FBCB: NCAA Championship With Savannah State!

[Ben E Lou]

[stevew]

Man, if only you had a stud Shot blocker.

[Ben E Lou]

CHAMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1 vs. #2 in the final game. We jumped out to a 9-0 lead, led by 20 at the half, and cruised to a 109-92 win!

[Axxon]

Nice work.

I just finished my first season with Savannah State and ended up 10-19. I used your strategy for scheduling which I'd never tried before and it worked like a charm. Thanks for the tips.

I kinda hybridized your recruiting with mine and ended up with the 85th best class which totally shocked me. How does that jibe with your early results? It seems pretty good. They're all 3 star players and all are local but they all have stats that seem to belie their star ratings. Time will tell I guess.

I'm sure I won't have the dedication to the team that you had but it's going to be a fun ride. Your Savannah State team is my favorite non dynasty dynasty and I'm sure a lot of us wish you'd have made it an official dynasty but you wouldn't have gotten as far.

[Ben E Lou]

Nice work.

I just finished my first season with Savannah State and ended up 10-19. I used your strategy for scheduling which I'd never tried before and it worked like a charm. Thanks for the tips.

I kinda hybridized your recruiting with mine and ended up with the 85th best class which totally shocked me. How does that jibe with your early results? It seems pretty good. They're all 3 star players and all are local but they all have stats that seem to belie their star ratings. Time will tell I guess.

I'm sure I won't have the dedication to the team that you had but it's going to be a fun ride. Your Savannah State team is my favorite non dynasty dynasty and I'm sure a lot of us wish you'd have made it an official dynasty but you wouldn't have gotten as far.Those are better than my early results recruiting. I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing early on, and I'm sure I made some mistakes. I don't think I got a Top 100 class until I was 5-10 seasons in. I also didn't think through scheduling that much until I was around that far in as well. My guess is that you'll do better earlier, especially with a solid recruiting class. I think my two biggest early mistakes were both around scheduling:

1. Getting "too big for my britches" and scheduling too many good teams. Those first few seasons should be spent playing as many single-digit prestige teams as possible, with a few blowout losses thrown in to help player development along.

2. Getting impatient with scheduling 28 games every year and letting the computer handle it. I noticed a big difference between doing it myself and letting the computer handle it.

Now the big question for me is: What next? I'm still in a freakin' Level 2 Conference, but I've won it all. I guess the next step is becoming a perennial Sweet 16 team and/or getting into a better conference. I'm curious as to whether I'll reach a point of boredom with success.

[Axxon]

2. Getting impatient with scheduling 28 games every year and letting the computer handle it. I noticed a big difference between doing it myself and letting the computer handle it.


Tell me about it. I was doing this for the most part and getting nowhere. I was letting the computer schedule my games and me playing them. I did the old switcheroo and had a much more fun season. I did play the first eight of my games after the four blowouts.

Won the first two then lost the next six. I let my assistants take care of THAT from then on. :D

I needed to do it though. It let me know what kind of team I had so I could more properly plan my gameplan which is hard for me to do just looking at ratings. Give me a few games in the trenches and I can do it just fine.

[Axxon]

I didn't write the original post quite right.

What I meant was I believe the recruiting may well be unrealistically good in two ways.

1. The worst team in the nation shouldn't be landing 4 3-star players if they really are three star players.

2. 4 3-star players shouldn't be ranked as the 85th best class should they?

I know that scouting affects my judgement but these guys ranked BETTER than I thought they were.

Am I missing something about how recruiting works? It seems like it wass just a bit too easy. Now, I know that assuedly this seasons class is going to reach up and bite me in the butt for saying that. :)

[Ben E Lou]

Oh...and the other thing that many have said, and I agree with: redshirt whenever possible. This means *ALWAYS* until you're having to fulfill an expectation. Even then, I only will play a true freshman if I need him to start, not just back up. I just discovered around 10-15 seasons ago that you can remove the redshirt tag during the season and play a guy in an emergency. The beauty of this game is that there are real-life-type flexibility options. For example, if at a given position you have a decent Junior or Senior starter, a horrid backup, and a decent true freshman, I've found that the best thing to do is maximize the time spent on the starter's endurance training, slow down the pace, and give the starter max playing time, while red-shirting the freshman. This will allow the starter to be on the floor as much as possible, tiring less because of the slower pace and his improved endurance. If you're in a must-win-this-season situation and the starter gets hurt for a significant amount of time, then and only then is it a good idea to play the true freshman.

[Ben E Lou]

I didn't write the original post quite right.

What I meant was I believe the recruiting may well be unrealistically good in two ways.

1. The worst team in the nation shouldn't be landing 4 3-star players if they really are three star players.

2. 4 3-star players shouldn't be ranked as the 85th best class should they?

I know that scouting affects my judgement but these guys ranked BETTER than I thought they were.

Am I missing something about how recruiting works? It seems like it wass just a bit too easy. Now, I know that assuedly this seasons class is going to reach up and bite me in the butt for saying that. :)1. Generally true, but there is a rather wide range of a 3-star players. Didn't count them all, but just glancing down I'm guessing that there are over 200 of them per season, and some of them aren't good at all once you scout them. The AI seems to do a pretty good job of avoiding the 3-star, low-rated guys. They're the ones that always seem to be around later than 3-star players "should." My first guess is that you grabbed some guys that aren't that good. My impression is that the recruit class evaluations are heavily based on the Overall Ranking of your recruits, not their actual ratings.

2. Definitely possible. There are *very* few 4 and 5 star players. I've moved forward to the recruiting period of the next season. There are 7 5-star players out there, and 31 4-star players. So, even if they get spread out where no team lands more than one 4 or 5 star guy, the #39 class and all classes beneath it are highly likely to have nothing better than 3-star players.

When you get to the next season, let us know how your guys' ratings turned out.

Another line of questioning: what level is your Head Coach, and how many points did you put on recruiting for him, and how highly-rated is your recruiting coordinator?

[Ben E Lou]

A couple more thoughts on recruiting:

1. Once I get rolling, I only go after high school players, with one exception: if a guy decides to leave school early and I don't have someone waiting in the wings to be a solid starter the next season.

2. In light of only going after high school players, and redshirting practically every single one of them, when I am assessing my recruiting position needs, I only look at players who are Sophs and lower. Because my recruits won't be playing next season anyway, I don't care that much about the talent of the current Junior class.

3. There are useful players to be found amongst the one-star crowd. Check out Donald Kelly from above. Rated #1316 overall, I expect he'll give me some pretty decent scoring and shot-blocking off the bench....and maybe even as a starter one day.

4. Stats are at least somewhat meaningful. Check them! They can be especially helpful in finding guys who might be able to play out of their listed position. If I'm looking for a point guard, I sort first on steals, then I start looking down the page at guys who average more assists than turnovers--even if they are listed at 2 or 3. Some of these guys end up having good ball handling skills and quickness, and can be converted into point guards. A few other ones...

Tall PG's with solid scoring numbers could be 2G's.
Tall SG's with good scoring and rebouding? Perhaps he can fill that need at SF.
Post players with decent steals and Ast/Tur ratios sometimes end up being quick enough and good enough ball handlers to play SF.
Similarly, taller SF's with high rebounds, shot blocking and who are on the heavy side for their heights might just have the skills to get it done in the paint.

[Ben E Lou]

One thing I'm curious about, that I think could be filed in the "this engine gets deeper and deeper the more you find out about it" box, is the usage of three-pointers by guys who can't shoot 'em. I don't have season-by-season saves, so I can't verify this right now, but look at how SF James Patch didn't attempt a trey all year long. I'm think I'm noticing that the further into my career I get, the better my team does at "playing within themselves." Is this because of my coaching??? I had three point shooting set at 8 or 9 last season, and only my good 3-point shooters took 'em (and my offense was "balanced".) I *think* I remember that early in my career, if I set it that high, I might have a PF attempting a couple of threes every game, but I'm no longer seeing that. I'm wondering if this is because my coaching skills have improved, my assistant coaches are better, and my players are therefore responding by playing smarter. Just a thought.

[Axxon]

1. Generally true, but there is a rather wide range of a 3-star players. Didn't count them all, but just glancing down I'm guessing that there are over 200 of them per season, and some of them aren't good at all once you scout them. The AI seems to do a pretty good job of avoiding the 3-star, low-rated guys. They're the ones that always seem to be around later than 3-star players "should." My first guess is that you grabbed some guys that aren't that good. My impression is that the recruit class evaluations are heavily based on the Overall Ranking of your recruits, not their actual ratings.

2. Definitely possible. There are *very* few 4 and 5 star players. I've moved forward to the recruiting period of the next season. There are 7 5-star players out there, and 31 4-star players. So, even if they get spread out where no team lands more than one 4 or 5 star guy, the #39 class and all classes beneath it are highly likely to have nothing better than 3-star players.

When you get to the next season, let us know how your guys' ratings turned out.

Another line of questioning: what level is your Head Coach, and how many points did you put on recruiting for him, and how highly-rated is your recruiting coordinator?

I'll let you know how next season turns out for these guys. I'm planning to shirt them.

I started out as a zero level coach but did slightly emphasize recruiting. I'm using a 20 pt system, which does add a bit of uncertainty but my recruiting is a 7 ( i picked 35 ) and my recruiter is an 8 so one can assume 75 or so total recruit points between us.

Interesting idea on the way class evals may be done. I hadn't considered that one yet.

Since I'm simming I should have some more data to work with soon.

[Axxon]

A couple more thoughts on recruiting:

4. Stats are at least somewhat meaningful. Check them! They can be especially helpful in finding guys who might be able to play out of their listed position. If I'm looking for a point guard, I sort first on steals, then I start looking down the page at guys who average more assists than turnovers--even if they are listed at 2 or 3. Some of these guys end up having good ball handling skills and quickness, and can be converted into point guards. A few other ones...

Tall PG's with solid scoring numbers could be 2G's.
Tall SG's with good scoring and rebouding? Perhaps he can fill that need at SF.
Post players with decent steals and Ast/Tur ratios sometimes end up being quick enough and good enough ball handlers to play SF.
Similarly, taller SF's with high rebounds, shot blocking and who are on the heavy side for their heights might just have the skills to get it done in the paint.


I use stats a decent bit but you have given me some food for thought. I REALLY look at fg%/ft%/3% a lot. If a guy is in the high fours or low fives I consider him a player. Then I match this with his points output to see if I have a scorer or an opportunist who either rebounds well or knows how to play within his game. I don't know if it matters but in the past it's served me well when culling the ones and twos. This is actually the first time to start a low level team where I haven't had to take at least one 2 or less.

It's because near the end I saw SG Scotty Boyle. Poor kid had his heart set on Duke but he didn't have the game or apparantly the IQ ( acad 1 yikes!! ). I decided to court him and moved to second on his list but he still held out hope that the phone would ring and he'd be a blue devil. He signed with me at the very end.

I am interested in how he turns out because if he's solid it doesn't hurt to look for guys like this. That was the most fun guy to find. BTW, I see he was from MS. I was mistaken about ALL my guys being from in region but I'd already had all my other spots filled and was only going after one guy while evaluating a few more. I could afford to woo him.

[Axxon]

About height, look at this guy. He was 6'3" last season.


PLAYER DETAILS

#20 SG Stephen Grayson - Savannah State - Junior
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 6' 5"
Weight: 200
High School: Cedar Grove High School
Hometown: Ellenwood, GA

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 10 4 10 9 4 7 7 4 6 2 7 6 9 18 8 12 12
Potential: C D C C F D D D D F D D


He was a post player in a perimeter players body. I so wanted to put him at power forward but he couldn't hack it. He may grow into it though.

By the way, a lot of these numbers look higher than they did last season, in particular the 3ps. I didn't save at year end, silly me, but do the ratings change at year end as well as training camp?? I know he grew 2 inches but do other skills develop too. This guy had no outside game and now he looks passable. Hmm.

I know him pretty well as I started him in 5 of my 8 games. I was watching him. My memory just doesn't jibe with what I'm seeing but I may be way off.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah...I forgot to mention shooting percentage. It seems to be important as well.

[Ben E Lou]

Hmmm....I've never noticed ratings changing at year-end, but I'm going to fast to see that. I *have* noticed players getting taller, though.

I'd definitely give Grayson a look at SF.

[Ben E Lou]

Speaking of height/out of position, I'm recruiting this guy, and hoping he gets taller. If not, he'll be a SF:

RECRUIT DETAILS
#4 PF Johnathon Espinoza
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 6' 7"
Weight: 237
High School: North Stanly High School
Hometown: New London, NC
GPA: 2.57
Test Score: 920
Rating: ***

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 33 15 54 27 9 60 47 51 38 51 33 31 97 56 57 52 39
Potential: B D C F F B C B B B C C

Season Stats:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTS OREB REB AST TOS A/T STL BLK PFS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.8 1.6 7.2 3.2 1.9 1.70 2.3 1.6 1.8
Shooting Averages:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.9 14.1 .488 2.0 2.9 .684 0.1 1.5 .069

Recruiting Notes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qualified: Yes
Current interest in Savannah State: Average
Rankings: #76 Overall, #14 PF, Southeast Region #16 Overall, Southeast Region #2 PF
High School Awards: All-State, Mr. Basketball (North Carolina), All American
Top 5 Schools: Missouri, Massachusetts, Texas A&M, UNC Wilmington, Hofstra

[Axxon]

That handling will kill him at small forward but two more inches and he'll be solid in the post.

I see a lot of these types of guys and I think it adds a lot to the game.

[Axxon]

My only all state guy. He was all state from South Carolina. He's got no defense though but otherwise.


PLAYER DETAILS

#33 PG Norbert Mann - Savannah State - Freshman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 177
High School: Lamar High School
Hometown: Lamar, SC

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 5 10 9 12 9 9 5 6 5 5 7 4 3 19 9 13 15
Potential: D A C B C C D C D D C D

Health: Good
Scholarship: Yes
Status: Redshirting
Academics: 66

[Ben E Lou]

There are useful players to be found amongst the one-star crowd. Check out Donald Kelly from above. Rated #1316 overall, I expect he'll give me some pretty decent scoring and shot-blocking off the bench....and maybe even as a starter one day.Heh. Check him out now, after his second training camp:

PLAYER DETAILS
#1 C Donald Kelley - Savannah State - Freshman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 7' 0"
Weight: 260
High School: West Greene High School
Hometown: Mosheim, TN

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 71 21 9 0 17 8 20 23 13 30 7 78 39 20 82 40 31
Potential: B D F F D F D D F C F A

[Axxon]

Look at this guy.


#0 SF Mason Bixler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 6' 6"
Weight: 224
High School: Lecanto High School
Hometown: Lecanto, FL
GPA: 2.76
Test Score: 1200
Rating: ***

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 5 14 12 11 5 7 11 12 7 5 9 7 5 9 10 14 2
Potential: D B B B F C A B F F B A

Season Stats:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTS OREB REB AST TOS A/T STL BLK PFS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18.6 2.4 8.8 2.3 3.4 0.68 3.0 1.3 3.3

Shooting Averages:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7.8 15.4 .508 2.0 2.6 .804 0.9 2.8 .316

Recruiting Notes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qualified: Yes
Current interest in Savannah State: Average
Rankings: #45 SF, Southeast Region #40 Overall, Southeast Region #11 SF
High School Awards: All-State
Top 5 Schools: South Florida, Bethune-Cookman, Tennessee, Florida, Stetson


Stamina is his huge weakness. Do you get worthwhile production from guys with this low of a stamina? Can it improve enough that he could start one day?

If his stamina was higher and he was a lock to start, is this the kind of guy you talked about when you said that you go heavy after one guy? I think a bigger school would want him. Heck, I want him now. If the lower tier schools on his list make a move should I try and compete considering his stamina?

What's your take on play time?? It's annoying when playing the games but the computer seems to let them play longer than I do.

[Ben E Lou]

I've found that giving a guy 10 points in stamina for at least his first two training camps general gets them at least passable. As smart as this guy is, you probably won't have to give him any study points. I'd go after him in a heartbeat at this stage of your career. Don't even think twice about it. Yeah, this is the kind of go after heavy early one.

I don't pretend to fully have a handle on playing time yet. Knowing that there are two ways to help control how tired my guys get (pace and playing time) I have just adhered to these general rules:

1. Solid reserves + low endurance starters = low playing time for starters and faster pace.
2. Bad reserves + high endurance starters = high playing time for starters and slower pace.

Depending on how good my reserves are, and how high endurance my starters have, I adjust playing time and pace accordingly. Pretty basic for me right now. I'd imagine there's more to it than that, but I haven't studied it at all.

[Axxon]

I've found that giving a guy 10 points in stamina for at least his first two training camps general gets them at least passable. As smart as this guy is, you probably won't have to give him any study points. I'd go after him in a heartbeat at this stage of your career. Don't even think twice about it. Yeah, this is the kind of go after heavy early one.

I don't pretend to fully have a handle on playing time yet. Knowing that there are two ways to help control how tired my guys get (pace and playing time) I have just adhered to these general rules:

1. Solid reserves + low endurance starters = low playing time for starters and faster pace.
2. Bad reserves + high endurance starters = high playing time for starters and slower pace.

Depending on how good my reserves are, and how high endurance my starters have, I adjust playing time and pace accordingly. Pretty basic for me right now. I'd imagine there's more to it than that, but I haven't studied it at all.

Very nice rules of thumb. I've never really thought much about pace. Motion, I have and I use it in game a lot to try and get looks if my shooting sucks or lower it if my turnovers are high. I've never much fiddled with pace.

I'm going for him. Those numbers just make me drool. Hehe. I'll do the 10 pts in stamina if I land him and see where it gets me. Wish me luck.

[samifan24]

Everytime I read one of Skydog's posts about his FBCB career, I get one step closer to breaking the bank and buying this game. I was one of those scarred by the TDCB debacle, but FBCB seems a very enjoyable game. Must...stop...reaching...for...wallet :) (not because I don't think the game is worth it, only because I'm a poor college student)

[Axxon]

Everytime I read one of Skydog's posts about his FBCB career, I get one step closer to breaking the bank and buying this game. I was one of those scarred by the TDCB debacle, but FBCB seems a very enjoyable game. Must...stop...reaching...for...wallet :) (not because I don't think the game is worth it, only because I'm a poor college student)

When I get famous like SkyDog, I'll have a team that has mostly good players too. :)

Get the game samifan24. It'll take a bite at first but this game is one of the best sports sims ever made. It's that simple and I'm not even a basketball fan. Well...I was yesterday and guess why??? Yep.

[Ben E Lou]

Very nice rules of thumb. I've never really thought much about pace. Motion, I have and I use it in game a lot to try and get looks if my shooting sucks or lower it if my turnovers are high. I've never much fiddled with pace.The thing I think I like best about this game is that I've found that doing what is simple and logical usually has the expected results. One season in particular really sold me. I had two very good post players, decent ball-handling (but not good at shooting or driving) guards, and an average SF. Also, I didn't have a lot of depth. I lowered the pace to 1 or 2, put the focus on the inside game, and made my two big guys the only offensive focal players. The results were very satisfying. We *crushed* most of the teams we played, even good ones, because they couldn't stop us from scoring nearly every time down the court as we'd patiently get it inside. However, there were a few teams in my weak conference that gave me trouble, and I had two conference losses even. Both conference losses, and all of our close games even, were against teams with good defensive guards, and the losses were high-scoring. I didn't check every game, but in the ones I did check, I saw those teams doing a lot of pressing and trapping. Perhaps other teams tried it as well, but remember, I had decent guards. However, they weren't GREAT guards. The teams with very good defensive guards had a lot of success against us, and ultimately, we lost in the 2nd round of the NCAA's to a lesser team with good defensive guards.

[Ben E Lou]

Get the game samifan24. It'll take a bite at first but this game is one of the best sports sims ever made. It's that simple and I'm not even a basketball fan. Well...I was yesterday and guess why??? Yep.Agreed, and I don't really follow basketball any more.

[Axxon]

It's good to offer scholarships. I offered Bixler a scholarship and visited him myself. His interest jumped to very high and we are his current #1 choice. Can we stay there??

My point I guess is that it's not so important to bum rush in the first couple of months to get to the top. Staying there? I'm not sure.

Even if each activity helps fill the well, there's no need overfilling the well I don't think. That's why I call my approach a hybrid but it may be what SkyDog does. The thing is, at every stage I give my best $$ but unless I sense trouble I don't overspend.

If I need to later, I'll be able to because I've already planted alternative seeds that I can still cultivate. Time will tell but this is the approach I take. Better work, we're already printing the program guides.

[RPI-Fan]

This brings me to a question - is redshirting too effective in FBCB?

Since there is no "player happiness" model, there is no way to restrict redshirting. But I'm thinking it may be interesting to impose a house rule of "only 1 redshirt per year" or something like that.

[mgadfly]

Regarding redshirting, after I build up a team to a certain point, the benefit of red-shirting is decreased drastically. Such as when I land a top recruit, and he declares at the beginning of his freshman season that he is going pro.

I don't complain, since that is usually with top-35 or so players, and almost always top-15. I'm happy just to have them, even if for one season. I often go after guys between #20 and #50 just because I know that a Top-20 player has almost no chance to stay with my team long enough to take advantage of red-shirting him.

[MizzouRah]

You can't even beat College of Charleston? Sheeeeshhh...:rolleyes:

Unreal Ben, I mean unreal. Either you're a text sim genius or you have wayyyy too much time on your hands. Either way, excellent job with Sav St. Although, you're like 73 years old taking levitra and drinking yourself to sleep at night. :)

btw, I love this: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=800 border=0><TBODY><TR class=row2><TD class=main>Job Evaluation:</TD><TD class=main>Your performance is the stuff of legends.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


What's this scheduling tip? ..and do you coach your games or just watch them?


Todd

[korme]

Wow, I have nearly a better team every year (IMO) and usually end up a 4 seed who is out of the tournament by the Sweet 16.. Quite a weak schedule, but that got you a #1 and you rode it to become champs. Impressive, I couldn't have done it.

Arizona State and I remain baffled.

[korme]

If anyone is curious how I am doing.


Arizona State Sun Devils Historical Performances

Season W L CW CL Rank RPI Prs Result
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2031 24 9 14 4 15 13 79 Loss in NCAA Tourney Round 2
2030 25 9 12 6 10 16 83 Loss in NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2029 16 15 8 10 73 64 83 Loss in NIT Round 1
2028 21 14 8 10 21 21 89 Loss in NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2027 22 10 12 6 11 10 93 Loss in NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2026 32 6 14 4 2 3 88 NCAA Champion
2025 22 12 10 8 20 20 75 Loss in NCAA Final Four
2024 21 14 10 8 27 27 68 Loss in NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2023 26 8 12 6 8 11 63 Loss in NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2022 14 15 7 11 149 96 56 No Postseason

I have my coach's "son" take over at this point
and find my greatest success from here on out.
2021 14 15 7 11 140 113 55 No Postseason
2020 11 18 5 13 180 178 56 No Postseason
2019 15 15 7 11 136 94 57 Loss in NIT Preliminary Round
2018 19 11 11 7 62 74 57 Loss in NIT Round 1
2017 13 15 5 13 160 101 53 No Postseason
2016 17 14 7 11 53 42 55 Loss in NIT Round 1
2015 10 19 6 12 162 131 53 No Postseason

I take over the worst team in the Pac 10 after building up early teams.
At this point, Az. State has never won the Pac 10 season or tournament.
2014 12 17 7 11 159 105 52 No Postseason
2013 12 16 6 12 158 138 51 No Postseason
2012 12 17 7 11 159 117 55 No Postseason
2011 11 16 6 12 168 140 55 No Postseason
2010 8 20 5 13 190 183 57 No Postseason
2009 12 16 6 12 170 149 57 No Postseason
2008 18 12 11 7 44 42 57 Loss in NCAA Tourney Round 1
2007 10 19 7 11 208 199 52 No Postseason
2006 11 18 7 11 177 162 50 No Postseason
2005 7 21 2 16 214 224 51 No Postseason
2004 9 19 4 14 201 201 52 No Postseason
2003 12 16 5 13 193 163 52 No Postseason
2002 8 20 3 15 211 222 52 No Postseason
2001 19 13 9 9 44 44 52 Loss in NIT Round 3
2000 12 17 7 11 171 181 49 No Postseason
1999 12 16 5 13 175 157 48 No Postseason
1998 9 19 4 14 224 247 51 No Postseason
1997 5 23 2 16 198 196 53 No Postseason
1996 3 25 0 18 259 274 54 No Postseason
1995 10 19 4 14 173 156 55 No Postseason
1994 18 13 12 6 56 56 59 Loss in NIT Round 1
1993 9 20 6 12 163 128 57 No Postseason

Season W L CW CL Rank RPI Prs Result
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1992 7 21 3 15 180 171 59 No Postseason
1991 7 23 5 13 180 162 64 No Postseason

The Pac 10 is stuffed with talent though, and I have still not found
quite the success I would have liked (besides the championship year,
still haven't gotten another Pac 10 title). But it is very fun.

Arizona State Sun Devils Trophy Case

Season Trophy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2030 Guardians Classic Champion
2028 Preseason NIT Champion
2026 NCAA Champion
2026 Pacific-10 Champion
2026 Pacific-10 Tourney Champion




That championship year was special, and I haven't had a team like it since. But who knows, I just got the #3 and #1 recruiting classes the past 2 seasons, my best ever, so things should be back on the rise for Arizona State.

I don't use conference movement, but I do adjust things myself. It's fun.

[Peregrine]

A fun type of game I've tried a couple times is the time limit career. What you do is create a good coach (like a 14-15 guy) and basically give him 10 seasons to get as close to a championship as possible. I start them with some no-name school in an obscure conference. The first time I tried it he was a year at Elon, then went to Penn for a year, then Utah State, and basically built up their program for the remaining 8 seasons. Didn't win a championship but I lost in the championship game twice! Argh! It's a lot of fun though, you have to think carefully about what school you want to go to and you need to focus on "results now" kind of players.

[Cringer]

Sounds like you are all having fun with this, thats great because i love this game! I started off not nowing a thing at all! i follow the NCAA's but know little about basketball. So needless to say when i first started playing i started at a higher coaching level (7+)... and would cheat sometimes (bumping up a guys potentail or cutting short his injury).

Then i started over, no cheating at all. I am now in 2136 and on my 4th generation coach. I have been able to win the NCAA Championship with each coach, but despite multiple Final Four trips with two coaches, have never gotten that second title for a coach, usually retiring in my late 60's. One thing i have definetly learned, is that sometimes it just is NOT meant to be! I know that it is not really something that could be programmed in, but it just works that way. I can go to a school and nothing i do works, get over to another program and i take off with the same coach.........

[MizzouRah]

SD,

I would still like to know if you coach your games or just sim them? ...and what's your scheduling tip?

If you sim, do you setup your lineups and coaching options?


Todd

[Franklinnoble]

Ben...

I've been following most of your FBCB threads, and I really think you should compile all the great information you've shared here into a comprehensive FBCB strategy guide. Heck, maybe you'll get a free copy of the next version of the game for your efforts - you're certainly doing a whole lot to promote the game and educate the masses on it.

[McSweeny]

Ben...

you're certainly doing a whole lot to promote the game and educate the masses on it.

for sure! it has certainly shot up my list of games to get

[RPI-Fan]

Ben...

I've been following most of your FBCB threads, and I really think you should compile all the great information you've shared here into a comprehensive FBCB strategy guide. Heck, maybe you'll get a free copy of the next version of the game for your efforts - you're certainly doing a whole lot to promote the game and educate the masses on it.

I was thinking of posting a thread about this today. Kind of like the ole' FOF2 days where everyone got together and did a section. There is just so much stuff to talk about in this game - definitely something worth thinking about.

[MizzouRah]

I was thinking of posting a thread about this today. Kind of like the ole' FOF2 days where everyone got together and did a section. There is just so much stuff to talk about in this game - definitely something worth thinking about.
That's the statement of the year. This game game came out of nowhere for me, funny how the screenshots made me say, "eh?" and try out TDCB.

We had a poll awhile back and HR was right behind Jim. His game needs to be pimped more. Alot of people are missing out on one of the best sports sims many of us have played. I love the game, and just when I think I've reached the edge, I learn something new again. This game is so much deeper than I was expecting when buying it. I won't lie, it took me awhile to really get into this game, but I'm glad I took the time to really play this one. It never leaves me scratching my head. Brillant.


Todd

[duckman]

CHAMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1 vs. #2 in the final game. We jumped out to a 9-0 lead, led by 20 at the half, and cruised to a 109-92 win!

That's awsome, SD. I'm going to get the game come payday. I love college BB and this sounds like a dream come true.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Wow Ben, 73? You don't look a day over 65 to me! ;)

OK, now I'm going to be forced to get this game too. I'm really going to hate you all! My girlfriend is going to despise you. She already laughs any time I mention anything about the game or boards. So now she'll ask me what I'm looking at on the boards and I'll close it immediatly and tell her "nothing." Good. Makes it seem like I almost have a life or something... :D

[stevew]

Ben single handedly is selling tons of copies of this game. I demo-ed it, and it didnt do too much for me, but now I am considering giving it another chance.

[kingnebwsu]

Ben...

I've been following most of your FBCB threads, and I really think you should compile all the great information you've shared here into a comprehensive FBCB strategy guide. Heck, maybe you'll get a free copy of the next version of the game for your efforts - you're certainly doing a whole lot to promote the game and educate the masses on it.

Totally agreed. I've read each thread on FBCB, and even started a few of my own. As soon as I can get my roomy to help me install Windows XP, I will buy the full version. My Trial version just ran out, but the sim speed gets just awful on Win98. It will be the next PC game I purchase. I just hope I can get some decent PT out of it, as I'm quite weird about my text-sims (the only ones I've played for more than 50 seasons total are the OOTP and TCY series). I've only played maybe 40-45 seasons of all the versions of FOF combined (that would be FOF 2, FOF 4, and the new one).

[Neuqua]

I think you will have no problem accumulating seasons in FBCB. For me atleast, they fly by so fast because you are so *in* to the game, next thing you know, you are 15 years in. Then 25. Then 30. etc.

[CamEdwards]

I'm another who bought FBCB after reading these threads. Played my first season as Oral Roberts yesterday, and I'm loving it so far.

[KevinNU7]

Wow, I've jumped into this thread late.

Congrats SkyDog, aren't happy you stayed with Savanna State now?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hell, I can't even play the blasted thing & I read these threads.

Straight up, I can't think of any one user who has single-handedly provided more motivation to buy a game than SD has with this one.

[MizzouRah]

Hell, I can't even play the blasted thing & I read these threads.

Straight up, I can't think of any one user who has single-handedly provided more motivation to buy a game than SD has with this one.

Jon,

Let it go man, let Win ME go. :)



Todd

[Ben E Lou]

First off, Todd, you oughta know by now that I doubt I'll ever coach games in any text sim. ;) From starting out with Statis-Pro Major League Baseball at around age 9, to Microleague Baseball and Football, to Strat-O-Matic for the computer, I'm quite sure I coached well over 10,000 games in various sports. (Actually, considering that 10,000 games is only 60 baseball seasons with one team, I wouldn't be shocked if the number is closer to 20,000.) On the day in my late 20's that I moved from Strat-O-Matic to Baseball Mogul, I hung up my game-by-game whistle, probably for good. :p

Second, what is funny is that I started posting questions about the game, and the more I've gotten into it, the more I've liked it. I didn't have any motivation to "sell" others on the game. In fact, since I didn't buy this one on release day, I thought I was getting in on this one later, rather than sooner. I'd seen others on here say how good this game is, and that's why I looked into it in the first place. If others are enjoying it and it helps a text sim developer with more sales, then that's definitely a plus for all of us.

Of all sports, I have the most odd relationship to basketball. I hardly follow it at all any more (although I used to follow the college game *very* closely), but in terms of the ins and outs of coaching strategy, teaching fundamentals, etc., I'd venture to say that it is the sport that I am most knowledgeable about. It is the only sport that I have coached--not on any high level, mind you--just in rec leagues and church leagues. However, in all modesty I'll allow myself to say that my teams almost always seem to perform well for their level of talent. As others have said, FBCB just "feels" like real basketball.

A few thoughts on FBCB strategy:

LINEUP SETTING
My experience has been that this is a very solid, very realistic game engine. The result is that I don't find myself "playing against the game," but merely using what I consider to be sound basketball strategy. Therefore, lineup setting for me is pretty simple and logical. Here's what I look for in each position, in the order of importance for me:

PF & C--I look at these positions together. I want to have the most important bases covered in the post, so I want two starters who compliment each others' skills, so that between the two of them I can count on these bases being covered: inside scoring, defensive rebounding, post defense, shot blocking. Strength and offensive rebounding are nice to have as well, but I look at these secondarily. Once I pick the two, the one who is better defensively starts at Center.

PG--Ball handling, ball handling, ball handling. We can't score if we don't have the ball, and we won't have the ball if we give it to the other team. I'd rather have a guy like my current point guard: 92 ball handling, 39 passing, than 39/92 guy any day of the week. As when I coach church ball, I *hate* turnovers. :p After ball handling, and then quickness, pretty much everything else is gravy to me at this position.

SG--If, as is usually the case, I have a good ball handler but weak scorer at the point, I want my 2-guard to be a good outside shooter, 3-point guy. When I have the high-skill ball handler at PG, I don't worry as much about this guy's ball handling. I just want it to be decent.

SF--Definitely the "swing-man" for me. Oftentimes my decision as to a starter here is based more upon what skills I am weak in elsewhere, rather than who my best overall option is. In other words, if my post players are suspect defensively, I will value post defense more highly here. If I think I need help rebounding, then I look for that. If neither my PG nor SG can shoot well from the outside, I look for an outside scorer. I have found that a variety of types of players will work here, if you set your strategies accordingly. I do value quickness at this position.

GAME STRATEGIES
Again, the engine is solid, so sound, logical basketball strategy rules the day here as well.

PACE & PLAYING TIME--I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but this depends entirely on my personnel. The two main things I assess when determining how fast a pace I should use are:

1. How many quality players do I have on the bench?
2. How much endurance do my starters have?

I have just adhered to these general rules:

1. Solid reserves + low endurance starters = low playing time for starters and faster pace.
2. Bad reserves + high endurance starters = high playing time for starters and slower pace.

Depending on how good my reserves are, and how high endurance my starters have, I adjust playing time and pace accordingly. I've literally had success everywhere from 0 to 10 on the pace scale.

MOTION--This one's pretty cut and dried, as is stated in the manual: "A higher motion setting will make the team play a more structured game. It would take away some from the individual freedom to score but it will create more opportunities for less talented scorers. A team with many players who lack the ability to create shots would benefit from using more motion." Pretty straightforward. In case you didn't know it, guys with low INS scoring are the ones who "lack the ability to create shots." I have come to value INS in my recruiting and training camp settings pretty highly, so if things are going according to plan, I use a low motion setting. However, I've been stuck with some starting squads that have caused me to have to increase my motion settings. As one would expect, high-motion offenses seem to work best with guys who take care of the basketball well.

OFFENSE FOCUS--Pretty obvious. I go with my strengths. Even in the early going, though, it isn't that hard to field a relatively balanced team. I use "balanced" more than any other, but this for me this is 100% dependent on my personnel.

DEFENSES--I use two: M2M and 2-3. I don't press and trap much, so these two seem to work just fine. I haven't used it much in FBCB, but if, as with the rest of the game, these things work realistically, I'd use 1-3-1 if I liked to trap.

PRESS/TRAP--I don't use these a lot right now. I know someone posted about LOVING to use these in a "40-minutes-of-hell" style team. Because I like to focus more on offensive skills than defensive skills in recruiting, I usually don't have the kind of personnel to make these work for me.

DOUBLE INSIDE/DOUBLE OUTSIDE--I only bump these up if I have a defensive liability in the post or at one of the guards who I think might benefit from some help.

SCHEDULING
I've found that there are three important bits of information to consider with regard to scheduling:

1. One factor in player development is the level of competition they faced last season.
2. There is no tiredness carry-over from game to game.
3. Your team gets better defensively as they play more games.

Taking these factors into consideration, I do the following:

1. Get as many games in as early as possible. When I was an Indy, I'd sometimes play all of my games every other day until I had all 28 in.
2. Even when I completely suck, schedule at least 3 games on the road against schools with Prestige of 90 or better.

NOTE: Some may consider #1 a "cheat" of sorts, but it is definitely risky. If a key player gets hurt or is academically ineligible, he'll miss *FAR* more games this way. If you do consider this a cheat, then an easy house rule would go something like this: "No more than 3 games scheduled in any one week, and no more than 10 games scheduled in any month." It isn't nearly as big of a deal once you get into a conference.

Now that I'm in a conference, here's how I schedule the 10 games (12 if I don't get invited to play in a preseason tourney) at my disposal:

Day 1: Away, school with Prestige <10
Day 3: Away, school with Prestige <10 (These first two are "tune-ups" to get the defense improving just a little.)
Day 5: Away, school with Prestige >95
Day 7: Away, school with Prestige >95 (The next two are to help with level of competition. Plus, now that I'm good, when I steal one of them it is almost always a quality win. If I'm not in a preseason tourney, I schedule a third away game with a school >95 Prestige.)

Then, I start the home games. I sort by last year's record. I want to schedule teams that had good records--in hopes for quality wins at home. I increase the prestige of the teams I'm playing as I go along, as follows:

Day 9: Home, highest-record school with prestige 30ish points below mine.
Day 11: Home, highest-record school with prestige 20ish points below mine.
Day 13: Home, highest-record school with prestige 10ish points below mine.
Day 15: Home, highest-record school with prestige near mine.
Day 17: Home, highest-record school with prestige 5-10 points above mine.
Day 19: Home, highest-record school with prestige 10-20 points above mine. (If I'm not in a tourney, I schedule another home game against a school with Prestige 10-20 points above mine.)

I don't have a full handle on it yet, but I've found that the highest prestige I can get to come to my place usually has prestige 15-20 points above mine. I use the early home games as tune-ups for the more important ones, but by playing teams that had 20+ wins last year, often I end up getting a quality win or two in that stretch, because that team dominates its low-level conference and eeks into the Top 50. I've found that I tend to be playing some of the same teams during that stretch each year.

That's all for now. Maybe I'll write a little sumpin-sumpin about recruiting in the next few days, but there are several little thoughts on it in this thread already.

--Ben

[corbes]

My Win98 computer lives vicariously through these threads... :)

[MizzouRah]

Wow, you should copy this to the FBCB board as well. :)


Thanks,

Todd

[Ben E Lou]

Any comments, feedbacks, agreements or disagreements on all of that?

[Ben E Lou]

Just two years later, we're back in the Final Four....

[Ben E Lou]

It wasn't to be this year. We lost in the National Semis to St. John's. It was our second loss to them this season. (They were one of the 95+ Prestige Away games this season.)

[Ben E Lou]

Well, we can at least take solace in the fact that St. John's blew Kansas out in the championship game.

[MizzouRah]

Well, we can at least take solace in the fact that St. John's blew Kansas out in the championship game.

Yeah!!! Allright!!!

Oh, for a minute there I thought you talking about the real NCAA. :D


Todd

[sjshaw]

Did you write anything about recruiting in another thread? This is a great resource.

[WSUCougar]

Yeah, SD, perhaps you should cut and paste that information to a new thread and then save it to the stickied resources thread.

[rexallllsc]

Speaking of height/out of position, I'm recruiting this guy, and hoping he gets taller. If not, he'll be a SF

Is it possible to change a players listed position, so that although he's listed as a PF in Hs, he can be listed as a SF in College? I ask because I havent entered my second season yet...

[WSUCougar]

Yes. I believe it's on the training settings screen.

[rjolley]

Yes, on the training screen.

There's a dropdown between the name and the training values.

[Anthony]

GO JOHNNIES!!!

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, SD, perhaps you should cut and paste that information to a new thread and then save it to the stickied resources thread.Doin' it right now.