't have an agreement yet, but we're getting close," Rosenhaus said.

Sapp, 31, was going to sleep on the offer overnight Friday. He could agree to terms of a four-year contract as early as today.

Signing Sapp would be the most important acquisition by the Bengals since NFL free agency started in 1993. His celebrity transcends football. Sapp would bring his larger-than-life personality to Cincinnati and give the Bengals their highest-profile player since quarterback Boomer Esiason in the late 1980s.

Putting Sapp in Bengals stripes also would add a new degree of legitimacy to the Bengals' rebuilding efforts.


It sounds like the Enquirer was really hoping to use the Sapp signing to sell some papers.


http://bengals.enquirer.com/2004/03/20/ben1a.html

[Fritz]

Money is not the only reason the Buccs let those guys go. When a team lets a long term vet go, it is because of something else. they want to turn the page and don;t feel they can with that guy around.

If the Buccs felt Sapp or Lynch were still valuable (or worth their asking price anyhow), they would have let some other guy go and kept them.

[Dutch]

I now watch about 0.5 NBA games per year. The NBA has such fun exceptions as the "Larry Bird", the "Early Bird", the "Non-Bird", the "Million Dollar", the "Mid-Level", and so on. The Larry Bird exception is the big one, which allows teams to exceed the salary cap when signing their own free agents, as long as those players have gone three years without changing teams through waivers or free agency. They CAN be traded while allowing the new team to use the Bird exception. The exceptions are a big reason why there are so many "sign-and-trade" deals in the NBA, and why so many trades involve multiple teams and players.

That is horrible. I think I am understanding why my suggestion was not thought of with much enthusiasm.

[Mo.Raider]

More general question... what is it that the Raiders want to do with this team? I'm assuming that Sapp's deal amounts to two or three years and then a punt. Do the Raiders have a plan to put themselves into contention for the next couple of years? I have the impression (a common one, I'd hazard to guess) that they are hopelessly old and cap-strapped... am I mistaken?

There are many reporters who find it fashionable to paint the Raiders into a hopeless corner every year. But the fact is they are not cap strapped, and in fact have a pretty talented group of young players coming up that blends well with the newest additions. The Raiders use the phrase reload, not rebuild, and except for a dry run in the 90's have used this philosophy of picking up supposedly over the hill key acquisitions very well (Lyle Alzado etc.). Of course I just might be biased in my thinking. :)

[AgPete]

The more things change, the more Al Davis stays the same. :)

[albionmoonlight]

It is also worth noting that the recent small exception to the salary cap--in which teams can pay veterans the league minimum, but the vets actually receive more money--is a very small exception.

Both the cap hit and the money that the team pays are the veteran minimum. The extra pay comes from a pool that the league established and does not come from the bottom line of the team. (In case you were wondering, the pool of money comes from not increasing the rookie pool allotment every year like they did in the past.) In this manner, teams can use this "exception" equally, regardless of their financial situation. It's almost more of a league payment to veterans than any sort of a cap exception.

The NFL will be going down a bad road if/when they ever start making exceptions to the cap that come out of team pockets. In that world, big money teams will have an advantage over small money teams, and the specter of the Yankees hovers in the shadows.

[damnMikeBrown]

I just thought of another angle to this, while I was out lifting.

The whole Raiders/Balco scandal. We haven't really heard much about it, because, well, people expect football players to be on steroids, and football is out of season. They had 4 guys tied up in that, and those are only the ones we know about so far.

Say whatever you want about Sapp, but nobody will every accuse 'ol flubber ass of being on roids.

[Franklinnoble]

Wow... yet ANOTHER case in support of the "Jerk Magnet Theory." How many more of these signings do we need to scientifically elevate this phenomenon to the title of "Jerk Magnet Law"?

[Rhone Ranger]

I can see it now. Just a few months ago, Al Davis and his minions were pacing around in whatever circle of hell they inhabit, musing. Al Davis spoke up:

"Fellas, we went 4-12 this year. We stink. The players hate each other, there's a mutiny against the coach, and I'm as mad as a hatter. What are we gonna do?

I have a plan:

1. We need to get older, especially on defense.
2. There's too much harmony in our locker room. We need more disruptive influences, something to shake up the place.
3. For god's sake get rid of that talented running back, what's his name, you know, Garner.
4. This team needs excitement. If you can find players who know how to throw their helmets or bump referees or Beyonce-jiggle in the end zone with authority, you're authorized to pay them unlimited signing bonuses.
5. Sign more players who duplicate their roles, for greater redundancy and inefficiency, for example, two great big fat old defensive tackles. A regulation field isn't wide enough for them to play side by side! But that's OK, we'll sue the NFL to change that."


So far I'd say they're right on track... :D

[Axxon]

2. There's too much harmony in our locker room. We need more disruptive influences, something to shake up the place.


Unless the league officials or referees or Keyshawn Johnson are in the locker room, they picked the wrong guy then. Warren is a lot of things but he's not a locker room cancer in any way, shape or form.

[GrantDawg]

5. Sign more players who duplicate their roles, for greater redundancy and inefficiency, for example, two great big fat old defensive tackles. A regulation field isn't wide enough for them to play side by side! But that's OK, we'll sue the NFL to change that."
?

Washington and Sapp are far from the same players. Washington weighs in at 360-370 and Sapp at 300-310. Sapp plays at the more "finesse" side of the interior line, whereas Washington is the big, fat run blocker. They actually completement each other pretty well (on the field I mean. In person, I have no idea :)).

That is not to say this is a good deal for the Raiders. It does seem like they are banking a lot of money on two guys at the end of their careers to anchor the defense. Then again, it worked on offence (Gannon and Rice) at least for the a while.

[The_herd]

I can see it now. Just a few months ago, Al Davis and his minions were pacing around in whatever circle of hell they inhabit, musing. Al Davis spoke up:

"Fellas, we went 4-12 this year. We stink. The players hate each other, there's a mutiny against the coach, and I'm as mad as a hatter. What are we gonna do?

I have a plan:

1. We need to get older, especially on defense.
2. There's too much harmony in our locker room. We need more disruptive influences, something to shake up the place.
3. For god's sake get rid of that talented running back, what's his name, you know, Garner.
4. This team needs excitement. If you can find players who know how to throw their helmets or bump referees or Beyonce-jiggle in the end zone with authority, you're authorized to pay them unlimited signing bonuses.
5. Sign more players who duplicate their roles, for greater redundancy and inefficiency, for example, two great big fat old defensive tackles. A regulation field isn't wide enough for them to play side by side! But that's OK, we'll sue the NFL to change that."


So far I'd say they're right on track... :D


This isn't quite what I was thinking, but close. It appears Davis really doesn't have a plan for this offseason, just winging it. This contract goes 2, maybe 3 years at a max, so Al has basically decided that the oldest team in football has 2-3 more good years left. All he's doing is postponing the inevitable.

I haven't seen many young, promising players on the Raiders yet. Fargas hasn't showed anything in games, Tuiasowhateverthehell isn't the answer at QB, and I've yet to see why so many Raider fans think he's good. Jerry Porter is as nice and funny a guy as you could meet, but since he arrived at WVU as the "best athlete in school history", he's yet to find his role with a team. He had a good 2002 when Rice and Brown were still catching passes and drawing double teams, last year he was injured, but even when healthy he didn't do anything. Buchannon should change his name to "toast", because thats what he was more often than not in 2003.

The free agency era isn't an era for reloading, and I don't think Davis has got the memo on that. At best, the Raiders can hope for a 9-7 season and maybe sqeeze into the playoffs. Its more likely, however, that they break down at some point and finish somewhere along the lines of 5-11.

[Rhone Ranger]

?

Washington and Sapp are far from the same players. Washington weighs in at 360-370 and Sapp at 300-310. Sapp plays at the more "finesse" side of the interior line, whereas Washington is the big, fat run blocker. They actually completement each other pretty well (on the field I mean. In person, I have no idea :)).

That is not to say this is a good deal for the Raiders. It does seem like they are banking a lot of money on two guys at the end of their careers to anchor the defense. Then again, it worked on offence (Gannon and Rice) at least for the a while.

Washington is the prototypical tackle for the 3-4 alignment. The guy is huge and strong.

But these characteristics make him less suited for the 4-3. He has quickness but at his size he lacks speed and has extremely limited ability to pass-rush.

Putting Washington and Sapp on the field at the same time pretty much means the Raiders need to be in a 4-3 (i.e. two tackles on the field, not just one) and the 4-3 isn't the best way to use Washington. So having Sapp and Washington together isn't the best way to maximize either player.

It's conceivable that Sapp could be sent to DE in a 3-4 alignment with Washington playing NT, but again that's switching a guy (Sapp in this case) away from his best position, plus it doesn't seem that the Raiders have enough LBs to run the 3-4 anyway.

[GrantDawg]

Washington is the prototypical tackle for the 3-4 alignment. The guy is huge and strong.

But these characteristics make him less suited for the 4-3. He has quickness but at his size he lacks speed and has extremely limited ability to pass-rush.

Putting Washington and Sapp on the field at the same time pretty much means the Raiders need to be in a 4-3 (i.e. two tackles on the field, not just one) and the 4-3 isn't the best way to use Washington. So having Sapp and Washington together isn't the best way to maximize either player.

It's conceivable that Sapp could be sent to DE in a 3-4 alignment with Washington playing NT, but again that's switching a guy (Sapp in this case) away from his best position, plus it doesn't seem that the Raiders have enough LBs to run the 3-4 anyway.
Dude, you said they are both the same "type" player, not that Washington is a 3-4 player. All I said was you are wrong. I disagree that a 360+ guy can't play in the 4-3, but that isn't what you said to start with.

[airulf]

I am curious about the signing of Warren Sapp too.

New defensive coordinator Rob Ryan is planning on using the 3-4 defense much of the time. Thats why they signed Ted Washington, probably the best true nose tackle out there.

What Warren Sapp is doing in that mix, I don't know. Will he move to end in the 3-4?

[GrantDawg]

Qoute from ESPN: Just as important for the Raiders' coaches was the feeling that Sapp would be a good fit in their defense. Sapp will be paired with another free agent acquisition, nose tackle Ted Washington, and so will be able to continue playing the "three technique" or "under" position so familiar to him. Since the mammoth Washington figures to draw a lot of double-team blocking, Sapp, who will be aligned in the center-guard gap, ought to have plenty of room to maneuver.

He'll be playing the same position as he did in Tampa.

[Dutch]

Qoute from ESPN: Just as important for the Raiders' coaches was the feeling that Sapp would be a good fit in their defense. Sapp will be paired with another free agent acquisition, nose tackle Ted Washington, and so will be able to continue playing the "three technique" or "under" position so familiar to him. Since the mammoth Washington figures to draw a lot of double-team blocking, Sapp, who will be aligned in the center-guard gap, ought to have plenty of room to maneuver.

He'll be playing the same position as he did in Tampa.

Sound similar to Sapp in the Cover-2. McFarland and Sapp plugging the middle and Culpepper before McFarland. All day long, and let a speed DE get single coverage on the outside....lights out. But that was yesteryear. Not sure if the gas tank is still full.

[Rhone Ranger]

Dude, you said they are both the same "type" player, not that Washington is a 3-4 player. All I said was you are wrong. I disagree that a 360+ guy can't play in the 4-3, but that isn't what you said to start with.

Well, what I started off saying was just joking around. :)

But please note that I didn't say that they are both the same type of player, as you think I said. I said they're redundant which is close but not the same thing.

If the Raiders want to play a 3-4 - and picking up a classic nose tackle like Washington strongly suggests that - then Sapp becomes redundant (or picking up Sapp makes Washington redundant, whichever way you want to look at it) because there's only one tackle on the field at a time.

It's possible (even probable?) that the Raiders will stick with the 4-3 though, in which case it comes down to whether Washington is appropriate for that style of defense. You think he is, and I think not. There's no way to settle that except to see how the season plays out, so I won't say any more. :)

[Sun Tzu]

Even more reason for me to dislike both parties involved. Sapp is awful against the run, which should make it even easier now for people to stomp the chokeland faders.

[rkmsuf]

The plan is to switch between a 3-4 and 46 style defense. Sapp will be used primarily as a pass rusher and play like 30 snaps a game.

If the Raiders do this effectively as much as he is a dickwad, Sapp may get double digit sacks...

[Rhone Ranger]

The plan is to switch between a 3-4 and 46 style defense. Sapp will be used primarily as a pass rusher and play like 30 snaps a game.

If the Raiders do this effectively as much as he is a dickwad, Sapp may get double digit sacks...

:D

So is the plan to have Washington and Sapp spell one another, so Washington plays NT in run situations and Sapp plays NT in passing situations? Boy, that's a lot of money to invest in just one position (but two players).

Or does Sapp switch to DE?

[rkmsuf]

:D

So is the plan to have Washington and Sapp spell one another, so Washington plays NT in run situations and Sapp plays NT in passing situations? Boy, that's a lot of money to invest in just one position (but two players).

Or does Sapp switch to DE?

If they are both in then Sapp goes to DE in the 3-4 which won't happen much since they are going to play some 46 defense.

Overall I heard Sapp's mission will be to rush the QB...

[The_herd]

If they are both in then Sapp goes to DE in the 3-4 which won't happen much since they are going to play some 46 defense.

Overall I heard Sapp's mission will be to rush the QB...

Thats what his mission was in 2001 when he predicted that he would break the sack record, he finished with 6. Sapp doesn't have the speed to get to the QB from DT anymore. Sliding over to DE in a 3-4 isn't going to help that.

[rkmsuf]

Thats what his mission was in 2001 when he predicted that he would break the sack record, he finished with 6. Sapp doesn't have the speed to get to the QB from DT anymore. Sliding over to DE in a 3-4 isn't going to help that.

That could be true...I only heard the plan...

I do think that, as much as he'a dink, he'll be ultra motivated to produce this year...

[The_herd]

That could be true...I only heard the plan...

I do think that, as much as he'a dink, he'll be ultra motivated to produce this year...

If that plan is true, it looks like they are trying to use him in a way somewhat similar to how they used Trace Armstrong a couple years ago. However, at this stage in their careers, Trace was better at getting to the QB, and didn't have a contract this big.

[rkmsuf]

I'm not really concerned with the contract. Sapp will play hard; I see the contract working in reverse and he'll have something to prove so to speak. That view kind of flies in the face of the fact he's a jerk but just a hunch.

Talentwise I'm not sure where he's at...

[cwilloughby]

As a devoted Raider fan, I kinda internally wanted him to come to the silver and black. I don't think he is going to help our attitudes about penalties and fair play though. Of course, I don't think those will ever change while Al Davis is around anyway :).