Beliefs about Organ Transplants?

[Sharpieman]

I'm doing a survey for my Stats class and I wanted to use this an my issue. I welcome any comments on organ transplantation.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I really find the arguments against organ transplantation difficult to take seriously. I have had two good friends' lives extended by years (both still alive) because of organ transplants. One had to have a liver transplant. If he was an American citizen, he wouldn't have survived. Luckily for him he has dual US-Italian citizenship and was able to travel to Italy to get an acceptable liver. My other friend just had a double-lung transplant, she has sistic-fibrosis. Amazing that she's still alive.

I am totally in favor of changing the law so that we are all donors unless we affirmatively claim otherwise. I think the way it is now (the reverse of the above) costs people in need thousands, if not millions of good, healthy organs each year just because people don't think about it when alive or don't know any better. It pisses me off to no end.

[Sharpieman]

I'm totally biased with this issue. I myself recieved a new heart in December of 2000 when I was 16 years old. I was born with a certain congential heart problem called Transposition of the great vessels; my aorta (which carries blood away from the heart) and my pulmonary artery were switched. Simply put, you can think of a heart as backwards. I struggled through 8 open heart surgeries from the day I was born until I was 12 year old. After about 2 years of being healthy, my heart funtion began to fail. In September of 2000 I was put on the heart transplant list in California and was later blessed with a heart on December 13th 2000. My stay on the heart transplant list was really short, usually people have to wait like 2 years before they recieve a heart. Now I'm pretty healthy, although I had some problems up to about 6 months ago. After a heart transplant or any transplant for that matter most people think that its smooth sailing from there. This is not the case. Many people have problems with the sometimes horrible medicine one must take (I took a medicine for about a year that caused cronic stomach pain. I literally could not stand up straight) or people experience problems with there bodies immune system thinking that the heart is a virus and attacking it (I also had this problem in which I had lengthy stays in hospitals, but there is medicine that I still take daily that lowers the immune system). After going through hell for about 16 years I'm just happy to beileve alive.
As a volunteer for the California Transplant Network I try to boost awareness of the importance of organ transplantation. I have encountered many people who do not feel comfortable about organ transplantation and its my job to respect those beliefs. The only thing I can do is educate the public about my story and hopefully change some minds about this subject. And just a plug, if you want to be an organ donor the first thing you do is tell your loved ones, your family and such that you want to donate when you pass. Second you can if your old enough put that little pink sticker on your drivers licence.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm totally biased with this issue. I myself recieved a new heart in December of 2000 when I was 16 years old. I was born with a certain congential heart problem called Transposition of the great vessels; my aorta (which carries blood away from the heart) and my pulmonary artery were switched. Simply put, you can think of a heart as backwards. I struggled through 8 open heart surgeries from the day I was born until I was 12 year old. After about 2 years of being healthy, my heart funtion began to fail. In September of 2000 I was put on the heart transplant list in California and was later blessed with a heart on December 13th 2000. My stay on the heart transplant list was really short, usually people have to wait like 2 years before they recieve a heart. Now I'm pretty healthy, although I had some problems up to about 6 months ago. After a heart transplant or any transplant for that matter most people think that its smooth sailing from there. This is not the case. Many people have problems with the sometimes horrible medicine one must take (I took a medicine for about a year that caused cronic stomach pain. I literally could not stand up straight) or people experience problems with there bodies immune system thinking that the heart is a virus and attacking it (I also had this problem in which I had lengthy stays in hospitals, but there is medicine that I still take daily that lowers the immune system). After going through hell for about 16 years I'm just happy to beileve alive.
As a volunteer for the California Transplant Network I try to boost awareness of the importance of organ transplantation. I have encountered many people who do not feel comfortable about organ transplantation and its my job to respect those beliefs. The only thing I can do is educate the public about my story and hopefully change some minds about this subject. And just a plug, if you want to be an organ donor the first thing you do is tell your loved ones, your family and such that you want to donate when you pass. Second you can if your old enough put that little pink sticker on your drivers licence.

Wow. Congrats for making it through all that. It's gotta take amazing strength. The time post-transplant can certainly be the hardest. So many things can go wrong.

As for encountering people who do not feel comfortable about organ tansplantation. I have met those too, but haven't really dicussed it too much. What reasons do they give? I respect their beliefs, but I find it really hard to understand. The idea that your organs are in someone else's body is an odd thought, but when you think of the people's lives who you can save, not donating just seems terrible selfish, regardless of the reasons.

[Sharpieman]

Many people claim that their religious beliefs conflict with transplanting organs, but in reality an overwhelming majority of religions accept and even endorse organ transplantation. Another concern is mostly caused by sensationalism of the media and a small number of people who sell organs on the black market. The media does a horrible job with this issue and makes it seem like a huge problem in the world, but in reality its just a few people who do it. I've had people come up to me and say, "Why should I give my organs away when I can just sell them and have my family collect the gains?" First of all its illegal. Second, I think there is considerable moral issues pertaining to that subject.

[Draft Dodger]

I'm all for transplants, but there's another factor that in some cases can make people reluctant.

when my father suffered his stroke, and was only being kept alive by life support, we were approached by the doctor to make a decision on donation ("we" being me, my sisters and my stepmother, although the ultimate decision belonged to my stepmother alone). at any rate, in our case, it would have meant keeping him on life support for a day or two longer while he was prepared for that, and we just couldn't bring ourselves to agree to that. had it been an easier procedure, maybe it would have been an easier decision for us

[Ryche]

Recycle me when I die.

[Taur]

I am totally in favor of changing the law so that we are all donors unless we affirmatively claim otherwise.
Now, that would be the way to go. You are an organ donor unless you fill out a form/License that states otherwise.

Are there any bills/laws pending that would bring about a 180 degree turn on this subject?

[KevinNU7]

My other friend just had a double-lung transplant, she has sistic-fibrosis. Amazing that she's still alive..How old is she. I did a report a few years ago on CF and I'm wodnering what the advancements are

[KevinNU7]

I'm totally biased with this issue. I myself recieved a new heart in December of 2000 when I was 16 years old. I was born with a certain congential heart problem called Transposition of the great vessels; my aorta (which carries blood away from the heart) and my pulmonary artery were switched. Simply put, you can think of a heart as backwards. I struggled through 8 open heart surgeries from the day I was born until I was 12 year old. After about 2 years of being healthy, my heart funtion began to fail. In September of 2000 I was put on the heart transplant list in California and was later blessed with a heart on December 13th 2000. My stay on the heart transplant list was really short, usually people have to wait like 2 years before they recieve a heart. Now I'm pretty healthy, although I had some problems up to about 6 months ago. After a heart transplant or any transplant for that matter most people think that its smooth sailing from there. This is not the case. Many people have problems with the sometimes horrible medicine one must take (I took a medicine for about a year that caused cronic stomach pain. I literally could not stand up straight) or people experience problems with there bodies immune system thinking that the heart is a virus and attacking it (I also had this problem in which I had lengthy stays in hospitals, but there is medicine that I still take daily that lowers the immune system). After going through hell for about 16 years I'm just happy to beileve alive.
As a volunteer for the California Transplant Network I try to boost awareness of the importance of organ transplantation. I have encountered many people who do not feel comfortable about organ transplantation and its my job to respect those beliefs. The only thing I can do is educate the public about my story and hopefully change some minds about this subject. And just a plug, if you want to be an organ donor the first thing you do is tell your loved ones, your family and such that you want to donate when you pass. Second you can if your old enough put that little pink sticker on your drivers licence. It's people like you that make me glad I'm a donor and a bi-weely platelete donor[FONT=Arial]

[ahbrady]

I think it is terribly selfish to not be a donor. At least I haven't heard any legitimate reason not to be one. I have heard people say that if you are in an accident and are an organ donor, then doctors are likely to let you die to use your organs. I can't imagine being dumb enough to believe that. That would be making a death certain to possibly prolong another life that could be saved by other means. I'm constantly amazed at the things a seemingly sane adult would believe.

[Bosco]

People are against organ donation? This is news to me.

[Honolulu_Blue]

How old is she. I did a report a few years ago on CF and I'm wodnering what the advancements are

She's 33.

She did a week long "electronic journal" on slate.com

Here's the link:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096727/entry/2096844/

[Butter]

First Man: Hello, er can we have your liver...?

Mr Bloke: My what?

First Man: Your liver... it's a large glandular organ in your
abdomen... you know it's a reddish-brown and it's sort of -

Mr Bloke: Yes, I know what it is, but I'm using it.

Second Man: Come on sir... don't muck us about.

[They move in.]

Mr Bloke: Hey!

[They shut the door behind him.]

[The first man makes a grab at his wallet and finds a
card in it.]

First Man: Hallo! What's this then...?

Mr Bloke: A liver donor's card.

First Man: Need we say more?

Second Man: No!

Mr Bloke: Look, I can't give it to you now. It says 'In The Event
of Death'...

First Man: No-one who has ever had their liver taken out by us has
survived...

[Honolulu_Blue]

People are against organ donation? This is news to me.

Outside of the reasons ahbrady raised (I agree they are outlandish), I don't think there are too many people who are against the idea of organ donation as a concept. The rub usually comes when it's talking about donating their organs. Many people are uncomfortable with the idea or claim it's against their religion or what have you. I imagine if someone on the state or federal level tried to change the law as I suggested, there would be people coming out of the woodwork claiming it's a violation of rights, religion, or what have you. I don't think people should be compelled to donate their organs, but I certainly believe it should be the default.

[Butter]

I think there are a lot of people who don't trust doctors out there, and think that if they are close to death, the doctors won't try too hard to keep them alive so they can pass their organs out to those in need.

Also, a couple of people have actually said to me that what if Judgment Day comes and God brings everyone back to life and you're sitting their stuck without your eyes or heart or whatever, then wouldn't you wish you hadn't been an organ donor?

Yes, I considered them nutso too.

I have Organ Donor clearly marked on my card, and both my wife and I have it in our will in case we die together to give away ANY of our organs to those who might need them.

[cthomer5000]

chop me up and give me to anyone you'd like.

[finkenst]

It's people like you that make me glad I'm a donor and a bi-weely platelete donor
Aye. Same here, Kevin. organ donor, clearly marked on my license. bi-monthly blood donor, about to start doing the bi-weekly apheresis...

----

As for the nutsos about being raised up by God sans organs, wouldn't they think that God (Yahweh, Allah, Siva, etc) would reward them for the tremendous gift of life they gave to someone else?:confused:

oh well.

Happy easter, Everyone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let's see here ... I'm pretty much neutral about the subject in general, I don't harbor much grudge against anyone who does or doesn't choose to be a donor.

That said, the notion of "default setting" as "donor=yes" runs contrary to every fiber of my being. My organs & I believe only I have the right to dictate what is done with them. And I'd say that's going to be the widespread reaction if anything like this was ever seriously proposed on a wide scale in this country.

I don't think it'd be from one overwhelming concern, but from a variety of concerns ranging from religious beliefs to civil liberties concerns to grave concerns about the motives of health care workers making decisions.

[Kodos]

Parts is parts. Might as well use 'em.

[Desnudo]

Let's see here ... I'm pretty much neutral about the subject in general, I don't harbor much grudge against anyone who does or doesn't choose to be a donor.

That said, the notion of "default setting" as "donor=yes" runs contrary to every fiber of my being. My organs & I believe only I have the right to dictate what is done with them. And I'd say that's going to be the widespread reaction if anything like this was ever seriously proposed on a wide scale in this country.

I don't think it'd be from one overwhelming concern, but from a variety of concerns ranging from religious beliefs to civil liberties concerns to grave concerns about the motives of health care workers making decisions.

It's very easy to become one right now anyway. I agree that it should be a personal choice. They ask you if you want to be one when you get your drivers license. At least in Washington state.

I think most people who are not organ donors, outside of those who don't because of "religous" beliefs, don't do it because it makes them consider their own mortality.

[panerd]

Hate to break this to you Sharpieman but statistically speaking your second post destroyed any chance of the results meaning anything. Nothing personal, I think your story is a great one but if you are turning this in for any sort of grade or as a study I would suggest doing it all over again somewhere else.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think most people who are not organ donors, outside of those who don't because of "religous" beliefs, don't do it because it makes them consider their own mortality.
Interesting. I've never really picked up on any strong pattern/tendency in the little discussion I've had on the subject.

I'm not currently a donor, nor am I likely to become one voluntarily. In simple terms, I trust the medical profession to have my best interest about as much as I trust the average politician.

[panerd]

Interesting. I've never really picked up on any strong pattern/tendency in the little discussion I've had on the subject.

I'm not currently a donor, nor am I likely to become one voluntarily. In simple terms, I trust the medical profession to have my best interest about as much as I trust the average politician.

I have just been skimming the thread and then got to this post so please direct me if this has been discussed. But it seems as though you aversion is due to the fact that Mickey Mantle might get your liver before the loving, poor father of three kids. While I would agree that problems like this probably exist it seems like a pretty short sighted arguement against organ donation. Sort of like the screw them all because some of them are crooks argument that is made all of the time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I have just been skimming the thread and then got to this post so please direct me if this has been discussed. But it seems as though you aversion is due to the fact that Mickey Mantle might get your liver before the loving, poor father of three kids. While I would agree that problems like this probably exist it seems like a pretty short sighted arguement against organ donation. Sort of like the screw them all because some of them are crooks argument that is made all of the time.
That's different than what I was referring to actually, although AFAIR what I was talking about had only been mentioned in passing, so it might have been unintentionally obscure.

My primary objection isn't who gets my liver, it's whether I'm finished with it before someone decides they need it.

Toss in the enormous amount of additional money that would presumably change hands if organ transplants became, say, 100x or even 10x more common than they are right now & I see one hell of a motive to start losing patients in order to save the next one (i.e. the donors become a resource to be exploited as much as possible).

[Vince]

I have heard (more than once, but not very often) that some people are afraid to be donors because they are afraid if they are a donor, in the case of something bad happening, a doctor would be less likely to attempt to save their lives, knowing that the chances are slim, and the demand for organs high. I think this is absolute hogwash, personally. I'm a donor.

[Kodos]

I have heard (more than once, but not very often) that some people are afraid to be donors because they are afraid if they are a donor, in the case of something bad happening, a doctor would be less likely to attempt to save their lives, knowing that the chances are slim, and the demand for organs high. I think this is absolute hogwash, personally. I'm a donor.

I agree. It's just a bit paranoid to believe that people will start harvesting your organs and let you die, IMO.

[Sharpieman]

That's different than what I was referring to actually, although AFAIR what I was talking about had only been mentioned in passing, so it might have been unintentionally obscure.

My primary objection isn't who gets my liver, it's whether I'm finished with it before someone decides they need it.

Toss in the enormous amount of additional money that would presumably change hands if organ transplants became, say, 100x or even 10x more common than they are right now & I see one hell of a motive to start losing patients in order to save the next one (i.e. the donors become a resource to be exploited as much as possible).
Although I'm pretty biased, this explanation is luducirs. First all doctors must take a hipocratic oath (hope I spelled that right) saying that they will do whatever they can to save a life. Second, if a doctor tried to do this, other people around him, his peers, nurses etc. would make him accountable for his actions. He would face criminal and civil charges. Third, even if a doctor isn't sincere, don't you think this doctor would try to prolong a life for recognition and acclaim? Doctors love being celebrities inside the realm of medicine. Fourth, a doctor can only bring up organ donation when a person is brain dead. Meaning, the person has no chance of living. Lastly, if this were true there would many people I know and me included who would be dead. Its this kind backward thinking that stops progress of science and decreases lifespans.

[Sharpieman]

dola, I'm not mad or anything that your not a donor, I respect your decision. What I don't respect is your reasoning, its not a competant answer. You can just say your uncomfortable with it and don't want to do it and I would be fine with that. Just don't give those kinds of answers.

[wig]

I'm pretty sure the doctors don't know you're a doner until after you're already dead.

[Sharpieman]

I'm pretty sure the doctors don't know you're a doner until after you're already dead.
Good point.

[cthomer5000]

wig's also pretty sure the Vikings are going to trade for Champ Bailey, and there aren't way more children up for adoption than there are families trying to adopt them.

so i wouldn't necessarily write it down just yet.

[wig]

wig's also pretty sure the Vikings are going to trade for Champ Bailey, and there aren't way more children up for adoption than there are families trying to adopt them.

so i wouldn't necessarily write it down just yet.

I'm 99% sure I said the Vikings would get Antione Winfield.

:)

[wig]

You should look it up

;)

[Craptacular]

chop me up and give me to anyone you'd like.

Same here. I would add that when they're done, burn me up and spread my ashes in a bunker at Whistling Straits.

[Taur]

Right now I hate the so called donor lists. Is it fair that a member of your family donated a liver last year and now you are in need of a liver and you are told you have to go on the list. Why can't family members be compinsated for organs other relatives have donated? Basically, why can't you determine where your organs go?

I think people should be rewarded for their good deeds. Or, at least kept track of. There are good people in this world and they should be at the head of every line. The donor list should be called the Donor Bank. People who make regular deposits should get special treatment when wanting to make a withdrawal.


Enter Cryonics.
Forget about bringing people back to life, freeze your family members today for spare parts you may need tomorrow. In the disease infested world of tomorrow Cryonics will keep you and your family members healthy with parts to spare..

[Vince]

Even though I believe it to be largely untrue...

There are some seriously unscrupulous people out there. Hippocratic oath be damned...I mean check out that guy that left a patient in the middle of a surgery to go cash his paycheck so he could pay off drug debts. Seriously though, I believe these cases to be in the extreme, and highly rare.

[stkelly52]

Toss in the enormous amount of additional money that would presumably change hands if organ transplants became, say, 100x or even 10x more common than they are right now & I see one hell of a motive to start losing patients in order to save the next one (i.e. the donors become a resource to be exploited as much as possible).
Actually, the exact opposite is true. Remember the cost of ANYTHING is based upon suply and demand. If there were suddenly 10x (not to mention 100x) the number of organs out there, the cost of organs would plumit. There would be far less cause for a dr. to off you so that he can harvest more organs because there would be plenty of other organ coming in.

[Alf]

There is no trout option. What is this poll ? ;)

On a more serious note , I voteds : I'm for it, it saves lives!

[sterlingice]

I have heard (more than once, but not very often) that some people are afraid to be donors because they are afraid if they are a donor, in the case of something bad happening, a doctor would be less likely to attempt to save their lives, knowing that the chances are slim, and the demand for organs high. I think this is absolute hogwash, personally. I'm a donor.
I would think that if organ donation was opt-out, the organs wouldn't be worth nearly as much because there would be a huge supply. But I guess stkelly52 already said that.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Although I'm pretty biased, this explanation is luducirs. First all doctors must take a hipocratic oath (hope I spelled that right) saying that they will do whatever they can to save a life. Second, if a doctor tried to do this, other people around him, his peers, nurses etc. would make him accountable for his actions. He would face criminal and civil charges. Third, even if a doctor isn't sincere, don't you think this doctor would try to prolong a life for recognition and acclaim? Doctors love being celebrities inside the realm of medicine. Fourth, a doctor can only bring up organ donation when a person is brain dead. Meaning, the person has no chance of living. Lastly, if this were true there would many people I know and me included who would be dead. Its this kind backward thinking that stops progress of science and decreases lifespans.
Let's see here.

1) Obviously you have a much higher opinion of the members of the medical profession than I do.
2) See point 1.
3) Let's see, "recognition & acclaim" vs $$$. Hmm ... see point 1.
4) Uh-huh, if you say so. Unfortunately, I know first hand that this isn't always the case in practice. I've had that conversation with a doctor (and his minions), in the context of "you should withdraw life support from this patient and btw, is he an organ donor?". Long story short, that was 8 years ago & my wife and son are having lunch with the very much alive & well patient-in-question as we speak.

Are you following me yet sharpieman? Are you fucking getting it yet?
What I find "luducirs" is how incredible naive you seem to be about this, you actually seem to believe there's an overwhelming percentage of doctors who are actually motivated by something other than the opportunity to make a buck. Or, in reality, a LOT of bucks. And I'm not talking about the notion of some "pay-per-part" schemes, screw that, it isn't the money motivation I'm talking about.

Here are some figures (now a few years old but they'll suffice), you do the math. http://files.veranet.net/1163/transplants2002.pdf

Simply take the revenue generated by the typical organ transplant -- the surgeons, the support staff, the hospital itself -- multiply that by a (hypothetical) ten-fold increase in the number of procedures performed and I believe any rational human being could find a figure large enough to find a possible motivation in there. And let's not forget the annual revenue produced by anti-rejection drugs either. Hell, people get killed for $10 or a pair of tennis shoes, so why wouldn't this be a motivation?

So you run along & donate all you want, knock yourself out. But don't to pass off some line of crap about how "it could never happen", that's so absurd that I can't fathom how you could even say it with a straight face. If you can manage that, you ought to consider a career with the IRS, saying "I'm from the IRS and I'm here to help" ought to be no problem at all.

[The Afoci]

I think it can be agreed that the truth is somewhere closer to Sharpieman than JonInMiddleGA. According to JonInMiddleGA a doctor is like a sleazy used car mechanic.

[JonInMiddleGA]

According to JonInMiddleGA a doctor is like a sleazy used car mechanic.
Don't insult car mechanics like that, I find them to be far more trustworthy & respectable.

(Totally off the subject, but while I'm thinking about it ... it's perfectly okay AFAIC to shorten my lengthy posting name to "Jon" or "MiddleGA" or even maybe "JMGA" or something more user-friendly. "MiddleGA" is my nick at about 95% of places I visit, it just wasn't available when I registered here originally, hence the awkward version you all are familiar with. And before anyone suggests "Asshole" or something along those lines, that would probably get really confusing around here ;) )

[Poli]

Don't insult car mechanics like that, I find them to be far more trustworthy & respectable.

(Totally off the subject, but while I'm thinking about it ... it's perfectly okay AFAIC to shorten my lengthy posting name to "Jon" or "MiddleGA" or even maybe "JMGA" or something more user-friendly. "MiddleGA" is my nick at about 95% of places I visit, it just wasn't available when I registered here originally, hence the awkward version you all are familiar with. And before anyone suggests "Asshole" or something along those lines, that would probably get really confusing around here ;) )

More like those lousy sailors.

[The Afoci]

Don't insult car mechanics like that, I find them to be far more trustworthy & respectable.

I was going to say used car salesman, but I do that so...

[wishbone]

I've considered giving up a kidney just to get a long vacation from work. At one point I was very close to looking into it.

[Deattribution]

Against it for me and my own.


Although I respect everyone's decision to be a donor -- even if they don't respect mine not to be.


Similiar problem as Jon - not necessarily the money issue but the fact that I want my organs as long as my body is functioning and has a need for them, once I'm *dead* (NOT medically diagnosed dead) - I don't care.

[MrBug708]

dola, I'm not mad or anything that your not a donor, I respect your decision. What I don't respect is your reasoning, its not a competant answer. You can just say your uncomfortable with it and don't want to do it and I would be fine with that. Just don't give those kinds of answers.

I'm not a donor, nor have I ever thought I would be a donor. i'm not against it and at this stage of my life, I have no interest in it.

However, I do have a good friend who had Luekemia and they couldn't find a bone marrow donor match. They went with stem cells. So go figure.

[Axxon]

Against it for me and my own.


Although I respect everyone's decision to be a donor -- even if they don't respect mine not to be.


Similiar problem as Jon - not necessarily the money issue but the fact that I want my organs as long as my body is functioning and has a need for them, once I'm *dead* (NOT medically diagnosed dead) - I don't care.

A question for those who feel this way, would you consider it fair if you make a choice not to be a donor you become ineligible for a transplant should you or your family ever need one? Seems fair to me. If you don't participate in the system shouldn't you forfeit the benefits it brings?

I guess I'm wondering where philosophy ends and selfishness begins. :)

[Abe Sargent]

I have been listed as an Organ Donor for a while now, so keep that in mind as I say this.

The default in America should not be taking people's organ's post-death unless they fill out a form not to. There are a lot of reason's not to switch the default. Firstly, government should try to make defaults in our society the least invasive unless a person opts otherwise, not vice versa. That way, someone ignorant of the law could not claim otherwise. Secondly, a family might be distraught by government taking a person's organs. By being listed as a donor, the family has a chance to adjust to that mindset long before it ever happens. If it were the other way around, however, the family of a lot of dying and recently deceased people might be more distraught. Thirdly, it just seems wrong that government can make a claim on my physical body, by default, unless I opt out.

Anyways, my opinion.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Many people claim that their religious beliefs conflict with transplanting organs, but in reality an overwhelming majority of religions accept and even endorse organ transplantation.


Ummm, so? I am a Baptist Minister, and yet I am a pacifist. Baptists generally do not preach or belief in pacifism, but I do.

You said that meany people claim that donation is against their religious beliefs. That has nothing to do with established orthodoxy, instead it is their personal belief.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

A question for those who feel this way, would you consider it fair if you make a choice not to be a donor you become ineligible for a transplant should you or your family ever need one? Seems fair to me. If you don't participate in the system shouldn't you forfeit the benefits it brings?

I guess I'm wondering where philosophy ends and selfishness begins. :)


That's a silly philosophy. What if I am a collector? I don't want to lose my first edition kidney but I'm willing to stand in line for a vintage spleen. I don't seel my old first edition Avengers, but I am still acquiring more.


-Anxiety


(The above post is entirely satirical in nature, but I didn't think that a single smile would suffice)

[Axxon]

That's a silly philosophy. What if I am a collector? I don't want to lose my first edition kidney but I'm willing to stand in line for a vintage spleen. I don't seel my old first edition Avengers, but I am still acquiring more.


-Anxiety


(The above post is entirely satirical in nature, but I didn't think that a single smile would suffice)

But I'll trade you a vintage spleen for two slightly used but mint condition corneas or one liver, preferably with onions.

[tucker342]

When I die, they can take whatever they want from my body to save another person's life.

[stkelly52]

Ummm, so? I am a Baptist Minister, and yet I am a pacifist. Baptists generally do not preach or belief in pacifism, but I do.

You said that meany people claim that donation is against their religious beliefs. That has nothing to do with established orthodoxy, instead it is their personal belief.


-Anxiety
Actually it does have a lot to do with religious beliefs, but only in certain religions. For example Jehovah's Witnesses do not permit transplants. Even getting a blood transfusion will mean that you are excomunicated.

[Tigercat]

Personally, I dont like that as a society we are so preoccupied with extending our lives. This isn't a religious thing for me, although it could be a spiritual one. I am only 23, but I don't know if given the choice that I would want a replacement organ if needed, if someone else wants/needs one I would be due, I would just let them have it. Life isn't about how long you live, but what you do with it, lifes finite anyway. Medical science should be about quality of life not quantity(but thats a whole nother can o worms..)

This is the reason I don't want to give my organs, because I don't believe in the medical goals they could support. Now if I knew my organs would be given to minors, I would check the back of my liscense in a second.

[MrBug708]

Actually it does have a lot to do with religious beliefs, but only in certain religions. For example Jehovah's Witnesses do not permit transplants. Even getting a blood transfusion will mean that you are excomunicated.


They take it straight from the OT where it says Do not eat of another's blood. (something along that lines, the JW don't come by too much these days)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Personally, I dont like that as a society we are so preoccupied with extending our lives. This isn't a religious thing for me, although it could be a spiritual one. I am only 23, but I don't know if given the choice that I would want a replacement organ if needed, if someone else wants/needs one I would be due, I would just let them have it. Life isn't about how long you live, but what you do with it, lifes finite anyway. Medical science should be about quality of life not quantity(but thats a whole nother can o worms..)

This is the reason I don't want to give my organs, because I don't believe in the medical goals they could support. Now if I knew my organs would be given to minors, I would check the back of my liscense in a second.

This seems very odd to me. So you would only be comfortable if your organs were donated to someone under the age of 18? So, if someone was say, 30 had a wife, two kids, and just got shit ass luck and had a diseased liver or heart, you would say "Hey, tough luck. You lived to 30, deal with it?" How very Logan' Run of you. Odd.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have been listed as an Organ Donor for a while now, so keep that in mind as I say this.

The default in America should not be taking people's organ's post-death unless they fill out a form not to. There are a lot of reason's not to switch the default. Firstly, government should try to make defaults in our society the least invasive unless a person opts otherwise, not vice versa. That way, someone ignorant of the law could not claim otherwise. Secondly, a family might be distraught by government taking a person's organs. By being listed as a donor, the family has a chance to adjust to that mindset long before it ever happens. If it were the other way around, however, the family of a lot of dying and recently deceased people might be more distraught. Thirdly, it just seems wrong that government can make a claim on my physical body, by default, unless I opt out.

Anyways, my opinion.


-Anxiety

I don't really see this as a personal rights vs. government issue. I simply see this as a "do the right thing"/help people in need issue. I feel that making it the default is the way to go. I think the vast majority of people who aren't donors just aren't because they are never forced to think about it. They get their driver's license and just want to get out of the DMV as soons as possible, so they don't bother, or whatever. Making it the default would make people more likely to address the issue and, if not, would at least make the consequences of not facing it a positive, as opposed to negative, one.

[Tigercat]

This seems very odd to me. So you would only be comfortable if your organs were donated to someone under the age of 18? So, if someone was say, 30 had a wife, two kids, and just got shit ass luck and had a diseased liver or heart, you would say "Hey, tough luck. You lived to 30, deal with it?" How very Logan' Run of you. Odd.

It isnt so much about picking who would recieve my organs, its just that I'm not sure I would like to donate my organs to a medical system that seems to sometimes go out of its way simply for the sake of elongating(sp?) life. If said mother came up to me before I was to die(or hell if i even wasnt going to die) I would give her my organs. But the fact is that we prolly wont be on a personal basis with whoever might get our organs. I just know I wouldn't want an organ transplate just to make my life that much longer, and besides giving it to a child, who I would like to at least get a chance at some sort of life, donating could against how I feel. I like to think I am a fairly giving person though, so its def. not a policy written in stone. I wouldn't be surprised if one day I said the heck with it, if anybody wants to use them they can have em.

But yea, just wanted to show that it isnt all about religion or feeling all weird about someone having your organs in their body.

[Sharpieman]

Let's see here.

1) Obviously you have a much higher opinion of the members of the medical profession than I do.
2) See point 1.
3) Let's see, "recognition & acclaim" vs $$$. Hmm ... see point 1.
4) Uh-huh, if you say so. Unfortunately, I know first hand that this isn't always the case in practice. I've had that conversation with a doctor (and his minions), in the context of "you should withdraw life support from this patient and btw, is he an organ donor?". Long story short, that was 8 years ago & my wife and son are having lunch with the very much alive & well patient-in-question as we speak.

Are you following me yet sharpieman? Are you fucking getting it yet?
What I find "luducirs" is how incredible naive you seem to be about this, you actually seem to believe there's an overwhelming percentage of doctors who are actually motivated by something other than the opportunity to make a buck. Or, in reality, a LOT of bucks. And I'm not talking about the notion of some "pay-per-part" schemes, screw that, it isn't the money motivation I'm talking about.

Here are some figures (now a few years old but they'll suffice), you do the math. http://files.veranet.net/1163/transplants2002.pdf

Simply take the revenue generated by the typical organ transplant -- the surgeons, the support staff, the hospital itself -- multiply that by a (hypothetical) ten-fold increase in the number of procedures performed and I believe any rational human being could find a figure large enough to find a possible motivation in there. And let's not forget the annual revenue produced by anti-rejection drugs either. Hell, people get killed for $10 or a pair of tennis shoes, so why wouldn't this be a motivation?

So you run along & donate all you want, knock yourself out. But don't to pass off some line of crap about how "it could never happen", that's so absurd that I can't fathom how you could even say it with a straight face. If you can manage that, you ought to consider a career with the IRS, saying "I'm from the IRS and I'm here to help" ought to be no problem at all.
Your low opinion of doctors and the medical profession is sad. If you think that way, you might as well not go to a doctor at all for any illness. Second of all, you must have not read what I wrote, because doctors are not alone when there with patients, there is numerous nurses and doctors in the same room that hold these doctors accountable for any of their actions. Furthermore, they must document their actions in lengthy reports that are fully scrutinized in many situations. By the way, if doctors were JUST in it for the money, they wouldn't want to prolong my life, because by your logic a doctor would get more money if he/she would just let me die and give all my organs to someone else. Also that acclaim and recognition accompanies many talks and lectures and even books that help doctors receive so much more wealth than one simple organ transplant. I'm not naive that’s the point. You obviously never spend significant times with doctors and you don't know what the hell their thinking. Yes, its true an overwhelming majority of doctors are honest and care about people. How is that naive? Your logic is bullshit.