FBCB: I need defensive help!!!

[kingnebwsu]

Okay, so I'm about to flip out. The last several years my team can't seem to play bloody defense. I don't know what to do.

The last 3 seasons I've allowed:
78.4 (this season)
75.6
80.2

My offense has been amazing over the last 3 years:
79.5 (this season)
81.0
82.8

My record over these three seasons is only .500. My teams the last two years have been okay, but this year's team started 9-3 and finished 18-13 and lost in the first round of the NIT.

My current settings are:

Pace 9, Motion 3 (wonder if the pace is tiring the guys out?)
2-3 Zone 100%
4 on press, trap, and double-teaming

My defensive roster is:


Wright State Raiders Player Defense Attributes

Name Pos Ht Wt PsD PrD Stl Blk Reb PFs Qkn Str Jmp Sta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edmund Quevedo C 6'11" 277 63 7 15 39 69 70 20 75 47 66
Tony Ramirez C 6'11" 247 59 34 26 19 83 23 25 70 44 67
Colby Quick SF 6' 7" 245 53 30 61 37 43 65 60 68 54 68
Roger Short SG 6' 4" 200 16 71 27 47 20 40 86 48 95 52
Mark Snider PG 6' 5" 187 33 77 10 13 27 49 75 35 55 85
Roger Wilke PF 6' 8" 216 51 42 49 42 69 31 30 81 32 81
Max Kobel PG 6' 1" 185 33 72 37 17 25 58 85 37 74 74
Neal Rodriguez SG 6' 2" 185 6 26 64 17 16 36 73 42 100 52
Clark Danford PF 6' 9" 268 68 8 30 13 62 89 24 73 43 65
Jerome Bopp SF 6' 9" 237 14 27 87 20 69 68 50 64 53 65
Clayton Rippy SG 6' 3" 206 22 6 33 13 29 79 70 42 95 64
Warren Holman PF 6'10" 232 33 45 16 35 44 50 36 91 47 81
Don Elston PF 6'11" 213 43 34 6 22 46 52 28 64 32 47
Alexis Houk SF 6' 8" 215 53 28 59 33 41 31 70 62 41 100
Sterling Bouton PG 6' 0" 172 31 58 51 18 26 25 85 27 67 65



The top 5 are my starters and all of them (except Quevedo) will be back next year. I'm looking for some advice on what defense I should run next year, since the starting 5 will be essentially the same (except Danford will probably start at the 5-spot instead of Quevedo).

I wonder if I should tone down my pace. I think that may be tiring the guys out. But I have a decent rotation going, so I don't know what the problem is. Also, my team seems to have a LOT of fouls. This year was slightly better, but we averaged 20.7 fouls per game (#297 in nation). Also our points allowed was ranked #319. If we could have played some frickin' defense, we would have made the Sweet Sixteen. Sigh.

I still have a solid chance this coming year to make some special things happen (I've only played in the second weekend of the dance once in school history), so I'm looking for some defensive advice before then.

As a follow-up/side note, does a higher pace lead to (many) more turnovers?

Thanks in advance for the tips.

[Balldog]

Your post defense is weak, are you double-teaming inside? Run a zone defense?

Usually when I have a team like this my training camp focus will be defense, 10s for PsD for PF and C, 7s in PsD and PrD for SF, and 10s in PrD for PG and SG. When I started to do this I noticed some more success. We won 20+ games for 6 years in a row, before I did this we were struggling to get to 15 for about 8 in a row.

[Balldog]

Your post defense is weak, are you double-teaming inside? Run a zone defense?

Usually when I have a team like this my training camp focus will be defense, 10s for PsD for PF and C, 7s in PsD and PrD for SF, and 10s in PrD for PG and SG. When I started to do this I noticed some more success. We won 20+ games for 6 years in a row, before I did this we were struggling to get to 15 for about 8 in a row.

My bad didn't see your settings.

I would probably slow down the pace a little bit.

[SirFozzie]

None of your guys really is great at defense right now, so I would try to make up for pure talent with effort. Bump up the level of trapping and pressing Or you could run a defense designed to be a team based defense, such as a 2-3 or 3-2 zone.

The faster your guys go, the more likely they will make turnovers, and just as important, the more CHANCES (Posessions) that they will have to turn over the ball.

[kingnebwsu]

Wow, my defense isn't that good? I always thought being a 50-60 rated defender would be at least decent when using my zone defense. Shows what I know :)

I think I will definitely tone down the tempo of the game. In a limited run when I did cut down my tempo from 9 to 6, my offense blew goats and scored like 55 points (that trial lasted one game vs a decent team). I need to have more patience.

The AD is starting to be a jerkface, just like WSU's real AD :) Since I had a miracle 2nd-place run 3 years ago, he expects me to be in the sweet 16. Will his expectations ever go lower? They've been Sweet 16 every year since then, and I have yet to even make the tourney.

[rexallllsc]

If you want to improve the D, pace 3 or 4. Zone.

Only scoring 55 points and using the clock isn't necessarily bad, as long as the other team is scoring low, too. It will prob. cut down turnovers, at least. There are other schools of though, too...the one where you forget D and just outscore the opponent (Loyola Marymount). If you're scoring high, I wouldn't worry about giving up a lot. In fact, your best D may be a good O.

[Eaglesfan27]

Also, try to get a premiere shot blocker. I always try to get at least one center with a 90 or higher blocking and a decent post defense, even if he can't do much else (of course it is great if you get one who can do a lot more then just that.) I've found that the disruption he will cause on the inside usually greatly helps my defense. I can usually find a one or two star center who will meet these criteria and come to my small school if I can't get a better player who also is a great shot blocker.

[kingnebwsu]

If you want to improve the D, pace 3 or 4. Zone.

Only scoring 55 points and using the clock isn't necessarily bad, as long as the other team is scoring low, too. It will prob. cut down turnovers, at least. There are other schools of though, too...the one where you forget D and just outscore the opponent (Loyola Marymount). If you're scoring high, I wouldn't worry about giving up a lot. In fact, your best D may be a good O.


I've tried that gameplan, but my great offenses generally don't play well enough to outscore the opponent most of the time. Historically I noticed that my D needs to play well with my great O to win (duh ;)). I will drop the pace to 5 for the start of my new season and I'm going to try a 3-2 zone. We'll see if that helps.

I'm taking the advice on the defense thing, because I think I'll flip out if I have another crappy defensive year.

So do your defensive trainings look like...
(PSD/PRD)
C 10/0
PF 10/1
SF 7/5 (7/7, my guys were too stupid for this)
SG 1/10
PG 1/10

Should I even bother teaching post D to guards and perimeter D to big men? Thanks again for the tips. I won't run training camps til later tonight.

[TargetPractice6]

Yeah, pace has a lot to do with it. Last season I set my team's pace to 10. My opponents scored 70+ points a game, but my team scored 90+ points a game.

[Balldog]

Should I even bother teaching post D to guards and perimeter D to big men? Thanks again for the tips. I won't run training camps til later tonight.

I generally don't.

[TargetPractice6]

I do if one of by post players has high potential in steals or if a guard has high potential in blocks.

[IMetTrentGreen]

1-3-1 trap pwns you

dont press, double team at your discretion. has worked wonders for me

also, your defense stick, ratings wise. recruit with prd and psd in mind. good defense and up-tmepo offense (7ish) offense will create enough points to win

[IMetTrentGreen]

lowering pace won't help the defense any less than it hurts the offense. total points is meaningless out of context. if you have pace at 10 and are limiting people to 75 points, thats pretty good in my experience

i've also found that high pace teams are better at getting more out of lesser scorers

[rexallllsc]

Should I even bother teaching post D to guards and perimeter D to big men?


I wouldn't. Even if they were great at it, they wouldn't use it often enough.

[rexallllsc]

lowering pace won't help the defense any less than it hurts the offense. total points is meaningless out of context. if you have pace at 10 and are limiting people to 75 points, thats pretty good in my experience

i've also found that high pace teams are better at getting more out of lesser scorers

High pace can lead to more t/o, though. Low pace, in theory, can maximize offensive trips, and keep your best players in longer.

[C-Bailey]

Can someone help me understand defensive strategies better and how they work?

Double Team Inside/Outside - I take this to mean that if set real high that my team will double a good inside or outside scorer as much as possible. Am i wrong? I just had a game where the other teams Center came in averaging 24 ppg so my settings were : Man defense (my starting C is actually best defender with a 7 rating, scale 1-10) Press - 10, and Double Inside -10. The guy went 11-16 from the field and 7-9 from the line to total 29 points on the game. That doesn't seem right to me, but again, maybe i'm misunderstanding how to use the double team tactic and how it works.

2. 2-1-2 zone - what type of team is this best used againsta and what type of personnel should i have? 1-3-1? 3-2 ?

[kingnebwsu]

I did your defensive suggestions for training camp. My post D improved somewhat but my perimeter D improved HUGELY!!! 13 points for both my PG&SG (who are now 3rd year sophomores). Out of curiousity I quick-simmed my season to see how my team would do. Here's the results...


Wright State Raiders 2016 Season Info

Current Performance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Prestige: 69 Record Vs 1-50: 3-5
Season Record: 16-14 Record Vs 51-100: 2-5
Conference Record: 8-10 Record Vs 101-200: 6-3
Home Record: 9-5 Record Vs 200+: 5-1
Current Poll Rank: NR Current RPI Rank: 84

Stat Rankings:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Points: 75.1 National Rank: 71 Conference Rank: 5
Points Allowed: 74.0 National Rank: 254 Conference Rank: 6
Rebounds: 34.1 National Rank: 300 Conference Rank: 10
Assists: 17.2 National Rank: 33 Conference Rank: 3
Steals: 7.9 National Rank: 71 Conference Rank: 4
Blocks: 1.4 National Rank: 306 Conference Rank: 9
Turnovers: 15.2 National Rank: 208 Conference Rank: 7
Fouls: 21.3 National Rank: 313 Conference Rank: 10
FG%: .460 National Rank: 18 Conference Rank: 3
FT%: .735 National Rank: 22 Conference Rank: 3
3P%: .380 National Rank: 34 Conference Rank: 3



Team started out 13-4, then closed the season out 3-10 and got invited as the last team into the NIT. (Sigh). I dunno what to do when I play this season for real. I think my team is pretty decent, but results don't lie. Why are my fouls so stinkin' high? I have two-three guys who struggle with fouls, but the rest are pretty good. My TO's are also way high. My rebounds and points allowed is also craptacular. I'm trying to learn this game still, so I dunno what to do. Here's my roster...



Wright State Raiders Player Defense Attributes

Name Pos Ht Wt PsD PrD Stl Blk Reb PFs Qkn Str Jmp Sta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Ramirez C 6'11" 249 59 36 27 20 85 23 27 70 44 73
Clark Danford PF 6' 9" 268 70 9 31 14 63 89 25 77 44 76
Colby Quick SF 6' 7" 246 58 31 62 42 46 65 61 70 54 75
Roger Short SG 6' 6" 200 17 84 30 49 22 40 87 50 96 58
Mark Snider PG 6' 5" 188 35 90 11 14 29 49 75 37 56 92
Neal Rodriguez SG 6' 2" 185 6 29 73 18 17 36 75 44 100 59
Max Kobel PG 6' 1" 187 34 81 43 18 27 58 86 38 74 83
Don Elston PF 7' 0" 221 49 35 7 25 52 52 29 68 33 57
Sterling Bouton PG 6' 0" 173 33 69 57 19 27 25 86 28 68 70
Alexis Houk SF 6' 8" 217 59 30 66 37 46 31 70 64 41 100
Clayton Rippy SG 6' 3" 207 23 6 36 14 31 79 71 45 96 72
Paul Gray C 6'11" 282 58 19 28 47 59 60 25 84 36 23
Reto Wittmann PF 6' 8" 227 33 18 27 23 20 62 31 63 40 53
Hyman King C 6'10" 235 36 26 28 28 47 36 23 85 39 100
Frank Paine C 6'10" 260 50 32 34 46 48 44 19 85 39 70





Wright State Raiders Player Offense Attributes

Name Pos Ht Wt Ins Jps 3ps Hnd Pas Reb Qkn Str Jmp Sta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Ramirez C 6'11" 249 82 56 0 9 34 69 27 70 44 73
Clark Danford PF 6' 9" 268 49 54 31 56 49 98 25 77 44 76
Colby Quick SF 6' 7" 246 62 48 7 16 30 21 61 70 54 75
Roger Short SG 6' 6" 200 63 52 43 45 39 8 87 50 96 58
Mark Snider PG 6' 5" 188 51 46 61 61 63 5 75 37 56 92
Neal Rodriguez SG 6' 2" 185 27 79 95 53 5 45 75 44 100 59
Max Kobel PG 6' 1" 187 51 38 69 50 35 9 86 38 74 83
Don Elston PF 7' 0" 221 64 22 29 26 23 74 29 68 33 57
Sterling Bouton PG 6' 0" 173 26 36 44 41 55 33 86 28 68 70
Alexis Houk SF 6' 8" 217 55 29 45 8 19 49 70 64 41 100
Clayton Rippy SG 6' 3" 207 23 33 72 50 14 37 71 45 96 72
Paul Gray C 6'11" 282 26 16 32 21 29 34 25 84 36 23
Reto Wittmann PF 6' 8" 227 25 20 19 22 23 52 31 63 40 53
Hyman King C 6'10" 235 47 54 5 32 17 53 23 85 39 100
Frank Paine C 6'10" 260 23 37 0 55 22 40 19 85 39 70



These are their stats pre-season and post-training camp. I'm going to sleep, because my frustration is overwhelming. On paper, this team seems better than past 20-win teams I've had (though granted I'm now in a prestige 4 conference instead of a prestige 3 one). But it still seems like I'm sucking bigtime. Esp. since both my starting guards are top-100 recruits. Snider was on the all-country freshmen team! He kicked ass last year.

(Shrug) anymore input is welcome as always :)

[IMetTrentGreen]

i have not found that lowering pace lowers turnovers. you pass more in a half court set, which cancels out anything running will bring

turnovers have much more to do with handling and passing than pace

[Balldog]

It looks like you may be getting burnt on the boards? Have you looked at your opponents offensive rebounds?

If a player does not have at least a C potentional for defense I don't recruit him. I do the same for rebounding with PF and C.